MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insane!

Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

I recently commented that plants do better at elevated GR temps if using co2 on one of your journals. And in fact, temperature increase is important for those using co2 boost products. The article below confirms what I have researched from many sources and confirms my statement. I promised I would post it for you so here it is. I hope you enjoy this read, it's relatively short and to the point and appears to be a work in progress.

This article is from San Jose State University

Author: Thayer Watkins

The direct effects of increased carbon dioxide (CO2) on plant growth refers to the change in plant grow with the levels of temperature, precipitation, evaporation and growing season at their present values. The indirect effects include the results of any changes in the other variables which affect plant growth that come as a result of the effect of increased CO2 on global climate.

Photosynthesis and the C3/C4 Plant Classification


Life is base upon chemical reactions; many, many chemical reactions; but the chains of chemical reactions known as photosynthesis are the basis in one way or another of all life. Photosynthesis involves the input of carbon dioxide and water with radiant energy and the presence of a catalyst called chlorophyll. The outputs are carbohydrates and oxygen. The formal statement of the process is:
6CO2 + 6H2O + ν → C6H12O6 + 6O2
where ν represents photons of radiation.

The catalyst for the reaction, chlorophyll, is an organo-metallic compound containing magnesium. It is one of the three organo-metallic compounds which are the basis for life. The other two are the vital elements of the blood of mammals, hemoglobin, and of crustaceans, hemocyanin. Just as chlorophyll contains magnesium, hemoglobin contains iron and hemocyanin contains copper.

The process of photosynthesis is very complex and chemists could find little about the processes until radioactive isotopes became available. First, the radioactive isotope of oxygen, 18O, was used to create water, H2O. When plants were exposed to this radioactive water the radioactivity showed up in the oxygen exhaled from the plants. This showed that the oxygen created by plants comes from the water it uses rather than from the CO2. The oxygen in the CO2 gets incorporated in the carbohydrates created by the plants.
Second, a radioactive isotope of carbon, 14C, was used to create carbon dioxide. Plants were exposed to this radioactive CO2 for a few seconds and then the leaf material was chemically analyzed. In most plants the radioactive carbon showed in a compound called phosphoglyceric acid (PGA). The molecule of this compound contains three carbon atoms and one atom of phosphorus:

H H H
| | |
O- C - C - C -H
|| | |
O O O-P-O
| |
H O-H

Most plants, including trees and flowering plants, produce PGA as the first step in photosynthesis. A few plant species, including tropical grasses such as sugar cane and corn (maize), produce malic acid or aspartic acid as the first step. The molecules of these compounds contain four carbon atoms and one nitrogen atom. The aspartic acid molecule is:
H H
| |
H-O-O-C-C-O-O-H
| |
H N-H
|
H

Because the initial products of photosynthesis for plants in this category involve compounds containing four carbon atoms this class is called C4. The other category of plants produces PGA which contains three carbon atoms so it is called C3. This classification is important because the responses of the two categories of plants to increased CO2 is different.

The Direct Effect of an Increase in CO2

Over the years there have been numerous laboratory experiments which conclude that increases levels of CO2 result in increased plant growth no matter how that plant growth is quantified. Sylvan Wittwer in Food, Climate and Carbon Dioxide tabulates the results. He observes
The effects of an enriched CO2 atmosphere on crop productivity, in large measure, as positive, leaving little doubt as the benefits for global food security .... Now, after more than a century, and with the confirmation of thousands of scientific reports, CO2 gives the most remarkable response of all nutrients in plant bulk, is usually in short supply, and is nearly always limiting for photosynthesis ... The rising level of atmospheric CO2 is a universally free premium, gaining in magnitude with time, on which we can all reckon for the foreseeable future. The quantification of the enhanced growth due to higher levels of CO2 has been given by H. Poorter in an article in the journal Vegetation:
Increased Growth
Resulting from a
100 Percent Increase
in the Level of CO2
Plant
Type Proportional
Increase
C3 41%
C4 22%

About 95 percent of all plants on Earth are of type C3. C4 plants constitute only 1 percent but the C4 crops of sugar cane, corn, sorghum and millet are economically significant. The other 4 percent of plants are not economically significant. They include desert plants such as cactus.

