Icemud's How To Make Feminized Seeds Using Colloidal Silver

[TheFertilizer]

Hey Icemud, have you looked into Earth Juice's CalMag supplement much? It's called OilyCann, it has 3% Ca and 1% Mg and .1% humic acid. I was reading the metal contents on WDE's site and it says it has almost 3 ppm of molybdenum though. The only AN cal mag I could find to compare was sensi cal-mag xtra, is that the one you're using?

Someone told me that humic acids are bad for plants, like it's carcinogenic.

 

[Icemud]

Hey Icemud, have you looked into Earth Juice's CalMag supplement much? It's called OilyCann, it has 3% Ca and 1% Mg and .1% humic acid. I was reading the metal contents on WDE's site and it says it has almost 3 ppm of molybdenum though. The only AN cal mag I could find to compare was sensi cal-mag xtra, is that the one you're using?

Someone told me that humic acids are bad for plants, like it's carcinogenic.

The 2 cal mags I generally use are botanicare or general organics, but used the AN this feeding as it is still early in flowering so the added nitrate should be beneficial... but usually I prefer general organics. The AN is just leftovers I got to try out on a clearance sale. I don't like it because it has edta.

its good it has a little molybdemum, plants use trace amounts of it Not really a concerning metal that I know of, the ones I'm concerned with cause harm such as lead, aresenic, mercury etc...

The AN i used was AN sensi (grow) but like I said its just a trial product I picked up, don't really recommend products with EDTA.

I've never heard humic acid as being bad for plants... too much humic materials can be detrimental to plant health by retaining water moisture and choking out oxygen... but I don't see why humic acid itself would be bad, as really it is a sort of sponge for ions. It increases the CEC of soil or the ability to hold and exchange ions.

 

[Icemud]

Watched a few good videos tonight..

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[TheFertilizer]

The 2 cal mags I generally use are botanicare or general organics, but used the AN this feeding as it is still early in flowering so the added nitrate should be beneficial... but usually I prefer general organics. The AN is just leftovers I got to try out on a clearance sale. I don't like it because it has edta.

its good it has a little molybdemum, plants use trace amounts of it Not really a concerning metal that I know of, the ones I'm concerned with cause harm such as lead, aresenic, mercury etc...

The AN i used was AN sensi (grow) but like I said its just a trial product I picked up, don't really recommend products with EDTA.

I've never heard humic acid as being bad for plants... too much humic materials can be detrimental to plant health by retaining water moisture and choking out oxygen... but I don't see why humic acid itself would be bad, as really it is a sort of sponge for ions. It increases the CEC of soil or the ability to hold and exchange ions.

Buddy of mine was saying it was a plant growth inhibitor and caused cancer or something? I don't know, I tend not to know if he really knows what he's talking about.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Watched a few good videos tonight..

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Good videos, I think the breeding and genetic side of cannabis is something not a lot of people pay enough attention to. I know people who make crosses of two strains and then call that a totally separate "strain", without realizing it's not stable at all. That's why I like Ace seeds, because they give you a lot of detail about the lineage and generational info. I feel like most seed banks just tend to try to sell F1 hybrids, knowing that if people try to reproduce it they'll get something totally different.

I have been wondering for a long time though, if all this human intervention in creating high-THC potency cannabis strains is a dangerous thing. I mean, he talks about how bad it is for the genetically modified crops to breed with wild crops, but what about the same being true for strains of cannabis that we've ran a somatic change into and then end up releasing pollen into a wild population? I mean, I guess another way to say it is what if we accidentally breed traits into wild plants that are not good traits for their environment, and end up basically wiping out wild population of cannabis through domestic over-population?

 

[Icemud]

Buddy of mine was saying it was a plant growth inhibitor and caused cancer or something? I don't know, I tend not to know if he really knows what he's talking about.

I will have to look into it now to see if there is any truth to it. Ill report back with what I find.

