InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time

[InTheShed]

Hi again - I’m here with another question. Man, this season’s events seem to have landed me in a situation of doing nearly everything differently to how I usually do it. I’m having #outofmycomfortzone fatigue. See it’s such that I needed to hashtag it!
I’ve never transplanted - or transferred - such young seedlings but these need root space pronto. Been up 1.5-2days.
Shed, you often mention burying the stem a little. How far is ok with something this size? (Or any size for that matter ...)
Hoping you’re close at hand

I'm at hand but what seedlings are we talking about? 2-day old seedlings? In peat pucks? Do you have any pics?

If my sprouts are really lanky before I pot them I will put them lower in the soil and, depending on how sturdy they look, either bury the bottom something of the stem or just leave the whole peat lower than the surface so I can bury it a few days later once it's grown a bit.

Am I answering your question?

 

[Amy Gardner]

Yes! Thanks

You were so fast you missed my edit where I remenbered the photo!

So how deep?

 

[InTheShed]

Do they have tap roots? I don't see anything coming out of the side yet so if they don' have taps I'd still wait. Otherwise:
top right about an inch down, bottom right about ½ an inch, bottom left as is.

And I always take the wrapping off. No one has ever given me a reason to leave it on.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Yes there is a tap going sideways underneath on one. I’m not keen on that

They’re autos btw.

I really just did this to get them up and then be able to put the gnat nix on top. I’m not at all comfortable with these little seedlings in pucks!

 

[InTheShed]

Nice tap...plant away!

 

[CraZysWeeD]

That's amazing @Brewsterman exactly the same.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Otherwise:
top right about an inch down, bottom right about ½ an inch, bottom left as is.

And I always take the wrapping off. No one has ever given me a reason to leave it on.

Nice tap...plant away!

 

[Heavenly Hybrid]

Hi again - I’m here with another question. Man, this season’s events seem to have landed me in a situation of doing nearly everything differently to how I usually do it. I’m having #outofmycomfortzone fatigue. See it’s such that I needed to hashtag it!

I’ve never transplanted - or transferred - such young seedlings but these need root space pronto. Been up 1.5-2days.

Shed, you often mention burying the stem a little. How far is ok with something this size? (Or any size for that matter ...)

Hoping you’re close at hand



Edit!: pics or it didn’t happen!

That’s exactly what mine looked like before I moved them to some solo cups. I burried one of them so high, it felt like it would’ve been right up to her neck! They’re all thriving and growing well now. It’s nerve wracking to do things differently than your norm, but your girls are looking great.

 

[Preston9mm]

That’s exactly what mine looked like before I moved them to some solo cups. I burried one of them so high, it felt like it would’ve been right up to her neck! They’re all thriving and growing well now. It’s nerve wracking to do things differently than your norm, but your girls are looking great.

Yuuup! I plant my fast sprout real deep when I up-pot them too. I've put a few babies like 3" deeper, right up to the neck

I've never seen anything detrimental from doing it. All of mine just keep right on jammin!

 

[InTheShed]

Yuuup! I plant my fast sprout real deep when I up-pot them too. I've put a few babies like 3" deeper, right up to the neck

I've never seen anything detrimental from doing it. All of mine just keep right on jammin!

My Peyote Critical is going nearly 4" down this weekend. I hate that leggy trunk!

 

[Amy Gardner]

Ok, this is cool. Because soon I’ll be transplanting my photo periods into their final homes. They’ll be a lot older, a good month or 2 into veg (outdoor mostly do not as fast ). They have 4-5 nodes now and are picking up pace. So, how deep can I bury these? I read somewhere today that up to an inch under the first node (not sure if that meant cotyledons or the next node up, likely the latter I think )

 

[InTheShed]

Does that mean I can't bury my PC 4" down?

 

[FelipeBlu]

how much daylight would it take to revert them back to veg?

In general, cannabis will veg well with a Daily Light Integral of 25 or more. In December, LA only gets about 20 DLI during about 10 hours. This is not even enough hours of daylight for vegging a photoperiod anyway, but each hour of direct sunlight (no fog or overcast) is still equivalent to a LED that can provide a PPFD of about 550 across the entire canopy. And the light moves!

