Lexort's Kaneh Bosm CFL Garden

[b.real]

they look good to me. I see a little bit of nitrogen clawing (stress) on the leaves, but in general they look healthy. remember to feed lightly and follow a feeding schedule like water, feed, water, feed.

 

[lexort420]

I do water fert water fert usually unless the are problems than I do something like water water fert etc. Im not sure how they would end up with nitrogen toxicity due to the receiving nutrient lvls intended for seedlings and and freshly rooted clones. This is my first go with GH flora series 3 part i had been using MG liquid ferts and had less issues then now lol

 

[lexort420]

Ya i just don't get it my clones are showing signs of so many things im just confused as can be. Never had this much trouble when growing from seeds. Anyways here are today's pictures

 

[Weaselcracker]

The clones and seeds shouldn't be much different in terms of general vigor, I would think. So what has changed since the last grow? Anything?
If your plants were in regular soil I would say they look overwatered. When that happens, besides the wilting, they tend to yellow up and show nitrogen deficiency and slow growth.
The jiffy soilless stuff is presumably either coco or peat moss, therefore a ph of 5.8-6.2. I think we've already got that one figured out, unless there is something hiding. You've tested the ph of the runoff, right? Sorry if you posted that already- I hate to go back and read through the journal again. I know you tested ppm.
What else is there?
Temps- but unless they were extreme I wouldn't think the plants would look so wilty.
Humidity- I've had all sorts of high humidity and didn't notice constant wilting.
Root issues? I still think that they should be in opaque pots- though I don't know the consequences if they're not. I know it worked fine for you before- I'm just tossing ideas around.
The roots will want to grow to the outside, but can't because they're scared of daylight. So I guess they'll stop short of the outside somehow.
A couple other things occur to me though- one is all the microbial, bacterial, fungal life that supposedly lives in symbiosis with the roots. These things are evolved to live in darkness, so they won't be super happy about the light either, and won't survive in it. We don't always fully believe in it because we can't see it without a good microscope- but word on the street is that there are billions of little critters down there at work among the roots.
The only other thing I can think of is algae growth from the light. I don't know if it causes problems beyond stealing some tiny bit of nutrients.
Oh yeah, one more thing. I don't use cfls much except for cloning, but people seem to put them a couple inches away, and Nivek who grew/grows with only cfls, said he puts them an inch away. I imagine that this takes daily fussing around to keep moving the lights/plants as they grow. But they seem so weak to begin with, that I think you'd get better results if they're as close as possible.

 

[lexort420]

B.real you are probably right about the n tox i just don't understand how it happened but i can't deny the symptoms cause they most definitely are present. So i guess the next course of action is straight h20 for a couple waterings atleast and hope they dont die in the mean time. The one thing that doesn't add up is that my leaves arent dark green per say which is usually accompanied by the clawing leaves and yellowing lower leaves

 

[Weaselcracker]

I agree that they have that clawed look- but all the nitrogen overdose pics I'm constantly seeing on the forum show very dark green leaves. To me your plants look low on nitrogen, for whatever reason, which is why I made the overwatering comment. But I'm really not an expert on deficiencies, or anything else much. I'm hoping OMU will pass through at some point and add to the discussion.

 

[lexort420]

Hey weasel here are the changes from last grow ( extra perlite added for better drainage the GH flora series 3 part nutes are new too and using distilled water now instead of my horrible tap water) temps are fine its 66-72 degrees Fahrenheit humidity is down now due to me leaving the door open more lol the only nutes the clones have received is GH flora series 3 part at a dosage meant for seedlings and freshly rooted clone which if i remember correctly it is 1/4 tsp per gallon of water. I figure the chem ferts kill off all the bacterial and fungi stuff. Ummm im too lazy to go and look but i believe my last runoff check was a ph of 6.5 and a ppm of 196.

