Jon's Experimental Single Sour Apple Autoflower Indoor/Outdoor Sunlight/LED Soil Grow

[Jon]

I would bet on them being female seeds with a strong tendency to hermaphodite, just like their mother.

Yup. That's exactly what I thought. I might plant one at some point just to see just how prone they are and see if it turns on me. I wonder if the changing light sources over pretty much the entire grow was a potential factor? The plant moved a lot, and got light from the sun, blurples, LEDs, a quantum board, and UFO panels at one time or another in it's life. I'm wondering if inconsistency of spectrum might potentially be a factor in a plant going hermie?

 

[Emilya Green]

why yes it can! I have fancy smart light bulbs that let us color our world any color we like. Color drastically can affect our moods and make us see things in a different way... why could it not be the same for plants?

 

[Jon]

why yes it can! I have fancy smart light bulbs that let us color our world any color we like. Color drastically can affect our moods and make us see things in a different way... why could it not be the same for plants?

My logic says the same, although I suspect if I pressed you you could back that up with some science. But of course it makes perfect sense. I will say though that at least in the case of this plant, just looking at the spectrums she got, I mean...full sun is obviously the perfect spectrum, my G8 has an amazing spectrum, and even the quantum board was no slouch in that department - the only what I would describe as "lesser" or "more mediocre" spectrum would be the time she spent under the blurples, ie, about her last three weeks. And most of that was "red light time," so I'm not sure even that spectrum was a compromise. What I'm suggesting is that it isn't as if she went from crap light to good light to crap light. She had good, solid lighting the entire time. Just different lighting. Changing lighting. So perhaps this is more about the concept of consistency of spectrum rather than what type of spectrum? Cuz hell, my first grow the weed turned out amazing despite all my rookie mistakes, and they grew up under JUST the blurples. But it was consistent.

Sidebar: I like to type/write how I talk. That's why I use a lot of contractions and colloquialisms. So often, to stress a word as I would in a natural conversation, I use all caps. But I think all caps is kind of annoying to people sometimes. Hell, it's annoying to ME sometimes. (lol, see what I did there?) So for this post I tried the italics instead. I'm trying to get a handle on what's less annoying. Maybe I should can the visual stress agents altogether and just type in monotone.

 

[Jon]

why yes it can! I have fancy smart light bulbs that let us color our world any color we like. Color drastically can affect our moods and make us see things in a different way... why could it not be the same for plants?

Another sidebar, and if this is too personal just please slap me back and say so. I mean no offense I'm just very curious. I know that often times a blind person's other senses will become more honed and tuned in, I guess due to the loss of one, right? Common knowledge. But is that the case for you as well? Your comment about colors and moods got me thinking about it, and I never wondered or asked before if a person who lost their hearing has a similar response with their other senses as the blind person. If this is the case, do you find yourself more affected by colors and light than perhaps you would be otherwise? (See the brilliant tie in to the actual journal there? Lol)

 

[Jon]

why yes it can! I have fancy smart light bulbs that let us color our world any color we like. Color drastically can affect our moods and make us see things in a different way... why could it not be the same for plants?

And of course I have one more question for you. Heh. My girls have their fifth node out strong and are working on their sixth. It's time to top the Slurricane and the Ghost Train Haze, they are both ready. I'm using UB method, and I'm cool with that. My question is, does it matter where you are in the watering cycle in terms of when you top? Or should I simply top them when they're ready regardless of where I am in watering?

Never thought to ask that one before. Heh.

 

[Emilya Green]

My logic says the same, although I suspect if I pressed you you could back that up with some science. But of course it makes perfect sense. I will say though that at least in the case of this plant, just looking at the spectrums she got, I mean...full sun is obviously the perfect spectrum, my G8 has an amazing spectrum, and even the quantum board was no slouch in that department - the only what I would describe as "lesser" or "more mediocre" spectrum would be the time she spent under the blurples, ie, about her last three weeks. And most of that was "red light time," so I'm not sure even that spectrum was a compromise. What I'm suggesting is that it isn't as if she went from crap light to good light to crap light. She had good, solid lighting the entire time. Just different lighting. Changing lighting. So perhaps this is more about the concept of consistency of spectrum rather than what type of spectrum? Cuz hell, my first grow the weed turned out amazing despite all my rookie mistakes, and they grew up under JUST the blurples. But it was consistent.

