Let's Find a Mother! Hiking Through a Field of Mary Jane
- Thread starter Hiker
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #782
Wow! talk about a neglected journal! 
A lot has happened since April.
My old mothers have been flowering since the beginning of June. They are being "cleaned up" currently. I'm not defoliating as heavily as I have in the past, but I am "lollipoping" and removing a lot of extra branches. At one point in their life, these moms had started flowering. If you have ever revegged a plant, you know what the growth looks like where the little buds were. There is a cluster of dozens branches. I know from experience, I will get a better result by keeping only a couple of them. I also get rid of all the lower branches. I want the plant to put all it's energy and resources into the main colas. They are old plants, so they are kind of tall. I'm really pushing it a bit vertically, ie they are a little close the the lights, but I use a light mover, so the bulbs do not linger next to the plants very long.
I have 9 of my moms under the 3 750W HPS on the mover. They are moving ~3'. This is a little more than the width of the reflector's light pattern. It might even be less distance than that. I then have 2 more of them on the other side of the room under my 2 TopLED 450W(? the 192x3w long narrow model) lamps. I had a duplicate of one of my mothers, so I have one of each to do another test of HPS vs LED. I consider my first test somewhat inconclusive. I had all the lights next to each other. While this definitely benefited the plants in the middle, it wasn't a good test. This time, the lights are fart enough apart that there is no overlap. I have several feet between their usable footprint.
There is another new element happening in this round. All 11 plants are in soil! Back in the old days, I grew in various soil mixes, but eventually moved to hydro and never looked back. Recently I'm getting interested soil growing, so this round is my first re-entry into soil growing.
So far so good. The mothers were actually in very rough shape when they went into the flowering room. I nursed them back to health for several weeks before flipping to 12/12. They look fantastic now. Sorry no pics today.
I've been feeding them a tea mix. My recipe varies a little as I experiment with different ingredients, but the results have been great so far. The ladies sure seem to like it!
Here is the list of ingredients I've been using. I don't use all of them all the time and the amounts have been variable as I test things:
Aquashield - a liquid compost made of chicken manure. This contains some of the bacteria I'm trying to grow. 1 tsp per batch usually
Mykos - Extreme Gardening mycorizzae. This is the fungus to grow. I use 1/2 - 1 tsp per batch
OG Tea - a powdered mix of bacteria. The brand is something about Sonoma County OG. It was not cheap, but it is a large bag and I only use 1/2 - 1 tsp per batch.
Mollasses - Make sure it's unsulphered. I've varied this from 1 tsp to 4 tsp. 3-4 seems to be optimum so far.
Azomite - Rock powder has trace minerals. I use this about every other batch. 1/2 - 1 tsp
Oyster Shell - lots of Ca. Like Azomite, I use it every other time. 1/2 - 1 tsp.
CaMg - I'm using General Organics brand. Can't recall the amounts, but probably about half the bottle recommendation.
EWC - Earth Worm Castings. Yes, this is worm poop, and it's black gold. I use 1/2 - 1 cup each batch.
Bat Guano - Have Mexican (high N) and Jamaican (high P) varieties. I use 1 - 2 tsp each batch. The P guano started at 0 and has been increasing. I will likely stop using or further reduce the amount of N.
ProTekt - This is a silicon supplement I give to all of my plants until about the last month. I can't recall the amounts. I use the bottle guidlines.
Superthrive - I don't always use this. I'm unsure how much it does, but I have it, so I use it.
1/2 capful
Nutes - I haven't added them to the last couple of batches, but I was adding a fairly dilute solution of --- nutes leftover from my prize package. I don't plan to add anymore nutes to my teas. I want to see if they are needed. I don't think so.
I think that's everything I've been using. I plan to add some greensand, but I have plans to visit "the city" anytime soon.
One important thing everyone should know... I think I read this somewhere, but I did test it to see...
