Jon's First Outdoor Grow: Sugar Breath Photoperiod & Strawberry Banana Autoflower

[Jon]

Outdoor? Indoor? Lol!
CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 42

Well, this at one time outdoor grow is finishing up as an indoor grow, at least for now. Happy new year everyone, and to begin the new year I give you the Apple Blossom in her new home, now pretty much fully adjusted. I believe I just witnessed her "adjusting" to an entirely new environment for a couple days. She barely moved for two days, first time yet that's happened. Now this morning she's back in gear and her colas are starting to reach to the sky. Gotta be careful with the 420h in a 3x3. The thing just blows the tent up real easy, lol. But at this point I believe I have it dialed in, and she's in the mid 70s and at around 55-60% Rh. She's on perpetual week four of the @Prescription Blend nutrient feed chart, where she stays until the filp. I have followed their chart to the letter with no adjustments, and no additives of my own. Part of the goal with using the PB nutes is to give their full system a clean shot and see how it goes, no Jon-special brews and such. So far she's loving life.

Here she is from the side and from overhead. Her training is about to kick into gear here over the next two or three weeks.

 

[Jon]

Outdoor? Indoor? Lol!
CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 42

Well, this at one time outdoor grow is finishing up as an indoor grow, at least for now. Happy new year everyone, and to begin the new year I give you the Apple Blossom in her new home, now pretty much fully adjusted. I believe I just witnessed her "adjusting" to an entirely new environment for a couple days. She barely moved for two days, first time yet that's happened. Now this morning she's back in gear and her colas are starting to reach to the sky. Gotta be careful with the 420h in a 3x3. The thing just blows the tent up real easy, lol. But at this point I believe I have it dialed in, and she's in the mid 70s and at around 55-60% Rh. She's on perpetual week four of the @Prescription Blend nutrient feed chart, where she stays until the filp. I have followed their chart to the letter with no adjustments, and no additives of my own. Part of the goal with using the PB nutes is to give their full system a clean shot and see how it goes, no Jon-special brews and such. So far she's loving life.

Here she is from the side and from overhead. Her training is about to kick into gear here over the next two or three weeks.

Morning @Bill284, Happy new year, and let's open this up to a few other tags if anyone wouldn't mind providing a bit of input/opinion? You busy this morning @InTheShed? How about you @Rexer or @StoneOtter? @Emilya, you wanna play? Anyone else I didn't tag, if you have an opinion I'd love to hear it.

I'm loving where I am at with the early beginning training on this plant. But I have one specific question. I have noticed that many folks train in some fashion similar to this up to this point, but that many folks will also remove the first node of two bottom branches. I have not done that yet, but it seems to be kind of logical. At best, they will develop one half decent little bud at the tip and some flarf by the time the branch is a foot long just to reach the outside and there's nothing but the end of the bud. I'm thinking that they are just energy robbers, and that's why you guys who do remove them. So the questions are;
- is this accurate, is that why one removes the first node branches - cuz they produce nothing and rob energy?
- if so, and if I am then to remove them, is this as good a time as any or should I wait for some reason and if so why?
- or, for future reference, should I have done it sooner than now for some reason? Isn't it better to wait until there's a bit of plant above what will be taken, as it is now?

Happy 2022 guys, and thanks for any input. It's much appreciated. Note: if I get no responses, which is quite possible considering it's NY morning, lmao, I'm gonna cut them. Heh.

It seems all the other branches will be quite viable and useful, and I want to keep them for what I'm trying to do with this plant. It's just those little bottom ones.