For Shed to reveg in the winter, if his location in the backyard only received 7 hours of direct, but partly cloudy sunlight, and 2 hours of indirect light (maybe only a total of 12 DLI), he would probably need to provide another 13 DLI (over at least another 5 or 6 hours) to be fairly assured of success.

 

[InTheShed]

In general, cannabis will veg well with a Daily Light Integral of 25 or more. In December, LA only gets about 20 DLI during about 10 hours. This is not even enough hours of daylight for vegging a photoperiod anyway, but each hour of direct sunlight (no fog or overcast) is still equivalent to a LED that can provide a PPFD of about 550 across the entire canopy. And the light moves!

For Shed to reveg in the winter, if his location in the backyard only received 7 hours of direct, but partly cloudy sunlight, and 2 hours of indirect light (maybe only a total of 12 DLI), he would probably need to provide another 13 DLI (over at least another 5 or 6 hours) to be fairly assured of success.

Thanks Felipe! Where did you get the DLI of 25+ from?

I'd say I did pretty well guessing at 18 hours then . Though I don't get 7 hours of direct sunlight at this point. Closer to 6 (when the sun is out). That and I'm not revegging anything.

My plants get at least 20 hours of light a day.

 

[Archiweedies]

My mind is blown...actually

 

[InTheShed]

I think we might want to get into the weeds (pardon the pun) on Daily light integral (DLI) that @FelipeBlu mentioned, and there is a good article on the PL Lighting website that discusses both the DLI and the mole requirements for cannabis. I can't link it here because they're not a sponsor, but if you search "Daily Light Integral for cannabis" in Google, it's the first link (after the ad) to pllight.

Felipe and his brother BTzGrow discussed this in (I think) Felipe's auto journal earlier this year so I'm sure he will have more to contribute to the conversation.

PL Lighting posted a clear explanation without a lot of jargon, so I'll copy and paste some of it here:

QUOTE:
Understanding Micromoles
Most growers are aware of the term micromoles (µmol) and even have a number in mind of how many micromoles they want to grow. This number is usually between 850-1000 for indoor crops. Let’s take a minute to discuss where this number comes from. First, what is a micromole? A micromole is simply one millionth of a mole (micro). A micromole measurement of the PAR for your crop is based on the amount of photons being delivered per square meter per second. It is with this measurement of PPF (Photosynthetic Photon Flux) that we can then calculate total moles delivered per day. It is actually this number – total moles – that is important for your crop to produce.

If ‘Moles’ are the important number for determining how much light to put on my crop why does everyone refer to micromoles” Because a micromole is a per second, instantaneous picture of your light level at that moment in time we can measure this with a par sensor. This is why you see so many requests for 900 micromoles on a cannabis crop. Let’s break this down to understand the importance of this micromole number.

Any fruit bearing crop – tomatoes, peppers, etc. will want between 20-40 moles per day to produce. Let’s use tomatoes as an example. If we have a grower who wants to achieve superior growth from his crop, he may want to target our light levels to about 30-32 moles per day. The production curve from a crop in relation to the amount of moles delivered per day sharply increases between 20-30 moles, begins to really level off between 30-40 moles and over 40 begins to hit a point of diminishing returns for your crop. If our tomato grower wants to hit 32 moles per day to maximize his production then we will see how long he plans to light his crop. If he is going to run lights for 16 hours each day we can then do the math to figure out his light levels in micromoles we want to target:

32 moles / 16 hr photoperiod / 60 minutes / 60 seconds = 0.000556 moles
(This gives us the amount of moles delivered per second per square meter)

0.000556 moles x 1,000,000 = 556 µmols per second per meter squared
We will need to design a light layout of 556 µmols

The reason cannabis is a much larger number than the example above is due to the photoperiod requirement of this crop. To initiate flowering of the cannabis bud we need to allow for 12 hours of darkness. Also, currently cannabis is a higher profit margin crop than most produce, so even though the production curve in relation to amount of light starts to level off in the 30 – 40 mole range, most growers will push it out as much as possible. Let’s work our same math above, but start with the requirement of 900 µmols for our indoor cannabis grow with only a 12 hour photoperiod:

