Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing & Review

Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

GandalfWhite said:
Doozy,
What makes you think that the folks at Intelligent-Gro are "charlatans"? I browsed their website and didn't notice any mention of the manufacturing location for their lights. There are relatively few items designed and sold by US companies that are NOT manufactured, in whole or in part, elsewhere in the world. As someone who spent over 32 years with a US based manufacturer, I am not particularly happy about this situation but it is simply a fact of life in 2014.
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So let me get this straight, what these companies are doing is OK, because they don't divulge the fact that they are simply repackaging Chinese produced light and making a HUGE profit in the process?

If they were honest, and sold them at smaller profit margin, on the basis that they are US based and offer a warranty, and US based customer service, I'd be fine with that. But this is not the case. They imply they produce the lights themselves, when they do nothing more than rebrand and repackage them, then charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars for what amounts to putting a unit in a new box.

If you think this is acceptable fine, but I sure as hell don't.

Anyway, I'm not going to hijack icemuds thread anymore, as I said he's a good guy, but this is happening all to often and it's giving LED's a bad name. I just wish there was more honesty in this area of the growing industry.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Doozy said:
Yeah right, another LED seller gets exposed for repackaging Chinese units, then claims the Chinese company stole the idea from him in the first place.

Same old story. Wake up people. Expose this charlatan before anyone else gets ripped off.

No offence to Icemud, you seem like a decent guy, but come on man!! The writing is on the wall here. It's as clear as day.

And you Dave, well I just hope you can sleep at night mate. Try getting a proper job.
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All I can say to this is I am reporting the information that I am finding out. As mentioned in my post, the "idea theft" is a speculation on my part based on so far the information available as well as what David told me over the phone. If I find out more information I will gladly share it, but this has been extremely stressful on my part having to even worry about all this in the first place. My goal, is to be fair to everyone and do a honest journal, with the right information, which is why my apology to everyone for being incorrectly informed led me too reciting this information to 420 mag. Also part of my responsibility as a test grower is to report my findings, whether mechanical, technical, company related or the background information that helps us growers make a more educated decision on what LED to buy.

If the writing on the wall was clear as day, none of us would be having this discussion, and I wouldn't have had to waste an entire day tracking down the truth, speaking with the president of CTlite, spending time over the phone with intelligent gro and writing my correction of my misled information to 420 Mag. The facts are the facts and if it is clear as day, somehow I have welding goggles on.

I have been trying to do my best at reporting what is brought to my attention, so please don't give me responses like "come on man" as I am trying to do my very best with everything I can to make a good journal and host accurate information that can influence your buying decision, whether positive or negative.

(if you have some ground breaking truths or knowledge that backs up your claim of "clear as day" please do share it as we are all here together to determine what products will help and which ones we can pass)

If you have researched LED companies, you will realize NONE of the information is "clear as day" and just about every LED website hosts conflicting information.. So I hope you can appreciate someone like me who is doing their best to get this information to the public...this is why I just dropped 300$ on a PAR meter and did the tests immediately, and why I bought a IR thermometer to show operating temps, and a kill a watt meter to show draw wattage and amps. None of this was required by any of the sponsors, I took it upon myself to be as helpful and informative as I can.

I can't be blamed for the mis-information that I have been given, and what I put on that long post is the truth that I knew and had gathered at the time that it was written.

Also, regardless of any of this conflicting BS that has stressed me out over the past few days, My Intelligent Gro lights are working, and working well. As my PAR meter readings showed, the PAR readings advertised by Igro are relatively accurate and the true test of the lights can be shown by all the tricomes on my rock hard dense buds. So overall, the panels work...and I post the information so that everyone can decide what route they want to go...
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Its sad to see people just finding this out. US has always done this and made huge amounts of money off of miss leading the US. I wish you the best Icemud and a I am sorry to see all this land on your lap. You are a straight up guy. Here's a little info for you guys and you will see nothing different with theses company's using made in the USA to make sales.

For example, while Jeep's Patriot may be built in Belvedere, Ill., its transmissions originate in Mexico, Japan and Germany. Similarly Ford's Michigan-assembled Mustang may be as American as mom, Marines, and apple pie, but its transmissions come from China, France, the U.K., and Mexico. Chrysler's PT Cruiser isn’t even built in the U.S. – it’s assembled in Toluca, Mexico, though its transmission is U.S.-sourced. GM, meanwhile, builds its Chevy Camaro in Canada and its GMC Sierra pickup in Mexico.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

This was copied from Business dot com..