Do NOT use tap water to brew your tea. The chlorine will kill what you're trying to grow. If you must use tap water, put the airstone in it and let it bubble with plain water for 24 hours before mixing tea. If you're going this route, it won't make your process any harder. The tea brews for ~24 hours, and I feed my plants every other day. That means one day I brew tea, the other I "serve" the tea. If you have to let your water stand, you would just refill your bucket immediately after "serving". I refill mine the next day as I am using RO. Also, if you're using tap water, I have no idea if, or how much, CaMg you will need.
OK I just did a preview, and this is already longer than most people want to read.
I have also built out my veg area. I have one, of two, 2' x 4' tray up and running. I did take some pictures of this, but haven't gotten them off my phone yet. I built a second DIY aero cloner, and sorta rebuilt the original. They are just using taller totes. In fact, I reused the old lid and just had to put in a larger riser on the old sprayer manifold.
I had a little problem with stuff starting to grow in the veg res. I didn't have the trays full of rock, so the nute solution was getting light on it during flood. That's fixed now, but I have been using some H2O2 to help clean things up. As always I'm running sterile with DM's Zone, so I know I can cure it quickly. The smell just started yesterday morning (the system has been up and running for about 4-5 days), and is already almost gone.
Sorry about no pics, but life has me too busy. In addition to all the activity in the basement, I put in a real veggie garden this year, and we just finished rebuilding our deck out back.
Anyway, keep 'em green everyone
EDIT for addition:
I just realized I left off some details on the tea in case anyone was interested...
I use 5g of RO with the above amounts then dilute into ~10g total.
A lot has happened since April.
My old mothers have been flowering since the beginning of June. They are being "cleaned up" currently. I'm not defoliating as heavily as I have in the past, but I am "lollipoping" and removing a lot of extra branches. At one point in their life, these moms had started flowering. If you have ever revegged a plant, you know what the growth looks like where the little buds were. There is a cluster of dozens branches. I know from experience, I will get a better result by keeping only a couple of them. I also get rid of all the lower branches. I want the plant to put all it's energy and resources into the main colas. They are old plants, so they are kind of tall. I'm really pushing it a bit vertically, ie they are a little close the the lights, but I use a light mover, so the bulbs do not linger next to the plants very long.
I have 9 of my moms under the 3 750W HPS on the mover. They are moving ~3'. This is a little more than the width of the reflector's light pattern. It might even be less distance than that. I then have 2 more of them on the other side of the room under my 2 TopLED 450W(? the 192x3w long narrow model) lamps. I had a duplicate of one of my mothers, so I have one of each to do another test of HPS vs LED. I consider my first test somewhat inconclusive. I had all the lights next to each other. While this definitely benefited the plants in the middle, it wasn't a good test. This time, the lights are fart enough apart that there is no overlap. I have several feet between their usable footprint.
There is another new element happening in this round. All 11 plants are in soil! Back in the old days, I grew in various soil mixes, but eventually moved to hydro and never looked back. Recently I'm getting interested soil growing, so this round is my first re-entry into soil growing.
So far so good. The mothers were actually in very rough shape when they went into the flowering room. I nursed them back to health for several weeks before flipping to 12/12. They look fantastic now. Sorry no pics today.
I've been feeding them a tea mix. My recipe varies a little as I experiment with different ingredients, but the results have been great so far. The ladies sure seem to like it!
Here is the list of ingredients I've been using. I don't use all of them all the time and the amounts have been variable as I test things:Aquashield - a liquid compost made of chicken manure. This contains some of the bacteria I'm trying to grow. 1 tsp per batch usually
Mykos - Extreme Gardening mycorizzae. This is the fungus to grow. I use 1/2 - 1 tsp per batch
OG Tea - a powdered mix of bacteria. The brand is something about Sonoma County OG. It was not cheap, but it is a large bag and I only use 1/2 - 1 tsp per batch.
Mollasses - Make sure it's unsulphered. I've varied this from 1 tsp to 4 tsp. 3-4 seems to be optimum so far.
