Let's Find a Mother! Hiking Through a Field of Mary Jane

[Xlr8]

Gotta admit, I feel like a tool for not being subbed to this fine journal of yours already. Doh!

On the timers... I've had issues with timers and digital ballasts, too. It's difficult to find reliable timers it seems, as different digi ballasts seem to affect timers... differently. For some, no issues ever. For others, nothing but problems. Seems like there's some major inconsistencies with ballasts that some timers struggle with - not sure why.

I had Apollo 9's that did the same thing, but then also heard about not being digital friendly with those either. BUT, here's the rub. These timers are mass produced and licensed (at least the Apollo 9's). In other words, a dozen other vendors sell the same timer with their own label on it. Most of them don't claim it to be "non digital friendly" either. So... I think they rebrand something that ended up having some limitations, for whatever reason. Where they typically shine (Titan), is on their higher end timers, controllers and products as well as (typically) pretty decent customer service (IMO). I found pretty reliable timers from "Intermatic" that I like so far, but not sure if they have something that's good for 240v, etc...

 

[Hiker]

That's crazy, been using mine with a dual 600 and a lumatek 600 for years. Maybe I'm lucky. Hope ya get it figured out man.

You're using the Apollo 11 with digital ballasts?

In the letter he sent, it was suggested that the problem is worse with 1000W ballasts. It makes sense that the larger ballasts would have larger spikes. Maybe the 600s don't cause a problem, but a 750 is enough to be on the borderline and it's only affecting one of my timers.

The timer shut off just fine last night btw, but I DID get up at 3:45AM to make sure.

Gotta admit, I feel like a tool for not being subbed to this fine journal of yours already. Doh!

On the timers... I've had issues with timers and digital ballasts, too. It's difficult to find reliable timers it seems, as different digi ballasts seem to affect timers... differently. For some, no issues ever. For others, nothing but problems. Seems like there's some major inconsistencies with ballasts that some timers struggle with - not sure why.

I had Apollo 9's that did the same thing, but then also heard about not being digital friendly with those either. BUT, here's the rub. These timers are mass produced and licensed (at least the Apollo 9's). In other words, a dozen other vendors sell the same timer with their own label on it. Most of them don't claim it to be "non digital friendly" either. So... I think they rebrand something that ended up having some limitations, for whatever reason. Where they typically shine (Titan), is on their higher end timers, controllers and products as well as (typically) pretty decent customer service (IMO). I found pretty reliable timers from "Intermatic" that I like so far, but not sure if they have something that's good for 240v, etc...

Hey X!

I'm honored to have our reigning MoY visit my thread.

When I took back the first Apollo 11, they hydro shop asked if I wanted the other brand. It was the identical timer, so I just stuck with Titan figuring that first failure was a fluke. At least I have an explanation, and I think I can limp along until I can acquire some new timers. I'd really like to wait until I can afford a nice relay sort of controller, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

I was searching for timers yesterday, and Intermatic does make some 240V timers that are rated for plenty of amps. I need to order a small blower fan and another pump anyway, so I can just add a timer to the order. Now that I know what the problem is though, I'm not panicked about it like I was yesterday.

In case anyone is interested, here is Titan's response about the timers:

Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding the timer issue, I am wondering if you are using digital ballasts directly plugged into the timer. The symptoms that you are describing are conducive to the timer being use to power up a digital ballast ( lights stay on and won't shut off). We have a statement in out catalog and our web site stating that we do not recommend that the Apollo 6,7,8,9,10,and 11 timers be used on digital ballasts, below is copied from the Titan Controls web site: under tech tips

Q = I want to run electronic/digital ballasts on the Apollo 9. I won't exceed 1000 watts. Is this okay?

A: Not recommended! Digital ballasts have a huge initial in-rush of power (from 10 to 40 times the input power) when they strike the bulb. This initial power surge wreaks havoc on the timer. The contactors inside the timer are small and can be adversely affected by this power surge. The best answer to this situation is to consider using the Apollo 4 to run your ballast. It has a heavy duty relay built into the Apollo 4 that is intended to handle a power load like this from ballasts.

I would like to add to this for you Hiker that the Apollo 5 is recommended for 240 volt digital ballasts.​

Other than that, everything is doing well down there. All my yellowing is gone now that res temps are up and I bumped up the N a little. I think all the heavy defol was making them N deficient a little. They look beautiful now, both above and below.

