Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spectrum

[Graytail]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Heheh, I just realized that this is my social media, my faceplace or mybook or whatever.

I was about to point out that you're not one of the people who live here all the time, so your journal isn't the chatty kind.

And then it occurred to me that I know this, because I'm one of the people who live here all the time. Ha!


Haha!

And at 80+ pages, this journal isn't one of the longer ones, so I wouldn't wrap it up on that account, but I don' know what I'd do. I'm going to close mine and start another one, but I wound my grow completely down, so that's a firm break if I ever saw one.

In your case ... ... dunno. Heck ... new strains, new journal ... why not?


And heartfelt congratulations for landing yourself in such a fulfilling job position. Cool beans, Icemud! (That's an interesting twist on the Ice/Cold Genetics idea, hmm?) Cool Beans. I like it.


[Edit] And hey, think about a foliar with K in it for possible deficiencies. That way you don't mess up the soil.

 

[millertm]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Looking good Ice, and Doc never rants on my page, so you must be doing something right. Kidding Doc. How the heat in your part of the woods? It's getting to be a challenge up here in PNW.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Heheh, I just realized that this is my social media, my faceplace or mybook or whatever.

I was about to point out that you're not one of the people who live here all the time, so your journal isn't the chatty kind.

And then it occurred to me that I know this, because I'm one of the people who live here all the time. Ha!


Haha!

And at 80+ pages, this journal isn't one of the longer ones, so I wouldn't wrap it up on that account, but I don' know what I'd do. I'm going to close mine and start another one, but I wound my grow completely down, so that's a firm break if I ever saw one.

In your case ... ... dunno. Heck ... new strains, new journal ... why not?


And heartfelt congratulations for landing yourself in such a fulfilling job position. Cool beans, Icemud! (That's an interesting twist on the Ice/Cold Genetics idea, hmm?) Cool Beans. I like it.


[Edit] And hey, think about a foliar with K in it for possible deficiencies. That way you don't mess up the soil.

Yea I'm torn between spending a ton of time on here, and then again taking myself away from the computer too.... so I go through phases... I feel bad though because I don't spend enough time in other peoples journals and I miss out on a lot, but I just find it so hard to keep up... so I like just browsing the photos LOL "windows shopping" LOL

By the way, glad to hear from you Gray, I hope all is well in your life right now I am honestly in love with my job, even though I definitely could use better pay, I think I will just keep my yapper shut and keep showing my dedication and maybe it will pay off, and if not, at least the experience and knowledge I am gaining in many areas will definitely help me in the future

Wow, Cool Beans is dope too! so many options but I like that one a lot too I have so many ideas that I just need to focus on 1 or 2 of them and get it going I still want to build LED lights too, but i realize the capital required to do that is far more than I have right now, so the seed route may actually be a better start since it has very little start up cost. I will have to look into the legalities of seed production and sales as I'm not sure if its recognised or not by the new MMRSA laws here in cali...

I know that with any MJ related business, the money, banking and merchant accounts is the biggest hassle so hopefull with the upcomming november election and if the DEA ever gets off its ass and reschedules MJ or dropps it from controlled substance list, then it will open up the financial sector. Hopefully they do drop it off the list instead of rescheduleing because if they lower the scheduling, it will change the overseeing from the DEA to the FDA which then will come in with its own set of regulations and screw a lot up for us small time personal growers even the lighting industry making "plant lights" has trouble with the banking and merchant aspect so I know seeds would even be more difficult but I guess there are plenty of dispensaries locally that could vend my seeds if I get into that

I'm hoping to establish some killer strains by the time the company I work for gets everything constructed and in operation. I would love to have them grow my strain, because then I could collect licensing fees Not that money drives me but having more than I do would be nice so I could actually get away on a vacation, or have a car that I don't have to pray each time I drive it that it doesn't break..LOL the life... haha

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Looking good Ice, and Doc never rants on my page, so you must be doing something right. Kidding Doc. How the heat in your part of the woods? It's getting to be a challenge up here in PNW.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420

Hey Millertm! thanks for the compliments I wasn't talking about Doc ranting... I was talking about me... LOL there have been some moments of extreme frustration with life that I have used my journal as a venting method, and all of my friends here and fellow members really helped me through some tough times... which I truly appreciate

Man, its been hot here in Socal... even by the coast... its been in the 90s and even hit close to 100 a few days... my tents have been very hot, up in the 90's as well, but there isn't much I can do about the heat, and it doesn't seem to really be effecting the plants too much, other than slowing down water usage as I am sure the stomata are staying closed quite a bit more than usual. I've just been careful with overwatering and using the pot lifting method to make sure which has been workign well. I hope that the temps cool down, as I am literally sweating typing this post... no AC sucks... well I have a portible one, but the electric bills are so high when I run it, I try just to deal with the heat... I guess its one way to rid my body of toxins... sweat it out! hahah

I hope all is well with you

 

[drcannabi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Hey brother Ice. This is a purely objective. I feel like perpetual grows are great for having a home base. But I also believe all other endeavors where we're trying to help people with specific strains or growing techniques, are better served in a specific journal.

