Landrace Genetics 101

[Van Stank]

Thats the tough part for us Newbie growers that never had those Landrace strains. How do we even know we are getting what they say we are getting. You could give me a Landrace 'X' beans and I could grow it out and never know it knock off.

I trust certain members on here that have first hand knowledge of those strains and who endorse certain seed banks. Ace might be a little higher priced (but very reasonable when compared to many of the current breeders) but I have higher levels of confidence that I am getting what I think I am getting.

 

[Pennywise]

Same here, Ace is using the old strains from Cannabiogen. Those strains were pretty well documented. So far the strains I’ve grown from Ace appear to be legit. I have old timers Haze which is supposed to be from a UK grower who has kept the original haze pure. When I grow that one out we’ll see how legit it is. Haze should be rather distinct.

 

[Tomster420]

How is dutch passion's Durban Poison @Van Stank? I still want to try some Seeds of Africa beans but I'll also be getting something from Ace/Cannabiogen/RSC/USC. I can't help myself with all this choice, i'm like a kid collecting pokemon cards all over again haha

 

[Tomster420]

Same here, Ace is using the old strains from Cannabiogen. Those strains were pretty well documented. So far the strains I’ve grown from Ace appear to be legit. I have old timers Haze which is supposed to be from a UK grower who has kept the original haze pure. When I grow that one out we’ll see how legit it is. Haze should be rather distinct.

I don't doubt Ace's legit status. Just a bit too pricy for me to justify at the moment without pissing my partner off lol

 

[Tomster420]

I'm also quite interested in Central/South American landraces like Colombian gold/red etc (especially colombian since a good portion of my heritage is there). Sorry about all the questions/interest but it just gets me so excited!

 

[Pennywise]

Colombian is harder to source at the moment, Snow High seeds have some hybrids using legit Colombian genetics. May be worth looking at.

 

[Tomster420]

Thanks i'll check them out I've heard good things about world of seeds and they have a colombian gold

 

[Pennywise]

Yes but it finishes in 10 weeks, that makes me suspect.

 

[Van Stank]

How is dutch passion's Durban Poison @Van Stank? I still want to try some Seeds of Africa beans but I'll also be getting something from Ace/Cannabiogen/RSC/USC. I can't help myself with all this choice, i'm like a kid collecting pokemon cards all over again haha

I love it, but again I don't have a baseline of what a real true Landrace version of the strain is supposed to taste like. It has had some Afghani worked into I believe but I like the high none the less. I am low on it so I have been considering popping some of Cannabiogen. I also have a couple other breeders versions but I think most of them are probably more like Dutch Passions version if I had to guess.

 

[Pennywise]

Van, you have the Ace/Cannabiogen Durban Poison?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thats the tough part for us Newbie growers that never had those Landrace strains. How do we even know we are getting what they say we are getting. You could give me a Landrace 'X' beans and I could grow it out and never know it knock off.

I trust certain members on here that have first hand knowledge of those strains and who endorse certain seed banks. Ace might be a little higher priced (but very reasonable when compared to many of the current breeders) but I have higher levels of confidence that I am getting what I think I am getting.

I’m growing an Ace Ethiopian at the moment and I was reading something the guy at Ace wrote about it. It got me thinking also about what Tortured Soul was saying -about how he read a comment somewhere that the Mama Thai strain might be crossed with a Skunk.

Thai weed is pretty homogenous for the most part- or at least that was my experience smoking my way around the country for a few years. It all seemed like Thai. And it also seemed just like the Thai weed that we used to get in BC before I ever went there. It seems like a pretty well defined landrace.

I’d think that in some of these cases it would be possible to sniff out these genetics with lab tests and get a pretty good idea if it’s a true landrace or if it’s been stepped on. I don't know any way to get my bud lab tested in Canada at the moment, but it seems like the idea at least has potential if someone really wants to know what they’re growing.

For example here’s part of that Ace blurb about the Ethiopian.

...:Thanks to all this recent work, ACE Seeds finally offers a true pure landrace sativa from Ethiopia, with the best characteristics offered by these sativas, but improving and refining them (greatly reducing hermaphrodite tendencies and at the same time by selecting the best individuals with higher THC content and terpenes).