Azomite - Rock powder has trace minerals. I use this about every other batch. 1/2 - 1 tsp
Oyster Shell - lots of Ca. Like Azomite, I use it every other time. 1/2 - 1 tsp.
CaMg - I'm using General Organics brand. Can't recall the amounts, but probably about half the bottle recommendation.
EWC - Earth Worm Castings. Yes, this is worm poop, and it's black gold. I use 1/2 - 1 cup each batch.
Bat Guano - Have Mexican (high N) and Jamaican (high P) varieties. I use 1 - 2 tsp each batch. The P guano started at 0 and has been increasing. I will likely stop using or further reduce the amount of N.
ProTekt - This is a silicon supplement I give to all of my plants until about the last month. I can't recall the amounts. I use the bottle guidlines.
Superthrive - I don't always use this. I'm unsure how much it does, but I have it, so I use it.
1/2 capfulNutes - I haven't added them to the last couple of batches, but I was adding a fairly dilute solution of --- nutes leftover from my prize package. I don't plan to add anymore nutes to my teas. I want to see if they are needed. I don't think so.
I think that's everything I've been using. I plan to add some greensand, but I have plans to visit "the city" anytime soon.
One important thing everyone should know... I think I read this somewhere, but I did test it to see...
Do NOT use tap water to brew your tea. The chlorine will kill what you're trying to grow. If you must use tap water, put the airstone in it and let it bubble with plain water for 24 hours before mixing tea. If you're going this route, it won't make your process any harder. The tea brews for ~24 hours, and I feed my plants every other day. That means one day I brew tea, the other I "serve" the tea. If you have to let your water stand, you would just refill your bucket immediately after "serving". I refill mine the next day as I am using RO. Also, if you're using tap water, I have no idea if, or how much, CaMg you will need.
OK I just did a preview, and this is already longer than most people want to read.
I have also built out my veg area. I have one, of two, 2' x 4' tray up and running. I did take some pictures of this, but haven't gotten them off my phone yet. I built a second DIY aero cloner, and sorta rebuilt the original. They are just using taller totes. In fact, I reused the old lid and just had to put in a larger riser on the old sprayer manifold.
I had a little problem with stuff starting to grow in the veg res. I didn't have the trays full of rock, so the nute solution was getting light on it during flood. That's fixed now, but I have been using some H2O2 to help clean things up. As always I'm running sterile with DM's Zone, so I know I can cure it quickly. The smell just started yesterday morning (the system has been up and running for about 4-5 days), and is already almost gone.
Sorry about no pics, but life has me too busy. In addition to all the activity in the basement, I put in a real veggie garden this year, and we just finished rebuilding our deck out back.
Anyway, keep 'em green everyone
EDIT for addition:
I just realized I left off some details on the tea in case anyone was interested...
I use 5g of RO with the above amounts then dilute into ~10g total.
ronnie6690
Well-Known Member
Hey brother , garden sounds great can't wait to see the pics and check out your led vs hps grow off.
mrrobert420
New Member
Sweet basement!!!!! Awesome!!
- Thread starter
- #785
Well I came to post a couple pics of what I've been doing in the basement, but they are not on my phone now. 
Well my veg area is totally kicking butt now. The next batch is ready go. The old moms in the flowering room are about done. May start harvesting some this weekend. I took pics, but...
I've come up with a plan for how to finish the flowering room. I'm going to run 3 cycles with 8 plants each. These will be big plants though. Each one gets 2' x 2'. I made a little diagram to help myself visualize how to light the space.
Here is the "normal" layout.
Now you're looking at this and thinking, "Hiker, you can't get to the plants in the middle!"
Ahhhh that could be a problem, but I came up with a solution...
Each area in the red boxes is one of the 3 cycles and measures 4'x8'. The 2 cycles on each end will be movable. Since they are 4'x8', I'm going to use a piece of plywood on top of a bunch of marbles. I'll glue down some 2x2 lumber as rails (and perhaps hold marbles in?). This will let me slide the plants on the ends out to the edge of the room and create walkways in the center. Like this...