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

Outdoor? Indoor? Lol!
CJS Apple Blossom
Veg Day 42

Well, this at one time outdoor grow is finishing up as an indoor grow, at least for now. Happy new year everyone, and to begin the new year I give you the Apple Blossom in her new home, now pretty much fully adjusted. I believe I just witnessed her "adjusting" to an entirely new environment for a couple days. She barely moved for two days, first time yet that's happened. Now this morning she's back in gear and her colas are starting to reach to the sky. Gotta be careful with the 420h in a 3x3. The thing just blows the tent up real easy, lol. But at this point I believe I have it dialed in, and she's in the mid 70s and at around 55-60% Rh. She's on perpetual week four of the @Prescription Blend nutrient feed chart, where she stays until the filp. I have followed their chart to the letter with no adjustments, and no additives of my own. Part of the goal with using the PB nutes is to give their full system a clean shot and see how it goes, no Jon-special brews and such. So far she's loving life.

Here she is from the side and from overhead. Her training is about to kick into gear here over the next two or three weeks.

She’s looking simply stunning Jon!

 

[Bill284]

Morning @Bill284, Happy new year, and let's open this up to a few other tags if anyone wouldn't mind providing a bit of input/opinion? You busy this morning @InTheShed? How about you @Rexer or @StoneOtter? @Emilya, you wanna play? Anyone else I didn't tag, if you have an opinion I'd love to hear it.

I'm loving where I am at with the early beginning training on this plant. But I have one specific question. I have noticed that many folks train in some fashion similar to this up to this point, but that many folks will also remove the first node of two bottom branches. I have not done that yet, but it seems to be kind of logical. At best, they will develop one half decent little bud at the tip and some flarf by the time the branch is a foot long just to reach the outside and there's nothing but the end of the bud. I'm thinking that they are just energy robbers, and that's why you guys who do remove them. So the questions are;
- is this accurate, is that why one removes the first node branches - cuz they produce nothing and rob energy?
- if so, and if I am then to remove them, is this as good a time as any or should I wait for some reason and if so why?
- or, for future reference, should I have done it sooner than now for some reason? Isn't it better to wait until there's a bit of plant above what will be taken, as it is now?

Happy 2022 guys, and thanks for any input. It's much appreciated. Note: if I get no responses, which is quite possible considering it's NY morning, lmao, I'm gonna cut them. Heh.

It seems all the other branches will be quite viable and useful, and I want to keep them for what I'm trying to do with this plant. It's just those little bottom ones.

Good morning Jon I'll go first.
When it comes to removing the bottom couple nodes.
I grow 100% clones usually.
Prior to going into the flower room I do a minor clean up underneath.
Anything I remove I use for clones or compost.
Then post strech I do it again.
By the time my clones are ready for flower I have them pretty much trained how I want.
But back to your questions.
1 ) yes people remove them because of location and quality of buds produced.
Energy wasted?
2 ) as long as there are decent roots and she is growing vigorously you can remove them, though I like to wait till the pre flower trim.
3 ) see #2

Hope that helps Amigo

Stay safe
Bill

 

[StoneOtter]

Hey Jon. I stay with keeping them until the third week after flip then take a look and see if they made it to the top. Some real nice colas come from the very first nodes in my garden! Lots of them get cut too, but I don't take them all off as a rule.

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon. I stay with keeping them until the third week after flip then take a look and see if they made it to the top. Some real nice colas come from the very first nodes in my garden! Lots of them get cut too, but I don't take them all off as a rule.

Thanks @StoneOtter and thanks @Bill284. That's good enough for me. Two people whose opinions I respect both said the same thing. Maybe take them, maybe not, but wait and see and do it in the pre flower or third week after flower trim/defol sessions to decide. Is that about what I am hearing between you two? Either way, they stay for now. Thanks!!

Edit: Otter, if you get to hook up a 420h in a 3x3 be careful cuz four feet above the floor at 100% power it rains almost 1700 ppfd down on the plant. I'm getting intimate with the dimmer. And now I see why SOMETIMES you simply gotta use the damn thing. Lol.

 

[Rexer]

Hey Jon

Looks like you got your advice, but I'll add my 2 cents . This is the way I usually do it.

Top above the 4th node, no later than day 21 from sprout (above ground, not seed cracking), and remove nodes 1 & 2. This should leave you with nodes 3 & 4. From there, use LST to keep it growing horizontally. You end up creating bushy plants, which produce a lot of leaves and nodes. This is good. This gives you something to gently snip on!