The clones look good too. I have a rooted clone from every strain, but I am not sure I have every single plant yet. I haven't cross referenced yet. There are 41 clones transplanted into Solo cups, and another dozen or so that still had not rooted as of last night. One of my Cheese Bomb clones was loose in the rooter, so I pulled it out and the tip of the stem was all mush. The rest was still healthy looking, so I recut it, redipped it, and reinserted it into a rapid rooter. I only had 2 clones of this strain, so I'd like both to make it. I didn't clone the other Cheese Bomb plant as it was my smallest runt of the seeds, but she looks great now. She is smaller, but it was just because she was very sensitive to my hard water at the beginning. That is my most indica looking strain, so I'm keenly interested in it.


Tonight is date night with Mrs Hiker, so I probably won't get to flush the res tonight. Tomorrow.

See ya down the trail...

 

[Hiker]

Quick update today. Pictures tomorrow.

I culled the males this weekend. I needed the space as it was pretty crowded in there. Now the plants will be able to spread out better. The bad news is, three of my strains ended up ALL male. I realize it's statistically possible for this to happen, and not even that unlikely (1 in 8 chance), but I'm pretty bummed about it. All 3 of my Blueberry, Bubblelicious, and THC Bomb plants were male. So I ended up culling 10 plants total. A few are still alive, but no longer connected to the bucket system, so they will be culled tonight. I only saved them because it's so hard to give up on 3 strains! I keep trying to convince myself that I'm misreading them, but I know what male flowers look like. I thought I Had a good close up of some flowers, but cell phone pics suck.

Here is the best picture I have of some of the male flowers. Sure looks like a male to me. Does anyone disagree?

The number of mails isn't really surprising. I had plants from 23 seeds in the room. Of those, 20 were regular seeds, so according to basic statistics, I should have had 10 males. I just thought they would have been spread out among the different strains a little more evenly.

I'm not sure what to do with these genetics now. I have 3 strains that are all males. I was planning to keep some fathers around for breeding later, but I'm reluctant to breed with males of a strain I haven't grown a female. Right now, I'm leaning towards keeping the healthiest clone from the healthiest male of each strain (total of 3) and just hold on to them. I also had one male White Widow. I have 2 females of that strain as well, but one of them is the run that is sharing a bucket. At least for that strain I have a good mother nad father candidate.

I'm trying to look at the bright side. Now, instead of having to work with 9 strains, I've cut that down a third to only 6. I would have been OK with the THC Bomb and Bubbleicious getting sent back to the bench for awhile, but I'm really bummed about the Blueberry. Out of all the seeds I bought, that was the only strain I had any experience growing before and was really looking forward to it. Maybe this will turn out to be a good thing. I want to grow Blueberry, so this will motivate me to get the veg area built out so I have the facilities to start new seeds and experiment with new strains.

Since 9 plants were removed, I had to replumb my buckets. I cleaned out all the buckets and had to use new tubing since the spacing changed. This res was made as a transition res, so the K got bumped and I added the Liquid KoolBloom for the first time. My notes are downstairs, but I'll post the nute soup recipe when I post more pictures later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[cannasensei]

That sucks man sorry to hear it. That's definetly a dude. But as u said perhaps now ull put some gusto into that veg area looking forward to the pics

 

[shottafire]

It appears to have male parts. I am trying to find myself a decent male that wants to procreate with all the ladies.

Hey brother hiker! wanted to know if you have any favorite places to hike in the san gabriels. been getting all bear grylls up there with a couple friends this past summer. I want to camp for a coupe days up there this spring.

Not sure if your familiar wit the area but I thought I read somewhere you lived around these parts

 

[Hiker]

Thanks Canna.

Just writing the post has helped me come to terms with it a bit

It's just hard for my brain to believe that 3 strains were 3/3. I can't help thinking that perhaps I stressed them into being male or something, or worse, that I'm misreading and I killed a bunch of females. Luckily, the White Widow strain produced both sexes. I wanted to see male and female of the same strain to convince myself that these three strains don't just have some unusual looking calyxes.

I have 7 more seeds of all the strains, so I'll just have to try again later on. At least next time, I'll only pop one new strain at a time. I have a feeling Blueberry is gonna get popped first.

