Goodnight to you Maharaja John
KingJohnC's 400 Watt LA Confidential Seed Cabinet Soil Indoor Grow Journal
- Thread starter KingJohnC
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #102
i always appreciate when someone likes or reps one of my posts, thank you.
Ok KING, I Am Here Saying Hello, And To Wish You A Happy Belated Canada Day, On Our Nations B-Day!!! Seems A Little Absurd, But it Is Truly Meant WELL!!! My Comp Is All Messed Up, I Can Barely Get To This Site, And Cannot Give REPS,LIKES Or Use My Smilies, As You Know Already. I Use Firefox As My Server, But Not Sure How Easy/Hard, And What Else Will Happen to My Computer If I Try?!? OH WELL, Take Care, SER!!! SINCERELY, JAMESTHEGREEN.
You have a very nice thought out setup KingJohnC and the girl is looking really good. Reps coming at you for what looks like it's going to be great grow. 
smoketheherb
Active Member
very nice setup man. Loving the cab, someday I hope to have something similar. Subbed
Alkhemist
Well-Known Member
heya KingJ,
i'd be interested to see your results with silver thiosulphate solution as i will be using over the next 6 months once i get my mother/cloning space organized and source a local supply of sodium thiosulphate as our local company doesnt stock it anymore :-/ i was originally going to go with Giberellic acid(=GA-3) to force the female plant to produce male flowers with female chromosomes... but soma suggested it was pretty harsh on the plant and recommended to simply go with STS instead, which is what im going to do.. best of luck with your experiments with STS KingJ, will you be making your own with SN and ST?? or buying a pre-made formula?? also if you had a plan of when you would implement its application? at start of bloom period im guessing...
all the best king! /|\
i'd be interested to see your results with silver thiosulphate solution as i will be using over the next 6 months once i get my mother/cloning space organized and source a local supply of sodium thiosulphate as our local company doesnt stock it anymore :-/ i was originally going to go with Giberellic acid(=GA-3) to force the female plant to produce male flowers with female chromosomes... but soma suggested it was pretty harsh on the plant and recommended to simply go with STS instead, which is what im going to do.. best of luck with your experiments with STS KingJ, will you be making your own with SN and ST?? or buying a pre-made formula?? also if you had a plan of when you would implement its application? at start of bloom period im guessing...
all the best king! /|\
- Thread starter
- #107
I have silver nitrate and sodium thiosulfate to make a Silver Thiosulfate solution. I believe the best time to use the Silver Thiosulfate solution would be 1-2 weeks into flower i believe to ensure enough pistil development.
Alkhemist
Well-Known Member
i dont want to repeat information we already know BUT im not sure exactly what you mean mc..
a female plant can be forced to produce male flowers(using hormone applications(=Auxin, Ethylene-feminizing effects; gibberellins and cytokinins-masculinizing effect) or colloidal silver/silver nitrate x sodium thiosulphate-STS) .. maybe this is the difference?? this is certainly something that is unique to the dioecious species. we are seeking to produce male flowers.. which obviously produce pollen but with the fem chromosomes.
the theory is by forcing the female plant to produce male flowers it will maintain the female chromosomes(=female plant) allowing for a cross with another female plant.. the result of which is of course the production of feminized seeds.. this can obviously happen also by leaving a plant to go overly long in its late flower stage whereby its turns, in part atleast, hermaphrodite.
this is a tricky area to be sure.. even though cannabis was one of the first species to be karyotyped, it is still debated by many botanists and biologists as to exactly which sex determinants are utilized by the plant as the karyotyping was formulated years ago and it appears to be shown that cannabis utilizes an X:A system of sex determination(as opposed to the outdated model of X:Y determination).. since then it has been developed to include X:'autosome dosage type' because there are infact a number of sex determination models- including of course environmental determinants.
at the end of the day though, it comes down to the fact that formulations such as colloidal silver and STS work, as do the plant hormones mentioned above.. this is a fascinating subject.. we have only had the technology to create feminized seeds since the late 90's thanks to the 'dutch passion' company.. so there is still alot of developments to be made in this area
the stabilization of a plants genetics are so varied.. if cross breeding f1's(="true breeds") for example, you can expect a far greater success with genetic stabilization than with plants taken from two completely different genetic pools(=hybridization), which will require quite a bit of 'inbreeding' to refine the genotype to express the pheno traits one is aiming for. finding perfect matches will only happen through cloning though.. not through seeds, so if someone was wanting to aim for finding perfect matches for their own breeding purposes you would do well to go with clones as parents and go from there.