The results of the cannabinoid and terpene analyzes performed by ACE Seeds with our best ethiopian parental plants, scientifically shown that the ethiopian sativa we offer produces moderate / high THC content (for a pure landrace sativa) of around 10 % of THC, without CBD, which produces an almost pure THC ratio. Certain amounts of CBG have also been found in this ethiopian sativa. The terpenes consistently found in the Ethiopian are alpha pinene, beta pinene, beta myrcene, trans ocimene, beta caryophyllene, alpha humelene, with variations in d limonene and trans nerolidol among different individuals of the same variety.
ACE Seeds has also shared genetic material from this ethiopian sativa with the US Phylos laboratory to perform genetic tests in order to obtain more information about the origins and genetic relationships of this ethiopian sativa with other african sativa varieties. Phylos genetic study has shown that our ethiopian sativa has a unique genotype (no genetic contamination or influence of modern western genetics), showing some kinship with other african sativas: mainly from Angola, Malawi, Kenya, Ghana....

 

[Pennywise]

yes I don’t remember much variation in Thai weed from the 70’s. Thai was pretty much Thai so should be easy to tell the real deal from a stepped on hybrid. So many of the Landrace Sativas went 16-20+ weeks in flower so if you find them maturing in 12 weeks I’d be suspect.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I suppose that’s true. Lots of the available sativa alleged landrace strains seem to have been selected down to around 14 weeks or so. Most of the Ace strains finish in 14 weeks in my grow under 11/13 lighting. But chopping off another two weeks seems like it wouldn’t be that easy, and Mama Thai definitely was finished in 12. If I let it go past that I’d start to get reveg symptoms and the bud would go downhill.
I guess in the end, outside of the issue of whether it’s a true Thai landrace, I was happy with the high- it just seems like Thai to me. I can’t detect any trace of the dreaded skunk/indica in the effect. So I can recommend it based on that.
If it was a mislabelled scam and a cross with skunk -I think they would have been way better to just label it as a new strain with a newfangled name instead of flogging it as a landrace. They might have sold more of it too. The masses don’t want landraces. I’m the only guy I’ve ever met who grows Mama Thai.

 

[Graytail]

Earlier in the thread, there are some pictures and discussion about That Stick, and I was surprised to learn that there was another type of Thai that came after the skinny gold sticks. These were darker and the buds looked thicker, more like Colombian Gold. I wonder if that Thai wasn't an earlier finisher ... you could breed to that and still keep the right high.

And landrace stands will conform to local conditions, like total seasonal sunlight, depth of the rainy season, etc. Especially in equatorial climates where daylight barely changes, different stands of the same chemovar will bloom in different months, depending on local conditions (hillside, valley, etc).

But that flexibility in expression would be from environment, not genetics. Hmm.

... dunno ...

I suppose if you start with 100+ plants, you'd probably find enough fast ones to breed to each other ... repeat ... repeat ...

I had Mama Thai on my list for a long time, in fact I remember you praising it at the time, but I never pulled the trigger - was more interested in the American strains at the time.




[Edit] One of these days, someone will write a definitive history of cannabis distribution across the globe. We're accumulating DNA samples at a pretty good clip now. That'd be a fascinating read.

And another thing ... what happens in a stand of hemp, for sail and rope making? They took that stuff with them everywhere. Do high THC phenos pop out of hemp stands? Do some hemp stands become THC potent all by themselves? That would explain a LOT.

Also, indica plants wouldn't be of much use for fiber, would they? How/why did they evolve? For some other reason?

 

[Pennywise]

Interesting questions, I’m sure environment plays a big part in it. Hawaiian strains grow in very specific environments and if you grow them anywhere else they do change aroma, taste and in effects. Would be worth researching.

 

[GrizzWald]

Ace are known to changed status on some strains... A few have been mislabbelled and sold, only to be changed after harvests. ITS a cold World out there. Sometimes I think I'm getting a little frosty myself...

 

[GrizzWald]

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#12
04-12-2007, 02:22 PM
JessE
Guest

Posts: n/a

Nice plants Thorax,
Where did you this Thai? Is it related to vision creators Thai that showed sex in two weeks? What are the expected flowering times on this particular variety? Im just curious, because like most of us here..........I know the legend of Thai and its not often someone claims to have the real deal. So what else can you tell us about it? How far back in time can you trace its lineage? Expected yields?