It appears to have male parts. I am trying to find myself a decent male that wants to procreate with all the ladies.

Hey brother hiker! wanted to know if you have any favorite places to hike in the san gabriels. been getting all bear grylls up there with a couple friends this past summer. I want to camp for a coupe days up there this spring.

Not sure if your familiar wit the area but I thought I read somewhere you lived around these parts

I have done hiking in the San Gabriels many times. I'm assuming you're coming from the LA side? I've not done much from that side though. The only hike I have done from the "city side" was to some waterfall. My girlfriend at the time knew of the hike, so I honestly don't recall exactly where we were. The big thing I remember is walking through this beautiful little canyon and being very saddened by all the graffiti on the rocks. I hate taggers. A LOT. I tend not to be a violent person, but I could see myself really hurting someone if I ever caught them tagging someplace like that. If they wanna tag a building in the city, go ahead, I could care less, but when they start defacing the rocks and trees in natural places, I get pretty steamed up. It's just such a selfish act. They got to enjoy the beauty of nature without being soiled my man. They stole that from every person that followed them.

OK I better get off the soapbox. That's not what you asked about....

In 2011, I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail from the border with Mexico, up to Donner Pass (about 1150 trail miles). The trail goes right through the San Gabriels, and I'd have to say just about any part of it would be enjoyable. The downside is, most of the good access will be from the less populated, north side. When I was much younger, I used to visit an area at the eastern end of the San Gabriels called Lytle Creek. It's not far from I-15. I think I hiked into that part of the mountains 3 or 4 times. That's pretty much the extent of my explorations in that area. The best areas IMHO, will be on the northern side. If you're in LA, I think they reopened Hwy 2 the year I hiked the PCT, so you could get to the "good side" fairly easily that way. SR39 also looks like it goes right into the heart of the nice part. You might try driving to the end of that hwy and hike from there. The San Gabriels can be pretty rugged/steep, but they certainly are an island of loveliness surrounded by a whole lot of ugliness.

Just reread your post. You're looking for a nice over night or 2 night hike? Lytle Creek.

I just pulled out my maps and took a look. It's Middle Fork of Lytle Creek. My map doesn't show it, but I recall the area we hiked into being called "three streams" crossing. I'm not gonna try and give directions here. Google Middle Fork Lytle Creek and there is plenty of info. It's only a few miles in to where the streams confluence. There are some nice places to make camp there, and you're right next to some of the waterfalls.

Anyway, thanks for that little trip down memory lane.

 

[shottafire]

No problem Hiker. I am going to go and take a look at lytle creek, and the place you speak of. I did a hike last year down into bear creek canyon which is pretty much washed out from erosion and flooding but wow I never would have known a place so beautiful existed in the middle of all this ugliness.

How many days or months did the PCT take you ?

 

[Cultivator]

Do u not use contactor/relay boxes with ur ballasts? u shouldnt plug a ballast into a regular timer, it cant handle the load usually. especially when using 600w+.

 

[Hiker]

No problem Hiker. I am going to go and take a look at lytle creek, and the place you speak of. I did a hike last year down into bear creek canyon which is pretty much washed out from erosion and flooding but wow I never would have known a place so beautiful existed in the middle of all this ugliness.

How many days or months did the PCT take you ?

The last time I tried to hike Lytle Creek I think there was a fire or something and I couldn't handle the bad air. I have asthma, and sometimes I'm real sensitive to things like smoke. I can rip a mean bong hit though.

It's a pretty neat spot that is, as you said, very close to all the ugliness. The falls are nice. I recall climbing up to the pool between the falls, it's a 2 tiered fall, and it was neat, but a pretty sketchy climb. If you continue up the trail passed the falls, it does go up towards the top of the falls, but it turns before you get to close. I climbed to the top and found the trail down nearby. If you want another cool option, you could hike a short section of the PCT. Start a little ways west of Wrightwood, then hike East towards Badel Powell. You can summit the peak (probably snow until late May most years), then it's a real short decent back to the hwy. The PCT crosses Hwy 2 several times in that section and you could hike any of them in a quick weekend. You would either have to hitchike to or from your car, or do a car shuttle.

I started hiking on April 24, 2011 (Easter), and got off the trail at the end of August. Honestly I can't recall the exact date without looking.