 

[Icemud]

Good videos, I think the breeding and genetic side of cannabis is something not a lot of people pay enough attention to. I know people who make crosses of two strains and then call that a totally separate "strain", without realizing it's not stable at all. That's why I like Ace seeds, because they give you a lot of detail about the lineage and generational info. I feel like most seed banks just tend to try to sell F1 hybrids, knowing that if people try to reproduce it they'll get something totally different.

I have been wondering for a long time though, if all this human intervention in creating high-THC potency cannabis strains is a dangerous thing. I mean, he talks about how bad it is for the genetically modified crops to breed with wild crops, but what about the same being true for strains of cannabis that we've ran a somatic change into and then end up releasing pollen into a wild population? I mean, I guess another way to say it is what if we accidentally breed traits into wild plants that are not good traits for their environment, and end up basically wiping out wild population of cannabis through domestic over-population?

Yea its becoming very common for people to sell F1 seeds... where as there are so many different genotypes and phenotypes of a single strain that dont even resemble each other.... watching those makes me a little sad as my goal with making selfed seeds S1's was to preserve the genetics, but now I see that even doing selfing, the progeny could be completely different. Therefore to truely preserve the genetics I have I would have to work each strain to at least S4 or more to have less variation.

In the same, its kind of exciting to know that with each cross and seed, its like spinning the roulette wheel, never knowing where its going to land as each seed is a roll of the Dna dice. Whats crazy is a lot of common and very popular strains were pure luck from planting bagseeds, or random events that werent' planned.. I mean look how many OG kushes were derived from Chemdawg which pretty much was a bagseed from a greatful dead concert, and the new popular gorilla glue was a bagseed from a hermied batch.

I don't know if anything ever "dangerous" would develop genetically in the plant, but I guess it could. I do know that I have read that cannabis roots have 2 different alkoloids that are not favorable to humans and could be harmful, so maybe the plant could later down the line mutate and form more of these alkoloids outside of the roots. One "danger" of today's cannabis is the lack of CBD is causing some people to have psycotic episodes or rather its triggering them easier because CBD counteracts THC, so we have pretty much bread CBD syntase out of cannabis, therefore the effects of THC are greater, even dispirit the actual THC content going up.

I mean don't get me wrong, it possible but I don't think its very probable... but just as the old saying goes "too much of anything isn't good" who knows how this will pan out 50 years down the line....

 

[Icemud]

I looked into Humic acids breifly and its used with all kinds of animals for different things, and doesn't show any carcinogen or mutagenic activities. It seems like a very safe product as it pretty much is just broken down plant materials that are turned into a coal like rock over many years, and then extracted from the rock.

It seems like a fairly safe product and I didn't see anything worth mentioning of harm involved with humic acids.

All it does for plants is acts as a chelate which helps absorb ions for uptake by the plant.

 

[TheFertilizer]

I looked into Humic acids breifly and its used with all kinds of animals for different things, and doesn't show any carcinogen or mutagenic activities. It seems like a very safe product as it pretty much is just broken down plant materials that are turned into a coal like rock over many years, and then extracted from the rock.

It seems like a fairly safe product and I didn't see anything worth mentioning of harm involved with humic acids.

All it does for plants is acts as a chelate which helps absorb ions for uptake by the plant.

Thanks for checking it out. It's not that I inherently trust anyone's word over this guy's, but I mean, I didn't really agree with what he was saying and it's like butting heads to question him, so wanted a second opinion.

I am still concerned with the molybdenum content of EJ's cal mag suppliment though. I've always heard that molybdenum isn't really good to have in crops that you're going to eat, but then again maybe these are actually low levels; pretty low compared to other nutrients I've used. The lead does seem a little high though.

Speaking of nutrients, I've been trying to incorporate epsom salts into my regimen because I'm pretty convinced that I need more sulfur, and I believe the "sulfate" side of that supplies it. I know that "salt" is a bit of a misnomer with this product, but I am wondering if it has any detrimental effect on my beneficial bacteria. Any opinions on that?