 

[lexort420]

Here are the problems the clones are having 1. The leaves even the new ones are clawing 2. A few leaves have started twisting kinda like a cork screw but not that twisted lol 3. Bottom leaves are yellowing and the middle section of leaves are a lighter green where as the newest leaves up top are the normal green im use to seeing with this plant 4. New growth are scrawny little stems and leaves. That about covers it as far as the problems go

 

[Weaselcracker]

Not all the things in your list are necessarily problems. Some of them may be because they are revegging plants. They do grow skinny little stems, and if my memory is right- those leaves sometimes have a bit of a twisted or clawed look to them. I could be wrong about the second point but it seems to me that those single/three bladed leaves can look pretty funky.
If you are giving them 1/4 tsp per gallon of nutes- that is extremely low. I like underfeeding them as much as possible- but I would probably be giving them at least 3-5 ml per gallon of the nutes I'm using, which max out at about 30ml/gallon - same as the. GH stuff I believe. I never go as high as 30 ml- usually not beyond 20- but it gives a rough idea.
If I remember correctly though- you've dropped the nute levels because of previous problems. Hmmm. Confusing

 

[lexort420]

I backed off the nutes being given as frequently due to the problems cause i feared nute lockout cause i thought it was starting lockout. When i first got the tds meter my runoff was pretty high but now its lower and same with the ph it was high but now its lower which is due to using distilled water now. If it wasn't for the clawing i would say they need a good feeding of higher strength nutes but im still trying to figure out this new nute system. I have a jug mixed up waiting for when they can handle it but its 1tsp per gallon this time instead of the 1/4tsp i had been using

 

[lexort420]

Here is some pictures of the weird stuff going on with the leaves

 

[lexort420]

Well i just took a leap of faith and watered the clone in the Gatorade bottle with some stronger nutes. This batch of nutes is 1tsp of each of the 3 part in a one gallon jug. The runoff is 725ppm with a ph of 5.8. So the ph is good still not sure about where my PPM's should be so i predict one of two things happening here either A that clone dies or B it thrives. Im hoping for the latter lol

 

[Weaselcracker]

Good idea to experiment around. 800 may be a little high but if so I doubt it will cause big problems and you can always go back to flushing.

 

[lexort420]

Ya i figured that clone can be the test dummy lol. Im still trying to get the hang of the GH nutes. Im still below 800ppm by a little so i hope its gonna be ok lol. I wonder if I am gonna have cal/mag issues even though this nute system has some in it. I suppose ill know if this worked or not in a couple days probably.

 

[lexort420]

Here's today's photos lol

 

[lexort420]

Just said the hell with it and I watered the clone in the 2-liter bottle with nutes the run off was 685ppm 5.7ph so that aint horrible i guess lol

 

[OldMedUser]

Your older plants definitely look hungry Lexort.

Seeing N and likely Mg issues a while back and now some low P showing up as well.

If you've just given them a stronger dose then you should be good for now and hopefully things will come around.

Don't worry about the micro-herd when you are feeding hydro nutes. They are there to convert organic material into the nutrient salts that the plant can use and not required with hydro nutes as those nutes are already in a form that the plant can use immediately.

It wouldn't hurt to add a little CalMag if you have it or even just some epsom salts at a tsp/gal. I just used epsom salts for years before I got CalMag and never saw any issues with low Ca using distilled or RO water.

L8r

 

[lexort420]

So im guessing the mag in my GH flora series isn't enough then? Honestly I wasn't even thinking about the micro herd cause I thought it would be near nonexistent due to using chem ferts. Ill have to pick up some epsom salt soon lol. What exactly makes you think p deficiency?

 

[OldMedUser]

They are looking hungry for everything but those dark blotches on the older fan leaves are indicative of advanced low P. Low K as well but that's being masked by the yellowing caused by low N and Mg.

There is some Mg, Ca and the other micro nutes in your stuff but a little extra Mg doesn't hurt. Some extra S comes along with epsom salts as well. Also with the distilled water generally extra Ca is a good idea but like I said before I never saw any signs of low Ca using basically the same thing you are but the AN version of the 3-part nutes. I've taken to grinding up a couple of my zinc tablets and giving that to the plants as well. It's an often overlooked mineral for plants and people too. I take a 50mg zinc everyday and it stops the frequent urge to piss that woke me up 3 or 4 times every night. A common complaint with us older dudes.

L8r

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for the great info OldMed, both on plants and personal health issues. I'm getting old enough that I often have to toss and turn and drag myself awake in the night, just to crawl out of my cabin and pee in the night. What a lot of suffering just for a bit of pee!! I HATE waking up!!! Getting older is a trade off. When I was younger mostly I felt like I was constantly getting pissed on by life/god/whatever!! Now I do what I want and dodge most of that piss falling from great heights -but I need sleep!
Anyway- badly off topic ha ha ha.
Any thoughts on why his plants are so droopy OMU?