If you defoliate autos what day do you start doing it?

[mindb4matter]

There is only One way to Know, for certain, and for yourself. (commence experimentation and save that girl.) Better to have loved that plant then not! Faith and trust will only go so far. (experiments conducted by others or believing others' findings will give you insight) But, you shall not Know until you have Experienced it for yourself.

I know this post is late by now. However so many did not read your opening post, and have taken over the thread.

As per your opening post requests......

I top at the 4th node when 5th is developed and 6th node is showing leafy fluffiness.
Light LST only for now
If vigorous growth is visible, at first sign of bud hairs, I'll defoliate the bud hairs , down the branch from the 3rd node down.

My girls are then removed from the LST shackles (soft fuzzy pipe cleaners) and left to stretch out for flowering. Next 2-3 weeks I remove any lower larf and tuck and weave large fan leaves out of the lower buds light. I don't remove anymore leaves.

This may be enough to save all plants and tuck them snugly into your space that you have to work with.

This is what works for me. With very decent results. But don't ever fall for hearsay...DO IT, and you will then Know, for Certain, and for Yourself. Their experiences will always be different then yours!


RANT WARNING.....

Hopefully, some long time people here stop hi-jacking the threads and give what the posters requests. Not just what is forged in their own minds.

 

[Mdlroad]

Reading thru this thread has given me an idea for experiment my next grow. Start 3 autos 1st no hands on. 2nd lst only. 3rd top lst defoliate. If I'm understanding correctly. The 1st should reach harvest 3 or so weeks before the others. Each one later and bigger yield. YIf it works out you could create perpetual grow just in how you manage the plants

 

[stinker]

There is only One way to Know, for certain, and for yourself. (commence experimentation and save that girl.) Better to have loved that plant then not! Faith and trust will only go so far. (experiments conducted by others or believing others' findings will give you insight) But, you shall not Know until you have Experienced it for yourself.

I know this post is late by now. However so many did not read your opening post, and have taken over the thread.

As per your opening post requests......

I top at the 4th node when 5th is developed and 6th node is showing leafy fluffiness.
Light LST only for now
If vigorous growth is visible, at first sign of bud hairs, I'll defoliate the bud hairs , down the branch from the 3rd node down.

My girls are then removed from the LST shackles (soft fuzzy pipe cleaners) and left to stretch out for flowering. Next 2-3 weeks I remove any lower larf and tuck and weave large fan leaves out of the lower buds light. I don't remove anymore leaves.

This may be enough to save all plants and tuck them snugly into your space that you have to work with.

This is what works for me. With very decent results. But don't ever fall for hearsay...DO IT, and you will then Know, for Certain, and for Yourself. Their experiences will always be different then yours!


RANT WARNING.....

Hopefully, some long time people here stop hi-jacking the threads and give what the posters requests. Not just what is forged in their own minds.

Thanks for the info. Just to be sure I understand - top first, then remove nodes when first sign of sex/hairs (not when topping or before?). I will only be removing the first nodes single bladed leaf and topping 2, FIM 1. When you say "down the branch from the 3rd node down" is that the main stalk?

It would seem like the nodes/branch should be taken if they are already growing what would be a week branch, so as to not be growing out what will be removed.

I just want to do what works best. Are autos that sensitive really, they seem strong? I feel odd asking these questions. I appreciate the info.

 

[Deketx]

Beginners should not defoliate an auto, or a photo really. In general though, outside of that, the comment is bull squeeze.

If someone wants to do so, there is absolutely no reason not to do so. None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. But this is where experience comes into play, and why beginners should shy away from it much as they already helicopter parent their first few plants.

There's a trick to it, but if performed properly it actually turns into something beneficial to the plant. Here's why, in a big picture sense.

Autos start out producing veg hormones like crazy. After a couple weeks the flowering hormones start to build until they overtake and become the dominant hormone and they start to flower.

Now, during veg you can trick the plant into producing more veg hormones which results in a delay of that balance of hormonal power shift. You cannot delay it forever, but you can absolutely delay it enough to veg your plants a few weeks longer than they would have untouched.

The trick to it is light defoliation and pruning every other day. You don't want to do it all at once. Take a handful or so (a dozen or two) of leaves every couple of days, as well as a node or two that won't ever make the canopy anyway. The amount you take is kind of proportional to what the plant has available. The more bushy and more nodes it's pushing out, the better.

However, the best route is to start with topping first. Top above the 4th node, no later than day 21 from sprout (above ground, not seed cracking), and remove nodes 1 & 2. This should leave you with nodes 3 & 4. From there, use LST to keep it growing horizontally. You end up creating bushy plants, which produce a lot of leaves and nodes. This is good. This gives you something to gently snip on!

Now, keep it up until flowers show, and then let them begin to grow vertical. But we're not quite done yet.

During stretch, if you really, really need to, you can take more leaves to help curb the amount of stretch. It won't stop it, just slow it a hair. Once the stretch is over, then you can take more leaves to expose more bud sites to light. Once you're about 5 weeks into flower, you can do one final round to take all you need to get it opened up to light and air. (Note that we're talking about the water leaves, the big fans, not sugar leaves.)

That's that.