The Effect of Temperature on Plant Response to Higher Levels of CO2


Photosynthesis consists of chemical reactions. Chemical reactions procede at a higher rate at higher temperatures. The rule of thumb is that there is a doubling of the reaction rate for every 10°F rise in temperature. Plants grow faster at a higher temperature providing they have adequate levels of CO2, water, sunlight and plant nutrients. The C4 plants have a great response rate for a higher temperature than does the C3 plants.

A higher temperature without adequate level of the necessary ingredients for growth might produce no response or even damage. Sylvan Wittwer, quoted above, states that under most circumstances the availability of CO2 is the factor which limits growth. Thus with a higher level of CO2 in the air plants can grow faster with a higher temperature.

Plants transpire water vapor to keep an even temperature. There are tiny holes on the underside of plant leaves, called somata, which are the openings through which the plant absorbs CO2. With higher level of CO2 concentration in the air the somata do not have to be open as wide. The narrower opening means that less water is transpired and thus less water is required by the plants. In other words, higher levels of CO2 increase the efficiency of water use by plants. This was confirmed in experiments reported by K.E. Idso and S.B. Idso. They found that enhanced CO2 increased growth by 31 percent in plants with adequate moisture but it increase growth by 62 percent for plants in moisture-stressed condition. In effect, enhanced CO2 by reducing water loss created the same effect as providing more water. Thus the effect in moisture-stressed plants was the effects of enhanced CO2 plus the effect of increased water.

The effect of increased CO2 in narrowing the stomata of plants has the additional benefit that a lesser amount of pollutants in the air will make it through the narrower openings. Thus enhanced CO2 has the effect of protecting plants against damage from air pollutants such as ozone or sulfur dioxide.

The effect of enhanced CO2 is even greater for plants grown under low light conditions. The enhance growth is greater than 100 percent for a 100 percent increase in CO2. This compares to less than 50 percent for plants grown in normal light conditions.

The evidence that clinches the argument is that some greenhouse owner artificially elevate the CO2 level to triple what the level in the atmosphere is.
(To be continued.)
________________________________________
Sources:

Sylvan H. Wittwer, "Flower power: rising carbon dioxide is great for plants", Policy Review (Fall 1992), pp. 4-10.

H. Poorter, "Interspecific variation in the growth response to an elevated and ambient CO2 concentration," Vegetation (1993), pp. 77-97.

Sylvan H. Wittwer, Food, Climate and Carbon Dioxide, CRC Press, Boca Raton, Fla., 1995.

Patrick J. Michaels and Robert C. Balling, Jr., The Satanic Gases: Clearing the Air about Global Warming, Cato Institute, Washington, D.C., 2000.

Fred Pearce, "Global green belt," New Scientist, (September 15, 2001), p.15.

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

MacG, Sorry to hear about the PM, Brother!

It sounds like you have a solid plan in place to deal with it.

Just a couple more tips on PM....

The organicide is probably your best bet, along with making sure you have good air ventillation & circulation at ALL times. I've also seen people spray with plain water PH'd at 10, or a DILUTED H2O2 solution.

I've read that you should add a drop or two of liquid dish soap (try to use a plain soap with no added scents/softeners, etc.) to help the mixture adhere to the plant, and also add a teaspoon of vegetable/olive/sunflower oil (shake the whole mixture together) and the oil will help contain the spores.

I'm sure you've done plenty of research by now, but here's some good info on PM:

by Arzeena Hamir


Powdery mildew is a common disease on many types of plants. In fact, it is one of the oldest plant diseases on record - Theophrastis wrote of powdery mildew on roses in 300 B.C. Although different species of fungi cause the disease on different plants (Erysiphe infects vegetable crops and flowers; Podosphaera species infects apples and stone fruits; Sphaerotheca species infects berries, roses, some vegetable crops, and stone fruits; and Uncinula necator infects grapes), the infections are all characterized by a powdery white to gray fungal growth on leaves, stems and heads.