my 2 cents worth!
peace y'all /|\
Alkhemist
Well-Known Member
sounds like a solid plan... i was extremely put out when i found my local chem supply store no longer stocked sodium thiosulphate.. so much easier when i can just pop into the store as opposed to courier.. i'm hoping they restock by the time i have my breeding area set up over the nxt few months tho, otherwise i may have to go with a GA-3 formulation
/|\
i think he meant more along the lines of you cant get male pollen from female plant, i think he knows its fem polllen,
i use late flowering idea and its worked well so far, like you mention above i used clones, i kept picking the best plant our of each grow i did, one that produced huge buds and one that produced heavy trich levels, i kept finding the best of each grow and clone it, then that would replace the previous clone, in the end i had 2 clones that i kept due to how well they produced, i crossed these 2 with late flowering pollen and the seeds it produced are stable and give the same results each time its grown,
im told by a top grower that the first cross you make will produce stable strain, its when you back cross to perfect the strain that different traits will grow out, then you need to work with the best of each seed and cross them back until you get the exact traits your looking for, so that would take many generations to get right, but for a basic cross then crossing just 2 plants will produce pretty stable results,
i used fem pollen on 3 plants, each set of seeds grown produce stable results and all have been fem.
the only issue i had was when i forced a plant to hermie early in flower using light stress, i got the pollen and put this on a plant, i grew out several seeds and they all went hermie at the same age as the mother plant i got pollen from, not sure why but maybe i did it to early in flower, i know the hermie flowers looked more like male flowers than the banana pollen sacs i have since been using.
does anyone have any idea what i end up with if i cross a regular fem with an auto fem, i just put some fem pollen on an auto purple cheese, the bud is now bursting with seeds and will need to catch the seeds as they will fall out the buds before plants is harvested, just wondered what % would be auto, im told its around a 5th but i cant seem to find any real info on this,
cant wait to see how this grow goes, ive been interested in the chemical idea for a while as it can be used early in flower.
i use late flowering idea and its worked well so far, like you mention above i used clones, i kept picking the best plant our of each grow i did, one that produced huge buds and one that produced heavy trich levels, i kept finding the best of each grow and clone it, then that would replace the previous clone, in the end i had 2 clones that i kept due to how well they produced, i crossed these 2 with late flowering pollen and the seeds it produced are stable and give the same results each time its grown,
im told by a top grower that the first cross you make will produce stable strain, its when you back cross to perfect the strain that different traits will grow out, then you need to work with the best of each seed and cross them back until you get the exact traits your looking for, so that would take many generations to get right, but for a basic cross then crossing just 2 plants will produce pretty stable results,
i used fem pollen on 3 plants, each set of seeds grown produce stable results and all have been fem.
the only issue i had was when i forced a plant to hermie early in flower using light stress, i got the pollen and put this on a plant, i grew out several seeds and they all went hermie at the same age as the mother plant i got pollen from, not sure why but maybe i did it to early in flower, i know the hermie flowers looked more like male flowers than the banana pollen sacs i have since been using.
does anyone have any idea what i end up with if i cross a regular fem with an auto fem, i just put some fem pollen on an auto purple cheese, the bud is now bursting with seeds and will need to catch the seeds as they will fall out the buds before plants is harvested, just wondered what % would be auto, im told its around a 5th but i cant seem to find any real info on this,
cant wait to see how this grow goes, ive been interested in the chemical idea for a while as it can be used early in flower.
invi
New Member
Nice info with the first cross! Brings breeding a bit closer as a realistic possibility.
Thanks!
Thanks!
cool no worries, i wasnt sure how it worked and thought id end up with mixed results from the seeds, but when i grew my seeds out my plants grew the same and produced the same buds, then i spoke with another top grower and he said the first cross will produce stable results, its when you back cross to get the traits you want that you get mixed results, then it takes many grows to get the exact traits you want,
i guess this is what makes some seeds so expensive, its probably taken them many years to back cross to get the exact traits they want,
i guess this is what makes some seeds so expensive, its probably taken them many years to back cross to get the exact traits they want,
Scarfinger68
New Member
So these are what you are talking about? Came in late flower. No balls, just bananas. Harvested 2 days later because I wasn't sure what was happening. But maybe I could have gotten FEM seeds if I let it go??