Do u not use contactor/relay boxes with ur ballasts? u shouldnt plug a ballast into a regular timer, it cant handle the load usually. especially when using 600w+.

Glad to see you around.

I do not use relay boxes. I thought I could just use timers to start until I can invest in a nicer controller. I'm pretty handy with electrical, so I'm thinking about building the relay box. I saw some designs that look pretty simple. I like some of the controllers that will stagger the starts automatically.

Which relay do you recommend? Titan recommend the Apollo 5

I have good news. I thought all the Blueberries were male, but when I went to bed last night, there was one 'lost' plant. Yes, I realize just how stoned/tired I was.

So at lights on, I went a hunting and I found my missing Blueberry lady.

So now I have assured myself some of these strains don't just have odd looking calyxes. I'm a much happier hiker than I was this morning.

 

[cannasensei]

Score! Glad to hear it buddy!

 

[Cultivator]

i just use a blackbox, not sure who makes it but i run upto 12 lights on some of them and never had a failure yet mate.

 

[cannasensei]

i just use a blackbox, not sure who makes it but i run upto 12 lights on some of them and never had a failure yet mate.

This is the 6 unit but I think this is the one?

 

[Vick074]

Glad to hear it's not all balls in there hiker!

 

[Hiker]

Score! Glad to hear it buddy!

Thanks CS

i just use a blackbox, not sure who makes it but i run upto 12 lights on some of them and never had a failure yet mate.

This is the 6 unit but I think this is the one?

Thanks guys.

That unit looks like it’s for UK. Isn't the power different there? I don't think it runs at 60hz, so I'm not sure if it will work in the US. I found a couple equivalent units from C.A.P. and Titan that are not too expensive. I may still build a relay box though. It's not a very complex circuit, so I know I can make one easy enough. I'll have to add up the cost of the components and then decide if the savings are enough to justify the time I spend on it.

Glad to hear it's not all balls in there hiker!

LOL. Me too!

**********************************************************************************

Last night I finally got the buckets put on risers. I've been meaning to do this for a couple weeks, but didn't get to it until yesterday. I just put 2 sx4s under each row of buckets. I used 2 to make them more stable. When I set the bucket on a single 2x4, it was too unsteady. The 2x4 is the perfect thickness to raise the buckets just enough to make them drain completely.

Culling the males was very informative as I got to see the root structure for 9 of the plants. This is what led to raising the buckets. What I found was the roots below the inner bucket, ie the ones sitting in the water remaining at the bottom of the buckets, did not look great. They were clumped together and just not healthy looking. Some were worse than others. The roots in the rock however, look fantastic! I actually expected more root mass, but I think my cold res temps stunted root growth at the beginning. I think the lower roots were just sitting in the water too long. I only exchange that water 3 times a day, so it was certainly low on dissolved O2. I'm confident raising the buckets will help.

While I was picking up the 2x4s I got some extras and more foam panels to work on the veg area. I should have that done this weekend. It's a lot more crowded in there with those foam panels sitting there. I need to get those 'installed' asap to free up space to move around in the basement. Building the second flowering room is gonna be a PITA! I think I'm going to have to relocate the nursery while I work in that section of the basement. I probably should finish sealing up the ceiling there before I start working on the area below. The more I think about this, I realize there will be a lot of work to do this. I have leftover material from sealing up where the flowering room is, but now it's sorta been buried. For example, I've got 55 gallons of RO water sitting in front of my extra sheets of drywall. Then there are the 9 male plants hanging up that are in the way too. So much to do down there! I'm just short on time, money, and room to work down there! :surrender:

Here are the dead dudes hanging to dry in the basement. You can kinda see how crowded it's getting down there. See the 3 foam panels in the bottom right corner?

How the flowering room looks now. They are almost all making little clusters of hairs now, and they are still stretching, although there hasn't been too much stretch yet, most likely due to the heavy defol. I did do a little bending after I opened up some space in there. I think they will all spread out more now that they have room to. Bending is helping too. There are lots of branches buried in the middle, so I've been opening them up a little. I've taken a few fan leaves, but literally only 4-6 leaves total.

You can also see the boards under the buckets now.