Corporate espionage. IP compromise. Patent infringement. Call it what you will, but it all boils down to the same common denominator — theft.

That’s the message western governments have been sending to businesses interested in doing business in China, even while promoting the importance of engaging the emerging market as the newest frontier in export development and economic growth.

Last year, the U.S. government issued a scathing report on the state of U.S. intellectual property theft, which noted quite explicitly that “For a variety of historical reasons… as well as because of economic and commercial practices and official policies aimed to favor Chinese entities and spur economic growth and technological advancement, China is the world’s largest source of IP theft.”

China fundamentally does not believe in a Western-type rule of law system

In quantifying the extent of the problem, the report estimated China is behind 50% to 80% of IP theft cases globally, costing the U.S. economy $300-billion every year and millions of jobs.

Washington isn’t alone in pointing fingers. Canada’s federal government, while making chummy diplomatic visits to Beijing and planting seeds for future bilateral trade agreements, asks Canadian business leaders to maintain a healthy degree of vigilance when doing business in China.

Take, for example, this excerpt from the transcript of a video developed by the Federal Trade Commissioner Service in China as an educational tool:

“Here are some problems your fellow Canadian companies have encountered: Example 1 – Someone registers your trademark. Yes, that is exactly how it sounds. You can no longer use your name in China. Not too much you can do about it either, except to scrap all that marketing material you just printed. Example 2 – Someone has copied your website. Word for word, photo for photo. Think your existing clients can tell the difference?”

The trade commissioner service also notes on its website that, “China fundamentally does not believe in a Western-type rule of law system and is becoming increasingly adept at implementing one only to the extent that it can help achieve domestic objectives.”Just how risky it is to do business in China is difficult to quantify. Given the unreliable and often self-serving nature of China’s information system, the number of IP-theft incidents is difficult to ascertain. However, according to blog China IPR, China’s State Intellectual Property Office places the number of patent disputes in 2012 at 2,510. Of these, 2,232 were patent infringement disputes. Data gathered by the World Intellectual Property Organization places China at the top of its rankings for both the source and the destination of IP filings in 2013.

Alberto Galasso, a professor at the University of Toronto Institute for Management and Innovation, says the bulk of patent disputes in China are brought about by Chinese companies — not western companies — against other Chinese companies. It’s a trend he views as indicative of the Asian giant’s evolution toward a more sophisticated IP-protection regime.

“The surge in patent litigation suggests that Chinese companies are learning to use patents to defend their technologies against national and foreign competitors,” he wrote in an email to the Financial Post. “It is not unlikely that this greater use of patents will trigger legal changes that will render more effective the Chinese court system.”
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Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Doozy said:
Nothing meant against you Icemud, thanks for your hard work and your journals, they help many people. I'm sure everyone realises that you're not a light producer and are just doing your best to document your findings.

Good luck with the rest of your grow :)
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Thank you Doozy! I am trying my best to sort through all this conflicting info so we can know exactly what we are buying.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

GandalfWhite said:
Doozy,
What makes you think that the folks at Intelligent-Gro are "charlatans"? I browsed their website and didn't notice any mention of the manufacturing location for their lights. There are relatively few items designed and sold by US companies that are NOT manufactured, in whole or in part, elsewhere in the world. As someone who spent over 32 years with a US based manufacturer, I am not particularly happy about this situation but it is simply a fact of life in 2014.
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It is the manner in which it is done Gandalf. He is basically a drop ship supplier who has built a website full of lies. None of the information is factual & he has had 0% input into the design of the light. He is wilfully deceiving people into buying something that is not as described. In the UK he would go to jail for his practices so if that's the US free market, you can keep it.

