Kali Mist CFL Scrog Grow Journal - 05-19-13

Scarfinger68 said:
It definitely could be a nutrient burn, or low PH, or locked out nutrients, or root bound. It could be definitely one of those... :) Some slight humor there. It is more of an educated guess is how I look at it.

Like a Dr. rules out this and or that by doing test, etc., etc.

If you have only been feeding lightly... Uh oh! I do see some nutrient burnt tips.
-Maybe nutrient burn



Not necessarily. Your flushing salts out but other good stuff can get flushed out also. I think it is good to give a light feeding of 1/4 to 1/2 strength nutrients after a flush.


Good thought. Some strains will react differently to fertilizer strength.



I believe the hardest is PH adjustment. I feel most new growers don't even take it into consideration. Or, they just assume that if the PH is ok before application that the PH of the soil is good after application.

Even organic fertilizers suggest you flush at least once.

Liquid PH tester:

My bet is that it is low PH. Dark yellow is 6.5 (*can be yellow from fertilizer runoff*), orange is 5.0 or less. Red is 4.0 or less (if you are using a hydroponics liquid PH tester like I do)

Phosphorus deficiency can appear like a mold at times.
-Maybe a phosphorus deficiency (because you are in flower) cause by low PH? Maybe?
or
-Nutrient burn

Just my thoughts
:goodluck:
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Hi spimp, this is a really well thought out response. major props for taking the time to help out.

Heres what I know. Currently she's Nitrogen, Phosporus, and Magnesium deficient as well as fungus gnats. Previously, She had extremely low PH. There has been a nute burn in the past. There has also been heat stress in the past. Once my seed germinated, instead of transplanting into bigger pots I started her out in 2 gallon pots, my mistake for being lazy and trying to skip transplanting.

Heres what could be going on in addition to Nitrogen Phosphorus and Magnesium deficiency. PH could still be low - True PH Unknown no accurate way to measure it without clear water using my test kit, I'm waiting for my new PH test strips to come in. Root bound, possible but I dont think so and Nute burn, unsure but I dont think its this either.

Heres the kicker, if this is still ongoing nute burn in addition to having burnt leaf tips all over my grow why is this new problem which just appeared 48 hours ago only effecting 5 tiny bud leaves on 1 top out of 64 tops. Also the nute burn (burnt) the tips of all the leaves (dry and crispy) The new symptom still has all the plant moisture retained within the leaf itself but is discolored and did not start at the leaf tip. It is now spreading to a 6th leaf this time a small fan leaf, its a small dot effecting the side of the fan leaf. I'll get a picture but it may not show up. I also want to point out that all 5 of my plants are on the exact same feeding schedule with exactly the same strength nutes. Only these 2 plants are showing burns and symptoms, what is different is all the heavy flushing these 2 plants have been receiving lately to correct PH and nute burns.

My educated guess says deficiency, maybe phosphorus. but again I wonder... why only 5 small bud leaves and why does it look so different from other areas where burns and deficiencies are present? I would think this would start popping up everywhere if its a burn or deficiency.

IMG_597211.JPG


The dark blue circle shows the new Symptom, I would like everyone to note the blue circled leaf tips are not burnt or brown in any way which leads me to rule out nute burn since the older brown leaf tips are not progressing further down the leaf after identifying it at least a week ago. the light blue circle shows where the symptomatic leaf used to be that I cut off. The Red circle shows the burnt leaf tips (this is old news). The Purple circle shows where this symptom is spreading to.

I guess if a few more people agree its a burn or deficiency I'll just assume its that as well and move on.
 
I'm gonna pull up all my records of when problems started happening, I would like to see what happened in a clean format to see just where and how things went wrong.

7-02-13

The first signs of flowers appeared 3 days ago 07-02-13. I flushed out the soil to remove excessive nitrogen in hopes this would slow down the stretching.
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Looking back on things, flushing to remove nitrogen was a bad move. The following weeks is where I start making a series of mistakes. I started my new miracle grow flowering formula and also when I attempt to work my way to full strength.


Kali Mist Flower Day 8 ....... Total Days 52 - 7-8-13


"I'm watering the girls with straight water for a week or so. The last 2 watering cycles had intense dark yellow/orange colored run off, had me worried there might be excessive nutes in the soil. Plant is fine though no burns at all."
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This is where the root of all my problems begins. However no symptoms present themselves in the plants for an additional 1-2 weeks.


Work in Progress - still updating
 
Hey Crimbo!!

I don't know who came up w/ that, but it's pure 420 gold. Looks like a combo of slight burn and P deficiency or a combination of several deficiencies. It's normal for some deficiency to show late into flowering. The plants blow through insane amounts of P and K now. If memory serves me well (it doesnt always) you've been flushing like an inmate before a contraband check too. That combined w/ some of the other issues experienced here will do it!