That plant in the middle row, on the left, is the double. That's why it looks weird. Those are the 2 runts. The one on the left is the White Widow, on the right is Cheese Bomb. Since my other White Widows were doing so well, and my other Cheese Bomb is also smaller, I've been cutting back the WW to make more room for the CB. One of my WW turned out to be male, but the remaining female WW is still bigger than both CB put together! In case anyone is counting... there are now 13 buckets with 14 plants remaining.

The perspective in this shot is a little misleading. That CB looks much bigger than it's WW bucketmate, but it isn't. The plants on the right are the larger plants. The canopy is actually pretty even, but I did arrange them from smallest to largest from left to right. I moved the buckets around after this photo to make the spacing a little more even as well.

I really like the buckets raised up like that. I do have a small concern about the tubing. The way it's sitting now, some stagnant water will remain in the long tubing for each row since it sits below the 2x4. This isn't a lot of water, but it does give an advantage to the plants 'first in line' so to speak. All this stagnant water always gets pushed down the line, so the last plants will end up getting the brunt of it.

When I was designing the space, I wanted to build a subfloor that would also be part of the ventilation system. I want to make a perimeter frame, then glue it to the floor. Then I will put some plywood on top as a raised floor. If I do it the width of a single 2x4, it will help the buckets drain as well. I'll just leave the controller bucket on the floor. Obviously the plywood will need supports other than the perimeter frame. Rather then add 2x4 all the way across the floor, I will strategically place small blocks to help support the floor/buckets. I will screw small scraps of 2x4 to the floor plywood, but it will not attach to the perimeter frame. Once the floor is on, I will perforate the plywood with holes. The last step will be to install a blower pushing air down into the space below the floor. Because my support blocks will allow air to flow throughout the entire floorspace, the air will exit through the small perforations. By putting the fan up high and then running ducting into the floor, it will help to circulate the air, and it will make the air blow against the bottoms of the leaves, where the stomata are anyway! Maybe I need to try drawing a picture to demonstrate what I'm trying to describe. A picture is worth a 100 words and all that.

I'm not building it until after this harvest though. While I'm sure it would be working wonderfully for this grow, I'm not sure how well it will work when I switch to my pseudo-sog style of grow. With the buckets packed together, I'm not sure how much airflow will be coming up from the floor. We'll see. I really want to build it, so...

Sorry I ramble on a lot, but sometimes I just really treat this journal as a journal! I don't really know what folks want to see and what they wish I wouldn't bother posting. This whole grow room is brand new, so there are lots of things to think about and find solutions for along the way. Maybe my next journal will be a little more succinct and provide more valuable info for new growers. Anyway, that's enough for today. Thanks for following along.

 

[cannasensei]

I had the same idea for a floor just never had the means to actually apply it. You must do this lol.

I like that you use the.journal as such I find most the.good info in people's ramblings. The distracted mind tends to recall more detail. I wish I could do it haha

 

[Hiker]

LOL

You don't want me to share every detail.

I'm a little ummmm... my buddy says I'm too 'ytical'. He says it's nicer than saying I'm anal. I like to say I'm 'detail orientated'. Reality is I'm a little OCD, or a lot depending on the day. It paid off tonight though! I was trying to determine when I flipped to 12/12, and I was able to look here.

I disposed of a lot of clones tonight. I only kept clones from the White Widow male and one of the Blueberries. I decided not to keep any from the 2 strains that were all male. Breeding is a long way off, and I'm reluctant to breed with a strain I've never seen flower. When I am ready to add more strains later on, I'll have to pop seeds, so I'll have more males. So I'll have 2 fathers, White Widow and Blueberry, and both are superb specimens IMHO.

GLR may not live up to all the claims some make, but it definitely makes plants start flowering fast. This is only 11 days into flower.

Critical Kush, Day 11

AK-48, Day 11

And here is the canopy. Still plenty of plants, but not so crowded now. This angle makes it looks real sparse, but it's only this end. I have the larger, more sativaish (new word! ) plants all at the other end and the smaller Indicas at this end.

I just noticed this shot includes my custom made fan hats. They are to block the surprisingly blue light from the fans since they run 24/7. It's hard to see, but you can see that they are sized perfectly so that the remote control sensor window is still visible. They are made from an ultra plush, high end, eco friendly, and let's not forget classy, uHaul moving blanket. Oh ya, and duct tape.