Sidebar: I like to type/write how I talk. That's why I use a lot of contractions and colloquialisms. So often, to stress a word as I would in a natural conversation, I use all caps. But I think all caps is kind of annoying to people sometimes. Hell, it's annoying to ME sometimes. (lol, see what I did there?) So for this post I tried the italics instead. I'm trying to get a handle on what's less annoying. Maybe I should can the visual stress agents altogether and just type in monotone.

It seems to me that we are learning that our plants want a full spectrum of light. The amazing thing about our sun is that it gives that full spectrum while varying certain components of it during the day, such as the amount of UV hitting us, based on the sun's angle relative to the atmosphere. I have yet to see a light that will allow me to dial on more UV at high noon and then back it down later, but that day is coming.

So all the other lights were indeed different lighting than that, some drastically. To imagine that our plants, who live and die by the light they receive, didn't notice this... that strikes me as wildly myopic... of course they noticed. And what happens when a plant such as ours, a supersurvivor, senses a drastic change in its environment and it is not yet pollinated so as to continue the species? It self pollinates... that is what a supersurvivor does. At least it only freaked a little bit and you got just a few seeds instead of broadcasting it's stress all over the room. It wasn't complaining too loudly about the changes in lighting... just noted it and did what needed to be done.

Regarding the writing conventions. My editor keeps complaining about my use of "...". I say that it is how I think, cause and effect. It is hard as we are still learning to use the electronic written word as a species to figure out how best to utilize the tools we have at hand, but I DO use caps to emphasize, and my pro enthusiastically endorses my use of underlining and wants me to save my italics for highlighting the new and exotic... and she says that a semicolon can usually replace the ellipses. This is a forum, and the only thing that really annoys me is the all caps thing. That is considered shouting, and shouting to a deaf person is just rude; maybe let's call that a pet peeve.

 

[Jon]

It seems to me that we are learning that our plants want a full spectrum of light. The amazing thing about our sun is that it gives that full spectrum while varying certain components of it during the day, such as the amount of UV hitting us, based on the sun's angle relative to the atmosphere. I have yet to see a light that will allow me to dial on more UV at high noon and then back it down later, but that day is coming.

So all the other lights were indeed different lighting than that, some drastically. To imagine that our plants, who live and die by the light they receive, didn't notice this... that strikes me as wildly myopic... of course they noticed. And what happens when a plant such as ours, a supersurvivor, senses a drastic change in its environment and it is not yet pollinated so as to continue the species? It self pollinates... that is what a supersurvivor does. At least it only freaked a little bit and you got just a few seeds instead of broadcasting it's stress all over the room. It wasn't complaining too loudly about the changes in lighting... just noted it and did what needed to be done.

Regarding the writing conventions. My editor keeps complaining about my use of "...". I say that it is how I think, cause and effect. It is hard as we are still learning to use the electronic written word as a species to figure out how best to utilize the tools we have at hand, but I DO use caps to emphasize, and my pro enthusiastically endorses my use of underlining and wants me to save my italics for highlighting the new and exotic... and she says that a semicolon can usually replace the ellipses. This is a forum, and the only thing that really annoys me is the all caps thing. That is considered shouting, and shouting to a deaf person is just rude; maybe let's call that a pet peeve.

Ha. The info on the lights makes perfect sense. It doesn't matter if it's good light to good light to good light - the plant notices the change. It is about consistency.

Regarding the writing conventions, lmao. See, that's exactly why I asked. The all caps considered shouting is exactly why it was annoying even me. I rarely if ever am shouting, and if so it's highly intentional and there's no doubt about it. So great -- all caps are out. I doubt you're the only person with that particular pet peeve.