Contary to popular belief, powdery mildew generally does not require free water to establish and grow. Infection can actually occur on dry leaves. Warm temperatures and shady conditions encourage the fungus to grow and spread. However, the spores and mycelium are sensitive to extreme heat and direct sunlight.

Symptoms

Powdery mildew usually shows up on leaf and stem surfaces and does not directly affect most vegetable fruits. However, it can affect the flavor of melons and squash and reduce their yield. Woody species such as grapes, fruit trees, roses, crape myrtle, and sycamore are more seriously affected; new growth is often distorted. The young fruit of apples and grapes can also develop rough skin due to powdery mildew.

Life Cycle

All species of powdery mildew fungi require living plant tissue to grow. On perennials, they survive on buds and stem tissue. Certain weeds will also act as hosts through the winter. The optimum temperature for infection is between 68 to 77 degrees F and relative humidity between 40 to 100% is sufficient for the spores to germinate. Low, diffuse light also seems to favor powdery mildew development.

The mildew can spread rapidly since the disease cycle can be completed in as little as 72 hours. However, it commonly takes 7-10 days from the time of infection to the development of symptoms and secondary spore production.

Management

In most cases, good cultural practices will adequately control powdery mildew:

Select powdery mildew resistant varieties. This is particularly true of roses. For lawns, shade tolerant grasses such as creeping red fescue can be planted.
Plant in full sunlight in a well-drained area.

Do not crowd plants. Air flow and ventilation will discourage mildew growth.
Powdery mildew thrives where high rates of nitrogen have been used. High nitrogen promotes tender leaf formation, causing dense stands that are more susceptible to infections. Adequately fertilize but avoid stimulating succulent growth. Organic fertilizers or slow-release formulations of lawn fertilizers are good choices.

Prune infected plants to get rid of infected parts and increase airflow. If the infestations are severe, remove and destroy the plants that are infected.

Disinfect your pruning tool in a bleach solution of one part household bleach to four parts water after each cut.

Watering plants in the morning gives the plants the rest of the day to dry off, discouraging establishment of diseases, including powdery mildew.
Organic Sprays

Sulfur is highly effective against powdery mildew if used in a protectant program with a minimum of 7 to 14 days between applications. Garlic naturally contains high levels of sulfur and a few cloves crushed in water can be used to make a homemade spray. Apply a sulfur-based fungicide at first evidence of mildew and repeat applications as necessary. Proper timing of fungicide applications is critical to successful control so make sure to begin at the first sign of the disease.

However, sulfur can be damaging to some squash and melon varieties. Another option is to spray once a week with a solution of baking soda. Baking soda increases the surface pH of the leaf making it unsuitable for the growth of powdery mildew spores. Be sure to spray the undersides of leaves as well as the upper surfaces when using any of these sprays.

Here's a recipe to make your own spray:

1 teaspoon baking soda
1 quart water
A few drops of liquid soap

Before treating your plants, test the spray on a few leaves to make sure they are not too sensitive.

About the Author Arzeena is an agronomist and gardenwriter for Organic Living Newsletter.

:goodluck: on the eradication!!!
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Fungus Amongus Update!

I just got done removing the affected leaves (at least the ones I could readily id) and spraying with Organacide. I added an additional fan to the room. Thirdly, I thinned the girls near the base where the undergrowth was real thick. This is where most of the bad stuff was growing. I probably trimmed enough to cause some stress to the plants. My hope is that despite this setback they resume normal growth soon.

Here's a few pics:

002666.JPG


Here's the additional fan. There's now a total of four. One 12" Vortex, One 16" Oscillation, and 2 6" fans hung on the walls.
007496.JPG
008460.JPG
009425.JPG


The A/C is running almost constantly with the hot streak were having. Today will be over 100 deg, ugh!!! Otherwise they look healthy and happy despite my errors!
005567.JPG
010397.JPG


Now I'm heading to the outdoor grow and will post an update on those soon. Happy Independence day!!!

