Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Does your PAR meter calculate the daily light integral, or DLI?

This is the first time I have heard of PAR. As usual, you are forcing me into the "research mode" again. LOL

The following quotes are from this web page. Beyond the Basics: PAR and DLI Light Measurements

"Now that you are convinced that PAR is the way to go, we have to do a little math in order to calculate the amount of light that our crop is getting over the course of the day because PAR is a measure of instantaneous light. This is where daily light integral, or DLI, comes in to our lighting calculations. DLI is the measure of accumulated PAR over the time that our lights are on, and it is typically expressed in moles per day. The recommended DLI for fruiting crops like tomatoes or cucumbers is between 20 and 30 moles per day, whereas a crop like lettuce only needs around 17 moles per day. We calculate DLI by multiplying our PAR reading by the total amount of seconds that our lights are on per day and then dividing that number by 1,000,000. So, we would multiply our PAR reading by .0864 if our lights were on 24 hours a day and we multiple that same PAR reading by .0432 if they are on 12 hours a day."

"When integrated into a growing system, DLI measurement can even automatically determine when your plants need watering by measuring the accumulated light levels over a certain amount of time."
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

GandalfWhite said:
Does your PAR meter calculate the daily light integral, or DLI?

This is the first time I have heard of PAR. As usual, you are forcing me into the "research mode" again. LOL

The following quotes are from this web page. Beyond the Basics: PAR and DLI Light Measurements

"Now that you are convinced that PAR is the way to go, we have to do a little math in order to calculate the amount of light that our crop is getting over the course of the day because PAR is a measure of instantaneous light. This is where daily light integral, or DLI, comes in to our lighting calculations. DLI is the measure of accumulated PAR over the time that our lights are on, and it is typically expressed in moles per day. The recommended DLI for fruiting crops like tomatoes or cucumbers is between 20 and 30 moles per day, whereas a crop like lettuce only needs around 17 moles per day. We calculate DLI by multiplying our PAR reading by the total amount of seconds that our lights are on per day and then dividing that number by 1,000,000. So, we would multiply our PAR reading by .0864 if our lights were on 24 hours a day and we multiple that same PAR reading by .0432 if they are on 12 hours a day."

"When integrated into a growing system, DLI measurement can even automatically determine when your plants need watering by measuring the accumulated light levels over a certain amount of time."
Click to expand...

I'm actually not sure but I am going to check the manual and see if it does. I don't know but surely would like another "measurement" that we can use to justify a panels growing power, or lack of. Seems like a pretty simple formula, let me see what this meter can do. Great share on the information about DLI.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Would not be a simple calculation with the iGro and their 'phased in' light patterns. On others where it either light on or light off, it would be.

Or at least from how I understand what 'DLI' from Gandalf's posts.

Honestly this DLI thing does not seem to matter to me.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

I agree with Crawdaddy that the programmable LEDs make this measurement difficult. It appears that the DLI calculation assumes that the quality of light exhibits very little variation throughout the 24-hour period.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

GandalfWhite said:
I agree with Crawdaddy that the programmable LEDs make this measurement difficult. It appears that the DLI calculation assumes that the quality of light exhibits very little variation throughout the 24-hour period.
Click to expand...

Thats a great point, I'm surprised that I didn't even consider that. I guess my brain is fried today with all the other "issues" I've been dealing with.

I will take a look today to see if my meter can do DLI.


In reality, from my research I have done, the most accurate way of determining a plant lights efficiency is by calculating YPF. This takes the actual PAR readings, but weighs them against the individual wavelengths in the photosynthetic action spectrum. Since certain wavelengths drive photosynthesis harder than others, this correctly weights this response into the results and data. That is kind of the problem with PAR readings to begin with. They only count the available photons between 400nm and 700nm but do not take into consideration that some colors/wavelengths are used more efficiently that a plant. For instance, you could take an all green LED panel and get high par readings, but the high PAR readings themselves do not differentiate that the panel will be more effective than one built with all red leds at the same PAR value.

This is one of the most advertised values of LED grow lights, PAR...but really it just measures all available light to a plant in the PAR region of the spectrum. Another issue with PAR is that IR and UV do influence plant response and growth, but PAR meters do not read IR or UV.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Sounds like YPF is just a modified PAR. Never heard of it before.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

There are spectoradiometer (the high-end scientific stuff) that you leave the probe in the desired position over the entire length of the test/grow that record the data in 1 sec 15 sec 30 sec or 1 min intervals and then gives spectral analysis and overall exposure data. The data is always available and able to be calculated, its just about how much time, effort, and capital you want to put in to get that data.