Doing this works. The gist of it is that by taking a little bit from it every other day kind of mimics an animal coming by for a little munch. This does stress the plant a little, but not in a bad way. This will cause it to produce more veg hormone to try and catch up to make sure it's as big as possible for entering the reproductive phase. So with more veg hormone being produces, it will take more flowering hormone than it would have to overtake the veg hormone and start to flower.


How well does it work?

17.25oz from this lovely auto, for starters. She was total cabbage, and made it really, really easy to defol/prune during veg. She vegged for about 2 months, actually 9 weeks but close enough. Then she took about 9-10 weeks to fully flower.


Which brings us to the downside of it all, and pretty much a 180* move from why most people run autos: speed.

When you do this to autos, it will delay them in veg a little longer. While this allows them to get bigger, it also means you are negating the main desirable trait of an auto: their ability to finish quicker than their photoperiod counterpart.

So really, unless there is a reason to run autos other than for their quicker turnaround, then it really won't be of any benefit. However, that by no means makes it a bad thing to do.

This is interesting. I LST like crazy, but rarely defoliate unless it's blocking a bud site.

 

[stinker]

This is interesting. I LST like crazy, but rarely defoliate unless it's blocking a bud site.

Thanks, nice plants.
When can you remove the first node, how old mature does it need to be? Before or after topping? Sorry, its not clear to me. The first nodes I want to remove have growth
It would seem like the nodes/branch should/could be taken if they are already growing what would be a week branch, so as to not be growing out what will be removed.

 

[stinker]

Thanks, nice plants.
When can you remove the first node, how old mature does it need to be? Before or after topping? Sorry, its not clear to me. The first nodes I want to remove have growth
It would seem like the nodes/branch should/could be taken if they are already growing what would be a week branch, so as to not be growing out what will be removed.

It was right in front of me. "However, the best route is to start with topping first. Top above the 4th node, no later than day 21 from sprout (above ground, not seed cracking), and remove nodes 1 & 2. This should leave you with nodes 3 & 4."

 

[Grower2020]

Beginners should not defoliate an auto, or a photo really. In general though, outside of that, the comment is bull squeeze.

If someone wants to do so, there is absolutely no reason not to do so. None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. But this is where experience comes into play, and why beginners should shy away from it much as they already helicopter parent their first few plants.

There's a trick to it, but if performed properly it actually turns into something beneficial to the plant. Here's why, in a big picture sense.

Autos start out producing veg hormones like crazy. After a couple weeks the flowering hormones start to build until they overtake and become the dominant hormone and they start to flower.

Now, during veg you can trick the plant into producing more veg hormones which results in a delay of that balance of hormonal power shift. You cannot delay it forever, but you can absolutely delay it enough to veg your plants a few weeks longer than they would have untouched.

The trick to it is light defoliation and pruning every other day. You don't want to do it all at once. Take a handful or so (a dozen or two) of leaves every couple of days, as well as a node or two that won't ever make the canopy anyway. The amount you take is kind of proportional to what the plant has available. The more bushy and more nodes it's pushing out, the better.

However, the best route is to start with topping first. Top above the 4th node, no later than day 21 from sprout (above ground, not seed cracking), and remove nodes 1 & 2. This should leave you with nodes 3 & 4. From there, use LST to keep it growing horizontally. You end up creating bushy plants, which produce a lot of leaves and nodes. This is good. This gives you something to gently snip on!

Now, keep it up until flowers show, and then let them begin to grow vertical. But we're not quite done yet.

During stretch, if you really, really need to, you can take more leaves to help curb the amount of stretch. It won't stop it, just slow it a hair. Once the stretch is over, then you can take more leaves to expose more bud sites to light. Once you're about 5 weeks into flower, you can do one final round to take all you need to get it opened up to light and air. (Note that we're talking about the water leaves, the big fans, not sugar leaves.)

That's that.


Doing this works. The gist of it is that by taking a little bit from it every other day kind of mimics an animal coming by for a little munch. This does stress the plant a little, but not in a bad way. This will cause it to produce more veg hormone to try and catch up to make sure it's as big as possible for entering the reproductive phase. So with more veg hormone being produces, it will take more flowering hormone than it would have to overtake the veg hormone and start to flower.


How well does it work?

17.25oz from this lovely auto, for starters. She was total cabbage, and made it really, really easy to defol/prune during veg. She vegged for about 2 months, actually 9 weeks but close enough. Then she took about 9-10 weeks to fully flower.


Which brings us to the downside of it all, and pretty much a 180* move from why most people run autos: speed.

When you do this to autos, it will delay them in veg a little longer. While this allows them to get bigger, it also means you are negating the main desirable trait of an auto: their ability to finish quicker than their photoperiod counterpart.

So really, unless there is a reason to run autos other than for their quicker turnaround, then it really won't be of any benefit. However, that by no means makes it a bad thing to do.

I find the biggest advantage to growing autos is not found within the confines of an indoor grow tent . The thing I like most about autos is the fact that when you grow them outdoors in summer and have a hardy strain concerning heat and humidity such as og kush automatic, you can defoliate ....lst ....top and even though you will prolong your bloom as you mention and I agree with....You can still get bigger autos and harvest months before all of the photo period growers who are outdoors also . Autos are awesome for beating old school growers to the harvest table .