 

[StoneOtter]

Thanks @StoneOtter and thanks @Bill284. That's good enough for me. Two people whose opinions I respect both said the same thing. Maybe take them, maybe not, but wait and see and do it in the pre flower or third week after flower trim/defol sessions to decide. Is that about what I am hearing between you two? Either way, they stay for now. Thanks!!

Edit: Otter, if you get to hook up a 420h in a 3x3 be careful cuz four feet above the floor at 100% power it rains almost 1700 ppfd down on the plant. I'm getting intimate with the dimmer. And now I see why SOMETIMES you simply gotta use the damn thing. Lol.

WoW! That's crazy good! Four feet though! Yeah that's some light! Hope it's not too much?

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon

Looks like you got your advice, but I'll add my 2 cents . This is the way I usually do it.

Top above the 4th node, no later than day 21 from sprout (above ground, not seed cracking), and remove nodes 1 & 2. This should leave you with nodes 3 & 4. From there, use LST to keep it growing horizontally. You end up creating bushy plants, which produce a lot of leaves and nodes. This is good. This gives you something to gently snip on!

Hey Rex - That is exactly where I topped and in that time frame. But what do you do with the first and second node branches?

EDIT: Duh, I can't read, you said it. You remove them. So the question is when?

 

[Jon]

WoW! That's crazy good! Four feet though! Yeah that's some light! Hope it's not too much?

Nah, I have it dialed in, but in a 3x3 without CO2 I don't see anyone making it work without using the dimmer. Caveat: my tent is only 6' tall, so the light is at about 4'8" above the floor, not 4'. Man it's a lot of power for that size tent, lol. But if you could raise it to say 7 or 8 feet it might work at full power, not sure, and not sure it's worth getting an extender piece for a 3x3 like I did for the 5x5 Gorilla. Considering the outdoor coco girls, designed to STAY outdoors and grown as such, are now in the Gorilla, it's a good thing I had that extra height. I still practically supercropped the colas over to try and minimize the light theft, but I had plenty of room to play with at 8'11" tall. I think I'll probably just use this tent for single autos and one gallon starter pots of vegging photos, both of which can easily live at 20/4. it'll help me with keeping the constant recycling of flowering plants going from there into the Gorilla if I want, and also give me a constant auto stream and allow me to try 1000 different strains. I could easily grow two in there also if I wanted if it was only them. So yeah, no downside at all man. Cram it in there!

 

[Rexer]

Hey Rex - That is exactly where I topped and in that time frame. But what do you do with the first and second node branches?

EDIT: Duh, I can't read, you said it. You remove them. So the question is when?

Oh that's easy, I do it at the same time as I top. Always take into consideration plant health, but if she's healthy- I do it all at once.

 

[Jon]

Oh that's easy, I do it at the same time as I top. Always take into consideration plant health, but if she's healthy- I do it all at once.

Meaning that when you clear the lower canopy you take the 1st and 2nd node plus any garbage and do a complete undercarriage clear all at once if the plant is healthy? And when do you do that?

 

[Rexer]

Meaning that when you clear the lower canopy you take the 1st and 2nd node plus any garbage and do a complete undercarriage clear all at once if the plant is healthy? And when do you do that?

Basically, when I top, I cut at the 4th node, I'll snip the bottom two nodes off. The plants at that point aren't very big yet, and they take it in stride.

Here's when I topped two plants- probably not the best how to, but pictures can go a long way. Hope it helps.

Rex's Sponsored Test Of The ViparSpectra P4000 In A 4x4

 

[Kanno26]

Meaning that when you clear the lower canopy you take the 1st and 2nd node plus any garbage and do a complete undercarriage clear all at once if the plant is healthy? And when do you do that?