The problem Dave has created for himself here is picking some cheaply made lights to pass off as his own. This I have no doubt he is regretting greatly as we speak & I wouldn't be surprised if you never see or hear from him again, once his stock runs out.
Have you seen inside these units? COB's get notoriously hot and it is well known they have reliability issues yet the heatsink used to cool it is a tiny hollow fan design which is highly ineffective & is coupled with a tiny inefficient (but whisper quiet) PC fan on top. This is guaranteed to fail. The other internal components are all sub standard, including the controller & power supply which will also fail at an alarming rate.
We as growers need to stand together and rid the industry of fly by night chancers and show them that we're not easily fooled.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

The person I feel most sorry for in all of this is icemud. Here we have a genuinely nice guy with a great reputation who is being used as a promotional tool for these lights. He has been lied to & deceived into thinking these were something they are not. He has passed on this info, fully believing in these lights. Non of this is his fault, he is just unfortunate that his kind nature and desire to educate us fellow growers ultimately led to the wrong decision.
You're a top man icemud, so please don't let any of this get to you. :Namaste::peace:
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

skunnymonster said:
The person I feel most sorry for in all of this is icemud. Here we have a genuinely nice guy with a great reputation who is being used as a promotional tool for these lights. He has been lied to & deceived into thinking these were something they are not. He has passed on this info, fully believing in these lights. Non of this is his fault, he is just unfortunate that his kind nature and desire to educate us fellow growers ultimately led to the wrong decision.
You're a top man icemud, so please don't let any of this get to you. :Namaste::peace:
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I think it is ok to provide your experience on a specific light if your are doing a grow journal or you go to a product/sponsor thread and give your two cents but to go to someone else's grow journal and insult them is not cool. This is my opinion. Your opinion seems to be that he is not a sophisticated and knowledgeable grower but some sort of naive stooge and front man. You can pretend you are not insulting him but we both know you are. I of course disagree with your assessment but that is my opinion.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Icemud said:
All I can say to this is I am reporting the information that I am finding out. As mentioned in my post, the "idea theft" is a speculation on my part based on so far the information available as well as what David told me over the phone. If I find out more information I will gladly share it, but this has been extremely stressful on my part having to even worry about all this in the first place. My goal, is to be fair to everyone and do a honest journal, with the right information, which is why my apology to everyone for being incorrectly informed led me too reciting this information to 420 mag. Also part of my responsibility as a test grower is to report my findings, whether mechanical, technical, company related or the background information that helps us growers make a more educated decision on what LED to buy.

If the writing on the wall was clear as day, none of us would be having this discussion, and I wouldn't have had to waste an entire day tracking down the truth, speaking with the president of CTlite, spending time over the phone with intelligent gro and writing my correction of my misled information to 420 Mag. The facts are the facts and if it is clear as day, somehow I have welding goggles on.

I have been trying to do my best at reporting what is brought to my attention, so please don't give me responses like "come on man" as I am trying to do my very best with everything I can to make a good journal and host accurate information that can influence your buying decision, whether positive or negative.

(if you have some ground breaking truths or knowledge that backs up your claim of "clear as day" please do share it as we are all here together to determine what products will help and which ones we can pass)

If you have researched LED companies, you will realize NONE of the information is "clear as day" and just about every LED website hosts conflicting information.. So I hope you can appreciate someone like me who is doing their best to get this information to the public...this is why I just dropped 300$ on a PAR meter and did the tests immediately, and why I bought a IR thermometer to show operating temps, and a kill a watt meter to show draw wattage and amps. None of this was required by any of the sponsors, I took it upon myself to be as helpful and informative as I can.

I can't be blamed for the mis-information that I have been given, and what I put on that long post is the truth that I knew and had gathered at the time that it was written.

Also, regardless of any of this conflicting BS that has stressed me out over the past few days, My Intelligent Gro lights are working, and working well. As my PAR meter readings showed, the PAR readings advertised by Igro are relatively accurate and the true test of the lights can be shown by all the tricomes on my rock hard dense buds. So overall, the panels work...and I post the information so that everyone can decide what route they want to go...
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Nuff said!
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Ice

I normally see a post that size (your original one on this subject) and skip over it.
{im a terrible reader, and my grades showed it, no lol}
I am glad I read that one.

I am behind you 100% for what you have done and how you are handling things. BUT you sure muddied up the LED decision making process, lol

This should be journal of the year just for the intensity and time it takes you doing a test and reporting info as you learn it.

Before all this started blowing up I was going to mention about the 3 year warranty, what if he can't survive and is out of business in a year or two? Which could be a possibility now if people start shying away from him.

I worked in an antifreeze factory once and we canned (that's how long ago i'm talking) the majority of the antifreeze produced in the country. It was all advertized like special formulas, but the only thing different was the color. My only concern was did it work in my car.