I still gotta check out those enzymes you were mentioning. Also I think after looking at your numbers, I'm running about half of what you do on most of the other nutrients. I'm doing 15 mL/Gal of Grow or Bloom based on phase, and then everything else gets added at 5 mL/Gal. I think I might kick it up a bit on the non-base ingredients, but not sure about doing that with the OilyCann.


My biggest worry with us creating so many hybrids with indoor conditions is that when people import our seeds into other countries with less legal laws, and being guerrilla growing, is that like, going to end up destroying landraces as they exist? Not really destroy I guess, but more like, replace. It's like the borg coming to assimilate.

 

[Governmentchz]

It's practically happened in Jamaica (i.e. the infiltration of dutch seed stock to the point of practically eliminating indigenous land race strains).

 

[Icemud]

Thanks for checking it out. It's not that I inherently trust anyone's word over this guy's, but I mean, I didn't really agree with what he was saying and it's like butting heads to question him, so wanted a second opinion.

I am still concerned with the molybdenum content of EJ's cal mag suppliment though. I've always heard that molybdenum isn't really good to have in crops that you're going to eat, but then again maybe these are actually low levels; pretty low compared to other nutrients I've used. The lead does seem a little high though.

Speaking of nutrients, I've been trying to incorporate epsom salts into my regimen because I'm pretty convinced that I need more sulfur, and I believe the "sulfate" side of that supplies it. I know that "salt" is a bit of a misnomer with this product, but I am wondering if it has any detrimental effect on my beneficial bacteria. Any opinions on that?

I still gotta check out those enzymes you were mentioning. Also I think after looking at your numbers, I'm running about half of what you do on most of the other nutrients. I'm doing 15 mL/Gal of Grow or Bloom based on phase, and then everything else gets added at 5 mL/Gal. I think I might kick it up a bit on the non-base ingredients, but not sure about doing that with the OilyCann.


My biggest worry with us creating so many hybrids with indoor conditions is that when people import our seeds into other countries with less legal laws, and being guerrilla growing, is that like, going to end up destroying landraces as they exist? Not really destroy I guess, but more like, replace. It's like the borg coming to assimilate.

Humans need molybdenum in their diet infact when I was looking this up there is an area in Asia that lacks molybdenum in the soil and people of this area have a very high risk of throat cancer because of it. Its essential to humans diets, just like plants and everything I read about it said it was non toxic and not harmful. Now do we want to smoke a lot of it... probably not, but its virutally harmless and nothing to be concerned with. Its an essential micronutrient for plants and humans....

Earth juice micro has plenty of sulfur in it, as its a bunch of ionic sulfates... I highly recommend EJ Microblast. I rarely use espom salts with the regiment above. If I do add any its usually near the end of the grow to help flush the soil and drive the terps. (magnesium sulfate is commonly sold as a "flush" product" the way the ion charges are it "knocks" other ions loose out of the soil.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Humans need molybdenum in their diet infact when I was looking this up there is an area in Asia that lacks molybdenum in the soil and people of this area have a very high risk of throat cancer because of it. Its essential to humans diets, just like plants and everything I read about it said it was non toxic and not harmful. Now do we want to smoke a lot of it... probably not, but its virutally harmless and nothing to be concerned with. Its an essential micronutrient for plants and humans....

Earth juice micro has plenty of sulfur in it, as its a bunch of ionic sulfates... I highly recommend EJ Microblast. I rarely use espom salts with the regiment above. If I do add any its usually near the end of the grow to help flush the soil and drive the terps. (magnesium sulfate is commonly sold as a "flush" product" the way the ion charges are it "knocks" other ions loose out of the soil.

That's good to know then, maybe I'll just cut the epsom salts then. I think I just had some leftover sulfur def issues on my flowering plant from when I switched over to FloraNova to EJ's 5 part line. I got OilyCann and Bloom Master In addition to those five.