The lights are not going to move. This will only be while I'm working in there.
I already have risers I put under my buckets, so I will be able to stop using those and get the same benefit and it will be easier to move the individual buckets without their risers.
I have some concerns about the marbles getting stuck on dirt or chips in the concrete floor, but hopefully it will work. maybe I can find some tracks if the marbles don't work. Has anyone ever tried a movable platform for their plants? I'm pretty confident I can pull it off. My aero floor worked awesome. I thought about trying to incorporate that as well, but until I get a clone of me, I don't have time.
Sorry about no bud porn. Some are looking might fine! I'll get some pics up soon.
Well my veg area is totally kicking butt now. The next batch is ready go. The old moms in the flowering room are about done. May start harvesting some this weekend. I took pics, but...
I've come up with a plan for how to finish the flowering room. I'm going to run 3 cycles with 8 plants each. These will be big plants though. Each one gets 2' x 2'. I made a little diagram to help myself visualize how to light the space.
Here is the "normal" layout.
Now you're looking at this and thinking, "Hiker, you can't get to the plants in the middle!"
Ahhhh that could be a problem, but I came up with a solution...
Each area in the red boxes is one of the 3 cycles and measures 4'x8'. The 2 cycles on each end will be movable. Since they are 4'x8', I'm going to use a piece of plywood on top of a bunch of marbles. I'll glue down some 2x2 lumber as rails (and perhaps hold marbles in?). This will let me slide the plants on the ends out to the edge of the room and create walkways in the center. Like this...
The lights are not going to move. This will only be while I'm working in there.
I already have risers I put under my buckets, so I will be able to stop using those and get the same benefit and it will be easier to move the individual buckets without their risers.
I have some concerns about the marbles getting stuck on dirt or chips in the concrete floor, but hopefully it will work. maybe I can find some tracks if the marbles don't work. Has anyone ever tried a movable platform for their plants? I'm pretty confident I can pull it off. My aero floor worked awesome. I thought about trying to incorporate that as well, but until I get a clone of me, I don't have time.
Sorry about no bud porn. Some are looking might fine! I'll get some pics up soon.
I think tracks might be a better glide. I really like the ideas though.
Im watching to see what you come up with..
Good to see you around bro.
Im watching to see what you come up with..
Good to see you around bro.
I must say very creative Hiker. Sounds like a sound plan. I would love to have that kind of space.
- Thread starter
- #788
thanks BAR.
FYI everyone I won't be getting any pics up for awhile. My father has been in the hospital for a week and I'm heading down to CA today I think. It looks like he's not gonna make it.
FYI everyone I won't be getting any pics up for awhile. My father has been in the hospital for a week and I'm heading down to CA today I think. It looks like he's not gonna make it.
- Thread starter
- #789
Thanks Shotta
I'll have to do some research on tracks. I don't think the concrete floor is perflectly flat, so I thought the marbles and wood would allow enough flex to accommodate the variation. Tracks would be nice too, but also would cost more than a couple bags of marbles
Our hearts go out to you and your family Hiker...
Sending you and your family my best hiker.
One love
One love
- Thread starter
- #792
There might be something exciting happening soon!
I've been emailing an LED manufacturer about my project. It's large enough that I can get a pretty good deal.
My biggest issue with lighting has always been that we put these intense single points of light. As I research LEDs, I keep running into the same dilemma. For a target W/sqft, it's always cheaper to put in fewer high powered lights vs many smaller lights. I asked the manufacturer about making a custom version of one of their lights that had a larger case to spread out the individual modules. They quoted me a price for what I wanted that was very good, but then they suggested that the cost difference between my solution, 10 lights with 4 LED modules each, would only be ~$40 cheaper than order 40 single module lights. My preference would always be individual light, but I was assuming I would save money by not order extra cases, connectors, etc.
The finance department and I have met about this. The idea to do the upgrade now came from them. I'm still not 100% decided, but I certainly know which way I'm leaning.