Bottom line is are the lights working for you? Apparently so. And if they fail, I'm sure you'll let us know.

peace to you, dont let things upset you, You handled it just fine in my book :thumb:
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Billyjack said:
I think it is ok to provide your experience on a specific light if your are doing a grow journal or you go to a product/sponsor thread and give your two cents but to go to someone else's grow journal and insult them is not cool. This is my opinion. Your opinion seems to be that he is not a sophisticated and knowledgeable grower but some sort of naive stooge and front man. You can pretend you are not insulting him but we both know you are. I of course disagree with your assessment but that is my opinion.
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For starters, I have not insulted icemud, I've simply brought the matter of deceptive marketing to the attention of fellow growers. I have never questioned his growing skills and how you arrive at the opinion that I think he is not sophisticated & knowledgeable grower is baffling. Also at what point did I say he's a naive stooge & front man? Icemud is one of us!

That must be some serious sh*t you're smoking on the East coast dude, coz your assessment is fu**ed up.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

Goggle wouldn't be worried, don't they just censor it so their people can't get certain democratic information?
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

skunnymonster said:
It is the manner in which it is done Gandalf. He is basically a drop ship supplier who has built a website full of lies. None of the information is factual
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With all due respect, I have to disagree with this part of your statement.

I looked through the website and actually there is a bunch of very good information on there that is factual.

Check out the "how do plants use light" or "real tests real results" or "par spectrum 101" or even "money saved, money earned" on the Intelligent Gro website. That information is actually correct as far as I am aware, and its actually nice to see information like that on a website.

Also the "FAQ" section explains a lot of information as well, they even say what brand and wavelength chips are used, and even give part numbers, I've never seen this on any other LED company website. I mean overall they did a great job being as informative as they could to help educate the buyer.

So yeah, everywebsite has "marketing" and sales tactics on it, but I have to say, I cant agree that 0% of the information is factual, when in fact so far to me it looks pretty accurate, even the posted PAR readings are very close to what I just read.
 
Re: Icemud's Grow 8.0 - New Intelligent-Gro LED - 2 x IGRO-228 LED - Testing And Revi

skunnymonster said:
The person I feel most sorry for in all of this is icemud. Here we have a genuinely nice guy with a great reputation who is being used as a promotional tool for these lights. He has been lied to & deceived into thinking these were something they are not. He has passed on this info, fully believing in these lights. Non of this is his fault, he is just unfortunate that his kind nature and desire to educate us fellow growers ultimately led to the wrong decision.
You're a top man icemud, so please don't let any of this get to you. :Namaste::peace:
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Thanks Skunny, I appreciate your good words.

I honestly don't think I made any wrong decisions as even if all the "background" chit chat/speculation/uncertainties are on the table... My plants are showing that these lights work, regardless if they were made in China/US/or Antarctica...the fact is that they work, and so far my buds honestly look better than most past grows I have done, even with my slight lockout issue, they still look amazing. ((and I'm saving a ton of money on electricity over my HID's)

So overall I don't think I've been duped or deceived, I mean overall I am doing what I am supposed to, grow plants, see the results, report it to the community....and based on that, excluding all the other company related controversy, the lights are doing very well and I am impressed so far. I mean overall I am testing a LED light, and its ability to grow bud... and so far the lights are doing their job well.

As far as the who made what, and is this rebranded and all those types of questions, who knows what is the truth, and honestly to me, if the lights grow bud well, the company backs the product, the service is good, who cares where its made or who does what?

All electronic products have rates at which products fail, but is is how the company responds, corrects, supports and addressees the issue is what determines if the company will last, or if they will fail. So I know there is a lot of speculation/conspiracy/conversation on this but when you really look at the whole picture, the lights are fairly priced, their backed by a warranty, and can grow amazing buds.

I mean I have t-mobl for my phone carrier, they have horrible coverage, but the reason I stay with them is the customer service. Each consumer has their own personal interests in making a purchasing decision some may only want "name brand parts", some may just want facts, some may want an awesome warranty, I mean each consumer is different, and how the company handles these issues is why there is competition in the marketplace, each with their own successes.

Either way I do appreciate your concern for me and I know that you are entitled to your opinion and appreciate your kindness, but I want to make sure that this doesn't turn into a Igro bashing party because my lights are in fact doing what they are supposed to do, grow buds...

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