Just my 2 cents. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but I prefer specifics over talking about bbq and the state of muskrats in Wisconsin lol.

That said, your journal is as clean as it gets and you have so much info in here, I'd hate to have to re-explain your tech knowledge.

I'm following along regardless lol!

This isn't a rant my friends. Trust me, you'll know when I go on a rant lol!

I love this community! We're all works in progress

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

This isn't a rant my friends. Trust me, you'll know when I go on a rant lol!

I love this community! We're all works in progress

But the question is, do those muskrats in wisconsin like weed? hahaha j/k

 

[Teslarossi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Just wanted to give you a little bit of gold that I found while researching the effects of white light on plant tissues. A common misunderstanding that I see often in these forums is the idea that red and blue light are absorbed strongly by a plant whereas green is not... when probed, the usual explanation is "plants are green so they reflect green light".

OK that's the problem. The actual answer is a little more 3 dimensional. Plant matter contains chloroplast and pigments in a fairly diffused manner throughout the entire depth of the leaf, not so much a 2 dimensional layer on the surface. When the pigments refract the light it increases the distance that the light travels through the leaf thus increasing the chance that a photon will encounter a chloroplast and be absorbed. Red light, commonly cited as the most readily absorbed has the opposite effect, very little refraction adds an inverse relationship to the absorbtion... as you can see, things are rarely as simple as they appear.

Quote: "The diffusive nature of leaf tissues increases the light path length (détour effect) and thereby the opportunity for light to encounter chloroplasts, leading to the increase in absorptance (Vogelmann 1993)."

Source: PCP


I thought I'd throw that into the pool of ideas, understanding the effect that green light has on plants is the puzzling part... it does appear that green light is absorbed by accessory pigments rather than chloraphyl a or b then passed to one of them, I can't find the article on accessory pigments but I'm sure that it's a less efficient process with the advantage of the plant being able to correctly place the energy according to it's present needs.

I'm very much looking forward to your mixed light run, my understanding is that you will be providing the plants with a very efficient energy source and a 'mobile' one... very interesting.

Sent from my SM-G900F using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[millertm]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Just wanted to give you a little bit of gold that I found while researching the effects of white light on plant tissues. A common misunderstanding that I see often in these forums is the idea that red and blue light are absorbed strongly by a plant whereas green is not... when probed, the usual explanation is "plants are green so they reflect green light".

OK that's the problem. The actual answer is a little more 3 dimensional. Plant matter contains chloroplast and pigments in a fairly diffused manner throughout the entire depth of the leaf, not so much a 2 dimensional layer on the surface. When the pigments refract the light it increases the distance that the light travels thus increasing the chance that a photon will encounter a chloroplast and be absorbed. Red light, commonly cited as the most readily absorbed has the opposite effect, very little refraction adds an inverse relationship to the absorbtion... as you can see, things are rarely as simple as they appear.

Quote: "The diffusive nature of leaf tissues increases the light path length (détour effect) and thereby the opportunity for light to encounter chloroplasts, leading to the increase in absorptance (Vogelmann 1993)."

Source: PCP


I thought I'd throw that into the pool of ideas, understanding the effect that constant refraction of light has on plant growth is really the interesting part. If only I knew... it does appear that green light is absorbed by acessory pigments rather than cloraphyl a or b then passed to one of them, I can't find the article on acessory pigments but I'm sure that it's a less efficent process with the advantage of the plant being able to correctly place the energy according to it's present needs.

I'm very much looking forward to your mixed light run, my understanding is that you will be providing the plants with a very efficent energy source and a 'mobile' one... very interesting.

