Indicas Grow & Experimenting Genetics Part II - Winter Indoor Organic Grow

[Danishoes21]

Have you gotten rid of those damn mites yet? I had something get into my seedling cabinet. I sprayed everything down with Monterey, twice. Things got a little harrey but now they're growing good. I also dusted the soil with DE.

Actually its gotten way better after the use of Diatomaceous Earth (food grade), I don't see the freaking little black flies anymore, and my plants seem to have less and less damage on the leaves. things are getting better.

 

[Danishoes21]

I found this post insightful. I'll be running my tent from now on at 11/13, so I'll be watching to see how well this plays out for me.

Sue its all about experimentation, but beware not all experiments turn out positive, just letting you know you might lose ones and win others. I don't use the commercial seeds for experiments because they cost an eye, I would suggest trying to make some seeds then hit them with all kinds of weird experiments then apply whats best for you with the expensive seeds.

11/13 is a nice photoperiod to work with. Go a little deeper and search where in the world they have 11/13 photoperiod and at which months this occurs, I come from the tropics (Venezuela) and I can relate to this, all my life sun came out around 5-6 am and the sun sets around 6-7 all year long and the variations on photoperiods weren't that big, so any plant growing back home had all year going from 13 hours of light to 11 hrs, they still vegetate then flower heck you can get 2 crops a year (for most agricultural proposes not just cannabis).

Check this reading material:
Common Beans

If you have the time read it all, if not jump to page 454 Photoperiod Responses.

 

[Danishoes21]

She is just wild untameable, I really can't explain why she has the nanners, I checked at night for light leaks or anything, I guessing it could be my human mistake or the genetics behind the mexican sativa I used to cross is to wild... nonetheless she has the most unique structure I have grown to date. Its such a weird plant but she seems to be doing fine, I have been misting with distilled water to try to wash off the DE, the plant looks like could use a watering with some nutrients so this sunday some bone meal 4-10-0. Temperatures are stable still low 20's Celsius, RH% avg 40-60.

Pheno#1

She is looking more bushy, a more fatty flower, more denser looking bud leans towards an Indica if you ask me... Both phenos have similar smell thats nice, But in size and shape there is quite difference in these sisters.
Pheno#2

Last but not least, the wicked one. Male Hermie
Pheno#3

 

[b.real]

my guess is genetics. looking good though. did you add more lamps?

 

[Danishoes21]

my guess is genetics. looking good though. did you add more lamps?

Thanks b.

My guess is the same, tuff genes...

Didn't add any new ones, just that these 3 ladies are alone in the tent now, so all the light is for them. Plus the UV bulb i've had since the beginning.

 

[CA215]

It's getting frosty in here What kind of smells are you getting off the differing phenos D?
Oh yeah everyone, made up my new label for today, Thoughtful Thursdays! Pass on some positive vibes to your family and friends You know you wanna

 

[SweetSue]

Dani, I've said it before, you grow the most interesting plants. Pheno #2 looks for all the world like a French Lavander plant from a distance. What unique form. These look like they would have responded well to Ranger's espalier technique.

 

[Danishoes21]

It's getting frosty in here What kind of smells are you getting off the differing phenos D?
Oh yeah everyone, made up my new label for today, Thoughtful Thursdays! Pass on some positive vibes to your family and friends You know you wanna

yeah seems they like frosty coating these ones.. lol Hopefully they go fully flower without going crazy on hormones...

The smells, they are quite similar there is mango undertone to them, when I rub the stems its mango, but smelling from a distance the plant has that strong earthy skunk smell, these are not citrus at all I can tell you that, the mango is a sweet tone like a ripe mango. The male does have a stronger smell. I think I can elaborate a little more on the smells as the get older.

I give them a good shaking to catch all those terpenes in the air, its pretty nice smelling fresh flowers like this.

 

[Danishoes21]

Dani, I've said it before, you grow the most interesting plants. Pheno #2 looks for all the world like a French Lavander plant from a distance. What unique form. These look like they would have responded well to Ranger's espalier technique.

Thanks for the kind words Sue. I really don't know where they got their traits because the two plants I remember they come from are not like this at all... And the shocker how different they are.

Yeah I could have used some training but Im trying to play it safe. already with the PM and flies around the corner, just battling that is a challenge.