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Sorry to hear about the PM Macgyverup! It does sound like you have a pretty good battle plan! I am sending positive vibes on the execution part.

Thanks for that Dutch! I have implemented my plan and hope to see results soon. Keep those great vibes coming bro!!! :thankyou:

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

MacG, Sorry to hear about the PM, Brother!

It sounds like you have a solid plan in place to deal with it.

Just a couple more tips on PM....

The organicide is probably your best bet, along with making sure you have good air ventillation & circulation at ALL times. I've also seen people spray with plain water PH'd at 10, or a DILUTED H2O2 solution.

I've read that you should add a drop or two of liquid dish soap (try to use a plain soap with no added scents/softeners, etc.) to help the mixture adhere to the plant, and also add a teaspoon of vegetable/olive/sunflower oil (shake the whole mixture together) and the oil will help contain the spores.

I'm sure you've done plenty of research by now, but here's some good info on PM:



:goodluck: on the eradication!!!

Hey Mr. Krip! :thankyou: for the excellent info. As usual you've been a great help. As you can see by my update I have just completed the first attempt at getting the PM removed before I saw your post. I'll implement some of these other suggestions in a few day's after seeing the affects of this first attempt. Really like the article. Thanks again!

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Outdoor Update!

Just a few shots of the outdoor grow. All is looking good. After re-arranging the yard I'm still only getting about 5 hrs of direct sunlight, with another 2-3 hrs of filtered sunlight. I think this is OK but not optimal. Their really shooting up (reaching for the sun?). The WW are just under 4 ft, but I'm not convinced these plants are WW as claimed still. We'll see... :hmmmm: The Hog is just over 2 ft (three in the middle front row), and the dominant Indica mystery plant is looking awesome. Can't wait to see how that turns out.

001626.JPG


The dominant Indica mystery plant is on the right of the front row.
002668.JPG


The privacy screen blocks out some of the light but I think the filtered light is still helpful. They all look HAPPY! "Mater" update next! :)
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Sorry to hear about your PM. Once there, it never really goes away in my experience. I doubt the environment you grow in is hermetically sealed, so spores will always get in. Best thing to do is to keep an environment that is not favorable to PM growth and most importantly, to have a strain that is naturally resistant.

The Ogre strain I had last was susceptible and no matter what was done, it would get it. Even if the RH was 8%, it would still get it! All I could do was beat it back. Did not find removing leaves to be very effective though it may help with a strain that is normally resistant but got inundated with spores after being in a bad environment for awhile (like you had).

I liked using just water with some pH up in it to get it to around 9. Other products may be able to last longer in between sprays, but nothing else is cheaper or more readily available (at least to hydro growers).

Once the grow is complete then nuke the room with bleach products. Just know you cannot eliminate things like spores without herculean effort in room design and clean room standards.

:goodluck:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Wow, glad i unlocked the couch & chased the CO2 post back here...excellent info, thx for taking the time and expending the effort to share it w/ us
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Hey Macgyverup ! :)

Man sorry that pm got you.....you have enough help for an army here.

What a response from every one! great info too........begone PM! :yummy:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Wow, your plants are looking great. Bummer about the fungi. Seems like you knew how to handle it though.
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Sorry to hear about your PM. Once there, it never really goes away in my experience. I doubt the environment you grow in is hermetically sealed, so spores will always get in. Best thing to do is to keep an environment that is not favorable to PM growth and most importantly, to have a strain that is naturally resistant.

The Ogre strain I had last was susceptible and no matter what was done, it would get it. Even if the RH was 8%, it would still get it! All I could do was beat it back. Did not find removing leaves to be very effective though it may help with a strain that is normally resistant but got inundated with spores after being in a bad environment for awhile (like you had).

I liked using just water with some pH up in it to get it to around 9. Other products may be able to last longer in between sprays, but nothing else is cheaper or more readily available (at least to hydro growers).