Sent from my SM-G900F using 420 Magazine Mobile App

Good insight Teslarossi. I believe the current thought is green light helps in leaf tissue development. While not actively contributing to photosynthesis it is missed if not there. Early LED lights warped and grew thick leafs, while photosynthesis was running with red and blue light, leaf development was suspect. Green light will play a roll in leaf maturity, with proper leaf development photosynthesis is optimized and yields increase. Great write up.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420

 

[Teslarossi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Very interesting millertm, i didnt know that about the old style leds. I'm wondering if the absence of green light in these early led panels forced the plant to grow thick leaves in order to absorb more light due to lower levels of refraction. I can't help but wonder if lower levels of green light during vegetative state would overdrive photosynthesis when extra green light was introduced during the flowering stage.

I'm not suggesting that we should go back to those dodgy led panels that grew leaves so thick that they warped... perhaps just a regular blurple in veg and a supplimental white in flower like icemud has set up now.

I do love ice's grows, it's always good to see someone trying new things... it's the only way we ever progress!

Sent from my SM-G900F using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[Gaffle]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Give a shout when new journal starts Ice. I would be more than happy to follow. Some of these perpetual journals are years long these days and I personally don't have the time to read all that jazz. A freshy sound good!

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Just wanted to give you a little bit of gold that I found while researching the effects of white light on plant tissues. A common misunderstanding that I see often in these forums is the idea that red and blue light are absorbed strongly by a plant whereas green is not... when probed, the usual explanation is "plants are green so they reflect green light".

OK that's the problem. The actual answer is a little more 3 dimensional. Plant matter contains chloroplast and pigments in a fairly diffused manner throughout the entire depth of the leaf, not so much a 2 dimensional layer on the surface. When the pigments refract the light it increases the distance that the light travels through the leaf thus increasing the chance that a photon will encounter a chloroplast and be absorbed. Red light, commonly cited as the most readily absorbed has the opposite effect, very little refraction adds an inverse relationship to the absorbtion... as you can see, things are rarely as simple as they appear.

Quote: "The diffusive nature of leaf tissues increases the light path length (détour effect) and thereby the opportunity for light to encounter chloroplasts, leading to the increase in absorptance (Vogelmann 1993)."

Source: PCP


I thought I'd throw that into the pool of ideas, understanding the effect that green light has on plants is the puzzling part... it does appear that green light is absorbed by accessory pigments rather than chloraphyl a or b then passed to one of them, I can't find the article on accessory pigments but I'm sure that it's a less efficient process with the advantage of the plant being able to correctly place the energy according to it's present needs.

I'm very much looking forward to your mixed light run, my understanding is that you will be providing the plants with a very efficient energy source and a 'mobile' one... very interesting.

Sent from my SM-G900F using 420 Magazine Mobile App

Great writeup Teslarossi! You are exactly correct, and I've been saying this for some time now. The suns spectrum actually is heaviest in the green area, which is why I never understood why the early LED grow lights left this section of the spectrum out. Green because it is more easily reflected than red or blue makes its way not only further into the leaf mesophyll to penetrate to the lower chloroplast stacks but it also reflects into the lower canopy much easier where blue and red are typically absorbed right away and don't make it down to the lower canopy as easily.

Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green

Ichiro Terashima1,*, Takashi Fujita1, Takeshi Inoue1, Wah Soon Chow2 and Riichi Oguchi1,2,3

+
Author Affiliations

1Department of Biological Sciences, Graduate School of Science, The University of Tokyo, 7-3-1 Hongo, Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo, 113-0033 Japan
2Photobioenergetics Group, School of Biology, College of Medicine, Biology and Environment, The Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia

*Corresponding author: E-mail, itera@biol.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp; Fax, +81-3-5841-4465.

Received January 4, 2009.
Accepted February 24, 2009.

Abstract

The literature and our present examinations indicate that the intra-leaf light absorption profile is in most cases steeper than the photosynthetic capacity profile. In strong white light, therefore, the quantum yield of photosynthesis would be lower in the upper chloroplasts, located near the illuminated surface, than that in the lower chloroplasts. Because green light can penetrate further into the leaf than red or blue light, in strong white light, any additional green light absorbed by the lower chloroplasts would increase leaf photosynthesis to a greater extent than would additional red or blue light. Based on the assessment of effects of the additional monochromatic light on leaf photosynthesis, we developed the differential quantum yield method that quantifies efficiency of any monochromatic light in white light. Application of this method to sunflower leaves clearly showed that, in moderate to strong white light, green light drove photosynthesis more effectively than red light. The green leaf should have a considerable volume of chloroplasts to accommodate the inefficient carboxylation enzyme, Rubisco, and deliver appropriate light to all the chloroplasts. By using chlorophylls that absorb green light weakly, modifying mesophyll structure and adjusting the Rubisco/chlorophyll ratio, the leaf appears to satisfy two somewhat conflicting requirements: to increase the absorptance of photosynthetically active radiation, and to drive photosynthesis efficiently in all the chloroplasts. We also discuss some serious problems that are caused by neglecting these intra-leaf profiles when estimating whole leaf electron transport rates and assessing photoinhibition by fluorescence techniques.