Sue I left you a link to a reading about photoperiods. Its on post #322. Let me know what you think about it.

 

[SweetSue]

I bookmarked it and will read it later. The bit I started to read left me wondering why we think we know so much about these plants. It appears we have just begun to scratch the surface in understanding all the "secondary" things that go on just away from center stage, you know what I mean? We focus on something we can quantify, to the exclusion of the ten thousand little modulations that occurred somewhere else to make that measurable thing happen.

This technical stuff is beginning to make sense to me now dani.

 

[Danishoes21]

Im almost giving up with the hermie traits. I've been fighting and fighting, today I put them outside and plucked all the nanners I could, the good news is the plant has intense smell, and very resinous, left the tips of my fingers oily, she smells like mango skunk very nice, its a familiar smell to me. What can I say I guess its my fault the developed nanners, today I discovered that since the daylight has changed here in Montreal (sunrise is one hour early) light is getting in the tent before the CFLs go on, thats my fault. I try my best but I guess I have to retry this experiment one more time. I will chop these two by the end of the month, sadly this is my last grow for the year since I will be on a journey this summer, so I can't do my summer outdoors. The good news is I will be back growing as soon as I am back and stable, I really want to dedicate time to develop my own strain, my own seeds. I will be moving to the west coast, with hopes of getting involved with the growing community in Vancouver. If I have time I could do one grow around the area I will be at... Im very passionate about everything I do from cooking to growing, and losing a battle (like this one) kinda hurts, but what can I say, Its a learning experience.

Pheno#1

Pheno#2

Wish everyone a great week

 

[Danishoes21]

I bookmarked it and will read it later. The bit I started to read left me wondering why we think we know so much about these plants. It appears we have just begun to scratch the surface in understanding all the "secondary" things that go on just away from center stage, you know what I mean? We focus on something we can quantify, to the exclusion of the ten thousand little modulations that occurred somewhere else to make that measurable thing happen.

This technical stuff is beginning to make sense to me now dani.

Sue, since the decriminalization of Cannabis a new chapter has begun, we can now study this plant. The community has split in two (as consecuence) Cash Crop growing and experimental growing. I am on the experimental side, yes growing for buds is what we want and desire, but understanding the biomechanics and life of the plant is essential to obtain the cleanest most intense flavour and effect out each bud. I compare my buds with the ones I get from growers out here, yes the commercial buds are incredible in terms of weight, smells, trichomes, but its a chemical effect and most of the time I smoke even 5 joints to have a pleasant effect, now when I smoke what I grow I find myself using less bud to obtain the pleasure I want, its clean, doesn't hurt my throat, and overall the bond with the plant completes a cycle that makes each smoke unique, growing for 6 months to obtain 10 grms makes me appreciate each toke.

I love the amazing plants people grow here, very very talented growers I follow here, Im amazed how people can obtain pounds of bud from one single plant. But I find there is a hidden beauty when growing without the help of chemical fertilizers, or pesticides, these plants are resilient to a point we can't even understand, they can grow on rocks in the Himalayas with only rain water, or in the harsh soils in Pakistan...

Hope you enjoy the reading.

 

[Ranger275]

Hey danishoes21,
Sorry about the circumstances. Still, it's a fun project and I look forward to seeing your path.
Congratulations on moving! Used to live in Seattle and visited VBC many times. I think you'll have fun there. Nice climate, cool people, awesome Chinese (and other) food. I hope you find a good gig in the field.

 

[CA215]

Bummer to read Danish, but a new chapter in life means new experiences.
Don't think of it as throwing in the towel, when you are situated on the west coast everything ill begin to fall back
into place and you can pickup your passions once more. Keep it positive brotha and stay safe. Shoot me a PM sometime D!
CA215

 

[Danishoes21]

The Final Post.

After months of hard work, some wins and some loss, I post here the final take of the Bc Mango cross Pheno#1, what I could see is a brand new shape of "bud" very unique shape, I can't point out if the outcome was from the genetics behind the cross or the environment she grew up in, or even if the photoperiod had something to do with it. She was covered in trichomes even on the stems and leaves. Sadly my project had to end before time (my personal life is going thru some big changes), I've decided to go back to school so I had to change plans again, Im not leaving to the west coast for a while, good thing is I can start a summer grow as soon as Im stable again, should be in the next month or so.