900 µmols x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 12 hours = 38,880,000 µmols
(This gives us the amount of µmoles delivered in a 12 hr period)

38,880,000 / 1,000,000 = 38.88 moles per 12 hr photoperiod
900 µmols will deliver 38.88 moles over 12 hours

Not all growers will be successful growing at 38 moles per day and with that much light in an indoor grow—some will have to battle the heat if growing with HPS, or just the sheer size of the electric bill can be a detriment. Many growers produce very well at 30 moles per 12 hr period (about 700 micromoles). /QUOTE

Something interesting here is that the 900umol number is based on the 12/12 time period, which is to say that if you are running your lights for 18 hours, they don't need 900umols, allowing you to run at lower wattages during veg. Based on the equation above, you could run at 600umols for 18 hours and also get to 38.88 moles during the 24 hour period.

DLI describes the sum of the per second PPFD measurements during a 24-hour period and is useful for outdoor growers, but mostly for those who grow in greenhouses with supplemental lighting. The DLI for any given place in the USA can be seen on this map, and of course it varies based on time of year:

Let's get back to the PL Lighting information:

QUOTE:
Greenhouse Application
“What does this mean if I am growing in a greenhouse? Should I target 900 µmols in my greenhouse?” This is a question we hear a lot! You are already receiving a good amount of light from sun in your greenhouse but depending on where your house is in the world and what time of year it is, you could receive as little as only 5 moles per day (As is the case in northern climates during winter) or even more light than you may need (as is Arizona in the summer). Let’s use our tomato grower above as a simple example. If our tomato grower is growing in a greenhouse which is located in central Oregon and wants to maintain 32 moles per day on his crop year-round we then have to refer to the above Daily Light Integral (DLI) map for this area.

You can see that through the three darkest months of winter this grower can expect to receive an average of about 10 moles per day from natural sunlight. When designing his light levels for his grow we would recommend supplementing this natural light with 22 moles of lighting per 16 hour photoperiod to achieve his 32 mole target:

22 moles / 16 hrs / 60 mins / 60 secs x 1,000,000 = 382 µmols
382 µmols of supplemental lighting needed

Now let’s do the same for our cannabis grower who is growing in the same location and also would like to achieve light levels of 32 moles per day all year for production. Again, we will allot for the 10 moles of natural light he will receive and target 22 moles with our lighting:

22 moles / 12 hrs / 60 mins / 60 secs x 1,000,000 = 509 µmols
509 µmols of supplemental lighting needed /QUOTE

So if I am getting 15 moles a day of sunlight in December in L. A. (which I'm not because I'm not growing in an open field, but let's say I am), then I will need an additional 23 moles/day to get to 38 moles. I have about 12 hours to get that additional light (between 8pm and 8am) So I would have:
23 moles / 12 hours / 60 mins / 60 seconds x 1,000,000 = 532 umols of lighting in the shed at night.

However, if I am in flower and I have to get all my lighting into the remaining hours between sunset and the beginning of my 12 hour dark period (8pm-8am), then I would really only have about 3 hours to get the additional umols in. I would need over 2,000 umols to accomplish that, something I haven't got anything close to. Oh well! This is the life of an outside grower in December .

 

[Graytail]

Great stuff Shed!

 

[Derbybud]

Nice breakdown Shed.

 

[Preston9mm]

My Peyote Critical is going nearly 4" down this weekend. I hate that leggy trunk!

They always trip me out when they get really tall like that. I just play it safe and put them in a little deeper.

 

[Preston9mm]

Ok, this is cool. Because soon I’ll be transplanting my photo periods into their final homes. They’ll be a lot older, a good month or 2 into veg (outdoor mostly do not as fast ). They have 4-5 nodes now and are picking up pace. So, how deep can I bury these? I read somewhere today that up to an inch under the first node (not sure if that meant cotyledons or the next node up, likely the latter I think )

Here's a shot of my Moby Dick:

She has been planted deeper with each up-pot. Just a stretching machine, this MD. LoL
Even the first split after topping is a little below the soil. Not sure if I'm right or wrong on my method, just gave it a shot and it seems to work out just fine.

Stay lifted y'all!