Other studies have showed that the absorption of light, red and blue are around 90% where green light is around 80% so initially there is very little difference between light wavelengths and absorption rates. Because green light and also Far red light are able to penetrate into the canopy much easier, they also help drive photomorpholocial effects in the plant such as "shade avoidance syndrome" which depending on the ratios of green and far red, the plant will stretch the lower branches up and out of the canopy to seek more intense lighting. I have a full writeup of green light and the effects, and if I have time later today after work I will try to dig it up and post it.

 

[Teslarossi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Awesome info ice, you really know your stuff. I can see why you got so interested in lighting/photosynthesis though, it's so damn interesting

Sent from my SM-G900F using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[drcannabi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

But the question is, do those muskrats in wisconsin like weed? hahaha j/k

Damn right they do lol! I love your vibe brother Ice. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm Goin to do with my red light. Mine is the led version. There are a lot of theories but not many real examples I can find. I'll be watching your next grow very closely. Learning lots bro! Thanks!

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Damn right they do lol! I love your vibe brother Ice. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm Goin to do with my red light. Mine is the led version. There are a lot of theories but not many real examples I can find. I'll be watching your next grow very closely. Learning lots bro! Thanks!

Right now I am using it for 4 hours in the middle of each daylight period... as its supposed to help enhance the rate of photosythesis through the emerson effect. Now both the GOD and COBs already put out far red light, and I have tried to find the right ratio's of red/far red that would be beneficial, but I haven't found any info yet. I don't really know if its doing anything or not in regards to helping the plants but they do seem really happy and have great color and leaf posture so who knows.. I wish I had room to do a side by side with 2 plants under a COB 4, and 2 plants under a COB 4 with Emerson Panel.. but just don't have the space and too many other projects with the seeds going.

I do plan on using it for a flower trigger though, and trying a 14/10 schedule for flowering this run, which should be interesting. I've run 13/11 schedules before with no problem but never tried 14/10 so it will be interesting. Again it would be nice to be able to do a side by side, but it will have to wait.

Either way, my plants seem really happy so I don't know if its the extra light, or mixed spectrum, or that they are young and being treated nicely, or the far red, or a combo of all of the above

When i have time I will try to look up more information on using FAR red and what the possibilities are, and I would love to find some info on cannabis and far red light for emerson effect and the ratios...

 

[drcannabi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Thank you for that response Icemud! I'm totally happy with 12x12, but I'm also open and willing to try new things. I'll be following along closely. Thanks for taking the plunge.

When you say 14 hours of light, are you running your main lights for 14 hours? That's a real leap of faith brother!

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Thank you for that response Icemud! I'm totally happy with 12x12, but I'm also open and willing to try new things. I'll be following along closely. Thanks for taking the plunge.

When you say 14 hours of light, are you running your main lights for 14 hours? That's a real leap of faith brother!

Right now I am running an 18/6 with the emerson coming on 6 hours after the start of day, on for 4 hours and off.

when I flip to flowering I will run a 14/10 schedule for flowering, with the emerson panel on for 2 hours after the daylight period ends. I think it only takes like 15 minutes to revert the photochrome, but I'm going to run the emerson for 2 hours anyways just to see if it works... and if it does, and the extra 2 hours of light makes a big difference economically in yield, then cool if it doesn't then maybe I will try it for shorter or with a regular schedule of 12/12 with Far red following the day... but I'm going to test it out at 14/10 and see what happens... everything I have read confirms this will work..

 

[Icemud]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Here is a little info the the morphological effects of far red to red ratios...