Conclusions;
My hypothesis about photoperiods defining traits in my plants is not proven yet, but I am very convinced that the amount of light we give to the plant does have a mayor impact on the shape, size, texture, cannabinoid content, terpenes... while in the tropics daylight does not have a mayor gap change during the entire year, going from 13hrs-11hrs AVG. of daylight, plants still vegetate until they have reached sexual maturity and then start their flowering period which could take as long as the vegetative stage did (3-5 months if you ask me).

In this journal is played with photoperiod and UVB radiation, first hand I could see a pattern in the leaves development, very few leaves, and the foliage was characterized by 1-3 leaflet leaves, only the first 4 nodes had the 5-7 leaflet leaves we are accustomed to see in Cannabis, the low foliage matter allow the plants to develop bud sites in very atypical shapes and sizes. My thoughts are if you have the time and willpower set your self a photoperiod schedule with very minimal changes, like a vegetative cycle that starts at 14.30 hrs of light then subtract 30 mins of your time monthly, or every two weeks, I believe this allows the plant to mature by it self and its not a stress derived like a 18-6 to 12-12 schedule would. Once again this is experimental growing, you will have to sacrifice yield for quality.

I commit on doing further test on this matter, every winter I will be doing a experimental grow (if my job allows me to lol), I have very interesting photoperiods I want to try.

On the quality of the Bc Mango cross; she was a beautiful plant, I got attached to her because she was unique, sadly the weights are marginal a little over 7 grms. but here is the catch I only smoke a joint of half a gram and the thing hits hard. When she was wet had a prolific ripe mango smell with that narcotic skunk smell from the mexican gens, I could differentiate both smells very clear. Then since the yield was low, I decided to chop complete, bud wash the entire plant (size 2 1/2 foot tall) then slow dried upside down wrapped in paper at a room temperature of 20-25 celsius for a week. I dint break into little buds, I left the plant complete then stored it in my fridge. Now every time I smoke I just break some material of and grind everything. The smell is very sweet almost like a mango chutney (excuse my cook side tends to blend in), when burnt does smell like Im smoking a cigar, very deep, very strong smoke. Smooth on the throat, no coughing, but the smoke exhaled does make my eyes red.
The effect is a hybrid like; going back on the genetics the original Bc Mango is a Hybrid I believe a 60-40 indica/sativa then crossed with the unknown genetics of my Mexican plant (presumably a high % sativa), The Bc mango cross does lift me up as I puff, I get to talking, start giving speeches, it gets me moving thoughts and ideas, this lasts over and hour or so, then you feel the body buzz, so you start looking for your couch or bed (in my case my hammock lol) then you wanna eat a big plate of ice cream while watching John Oliver talk about the news.
She is very precious so I only smoke a joint of this plant every Sunday while at the park, after riding the mountain bike.

I don't go in deep about the hermaphrodite traits I saw in this plant because I can't say what caused this, I did discover the daylight savings time did screw me up allowing unwanted light to penetrate my opened tent while I sleep in the morning, but their is also the possibility that these traits are part of the genetic pool in the cross, guess I will have to find a Pheno that is hermie free.

I will try to pop some of the same seeds Bc Mango cross for my summer grow, I really want to see them outdoors.

I thank everyone that has been sharing ideas with me and for sure I will invite everyone on my next growing adventure. Stay posted.

Keep them green, keep them growing and keep enjoying.

 

[SweetSue]

Congratulations on the harvest. I like the way you eke out the harvest for special moments. Shows a certain respect for the sacrifice of the plant.

One of my more intense reads for the last cycle dani. You're the one who tempted me with the altered light schedule, so now I'll be exploring 11/13 for at least the next year and I'm excited about the possibilities.

Good luck on your outdoor grow possibilities, and good luck with the life changes. Change is a good thing. I'm finding out even scary change is a good thing. I got caught up in life myself lately and missed a couple pages of your journal, so let me back up and get the reading done.

I'll be expecting an invite to your next journal danishoes.



Edit: Turned out I was better caught up than I thought. That made me feel good that I'd made you the priority you deserved to be.

 

[CA215]

Great read Danish kudos on some kine herb! Great to read you'll be able to maneuver another OD before your move! How cool is that. breaking into the fridge and snapping off some homegrown meds.. right off the branch, badass!