You shouldn't have too much longer to go--a few weeks at most. Don't stress out, I've seen it much worse before the finish line. If it was my grow I would just ensure that my Ph readings remain stable, continue a light feed schedule, get to your flush week and then finish up w/ plain water and molasses.

As for the runoff water color, mine usually looks like a nasty tea or some drunkard's piss so I wouldnt worry so long as the Ph reading is good. The leaves will likely continue to show symptoms of deficiency and even start dieing as all the remaining nutrients are used up in the flowers.
 
Gadfly said:
Hey Crimbo!!

I don't know who came up w/ that, but it's pure 420 gold. Looks like a combo of slight burn and P deficiency or a combination of several deficiencies. It's normal for some deficiency to show late into flowering. The plants blow through insane amounts of P and K now. If memory serves me well (it doesnt always) you've been flushing like an inmate before a contraband check too. That combined w/ some of the other issues experienced here will do it!

You shouldn't have too much longer to go--a few weeks at most. Don't stress out, I've seen it much worse before the finish line. If it was my grow I would just ensure that my Ph readings remain stable, continue a light feed schedule, get to your flush week and then finish up w/ plain water and molasses.

As for the runoff water color, mine usually looks like a nasty tea or some drunkard's piss so I wouldnt worry so long as the Ph reading is good. The leaves will likely continue to show symptoms of deficiency and even start dieing as all the remaining nutrients are used up in the flowers.
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Now that sounds like sound advice wrapped with experience. :thumb:

If memory serves me well (it doesn't always) you've been flushing like an inmate before a contraband check too. That combined w/ some of the other issues experienced here will do it!
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:) :rofl: :clap:

I am giving +reps to Gadfly for sound advice and making me laugh :)
 
I was thinking about this leaf thing...

The one thing I don't have experience with is MOLD. How high is your humidity? How do we know it isn't mold? I am assuming you looked at it through a glass of some sort? Does it look moldy? fungus? If you put peroxide on it do you get a reaction?

I have no idea on MOLD issues so I thought I would just think out load.

:goodluck:
 
Hey Crimson, I'm sure you already know this, but the humidity you want for veg is not what you want for flower. That by no means is necessarily addressing your problem, but could be contributing to it. +reps because I care! Good Weed Day Crimson!
 
Gadfly said:
Hey Crimbo!!

I don't know who came up w/ that, but it's pure 420 gold. Looks like a combo of slight burn and P deficiency or a combination of several deficiencies. It's normal for some deficiency to show late into flowering. The plants blow through insane amounts of P and K now. If memory serves me well (it doesnt always) you've been flushing like an inmate before a contraband check too. That combined w/ some of the other issues experienced here will do it!

You shouldn't have too much longer to go--a few weeks at most. Don't stress out, I've seen it much worse before the finish line. If it was my grow I would just ensure that my Ph readings remain stable, continue a light feed schedule, get to your flush week and then finish up w/ plain water and molasses.

As for the runoff water color, mine usually looks like a nasty tea or some drunkard's piss so I wouldnt worry so long as the Ph reading is good. The leaves will likely continue to show symptoms of deficiency and even start dieing as all the remaining nutrients are used up in the flowers.
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Hi Gadfly, your response makes perfect sense Kudos Gadfly!:bravo::bravo: "mine usually looks like a nasty tea or some drunkard's piss" "you've been flushing like an inmate before a contraband check too." that had me cracking up :rofl: Funny thing is thats the truth too! "I don't know who came up w/ that, but it's pure 420 gold" not sure what you were referring to but if its the diagram I created it illustrate my grow and the problem


I think I got everything figured out now. I found out the maxibloom is really low in PH, didnt even hit me to check its PH after the last flush about a week ago. My PH was all out of whack, I neglected to check it for a week or 2. Now I have a note and blank piece of paper on my door as a reminder to check PH. Also gonna start writing down the PH after every watering period :)

I have a theory why only the 2 scrog plants runoff water color is so dark as well. All the flushing must be causing the soil to seep into the water and dying it dark yellow/brown. I also have a theory why roots appeared in the top layer of soil after I started flushing like it was going out of style. The plant developed air roots.

So all in all Low PH locked out nutrients Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Magnesium (possibly others too) Problem Solved! :thankyou::high-five: Now we can put that experience behind us and move on :)

In case anyone was wondering, the problem with those 5 bud leaves isnt spreading. Still odd its in one spot but thats actually something to be grateful about as opposed to it being everywhere lol
 
Scarfinger68 said:
I was thinking about this leaf thing...

The one thing I don't have experience with is MOLD. How high is your humidity? How do we know it isn't mold? I am assuming you looked at it through a glass of some sort? Does it look moldy? fungus? If you put peroxide on it do you get a reaction?