H
ORT
S
CIENCE
42(7):1609–1611. 2007.
End-of-day Lighting with Different
Red/Far-red Ratios Using Light-
emitting Diodes Affects Plant Growth
of
Chrysanthemum
·
morifolium
Ramat. ‘Coral Charm’
Janni Bjerregaard Lund
1
Department of Agricultural Sciences, Copenhagen University, Hoejbak-
kegaardalle 21, DK- 2630 Taastrup, Denmark
Theo J. Blom
Department of Plant Agriculture, University of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario,
Canada N1G 2W1
Jesper Mazanti Aaslyng
AgroTech A/S, Taastrup, Denmark
Additional index words.
LED, plant growth retardants, stem elongation, twilight
Abstract
. Controlling plant height without the use of plant growth retardants is one of the
goals in future production of potted plants. Light quality with a low red to far-red ratio
(R:FR) increases plant height. In this trial, the effects of light quality [R:FR ratio of 0.4,
0.7, and 2.4 (R = 600–700 nm, FR = 700–800 nm)] at the end of day were investigated on
potted chrysanthemums using growth chambers. After a 9-h photoperiod, the 30-min
end-of-day lighting was provided by light-emitting diodes at low irradiance by main-
taining either red = 1mmolm–2s–1(Rcon) or far-red = 1mmolm–2–
1(FRcon). After 3 weeks of end-of-day lighting, plants given the lowest end-of-day ratios (R:FR of 0.4 or 0.7)
were taller than control plants (R:FR = 2.4). For low ratios of R:FR (0.4), the actual
intensities of R and FR did not affect plant height, whereas for higher ratios of R:FR (0.7
and 2.4), plant height was greater for FR con than for Rcon. Leaf area of the lateral side
shoots was lower for plants treated with an R:FR of 0.4 compared with those of controls.
Dry weight, stem diameter, number of internodes, and number of lateral branches were
unaffected by the end-of-day ratio

 

[millertm]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

To many other unknowns in that study, or just abstract. Good thought process, look to were ratios of R:FR over 2 in real world (if existing) to see what grows. You think a lot like myself and follow rabitt holes all the way down. I love it.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420

 

[drcannabi]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Right now I am running an 18/6 with the emerson coming on 6 hours after the start of day, on for 4 hours and off.

when I flip to flowering I will run a 14/10 schedule for flowering, with the emerson panel on for 2 hours after the daylight period ends. I think it only takes like 15 minutes to revert the photochrome, but I'm going to run the emerson for 2 hours anyways just to see if it works... and if it does, and the extra 2 hours of light makes a big difference economically in yield, then cool if it doesn't then maybe I will try it for shorter or with a regular schedule of 12/12 with Far red following the day... but I'm going to test it out at 14/10 and see what happens... everything I have read confirms this will work..

I'm darn right excited to see this. I've been wanting to run mine but I don't have the chops to know what I'm doing. I'm rooting for a big win.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Re: Icemud LED Grow Featuring The All New Budmaster COB Technology - White Full Spect

Right now I am using it for 4 hours in the middle of each daylight period... as its supposed to help enhance the rate of photosythesis through the emerson effect. Now both the GOD and COBs already put out far red light, and I have tried to find the right ratio's of red/far red that would be beneficial, but I haven't found any info yet. I don't really know if its doing anything or not in regards to helping the plants but they do seem really happy and have great color and leaf posture so who knows.. I wish I had room to do a side by side with 2 plants under a COB 4, and 2 plants under a COB 4 with Emerson Panel.. but just don't have the space and too many other projects with the seeds going.

I do plan on using it for a flower trigger though, and trying a 14/10 schedule for flowering this run, which should be interesting. I've run 13/11 schedules before with no problem but never tried 14/10 so it will be interesting. Again it would be nice to be able to do a side by side, but it will have to wait.

Either way, my plants seem really happy so I don't know if its the extra light, or mixed spectrum, or that they are young and being treated nicely, or the far red, or a combo of all of the above

When i have time I will try to look up more information on using FAR red and what the possibilities are, and I would love to find some info on cannabis and far red light for emerson effect and the ratios...

OK...a couple more "tidbits" from Ed Rosenthal:

The chromaprotein that plants use, phytochrome, to determine flowering is a “dimer.” It has two versions, an “on” and an “off” version which are switched on and off by light. When subject to red light the dimer stays in the “off” position. When red light (660-680 nm) ceases, gradually over a 2 hour period it turns to its active state, which forces the plants into flowering.

Far red light (730nm) has the opposite effect. When plants are exposed to it in darkness the dimer immediately becomes active, or “on.” If a far-red light is shined over the plants immediately after dusk or the lights are turned out it saves 2 hours of dark time that the dimer would spend in transition. If the plants are receiving 9 hours of darkness and 15 hours of light outdoors, and the far-red light is shined on the plants immediately after dusk, it is like adding 2 hours to the dark period, giving the plants the equivalent of 11 hours of darkness, long enough to force flowering.

Far-red LEDs can be special ordered, this will not work unless the light is truly “far-red” or 730nm.

And, here's a little longer excerpt from his book:

Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Handbook