I've been doing

15 mL/G Bloom
5 mL/G Grow
5 mL/G Catalyst
5 mL/G Micro Blast
5 mL/G Meta-K
5 mL/G OilyCann
5 mL/G Molasses
1.25 mL/G Bloom Master

For my flower plant and for my veg plants

15 mL/G Grow
5 mL/G Bloom
5 mL/G Catalyst
5 mL/G Micro Blast
5 mL/G Meta-K
5 mL/G OilyCann
5 mL/G Molasses

I think I might try upping the other inputs to 10 mL/G

 

[RickyBBobby]

Thanks for answering my questions a few pages back.

I just want to throw my own experience in here real quick-

Same 240ppm CS as everyone else is using. Diluted with distilled water- 3 parts water and one part CS in a small blue misty sprayer.

Started treatment on a small clone on 4/1 one day before 12/12. Sprayed daily and sometimes twice, good soaking, for 14 days and stopped. Pistils almost completely non existent and 97% pollen sacks growing in week 3 and shooting pollen the following week. Tons and tons and tons of pollen. I was a little to fast and lose with the pollen and accidently pollinated my entire flower room. Oops. I can see seeds forming on all plants. The clones that I purposely pollinated are just sticks of solid seed buds. They should be ready by next week I think. The calyxes are starting to split to show the seeds inside. I am thinking I will be 7 or 8 weeks from first CS treatment to harvested seeds. As to whether or not they are all female I don't know but from the experiences I see here I am confident they will be.

Thanks for all the info, worked like a charm.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Hey Icemud, is this what it looked like for you when the pollen sacs started forming? It's almost like it's changing from a calyx into a pollen sac. That pistil is sticking out of the end.

 

[Icemud]

Hey Icemud, is this what it looked like for you when the pollen sacs started forming? It's almost like it's changing from a calyx into a pollen sac. That pistil is sticking out of the end.

That definitely looks like a pollen sack to me Nice~~!

 

[TheFertilizer]

Yeah it's weird because on the opposite side it still looks like a calyx, but that side definitely has that weird, striped kind of look of a pollen sac. Would be too hard to get a pic of the other side, but I have found two like this so far, so I think it's finally reversing

 

[Icemud]

Day 9 Flowering

Well it looks like GDP is changing fast... Its very hard to tell from the photos I took with my phone, but the pistils are already showing signs of slightly thicker bottoms which are more yellow green than white. It's definitely flowering much different than a normal female would, so Bruce here, or I should say Backwards Bruce is starting to transform!!


I fed all of the girls, except the Candyland yesterday my earth juice tea that had been bubbling for 72 hours. I was going to feed them at 48 hours but they weren't quite ready yet so I figured I would wait an extra day to really have them thirsty

I didn't feed the Candyland because it still is quite a young plant so the soil is quite moist, plus its sooooo temperamental that I don't even wanna look at it wrong...




All of the plants today looked nice and happy and had great leaf posture except for the Harlequin which also is just a very unhappy and picky plant so its going through a few things, and my Ogiesel which was stressed about 2 weeks ago from a little low of a ph feeding so now its on the recovery. Overall though, things are looking great and I couldn't be happier that the GDP (Backwards Bruce) is already showing its ready for change and all of the plants are showing nice preflowers and some like my Tangie are already showing nice full flower sets

Well that's about all for today, so without further aideu, lets give a warm welcome too......

Grand Daddy Bruce and the Pollen Chucker Pinups!!! (crowd goes wild)

LMAO!


I do apologize for the clarity on these, I will take a ton of pics tomorrow to see if I can get a much cleaner photo...

 

[Icemud]

Thanks for answering my questions a few pages back.

I just want to throw my own experience in here real quick-

Same 240ppm CS as everyone else is using. Diluted with distilled water- 3 parts water and one part CS in a small blue misty sprayer.