I have no idea on MOLD issues so I thought I would just think out load.
Click to expand...


Hi scarfinger, thank you for brainstorming. Thoughts, advice, or anything really is always appreciated in this journal. No mold in my grow :)


DharmaBud said:
Hey Crimson, I'm sure you already know this, but the humidity you want for veg is not what you want for flower. That by no means is necessarily addressing your problem, but could be contributing to it. +reps because I care! Good Weed Day Crimson!
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Thanks for sharing Jeff. RH is usually around 20-40%. On a humid day I dont think even my dehumidifier would help lol. Thankfully my apt air is dry
 
Hi guys, I've been to busy to take or post up pics. I thought I'd share with everyone that the plants health and size is pretty much the same as last week. The only real noticeable difference is the yellowing leaves throughout the entire grow probably cause of the nitrogen lockout and the fact the old nutes barely had nitrogen in it.

My top priority right now is controlling the heat buildup in my cabinet and thats exactly what I've been working on. I can't be away from the grow more than 10 hours at a time cause the doors have to be opened and shut at lights on and off.

The dimensions of the new CFL setup is 34" x 11 1/2" x 7". Now due to some of my current CFL size they will not fit inside this new setup (someone should name this) so I bought 18 26w 2700k CFL at 1750 Lumens. I'll probably use 6 30w 6500k CFL 2k Lumens and 16 26w 2700k CFL. This cost me $70 bucks total to build and is still in progress.


Specs:
Dimensions: 34"L x 11 1/2"W x 7"H
Total True Watts 566, Total Lumens 40k.
True Watts Per Square Foot 188w Lumens per square foot, approximately 13,500.
Total Cost to build: $81 Weatherproof sockets $3.75 x 11 = $37.50 6pk GE 26w CFL bulb $11 each 6 pk x 4 packs = $44 (Ecosmart 23w bulbs at homedepot are cheaper yet and 1600Lumens 8pk is around $10) Acrylic - N/A (had spare lying around) Wood N/A White Flat Paint - N/A

Is this something I'd recommend to people? No. not unless your extremely budgeted.
Why? for $80 more you can buy a much more efficient light.
Pro's of building out this light, Maintain a cooler temperature in your grow room. bring your CFL's even closer to plants. Keep in mind this is all theory and has not yet been tested.

The longest part of this project is drilling all the holes for the sockets, my drills batteries cant hang lol.
The hardest part was scoring and trying to snap the acrylic Lengthwise 34" and 2" without clamps and only by myself.

there will be a DIY tutorial upcoming shortly

here are some pics for now

IMG_60072.JPG
IMG_60052.JPG
IMG_60041.JPG
IMG_60021.JPG
IMG_5999.JPG



The setup in my cabinet and the air flow.
-> Cool Box -> 3 1" holes on both sides to allow air to flow in and out -> Air flows through dryer tube -> and exhausted out a carbon Scrubber


CFL_Cool_Box_Theory.png
 
I like the pretty picture but how did u grow those multi colored circles. I joke still a nice looking set up you got there.
 
DharmaBud said:
Ingenuity far outspans money! I couldn't have done what you are doing. I hope it reaps you much better results.
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I'm sure you could have :) We'll see what happens, If I can just close my cabinet doors without the temps hitting 85F I'll be a happy camper 12-15 degrees above ambient. Well back to the project, night jeff! Oh by the way glad your journal is back in your sig :), I couldn't find it before.
 
Looks like the girls packed on some weight last night, was very noticeable when I opened the doors. The girls had to endure 50minutes of 87F temps as I forgot to open the doors this morning, shame on me lol. I'm hoping the new growth means the ph and nute defeciencies are resolved. I watered with 1 1/2 teaspoon maxibloom about a gallon per plant. Seems to have been beneficial so far, today she gets watered with mostly plain water and small amount of maxibloom maybe 1/10th a teaspoon.

The project is taking a lot longer than anticipated,should be done by tonight. I have a good feeling this is gonna work out lovely. I forgot to calculate the wood width into the top board that holds the CFL's so im gonna ghetto style it with some duck tape to seal it. I also decided to use mylar for more reflectivity but also have the white sides in case i want to flip it around. This should be ready to install tonight, but wont have all the cfls installed till tuesday when they arrive in mail.

In order for me to use this new light fixture I have to level out my canopy to be as close to even as possible, otherwise its gonna touch the acrylic.

I have a really good feeling about all this and believe i wont be running into anymore problems throughout the rest of the grow going forward (aside from the pesky fungus gnats.)

Pic updates of the girls will follow sometime today!
 
Glad it goign better Crimson! :Namaste::thumb:
 
Happy Skunkday Crimson:)
Nice to hear things are on the mend:)
 
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