One question relating to an earlier comment you made: if the only reason the plant pollinated itself is because it got the differing light sources (I think we can agree on that), then why would that lead to the seeds it created being more "prone" to going hermie? You aren't telling me here about a plant that would have turned had it had a consistent light source start to finish. So why wouldn't the seeds simply be as good as the seeds I paid $110/10 for?

 

[Emilya Green]

Another sidebar, and if this is too personal just please slap me back and say so. I mean no offense I'm just very curious. I know that often times a blind person's other senses will become more honed and tuned in, I guess due to the loss of one, right? Common knowledge. But is that the case for you as well? Your comment about colors and moods got me thinking about it, and I never wondered or asked before if a person who lost their hearing has a similar response with their other senses as the blind person. If this is the case, do you find yourself more affected by colors and light than perhaps you would be otherwise? (See the brilliant tie in to the actual journal there? Lol)

Yes indeed, that is definitely true in my case. My eye doctor remarked one time that it was common for eyesight to tighten up when someone lost their hearing, and my nearsightedness as a kid has reversed and now I barely need glasses. This has been explained by the fact that I use my eyes more than many do, since I am always looking across a room to read lips or studying your face as you talk to me... and did you know that your right eye twitches a bit when you exaggerate? Taste and smell has been noticeably enhanced too. I can smell if someone has been in a room recently or enters without my seeing them. I can taste a prepared dish and tell you pretty accurately what that secret ingredient is and I am pretty good at recognizing wines. Girls are already good at this, but I can see and feel a reaction to many ranges of colors and can tell the difference between many shades that my male friends can not even see. I am not sure when or even if this ability advanced as my deafness progressed after the accident, but I know that I love this new LED light technology that allows so many billions of variants in color... like the other night when we "flavored" the room in monarch butterfly and loved it. That now has a preset.

 

[Jon]

Yes indeed, that is definitely true in my case. My eye doctor remarked one time that it was common for eyesight to tighten up when someone lost their hearing, and my nearsightedness as a kid has reversed and now I barely need glasses. This has been explained by the fact that I use my eyes more than many do, since I am always looking across a room to read lips or studying your face as you talk to me... and did you know that your right eye twitches a bit when you exaggerate? Taste and smell has been noticeably enhanced too. I can smell if someone has been in a room recently or enters without my seeing them. I can taste a prepared dish and tell you pretty accurately what that secret ingredient is and I am pretty good at recognizing wines. Girls are already good at this, but I can see and feel a reaction to many ranges of colors and can tell the difference between many shades that my male friends can not even see. I am not sure when or even if this ability advanced as my deafness progressed after the accident, but I know that I love this new LED light technology that allows so many billions of variants in color... like the other night when we "flavored" the room in monarch butterfly and loved it. That now has a preset.

Wow. Super cool. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[Emilya Green]

One question relating to an earlier comment you made: if the only reason the plant pollinated itself is because it got the differing light sources (I think we can agree on that), then why would that lead to the seeds it created being more "prone" to going hermie? You aren't telling me here about a plant that would have turned had it had a consistent light source start to finish. So why wouldn't the seeds simply be as good as the seeds I paid $110/10 for?

As long as you know the reason it produced the seeds, that isn't a problem then, is it? Congratulations, you have just learned how to get seeds from an expensive feminized plant; just slap her around a bit. Sans the slap, those seeds should be perfectly good.

 

[Emilya Green]

And of course I have one more question for you. Heh. My girls have their fifth node out strong and are working on their sixth. It's time to top the Slurricane and the Ghost Train Haze, they are both ready. I'm using UB method, and I'm cool with that. My question is, does it matter where you are in the watering cycle in terms of when you top? Or should I simply top them when they're ready regardless of where I am in watering?

Never thought to ask that one before. Heh.

Deer: I am going to nibble off this branch if you don't mind.
Plant: I am in the 3rd day of a 4 day watering cycle and the sun is down... could you wait till tomorrow, say around 2pm?

In nature these attacks happen randomly, and the plant has to be ready for it. If it happens during a time of high transpiration vs at night when water uptake is at a minimum... does that matter too?