Post seemed appropriate since we are talking about FEM seeds. Don't mean to hijack the thread KingJohnC
jamaica seeds rep assures me nanners are infertile. he said check humidity
that looks like some FIRE. she is just starting to amber out hard now i bet..all pistils are oranged. good smoke, think to flush one more time and pull soon!
it looks a lot like my thc bomb flower..mine is just ulgier cause it was hurt for sometime in its life
that looks like some FIRE. she is just starting to amber out hard now i bet..all pistils are oranged. good smoke, think to flush one more time and pull soon!
it looks a lot like my thc bomb flower..mine is just ulgier cause it was hurt for sometime in its life
Alkhemist
Well-Known Member
hey don!
you'll have to excuse me, ive spent the afternoon studying for our hort exam and im feeling a little geeky loL..
sure.. i hear ya.. but i believe as breeders we need to collate the essential information which determines effective breeding programs and spare ourselves HUGE amounts of time in our breeding endeavors, which is what i have been trying to do over the last 2 years or so, as a side project/hobby.
at the risk of sounding too pedantic.. we will be doing ourselves a huge favor understanding the microanatomy and physiology of the breeding mechanisms and the sexual determinants to better compliment breeding goals..
one difficulty lies in the fact that cannabis can be dioecious, monoecious or subdioecious.. this complexity makes it quite possible for a female plant to create microgametophytes that are potentially male AND female in potential atleast. good to know about when determining matches for potential parents, this is rather clear in observing hermaphrodites which are female and male(genetically as opposed to enviromentally).
to say that the first cross will be stable i believe is a gross over-simplification of the breeding process that ignores genetic propensities.. sure it will be stable in that it will grow! and show certain characteristics, whether they are what you are looking for or not.. but sure, it will be stable as it is the first cross of those two parents and is what it is. but i can guarantee you, whether it exhibit traits that are what you were aiming to achieve by the initial cross will be pure luck- a veritable genetic lucky dip.
in my communications with a few breeders, Soma being one(specifically concerning his somango and NYD development), i learned it really comes back to the genotypes, whether you are working with true breed parents, stabilized hybrids or simple hybridizing as to genetic stability is VITAL to achieving success with strain stability .. which are quite different, f1's being primarily "true breeds" will produce stable results alot faster than working with hybrids which wont, whether its a first cross or reversed etc- due of course to the HUGE variations in genetics as opposed to the former which are quite pure, just as an example of different approaches to breeding, i find this is kind of essential knowledge when really getting into the nitty gritty of breeding programs.. ' True-breeding marijuana plants will produce true to type if reproduced from their own seeds, so different generations will share similar characteristics. True-breeding strains are either: (1) Pure-breeds: traditional land races that have only interbred with similar strains and so have almost identical genes or (2) Stabilized Hybrids: Hybrids that have been created by breeders but then continually inbred until their marijuana plant characteristics are stabilized from generation to generation. F1 denotes that the seeds or marijuana plants have two true-breeding parents.'. the variations between the above f1's and breeding hybrids will be quite huge and very very different especially when you are trying to aim for certain pheno traits that have appeal. another factor to consider is the simple idea of "sex ratio" where the AMOUNT of pollen being used can dramatically add to the stability or diversity of the breeding program.. ie pollination using a small amount of pollen= greater diversity in phenotype variations= less stability.
sure, we can simply pollinate one of our females with a male that might pop up.. and the girl will produce seeds.. SIMPLE.. but for those that want to seriously get into breeding, create stable strains with solid genetics.. little pheno variation or alot of pheno variation.. and offer it up for sale to public?? it gets a LITTLE more complicated.. integrity is a vital element IMHO.
concerning your addition of the ruderalis "auto" into your genetic pool you can expect somewhere that your plants ability to forgo any dependency on photoperiods will increase and the age/maturity which determines flowering, increase(to state the obvious ;p).. this will vary of course depending on the percentage of ruderalis in your auto and it WILL vary depending on genetics, ive seen 60%indicas and 40% ruderalis.. and 40%indicas with 60% ruderalis... and the age or level of maturity when it triggers flowering will vary also.. the characteristics and pheno variants will or course depend on genetic character traits which will offer differing pheno variations.. you might be able to get that information from the breeder possibly??
all the best. /|\
you'll have to excuse me, ive spent the afternoon studying for our hort exam and im feeling a little geeky loL..