Hi @Jon, I wish you happy holidays and good health and a happy and green year 2022 jednohoI a Hulkberry, my leaves started to color like this, did it happen to you too, or do you not know what it could be? Thanks

 

[Jon]

Hi @Jon, I wish you happy holidays and good health and a happy and green year 2022 jednohoI a Hulkberry, my leaves started to color like this, did it happen to you too, or do you not know what it could be? Thanks

Hi @Kanno26, I have you now. Thanks for coming over. So my friend, allow me to set your mind at ease. You have the opposite of a problem. What you have there is a fade. This is what happens to varying degrees depending on several factors including strain, temperature, health, day of flower, etc...towards the end. It means the nutrients are basically starting to be used up so the leaves are beginning to take nutrients from themselves, at least as I understand it. When you see a nice, even yellow like that, along with nice developing colors like you have, in my experience that's a pretty good indicator of a "getting close fade." It can be a gorgeous thing. One thing - it's kind of hard to tell the actual color of green your plants are given the light and photo. The appear healthy, so I am assuming in real life they appear greener than they do in this picture, yes? If that's the case, you're great man. See all the white pistils exploding from your buds? All over them? And at the same time, see the nice colors developing in them? You are, in my opinion, exactly where you should be. Your buds are fattening up and packing on the weight. You have a ways to go yet, but you're in great shape and the buds look like they are developing really well. Now if this is the real life green of the plants, please get another opinion, but I would say that is a bit light on the green side and they could use a little N based nutes. Again, please ask someone else about that assertion, and it only applies if this is real life greens. I suspect they're darker, cuz they look great to me!

So are you still feeding them? If so, what and when and where are you on a feed chart? What day of flower are you on? If you can relate those things it'll help anyone help you a bit more I would think.

EDIT: Is the third picture indicative of the plants actual colors? If that's true, dude, you're rocking. Nice work.

 

[Kanno26]

Hi @Kanno26, I have you now. Thanks for coming over. So my friend, allow me to set your mind at ease. You have the opposite of a problem. What you have there is a fade. This is what happens to varying degrees depending on several factors including strain, temperature, health, day of flower, etc...towards the end. It means the nutrients are basically starting to be used up so the leaves are beginning to take nutrients from themselves, at least as I understand it. When you see a nice, even yellow like that, along with nice developing colors like you have, in my experience that's a pretty good indicator of a "getting close fade." It can be a gorgeous thing. One thing - it's kind of hard to tell the actual color of green your plants are given the light and photo. The appear healthy, so I am assuming in real life they appear greener than they do in this picture, yes? If that's the case, you're great man. See all the white pistils exploding from your buds? All over them? And at the same time, see the nice colors developing in them? You are, in my opinion, exactly where you should be. Your buds are fattening up and packing on the weight. You have a ways to go yet, but you're in great shape and the buds look like they are developing really well. Now if this is the real life green of the plants, please get another opinion, but I would say that is a bit light on the green side and they could use a little N based nutes. Again, please ask someone else about that assertion, and it only applies if this is real life greens. I suspect they're darker, cuz they look great to me!

So are you still feeding them? If so, what and when and where are you on a feed chart? What day of flower are you on? If you can relate those things it'll help anyone help you a bit more I would think.

EDIT: Is the third picture indicative of the plants actual colors? If that's true, dude, you're rocking. Nice work.

Thanks to that, he calmed me down, I'm starting the eighth week of flowering tomorrow, and theoretically they should cover three weeks. And yes, the flowers are much greener than they are in the photo, and it occurs to me that they are doing well, but the color scared me. But so far I have only one, so I didn't know but thanks I'll be watching it

 

[Jon]

Off the Wall Question Guys if Anyone Wishes to Comment...

So I was kiefing some of the dried sugar leaf from the Dos Si Dos. Part of that includes banging the upper tray against the lower one to knock off any stubborn trichomes. In the process of doing this, you end up with a fine dust sometimes on whatever surface you're working on, depending on how broken down the material is. I got a bunch. So collected it, and lo and behold, what I was looking at was an entire huge pile of nothing but red Dos Si Dos hairs. A gigantic, packed bonghit of them, which is a lot of red hairs. I smoked this.