Thanks mate, looks great

JessE
#13
06-11-2007, 10:42 PM
wisp
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: taffy land
Posts: 210

Thai
Seedsman as just got a thai strain out!
And also where I got my G13skunk for a great £35

Their sold as Mama thai
Breed by reef supposed tobe 11 wk thai?
#14
06-12-2007, 01:38 AM
hempy
Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by wisp
Seedsman as just got a thai strain out!
And also where I got my G13skunk for a great £35

Their sold as Mama thai
Breed by reef supposed tobe 11 wk thai?
hiya wisp im no expert but i have grown out a lot of thia sats in my time and no thia sativa came in at 11 weeks of flower , there are thia sativas that will not even sex in 10 weeks of flower so my advice to you is if any ones claiming to have a thia line that comes in any time under 16 weeks look at it as a thia hybreed .
#15
06-17-2007, 02:44 PM
wisp
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: taffy land
Posts: 210

Quote:
Originally Posted by hempy
hiya wisp im no expert but i have grown out a lot of thia sats in my time and no thia sativa came in at 11 weeks of flower , there are thia sativas that will not even sex in 10 weeks of flower so my advice to you is if any ones claiming to have a thia line that comes in any time under 16 weeks look at it as a thia hybreed .
The thai I own does about 22 weeks!
I did say They say 11 wks I cant see any thai being 11 weeks and 100% sativa!
#16
07-07-2007, 12:11 PM
shantibaba
Breeder and moderator

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,414

Hi All

if the Sativa is as pure as can be, it will not be finished before 16 weeks. If however you go through finding something at 14 weeks and clone it, the clone could have a chance to be completed maybe 2 weeks earlier if the plant reached some sort of hormonal maturity during the vegetative cycle...all the best Sb
__________________
ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ-ψ

"Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner." -Lao Tzu

all the best,
Shantibaba

 

[GrizzWald]

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Does anybody know Thorax and did he do anything?
#1

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04-11-2007, 06:53 AM
Thorax
Guest


Request for Shanti
Hey bro, I have a special request and I dunno, but hope that you can pull it out of your magic hat.

Is there any way you can get a reasonable thai strain out to the masses, even if a limited edition type thing ?
Kids today have no clue about 6 hour highs and that special morphine groove type high it gives...and it'd sure be nice if they could experience it first hand.
I really think the med users would dig it too.

I have no idea if you have access to parent stock as I don't ever recall you mentioning it, I know DJ has it but won't release it. I asked him

I do have some viable stock from Ko Kut if that might be of assistance...in fact, I just smoked some and that's probably the motivator for the request (silly stoner, what was I thinking?).
Mildly floral with a piss kind of aftertone to the smell, tastes decent enough, like an unusual chinese 5 spice blend (cinnamon-clove-anise type stuff).
I have yet to smoke anything that is more brutally powerful without being paranoia inducing. I have a feeling you know exactly what I mean.

C'mon bud, you can do it


#6
04-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Thorax
Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska
Nice thai shots Thorax.

Is it available through banks, or just happened upon it kinda thing? A name would be appreciated

Alaska
To my knowledge it is not available anywhere for any price, thats why I'm asking is Shanti can/will.

Name, Thai.
It doesn't get much simpler than that eh ?

I have a true chocolate from the late 70's I have kept around in clone form, but I rarely grow one out since it's such a PITA trying to work it into my smaller space...it goes monstrous.
I usually veg it to about 10-12 inches, flip it to 10 on 14 off lighting, wait untill it's about 4 foot (say 2-3 weeks) and lop off the top ½ of the plant to try and keep her in check.
It will easily do 15-20 foot tall +++ outdoors and finishes in mid December (thank god for socal weather).
It is phenominal breeding stock, anything that gets near her becomes much more potent.

I have the aforementioned ones from Ko Kut (an island off south east Thailand), I have another from Nong Khai right on the Nahm border and the chocolate that am told is from Nan but I cannot verify that.

Surprisingly they are all quite similar in structure but have different smells and tastes.

Hope that helps.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I can’t detect any trace of the dreaded skunk/indica in the effect.

Remember, Skunk#1 is not an indica, it's a sativa-leaning hybrid. Or should be, I guess there are more versions of that than White Widow , and a lot of the not-so-much attempts have been commercial successes. But wasn't keeping as many positive sativa traits as possible the entire point of that one, lol? Everyone was smoking "southern imports" at the time and folks wanted to be able to grow - and finish - them. It's got Acapulco Gold and Columbian Gold in it, too.

 

[Tomster420]

I've grown mama thai before. I traded my LOS recipe for a MT seed (i believe it was the seedsman version) and i must say it was some very nice smoke. Lemon/dog shit tasting and strong to the boot! It seems like if i want true landrace sativa/indica i'll need to do some more research. I don't want to be screwed over and get some modernized version of what i want to experience. I think the Real seed company has what would be called the closest thing to true landraces? Where is conrad in all this chatter