I'm in discussions with a couple other LED companies also. This one just happens to be the one I'm most intrigued by.
I may not run 3 cycles to start. It's not a problem to run the whole area in 2 cycles and then later change it to 3. I'm not going to use the same brand of bucket system, so I'm reluctant to order 2 of an unknown product (yes I'm pretty nervous about the LEDs
).
I still have some interest in soil growing too, so the third cycle may not be hydro. My 2 biggest objections are it's dirty, and more work. I can minimize the work by setting up an automatic feeding system. I've come to realize this isn't that different than a hydro system. It's just a different media for the roots, different plumbing, and some changes to the nutrients. At least I will be able to mix up a week's worth of food at one time. That's the same as the hydro systems. If I can get better results with soil(less) with the ease of hydro, I'm all in.
Anyway, I wanted to share the news as an LED purchase appears to be imminent.
I've been emailing an LED manufacturer about my project. It's large enough that I can get a pretty good deal.
My biggest issue with lighting has always been that we put these intense single points of light. As I research LEDs, I keep running into the same dilemma. For a target W/sqft, it's always cheaper to put in fewer high powered lights vs many smaller lights. I asked the manufacturer about making a custom version of one of their lights that had a larger case to spread out the individual modules. They quoted me a price for what I wanted that was very good, but then they suggested that the cost difference between my solution, 10 lights with 4 LED modules each, would only be ~$40 cheaper than order 40 single module lights. My preference would always be individual light, but I was assuming I would save money by not order extra cases, connectors, etc.
The finance department and I have met about this. The idea to do the upgrade now came from them. I'm still not 100% decided, but I certainly know which way I'm leaning.
I'm in discussions with a couple other LED companies also. This one just happens to be the one I'm most intrigued by.
I may not run 3 cycles to start. It's not a problem to run the whole area in 2 cycles and then later change it to 3. I'm not going to use the same brand of bucket system, so I'm reluctant to order 2 of an unknown product (yes I'm pretty nervous about the LEDs
). I still have some interest in soil growing too, so the third cycle may not be hydro. My 2 biggest objections are it's dirty, and more work. I can minimize the work by setting up an automatic feeding system. I've come to realize this isn't that different than a hydro system. It's just a different media for the roots, different plumbing, and some changes to the nutrients. At least I will be able to mix up a week's worth of food at one time. That's the same as the hydro systems. If I can get better results with soil(less) with the ease of hydro, I'm all in.
Anyway, I wanted to share the news as an LED purchase appears to be imminent.
ronnie6690
Well-Known Member
Hey Hiker brother , sounds like some exciting plans. can't wait for the details
CCOiler
Well-Known Member
Subscribed Hiker.
- Thread starter
- #795
fyi, my father passed away on Tuesday. I'm heading to CA next week.
Changes are still in the works, but nothing will happen until I return.
Thanks for the thoughts and well wishes everyone.
Changes are still in the works, but nothing will happen until I return.
Thanks for the thoughts and well wishes everyone.
ronnie6690
Well-Known Member
fyi, my father passed away on Tuesday. I'm heading to CA next week.
Changes are still in the works, but nothing will happen until I return.
Thanks for the thoughts and well wishes everyone.
Sorry for your loss brother , safe travels
God bless you & your family Hiker. You're in my prayers tonight.
I am sorry for your loss, travel safe and return soon...
Hope your LEDs will use 5 watt or larger diodes. The canopy penetration is terrible with 0.5 or 1 watts.
Too bad about pops.
Too bad about pops.
- Thread starter
- #800
Thank you everyone for the thoughts 
Dad had been in the hospital for more than a week since his heart attack. We had known for several days he would not recover. He passed after about a day pr so in hospice. That helped a little as we were already coming to terms with it.
I feel worse for Spiffy and BID's family
On a happier subject...
I decided this morning to go with the Mars II 400W. I've been working out the order details with Sara for a couple days. Hoping to get everything finalized today.