The Apogee PAR meter is great at what it does for the price. The more detailed data you want, the more you pay for it in time and equipment.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

My reading indicates that plants respond best to specific groups of wavelengths within the PAR region particular points in their growing cycle. This is only one of the opportunities for customization of the light produced by LEDs. Imagine being able to customize the light to closely emulate the quality and quantity of natural light found in the areas where a particular strain's landrace seed heritage originated from. i.e. "Columbian style" light for a strain that has grown in Columbia for thousands of years.

Unfortunately, I have plenty of ideas about growing things but lack the skill to actually grow them. LOL
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

F.Y.I. The Apogee web site indicated that your PAR meter can "easily" be connected to an electronic data logger.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

GandalfWhite said:
F.Y.I. The Apogee web site indicated that your PAR meter can "easily" be connected to an electronic data logger.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just read the manual, it looks like it also can be set on Auto mode and take "snapshots" of PAR readings every 30 seconds, and then averages them per hour. I will have to look into it more when I have more energy but seems to me that I should be able to test DLI or measurements similar to it.

I'm all for these types of tests, definitely will figure out how do to it and share :)
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to post some updated photos of the girls.

After taking the Par readings I decided to move the lights even closer to the plants so right now the lights sit between 10" and 14" from the plants and are soaking up that 700+ umol of light and seem to be loving it. After I moved the lights closer it seemed as though the leaves posture went up towards the light, as well as the leaves seemed to be growing very fast and took on a more shiny look to them.

It was weird how just doing this seemed to effect the plants over the course of 1 day :)

I haven't done much besides just sit back and let them grow.

Here are some photos of the girls.

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re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

I forgot to add that 2 days ago I also gave the girls a foliar feeding of R/O water with yucca extract, organic b, 2-4-0 hydrolyzed fish, PGR, potassium silicate and carboload. and some Spinosad for pest prevention.
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Hosebomber said:
Your grow is looking almost as good as your odds at MotM. Congrats on both.... Well deserved.
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Thanks Hosebomber!! I couldn't believe it when I saw I was nominated :) so awesome :) made my month for sure :) Thank you for the very nice compliments!!
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Update time!!!

So the girls are growing extremely fast and getting very bushy and it shouldn't be long before they start brushing up against the screen ready to be scrogged.

I will be taking the LST strings off in probably a week and really just wanted to push out as many branches as I could before the screen to have more branches to work with.

I have given the girls a few foliar sprays of just a simple soil and molasses compost tea that I made and I have been trying a new watering regiment of small feedings every other day, like 1 cup of water per pot at this time and so far the plants seem to like it as well as the top soil is dry every other day.

I have only been feeding them the bubbling molasses and soil compost tea (soil is my premixed soil in a nylon).

Tonight I also gave them a good foliar feeding of amaze, pgr, organic b, fulvic acid and yucca extract plus some SNS pest control for prevention.

Overall they are looking amazing :)

I took some photos both with the lights on and with the lights off.

Enjoy :)

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re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Looking really nice in here! :) love the tech info on meters and PAR!
I just cant believe you now get your lights that close lol. My girls canopy is at 35 inches away at present and won't get any closer than 25 :)
Anyway now Im off to email my BM guy to check correct distance for max effect!
Thanks for a great shares as always! :)
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Lookin good Ice...

Got a couple of questions... that foliar feed you're using, are you doing that in a High Brix kinda fashion? and if so could that be the reason your plants respond so well to the led's being as close as they are?

Thanks,
Raz
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

I've been keeping my lights about 26" away. I'm not doing a foliar feed, right now. My plants seem to be doing very well. I am using the gen1 114 watt x 2 in a 4x4 room
 
re: Icemud's Intelligent Gro 2 LED Grow With V-Scrog - Going for 1lb & Beyond!

Light Addict said:
Looking really nice in here! :) love the tech info on meters and PAR!
I just cant believe you now get your lights that close lol. My girls canopy is at 35 inches away at present and won't get any closer than 25 :)
Anyway now Im off to email my BM guy to check correct distance for max effect!
Thanks for a great shares as always! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Light Addict for the compliments and for your shared enthusiasm in the Par readings. I have been wanting one for quite some time and figured now was a good time to get one since I have multiple lights to test :) still want to read my HID light but just trying to figure out how to hang them in my small place. :) but soon :)

I read something about Cannabis needing around 700 Umol for proper flower development but I may be wrong on that. I think veg doesn't need nearly that much though :) my babies are getting around 850 right now :) I actually just put 3 fermenation CO2 jugs in the tent to help with raising CO2 levels for the increased light to be used :)
 
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