The sap that rushes in to heal a wound isn't water. It may have been produced with water and the other elements, but the sap is part of the internal fluids that fill the xylem and is there day and night, just watered or no, ready to rush into place if needed. The plant is a closed system and to be able to stand up and send leaves tracking the sun, a good amount of water pressure needs to be built up within the plant. Chop a few leaves in half or make a major cut to the trunk and that pressure rapidly falls until those cuts can be stopped up and every effort is made to make that happen rapidly since nothing else can happen in the plant until it does. So basically, chop when you feel the need. Some wait till a new or waning moon, but I don't think it matters much. The plant can handle it.

 

[Jon]

Deer: I am going to nibble off this branch if you don't mind.
Plant: I am in the 3rd day of a 4 day watering cycle and the sun is down... could you wait till tomorrow, say around 2pm?

In nature these attacks happen randomly, and the plant has to be ready for it. If it happens during a time of high transpiration vs at night when water uptake is at a minimum... does that matter too?

The sap that rushes in to heal a wound isn't water. It may have been produced with water and the other elements, but the sap is part of the internal fluids that fill the xylem and is there day and night, just watered or no, ready to rush into place if needed. The plant is a closed system and to be able to stand up and send leaves tracking the sun, a good amount of water pressure needs to be built up within the plant. Chop a few leaves in half or make a major cut to the trunk and that pressure rapidly falls until those cuts can be stopped up and every effort is made to make that happen rapidly since nothing else can happen in the plant until it does. So basically, chop when you feel the need. Some wait till a new or waning moon, but I don't think it matters much. The plant can handle it.

Alrighty then. I am going to wait on the Hulkberry. For one she's not ready since she started a few days behind the others. But more importantly, she is growing oddly. She's short and squat with basically zero space between nodes, and the leaves on each level are oddly twisted a bit. It looks like she got on a Sit n' Spin and took a long ride. I may not top her at all given her growth pattern so far, we'll see how she looks a few nodes from now. I'll post a couple closeups of her later on when I top and post. Thanks for the help.

 

[Jon]

Sue Anne Final Trim Day
Final Yield
Trimmed Buds


Well, I'm not gonna say I'm not disappointed. Our yield on the big bud Sue Anne Sour Apple autoflower is 30 grams. One ounce and 2 grams. Call it an ounce and an eighth with the little bit I tested. Very low yield. Very disappointing from a yield perspective. Lowest yield I've gotten yet from an autoflower. Yes, the bud looked great. Big, fat, crystalline - and she is. The test buds got me super high. It's going to taste fabulous once it's cured. Already tastes real good and smokes nicely. So from a quality perspective I have zero issues with this weed. It's great. But one ounce and one eighth? That's completely unacceptable going forward. COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. (Caps inserted there on purpose - I AM yelling)

So I'm going to go ahead and say for my own edification that leaving an auto to just grow without training it is NOT going to necessarily give you a bigger or even comparable yield to an auto that you trained to create more bud sites. It might be a real pretty plant and bud that way, but the yield, at least for this plant of this strain the way I grew it, is barely worth the effort or time. I won't let one go without training it again. How many times do you have to repeat an experiment to draw a conclusion? This one was enough for me. I like pretty, good looking buds, but quality being the same I'd rather have ugly buds and more of them. I am very surprised the yield was so low. It sure looked like it was going to be more. This is why I say I suck at estimating my own yield. I thought 2 ounces. I was off by 7 eighths. Not even close.

So you guys do what you need to do. I won't fail to train an auto again. All of the above said, the bottom line for me really is quality, so it's not that big a deal. The quality is very high on this bud. The lesson learned is worth the ounce I didn't yield.

I'll post a smoke report on the buds in the strain reviews in a couple weeks when the bud is cured enough.