First off, that hit got me incredibly high. Higher than any of the weed has gotten me smoking the buds. I never did this before somehow in all my years of smoking. I was shocked at the power of it. But it also almost INSTANTLY relaxed my back. I literally could feel the muscles relaxing as I put my head down and rode out the hit.

Does anyone have the slightest reference point for whatever it is I'm talking about?

 

[Jon]

Hey @Bill284, want to entertain a training question?

So below is a picture of one of the two offshoot branches from the topping of the plant. The both look exactly like this, and you can see what I'm doing. My question is this: go from the middle towards the end, and the first thing you come to is two sweet growths that are potentially sweet buds. Then there's another pair before the cola. I'm thinking about your plants that are so symmetrical and seem to allow light to every single bud, giving you maybe fewer buds (by design, obviously) but each is a complete monster. Isn't that kind of the idea, besides being pretty, of why you train them that way? So if that's approximately right, think in terms of applying the same idea to this plant. I'm wondering if I should remove the growth between the first two and the cola? That would allow the first two to get bigger, and also create space between buds when they're big. As I continue to grow this branch out in a straight line towards the edge of the pot, this will keep repeating itself. So I guess I'm wondering if you feel there's any wisdom to removing growth spots between growth spots so that I don't end up with what I ended up with in the recently harvested tent grow - way too dense a center of the ring for there to be any value to any of it except for the tops. If it was spaced out in there, with fewer buds, getting better air and light, and having more energy at their disposal due to there being fewer spots it has to be distributed - would that work? Is that anywhere near how you might do this?

Thanks Mucker!!!

 

[Bill284]

Hey @Bill284, want to entertain a training question?

So below is a picture of one of the two offshoot branches from the topping of the plant. The both look exactly like this, and you can see what I'm doing. My question is this: go from the middle towards the end, and the first thing you come to is two sweet growths that are potentially sweet buds. Then there's another pair before the cola. I'm thinking about your plants that are so symmetrical and seem to allow light to every single bud, giving you maybe fewer buds (by design, obviously) but each is a complete monster. Isn't that kind of the idea, besides being pretty, of why you train them that way? So if that's approximately right, think in terms of applying the same idea to this plant. I'm wondering if I should remove the growth between the first two and the cola? That would allow the first two to get bigger, and also create space between buds when they're big. As I continue to grow this branch out in a straight line towards the edge of the pot, this will keep repeating itself. So I guess I'm wondering if you feel there's any wisdom to removing growth spots between growth spots so that I don't end up with what I ended up with in the recently harvested tent grow - way too dense a center of the ring for there to be any value to any of it except for the tops. If it was spaced out in there, with fewer buds, getting better air and light, and having more energy at their disposal due to there being fewer spots it has to be distributed - would that work? Is that anywhere near how you might do this?

Thanks Mucker!!!

It's all logical Captain.
Removing adjacent sites drives more energy to the others.
More space allows for more light penetration also a plus.
It hinges on you veg time and size of colas you want.
You just keep adding veg time though.
Somtimes rock hard 50 cent pieces aren't bad.
Looks great.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Jon]

It's all logical Captain.
Removing adjacent sites drives more energy to the others.
More space allows for more light penetration also a plus.
It hinges on you veg time and size of colas you want.
You just keep adding veg time though.
Somtimes rock hard 50 cent pieces aren't bad.
Looks great.

Stay safe
Bill

Thank you sir! That's kind of what I thought, just keep vegging longer. I'm in no hurry. And yeah, I got a ton of those rock hard 50 cent pieces, especially on the Hulkberry. She's amazing, but every single bud is small except for the four main main cola buds. And those mysteriously went into some jar that said "headstash" on it. I don't mind that, I do mind the corresponding amount of flarf. Also, many of the buds on both the Ghost and the Hulk were purple and colorful up top, and even though they stayed sweet, green on the bottom. As if they were blanketed by the tops and never got as cold as the exposed colas. I don't want this either. Too crowded. So for this plant, let's screw 50 cent pieces. I'm going for more like softballs.