Started treatment on a small clone on 4/1 one day before 12/12. Sprayed daily and sometimes twice, good soaking, for 14 days and stopped. Pistils almost completely non existent and 97% pollen sacks growing in week 3 and shooting pollen the following week. Tons and tons and tons of pollen. I was a little to fast and lose with the pollen and accidently pollinated my entire flower room. Oops. I can see seeds forming on all plants. The clones that I purposely pollinated are just sticks of solid seed buds. They should be ready by next week I think. The calyxes are starting to split to show the seeds inside. I am thinking I will be 7 or 8 weeks from first CS treatment to harvested seeds. As to whether or not they are all female I don't know but from the experiences I see here I am confident they will be.

Thanks for all the info, worked like a charm.

Hey RickyBBobby! good to see ya and really appreciate you sharing your experience too! So I would guess that your ppm was probably around 80ppm (give or take some)... did you see any leaf curling or severe stress at the higher concentration?

The reason I ask is my first and 2nd runs, I was using 50 and didn't really see to much leaf stress, but the pistils were... this run I'm using what I would guess to be around 70ppm or higher and I'm seeing quite a bit of leaf stress.. so this is why I ask...

That's awesome that you only did 14 days of spraying and stopped. I'm thinking that I probably could do the same the way things are looking with the GDP this run(only on day 9) but definitely seeing it start to change already!

Your seeds you create should be all female. So far I have some testers out from my first run, and all of them so far that have been germinated by different growers, in different systems and different grow methods all have been female.. now I only have maybe about 15 or so total that have been germinated out of probably a thousand or so seeds, so its still early to tell but so far, 100% have been female (used the same method, just 50ppm CS and sprayed till pollen sacks were in a nice cluster, so about till day 21 or so).

****now with that being said, I do have a buddy who is running some of my gear, but has a ton of different plants and projects going on with many genetics from different sources. During his last flowering run, some of the plants that were near the Black and Tanges got pollenated. He said all the Black and Tanges did flower and looked female, and never found the source of where the pollen came from, but it also was the first run of the Black and Tanges too, so its possible they were the source, but it wasn't confirmed by him either so its not really known, but possible... so I figured I would mention it as a word to the wise to test them out or pheno hunt separate from other plants and keep a close watch, just in case....

My tangie seeds came from a buddy who got them from someone he knows, but he didn't know how they were bred. I popped 8 seeds, all started out female, but 2 of the 8 became hermies, while 6 remained female. There were no males so they were either made with CS, STS, silver nitrate, or rodelization so they were feminized beans. 2 of the 8 were hermies...one showed pollen sacks almost right away, but the other tangie was much sneakier and actually showed hermie traits about 30 days into flowering, and I only noticed while doing maintenance and hit a branch and poof (yellow dust everywhere). I immediately hosed the whole tent down with plain water to deactivate the pollen so most of the buds ended up without seeds, but the plants that were close proximity did become seeded. (these seeds are labeled as hermies and most likely wont be used).

I think you should get mostly females, and I don't know enough about the science behind how all that works, and what actually determines sex organs in the plant since we know that females can change... one of these days I will get indulged in this and learn more

 

[Icemud]

Yeah it's weird because on the opposite side it still looks like a calyx, but that side definitely has that weird, striped kind of look of a pollen sac. Would be too hard to get a pic of the other side, but I have found two like this so far, so I think it's finally reversing

So here is what my 1st run looked like on day 14 of flowering from the flip...so here is what to look forward too but I also wanted to put a pic up so you can compare. To me it definitely looks like a pollen sack sweet!!!!!

 

[Icemud]

Here is a quick photo of my other tent with all 11 of my strains/cultivars

In the tent we have: GDP, Candyland, Mendo Grape Kush, Black Cherry Soda, Harlequin, Trainwreck, Tangie, Ogiesel, Gorilla Glue #4 and Race Fuel OG

******I'm not doing a journal on this tent right now, as it will be a while before they are ready for flowering, and its a lot of work to keep 2 journal s going, and vegging plants are kind of boring, so I will just periodically post the pics here as we continue the seed project!