Once the grow is complete then nuke the room with bleach products. Just know you cannot eliminate things like spores without herculean effort in room design and clean room standards.

:goodluck:

Hey Munki! Thanks for stopping by and the info! Yup, gonna be a long uphill battle. It's kind of a catch 22 once it starts. Need to spray the plants at the same time fight the % rh and it's almost impossible to clean out all the spores while still growing in there. All it will take is a few and the right conditions and the PM comes roaring back, ugh! I have never grown Afgoo and it's funny you mentioned the resistant strains because when I was setting them up in the GR I had a thought, not sure why, that these plants would be susceptible to PM. Then , of course, I proceeded to create the best possible conditions for it. Go figure! :)


:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Wow, glad i unlocked the couch & chased the CO2 post back here...excellent info, thx for taking the time and expending the effort to share it w/ us

:welcome: Jamethe3! Glad you found the article and didn't get hurt getting here. :) Come on back and pull up that couch! Welcome to :420: the place with the best grow info on the net and the most helpful growers you'll find anywhere. As you can see just on my journal alone, what great help and advice you get here.

Will you be growing and starting your own journal? If you do let me know and I'll drag my couch over there. :)

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Hey Macgyverup ! :)

Man sorry that pm got you.....you have enough help for an army here.

What a response from every one! great info too........begone PM! :yummy:

Welcome back, OMM! Yup, gotta love this site. Post an issue on a journal and help is on the way. But not just any help, but real solid help that comes from experience! The growers here are just on it. Way cool!!!

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Wow, your plants are looking great. Bummer about the fungi. Seems like you knew how to handle it though.

Hey there MM! The PM is a pain but I think I can keep it in check with all the great info I received. Nice to have all this support. Feels like your not alone with all the great growers who regularly post on :420:!

Thanks for stopping by!

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Thx for the warm welcome, I have my second bag seed 'bout half way done. Spent yesterday chasing frick'in gnats & peroxiding larvae. But, think i've atleast got it down to where I actually will stop lurking & come into light of jah where proper humbling might be benefecial. Might just get a camera the next paycheck or so I actually can do a grow and contribute than entertainment for others at my amusing efforts and folly. Can't wait for football season so i can sit back down on the couch.

Cheers,
John
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

Thx for the warm welcome, I have my second bag seed 'bout half way done. Spent yesterday chasing frick'in gnats & peroxiding larvae. But, think i've atleast got it down to where I actually will stop lurking & come into light of jah where proper humbling might be benefecial. Might just get a camera the next paycheck or so I actually can do a grow and contribute than entertainment for others at my amusing efforts and folly. Can't wait for football season so i can sit back down on the couch.

Cheers,
John

Hey Jamesthe3! Gnats... I hate those little fuggers. Had a problem with them on the Hog grow. Try some mosquito dunks or bits. Kills the larvae and is a natural biological product. I also used the little yellow sticky cards and place them on top of the soil of the containers. They are really persistent little bugs!

Yup, pics really do help. Gives all the growers here a visual on any problems that may pop up. But if you have any questions before you get the camera, with a good description, you'll get help for sure. Also, you could start your journal and add the pics when you get your camera. Here's a link to get your journal started. How to Make a Grow Journal It really helps put info in a useable format and makes it easier for other growers to see what you grow situation is like.

Look forward to that and keep me posted.

Best of luck to you and your grow and Happy Independence day!

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

PM Update. Fungus Amongus takes a hit! :)

7/4 Better than 24hrs into the battle; MacG Scores one, the PM hastens back to it's corner of the ring (no doubt looking for it's next chance to attack) and the crowd roars! :party:

Seriously I checked on the girls and all is well so far. I inspected them all and found no sign of PM anywhere. I know it's lurking and waiting to jump back in the fight, but for now I'm one up! :)

:peacetwo:
 
Re: MacG's Afgooey - White Widow - Hog - Mystery Plants - In/Outdoor Soil Grow - Insa

And on this day!!! your ladies celebrate PM Independence Day!!! glad to hear all the positive vibes helped out!!!

:peacetwo:
 
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