I'm only going to run 2 'cycles' instead of 3. I may add a third cycle later on, but we think harvesting every 3-4 weeks would be too often. With 2 cycles, we will harvest every 5-6 weeks.
I've also decided to do one side with my bucket system and the other side with a soil type of media. I want to setup some sort of irrigation. I've been hand watering the current batch (retired mothers), and it's too much work. Not that I don't love being down there, I'm just too busy to spend the time needed to water. It is a daily task in late flower! I want to be able to turn on a pump and have it feed while I do other things down there. Basically, I'm buying time. I setup a system for the veggies outside, but those things leak.
Does anyone know of a drip irrigation system that doesn't leak? I haven't looked into it much yet, but I'd prefer not to have to use rigid pipe. If anyone knows of a good resource, I'd love to see a link.
I'm still planning for 24 plants total in the space, so each side will be 12 plants. Each one will have it's very own Mars II 400W. So Jimmy, they are 5W diodes operating at ~2.3W. I've seen lots of growers have good results with these lights. I have one of the 144x3W reflector lamps, and it does a great job. My brain is having a hard time with the idea of a single 400W lamp for each plant. I know they say coverage is 3' x 3', and that the rule of thumb is to take off 1' for LEDs. I'm just struggling to believe a single 400W LED can cover 2'x2'. I stood in the basement last night measuring out spacing. Part of my brain understands it's good coverage, but part of it thinks it's not enough!
Harvest begins tonight @ lights on!
There are 2 or 3 plants that are ready to come down now, and a couple more are close. There are 4 that will be 2-3 weeks behind due to getting very dry at one point early in flower. We will take down as many as we can before we leave. The others should finish up while I'm in CA. I'm a little nervous about leaving them for 6 days, but I tend to stress my plants at the end to increase trich production anyway...
I'll take pics during harvest and post some Monday.
Dad had been in the hospital for more than a week since his heart attack. We had known for several days he would not recover. He passed after about a day pr so in hospice. That helped a little as we were already coming to terms with it.
I feel worse for Spiffy and BID's family
On a happier subject...
I decided this morning to go with the Mars II 400W. I've been working out the order details with Sara for a couple days. Hoping to get everything finalized today.
I'm only going to run 2 'cycles' instead of 3. I may add a third cycle later on, but we think harvesting every 3-4 weeks would be too often. With 2 cycles, we will harvest every 5-6 weeks.
I've also decided to do one side with my bucket system and the other side with a soil type of media. I want to setup some sort of irrigation. I've been hand watering the current batch (retired mothers), and it's too much work. Not that I don't love being down there, I'm just too busy to spend the time needed to water. It is a daily task in late flower! I want to be able to turn on a pump and have it feed while I do other things down there. Basically, I'm buying time. I setup a system for the veggies outside, but those things leak.
Does anyone know of a drip irrigation system that doesn't leak? I haven't looked into it much yet, but I'd prefer not to have to use rigid pipe. If anyone knows of a good resource, I'd love to see a link.
I'm still planning for 24 plants total in the space, so each side will be 12 plants. Each one will have it's very own Mars II 400W. So Jimmy, they are 5W diodes operating at ~2.3W. I've seen lots of growers have good results with these lights. I have one of the 144x3W reflector lamps, and it does a great job. My brain is having a hard time with the idea of a single 400W lamp for each plant. I know they say coverage is 3' x 3', and that the rule of thumb is to take off 1' for LEDs.
I'm just struggling to believe a single 400W LED can cover 2'x2'. I stood in the basement last night measuring out spacing. Part of my brain understands it's good coverage, but part of it thinks it's not enough! Harvest begins tonight @ lights on!
There are 2 or 3 plants that are ready to come down now, and a couple more are close. There are 4 that will be 2-3 weeks behind due to getting very dry at one point early in flower. We will take down as many as we can before we leave. The others should finish up while I'm in CA. I'm a little nervous about leaving them for 6 days, but I tend to stress my plants at the end to increase trich production anyway...
I'll take pics during harvest and post some Monday.