I agree that you are onto something, a timer that would allow a 2-3 minute reduction every day working down from say 14 or 12 hours would surely mimic the sun producing some stellar herb. Might be looking into a new digital timer for myself soon, would love to experiment with diminishing light schedules.

Can't wait for the next one, more bc mango, more bc mango!

Stay vigilant my friend, take care! CA215

 

[Danishoes21]

This is one of my latest experiments.

This is a look at the enzymes product of 3 week fermentation of pineapple skins with a cinnamon stick, cloves and brown sugar.

After I clear the fungus, strain the liquid I added a dry cannabis plant (Bc Mango cross Pheno#2, remember I still had her)

And the final product, still in try out period, I use the fermented liquid as a base for my morning smoothies.

Benefits of fermented pineapple skins:
-Probiotic enzymes
-Good for digestion
-Diuretic
-Cannabis infused (well we all know the benefits of cannabis)

this is what experimental cooking and experimental growing looks like in my head.
Wish y'all a great week

 

[CA215]

Very cool stuff Danish. Have done some reading on probiotic enzymes.
How does this effect your system, feeling invigorated, system is regular and on schedule?
Went to a marathon not to long ago and picked up samples of organic capsules with mixtures of different goodies
that were to help with digestion and breaking down of hard to process foods. I took one of those suckers and was
on the toilet for dang near two days.. probiotic is no joke Kudos on another great experiment D!
What kindof smoothie was that also?

 

[Danishoes21]

Very cool stuff Danish. Have done some reading on probiotic enzymes.
How does this effect your system, feeling invigorated, system is regular and on schedule?
Went to a marathon not to long ago and picked up samples of organic capsules with mixtures of different goodies
that were to help with digestion and breaking down of hard to process foods. I took one of those suckers and was
on the toilet for dang near two days.. probiotic is no joke Kudos on another great experiment D!
What kindof smoothie was that also?

Well depending on what you consume; yes some cause a urge to take a day off to spend it in the toilet... but think about it this way, If its going out, it should have been out in the first place. Im not a vegan I do consume meats, but they are very harmful, meats can take up to 72 hours in your coelom before they are completely digested (for some people even more and its painful), think about it just 12 hrs at room temperature any meat will start to rot, imagen what 72 hrs looks like inside the body... basically rotten meat. Having a good Gut flora or microbiota can and will help you better digest everything you eat, not just meats, carbs, aminoacids, you eat it, they break it down.

Now, I understand why asian culture uses the fermentation technique to a lot of their culinary recipes, fermented beans, kimchi, fermented mushroom, fermented tofu...

In this recipe I used the skins of a whole pineapple, cinnamon stick and cloves for flavor, added sugar to help it ferment and go in the direction of alcohol with out becoming a vinegar... 3 weeks after I strained and added cannabis to see what fermentation would do to the trichomes. Im still experimenting but I can tell you this, with added cannabis you do feel the meds kick in, to my surprise the fermented liquid does have a alcohol taste to it, like a cider sparkling wine with the delicate pineapple taste and the smell of the Bc mango in it. So I can't say if I was getting buzzed from the cannabis or from the alcohol content. Either way its a perfect base for any juice you make, why? cause if you have a hard time consuming weird stuff you can still hide the taste behind some fruits you like and still benefit from the probiotic culture.

The smoothie:
Get your hands on fresh fruits. I freeze them right away. then I use them as ice/solvent to my smoothies, meaning, instead of adding water and ice to make the drink your frozen fruits will give you the water and crushed ice texture once perfectly blended. So you have your fruits in the blender, ice solid, you still need a base liquid to blend with, I normally use orange juice, or plain yogurt or milk depending on the citric content of the smoothie. Now that I have the fermented pineapple drink, why not use it a base for smoothies?

the one on the pic:
bluberry
blackberry
strawberry
banana
fermented pineapple skin

No water added, no ice, no sugar.

Fresh fruit (specially organic) are like 80% water, and they are sweet by nature. no need to add sugar (which is also bad for you, Id rather go with natural brown sugar or molasses)

One thing to consider, trichomes are not water soluble so in theory the Cannabis in the fermented liquid should be smokable after. See where Im headed???

Thanks for your interest broda I appreciate it, and it makes me happy to take 5 mins to explain what I do.
Respect