Here's the rather disappointing pictures:

 

[Emilya Green]

Sue Anne Final Trim Day
Final Yield
Trimmed Buds


Well, I'm not gonna say I'm not disappointed. Our yield on the big bud Sue Anne Sour Apple autoflower is 30 grams. One ounce and 2 grams. Call it an ounce and an eighth with the little bit I tested. Very low yield. Very disappointing from a yield perspective. Lowest yield I've gotten yet from an autoflower. Yes, the bud looked great. Big, fat, crystalline - and she is. The test buds got me super high. It's going to taste fabulous once it's cured. Already tastes real good and smokes nicely. So from a quality perspective I have zero issues with this weed. It's great. But one ounce and one eighth? That's completely unacceptable going forward. COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE. (Caps inserted there on purpose - I AM yelling)

So I'm going to go ahead and say for my own edification that leaving an auto to just grow without training it is NOT going to necessarily give you a bigger or even comparable yield to an auto that you trained to create more bud sites. It might be a real pretty plant and bud that way, but the yield, at least for this plant of this strain the way I grew it, is barely worth the effort or time. I won't let one go without training it again. How many times do you have to repeat an experiment to draw a conclusion? This one was enough for me. I like pretty, good looking buds, but quality being the same I'd rather have ugly buds and more of them. I am very surprised the yield was so low. It sure looked like it was going to be more. This is why I say I suck at estimating my own yield. I thought 2 ounces. I was off by 7 eighths. Not even close.

So you guys do what you need to do. I won't fail to train an auto again. All of the above said, the bottom line for me really is quality, so it's not that big a deal. The quality is very high on this bud. The lesson learned is worth the ounce I didn't yield.

I'll post a smoke report on the buds in the strain reviews in a couple weeks when the bud is cured enough.

Here's the rather disappointing pictures:

This is one of the main reasons that I don't run autos. I estimate 8 oz dry from each of my 11 plants in about 6 more weeks... and it only took 2 months of veg to prepare for this bloom. It really doesn't take that much longer to run a photoperiod, and the yield just can't be compared. I just don't get autos or why people rave about them.

 

[Jon]

This is one of the main reasons that I don't run autos. I estimate 8 oz dry from each of my 11 plants in about 6 more weeks... and it only took 2 months of veg to prepare for this bloom. It really doesn't take that much longer to run a photoperiod, and the yield just can't be compared. I just don't get autos or why people rave about them.

I'm rapidly coming to feel exactly the same way. Yeah, exactly - that's what I want and expect from this current grow - a half pound per plant. From a strictly cost perspective, this plant was barely worth the electricity it took to grow it. I don't care how good it is. An ounce and an eighth is bullshit no matter how you slice it. I wasted five gallons of soil and bought an unnecessary AirPot (I like the fabric ones just as much, maybe a bit more, I didn't notice any discernible difference between the two), not to mention however much money in nutes...Then there's also the thing that unless you pick the right strains you're rarely going to break 22% on the thc content. I grow high thc strains for a reason. I've picked decent auto strains in that regard, but who cares if it's only an ounce? The pleasure I got from the visual beauty of the plant pales a bit when you end up with an ounce. I have the Chunky in the latest journal to do, and the next Sour Apple behind her as well, already well on their way. I'm going to finish them out and stick with photos after that. Maybe turn the auto rig into a veg/clone station or something.

Now, all that said, an ounce of really good weed with a very interesting terpene profile that's way different than anything I've smoked lately and already tastes and smokes great without a cure doesn't exactly hurt. I will give myself credit for doing a nice job on this plant, and I did learn a lot from it. Not just about yield with respect to training or not, but also about how to grow a deficiency-free plant for an entire grow. Only mistake I made with this girl was leaving her outside for two days when it was too hot, which stopped the moment I saw her leaves starting to curl. Oh, and I suppose the other upside is the nine seeds I have from it. (not, lol) She also will give me her small share of great keefe, which I have a ton of and nothing to do with it besides top bong hits. Need to get a rig and make some hash. I have probably half a pound of keefe, all first pass grade A+. (overall, obviously not from this one plant, lol) Anyway, it is what it is. All things considered it could be worse. The weed could have sucked. It's great. So we'll see if I can make an ounce last around 50 more days. I doubt that on a very high level.

I guess I ought to close this journal out now, right?