I want to apologize for the crappy pics I post. I learned a new focus trick on the iPhone tonight, so hopefully they will improve some. I can't do anything about the yellow HPS coloring though. I miss my D90.

Time for sleep

Happy trails everyone

 

[Vick074]

I agree with canna about the good info that can be found in another's so called ramblings.
Don't think of it like you're boring or confusing people by how you run your journal.
Journals are for us personally, to document, list, keep track of our everyday gardening.
So if others don't have the patience to sift through to find what's valuable for them? then that's their loss.
In my opinion, you carry out your journal with great professionalism, documenting things in a way that is easy and quite pleasant to read.
So keep doing what you're doing hiker.
Applying one's OCD to their garden, can only make for cleaner, happier, healthier, plants.

 

[Hiker]

I agree with canna about the good info that can be found in another's so called ramblings.
Don't think of it like you're boring or confusing people by how you run your journal.
Journals are for us personally, to document, list, keep track of our everyday gardening.
So if others don't have the patience to sift through to find what's valuable for them? then that's their loss.
In my opinion, you carry out your journal with great professionalism, documenting things in a way that is easy and quite pleasant to read.
So keep doing what you're doing hiker.
Applying one's OCD to their garden, can only make for cleaner, happier, healthier, plants.

Thanks Vick

That probably means more to me than you thought it would.

 

[Xlr8]

I agree with Vick completely. I'm accused of being OCD all the time by my family and friends - and I suppose I am to a degree, but it can work in my favor too, especially with growing.

I've been asked a number of times by people for advice on journaling, and I always tell them to do it for yourself and not worry about what others want or think. Almost without fail, if you journal that way, people will respond favorably anyway. I try to think of it in the terms of "what info will help future me in my next grow?". Because, especially in the beginning, I found myself frequently referring back to my first journal (and often wishing I'd have made better notes for my future self).

Nice job so far!

 

[Hiker]

I agree with Vick completely. I'm accused of being OCD all the time by my family and friends - and I suppose I am to a degree, but it can work in my favor too, especially with growing.

I've been asked a number of times by people for advice on journaling, and I always tell them to do it for yourself and not worry about what others want or think. Almost without fail, if you journal that way, people will respond favorably anyway. I try to think of it in the terms of "what info will help future me in my next grow?". Because, especially in the beginning, I found myself frequently referring back to my first journal (and often wishing I'd have made better notes for my future self).

Nice job so far!

Thanks X! Those comments are much appreciated.

This journal is for me, but I also try to keep in mind that others are reading this, so I want to try and make interesting and/or valuable. We're all pressed for time, so I'm flattered that folks are following along with my ramblings. LOL The journal has come in handy already. I keep both this and a written journal, and sometimes I forget to write things down, but then I remember when I am updating this journal. I looked here to figure out when I flipped to 12/12 because I couldn't find it in my written journal. I actually did find where I wrote it down. It was just like a small side note, so I circled it and highlighted it in my journal! I won't miss it next time I go looking haha



I've got a few pics to share. First, here is an update on my roots. Here are 2 of the larger plants. I'm actually not sure which plants were in the previous root pics. I do know that the roots look awesome now. I did a few things to make them look better. I think the H2O2 and Zone treatments certainly helped, but I think most of the credit goes to raising the buckets. I think the roots were not happy sitting in the water at the bottom of the buckets.

Here are the ladies. It's hard for me to believe I took 9 plants out of here last week!

Since I always take the above shot, I thought I would try a shot from the other end of the room. I like the way the room looks from this side.

I didn't get my veg area built this weekend. The temps have been pretty good since I wrapped everything up in towels as insulation and put a space heater in the area. It's been 70F inside, so the urgency is slightly reduced. It will probably happen next weekend. I did at least start drawing up a design. I gotta know what I'm building before I can build it!

Part of the reason I didn't work on the veg area is I worked on my DIY cloner. It's a pretty easy project to build. It takes a little time to layout the holes and actually cut them, but the whole project is easily done in an afternoon/evening. I built the whole thing in a couple hours while watching TV with Mrs Hiker.

The supplies. (Not shown: PVC pipe)

You need one of these hole saws to make clean holes. Even with the right tool, a few of my holes are a little loose. I'll see if it tightens up with there is a stem in the foam insert.

The finished cloner. I won't need it for another week or so. Hopefully I'll have the beg area all built out before I fire this baby up!