sure.. i hear ya.. but i believe as breeders we need to collate the essential information which determines effective breeding programs and spare ourselves HUGE amounts of time in our breeding endeavors, which is what i have been trying to do over the last 2 years or so, as a side project/hobby.
at the risk of sounding too pedantic.. we will be doing ourselves a huge favor understanding the microanatomy and physiology of the breeding mechanisms and the sexual determinants to better compliment breeding goals..
one difficulty lies in the fact that cannabis can be dioecious, monoecious or subdioecious.. this complexity makes it quite possible for a female plant to create microgametophytes that are potentially male AND female in potential atleast. good to know about when determining matches for potential parents, this is rather clear in observing hermaphrodites which are female and male(genetically as opposed to enviromentally).
to say that the first cross will be stable i believe is a gross over-simplification of the breeding process that ignores genetic propensities.. sure it will be stable in that it will grow! and show certain characteristics, whether they are what you are looking for or not.. but sure, it will be stable as it is the first cross of those two parents and is what it is. but i can guarantee you, whether it exhibit traits that are what you were aiming to achieve by the initial cross will be pure luck- a veritable genetic lucky dip.
in my communications with a few breeders, Soma being one(specifically concerning his somango and NYD development), i learned it really comes back to the genotypes, whether you are working with true breed parents, stabilized hybrids or simple hybridizing as to genetic stability is VITAL to achieving success with strain stability .. which are quite different, f1's being primarily "true breeds" will produce stable results alot faster than working with hybrids which wont, whether its a first cross or reversed etc- due of course to the HUGE variations in genetics as opposed to the former which are quite pure, just as an example of different approaches to breeding, i find this is kind of essential knowledge when really getting into the nitty gritty of breeding programs.. ' True-breeding marijuana plants will produce true to type if reproduced from their own seeds, so different generations will share similar characteristics. True-breeding strains are either: (1) Pure-breeds: traditional land races that have only interbred with similar strains and so have almost identical genes or (2) Stabilized Hybrids: Hybrids that have been created by breeders but then continually inbred until their marijuana plant characteristics are stabilized from generation to generation. F1 denotes that the seeds or marijuana plants have two true-breeding parents.'. the variations between the above f1's and breeding hybrids will be quite huge and very very different especially when you are trying to aim for certain pheno traits that have appeal. another factor to consider is the simple idea of "sex ratio" where the AMOUNT of pollen being used can dramatically add to the stability or diversity of the breeding program.. ie pollination using a small amount of pollen= greater diversity in phenotype variations= less stability.
sure, we can simply pollinate one of our females with a male that might pop up.. and the girl will produce seeds.. SIMPLE.. but for those that want to seriously get into breeding, create stable strains with solid genetics.. little pheno variation or alot of pheno variation.. and offer it up for sale to public?? it gets a LITTLE more complicated.. integrity is a vital element IMHO.
concerning your addition of the ruderalis "auto" into your genetic pool you can expect somewhere that your plants ability to forgo any dependency on photoperiods will increase and the age/maturity which determines flowering, increase(to state the obvious ;p).. this will vary of course depending on the percentage of ruderalis in your auto and it WILL vary depending on genetics, ive seen 60%indicas and 40% ruderalis.. and 40%indicas with 60% ruderalis... and the age or level of maturity when it triggers flowering will vary also.. the characteristics and pheno variants will or course depend on genetic character traits which will offer differing pheno variations.. you might be able to get that information from the breeder possibly??
all the best. /|\
geturgrowon
Well-Known Member
great thread
Medicatetoday
New Member
Now i know what i have on my Dieseltonic is not nanners, it is nothing like that.
Hey Maharaj I guess to all who read this is gonna feel like I am a little thick 
however how do I go about giving reps to people I dont have a clue an I noticed that when I go into my settings I have some from you guys as for how to give them were reps are deserved
must be my dumbest q yet??
however how do I go about giving reps to people I dont have a clue an I noticed that when I go into my settings I have some from you guys as for how to give them were reps are deserved
must be my dumbest q yet??
invi
New Member
Hey Maharaj I guess to all who read this is gonna feel like I am a little thick
however how do I go about giving reps to people I dont have a clue an I noticed that when I go into my settings I have some from you guys as for how to give them were reps are deserved
Each post has some icons at its bottom, right to "blog this post" it's the star icon - you gotta click on that to give reps for that post.