 

[Bud Love]

This is one of the main reasons that I don't run autos. I estimate 8 oz dry from each of my 11 plants in about 6 more weeks... and it only took 2 months of veg to prepare for this bloom. It really doesn't take that much longer to run a photoperiod, and the yield just can't be compared. I just don't get autos or why people rave about them.

Hey Jon
Hope your good mate..
I quite like the autos.. I like the fact that the light schedule, if interrupted , won’t bother anything. Also, as I haven’t much space to play with, . It’s easier to get a bit of a perpetual grow on, without having 3 tents running mothers, veg and flower. Although I still haven’t managed it yet
I think I prefer the photos to grow though.. I like a bit more control of the schedule than the autos give..

 

[Jon]

Hey Jon
Hope your good mate..
I quite like the autos.. I like the fact that the light schedule, if interrupted , won’t bother anything. Also, as I haven’t much space to play with, . It’s easier to get a bit of a perpetual grow on, without having 3 tents running mothers, veg and flower. Although I still haven’t managed it yet
I think I prefer the photos to grow though.. I like a bit more control of the schedule than the autos give..

I actually have fun with them too, and I have been thinking I'd use them to fill in the gaps between photo harvests. If I start one every three weeks, I can harvest every three weeks and use the auto rig setup. So I may continue to do that. The ounce and one eighth pissed me off man, I ain't gonna lie. I soured a bit. But watch what I get out of the Chunky auto that is in the new grow. Just transplanted her to a five today.

 

[Emilya Green]

I start a new round in veg right as I start bloom in the other room. Bloom takes 2 months, and presto, the veg rooms are ready to go when they are done. We play musical chairs, transfer from room to room and every 2 months or so, have a harvest. At my present 12 plant rate, I can generate approximately 5lbs dry every 2 months if I want to work that hard. Tell me again what the advantage is to running Autos?

 

[Jon]

I start a new round in veg right as I start bloom in the other room. Bloom takes 2 months, and presto, the veg rooms are ready to go when they are done. We play musical chairs, transfer from room to room and every 2 months or so, have a harvest. At my present 12 plant rate, I can generate approximately 5lbs dry every 2 months if I want to work that hard. Tell me again what the advantage is to running Autos?

Lmao. In my transplant post this morning I blamed you for my developing anti-auto snobbery. Ha! There is no advantage, E. No advantage whatsoever. Unless....you only have one tent and you want to use it for photos. That's my deal now. So while I'm waiting the five damn months for the harvest from the tent, what shall I smoke to avoid the dispensary? Well, if the scrog hadn't gone hermie that question is irrelevant. I'd never see the dispensary again. But with just Sadie and Sue Anne to harvest, I'll be out of weed shortly. The autos are taking generally 75 days on average to finish. It is half the time of the photo harvest. So an advantage is being able to "fill in the gap" of photo harvests with an auto you can grow just about anywhere, even your bathtub. Hell, I'm hoping the Pineapple Express from the last grow will last me until the Sour Apple is adequately cured to smoke at this point, and there's nothing I hate more than putting money in the pockets of the dispensary bloodsuckers. I understand this is a stretch and I'm trying to manufacture something good out of crappy autos. But hey, I have the seeds, I only have one tent. If I thought I could successfully grow a single photo in the auto rig I'd be doing it, but I don't think I can. Too big for the space they'd be in short time. Not to mention I can't adequately control the humidity in that spot, unlike in the tent. So advantages? Minimal at best. But if I'm pulling 2.5 ounces off an auto as I did with a couple of them, that's worth it, no? Obviously the problem is the inconsistency. You have no idea what you can get from an auto really. They're gonna do whatever they're gonna do. But no, I'm not gonna try and put lipstick on a pig for you.

 

[732002]

I like autos outdoors, small 12 week autos are less obvious and you can potentially get
a early summer crop and a fall crop. Or you can grow large sativa autos that take 20+ weeks.
I currently have one that is over 6' and started flowering 5-6 weeks ago, feels more like a early flowering
photo, flowers are not dense so not very impressive to look at but should be mold resistant.