Humid Temperate Colombian Andes Greenhouse Organic Grow

[cbdhemp808]

I understand the concept of 13w bulbs.
At first I thought of the solar party lights, because it sounded like there would not be electrical power, and I wanted to try an off-grid solution.
It seems like the party lights might be suppressing flowering on the MB (because it is flowering time now), because the lights are directly over the MB. But not suppressing anything else.

Again, since your MB are relatively not very old (think 4 months in veg), they aren't ready to flower yet... not mature enough. How long have they been in veg?

Anyway, the party lights are too weak!

Thankfully, there is electric power. They put the greenhouse about maybe 50-60 yards/meters away from the contractor's house, probably so they could deter theft. (People do wander onto the farms at night, and stuff can come up missing.)
I figured the China-special LED light panels would bring the flowering under control quickly (like a tourniquet), and then we could come up with a better solution long term.
They are nominal 1500W or 1250W, in reality they draw like 150W or 125W.
There are six of them.

Should be an OK temporary solution, provided the light is reaching all the plants, and the plants are getting hit on the top and sides. Theoretically, the MB doesn't need night interruption.

The plan is that when the contractor's son returns from his winter break, he will route the party lights around the perimeter of the greenhouse. But probably it would be better to put a string of the 13W lamps, like you have, because the reality is that the party lights are not nearly as bright as I thought.

Yes, 13w should be good.

I went searching for the dimensions of your greenhouse.
Would you please tell me the dimensions again? (It looks like a good setup.)

Eight each 13W daylight spectrum bulbs for how big by how big??

The plants take up maybe half of the space in the greenhouse, and the lights are overhead in that space. I'll get a measurement for you soon.

I like your thought that Sativa CBD and Calima Diesel are really just two phenos of the same strain. That makes total sense.

The Breeders rep said their numbers were from a lab test.
Sativa CBD sounds good at 14% CBD, but I think I prefer the idea of Calima Diesel, which has almost as much CBD (13%), plus 6.8% THC.
(2:1 always works well for me. I always like to see a 2:1. And it is a diesel flavor...)

The big question is, will they show you the actual lab test results? Not many breeders or seed vendors will do that.

Hahaha, I think I may ALSO get seeds from GTR!

I have lots of seeds for the moment, but I WAS thinking about cloning...
Only, after seeing the way things run this past week, I wonder how well the contractor and his son can be relied upon for cloning at all.
I say that because first, he almost killed the transplants. He did not follow my instructions at all. And it seems that he cannot recognize a FLOWERING MALE in his grow? And he cannot recognize that it is ALSO getting eaten by bugs (and his son probably never even sprayed it once???
Oy, I am not convinced he knows anything about cannabis, or cloning, or that it will be done right.

Again, I get the distinct feeling that you should minimize what this guy is responsible for and let him operate in his lane, which seems to be growing the local landrace sativas. As for the lights on a timer, as long as the power is reliable at night, that should work... it's automatic and your dude doesn't need to be involved, until which time it's time to turn off the lights and let the Europeans flower.

As for cloning, this seems like something you should do. You could possibly take the cuttings on location, put them in their cloning pots, and then bring them home for tending them. When they are ready, up pot to 1 gal, then let them get established, then give to your guy on the mountain. All of this needs to be done with night interruption

Another possibility would be to set up hydroponic cloning at the greenhouse location. I haven't done this yet, but it involves a water bath with a bubbler, a tad bit of chlorine in the water, and some very light nutes. They need to be warm and with the right amount of light. Also, night interruption lighting. This setup is very low maintenance, and in 2-3 weeks you've got your clones rooted up.

I kind of need to keep the contractor because of the cash crops, BUT:
If I have to run night interruption lights one way or another, then I think I should go ahead and start the seeds myself the start of March, and then bring him the seedlings when I come to remix the soil.
And then we run night interruption all winter, so the girls get good and big.
And then just hand him more fem starts each March. And let him grow those out with night intteruption, and pull the lights in September.
It will cost some in seeds, but I have plenty of seeds right now. I just need to grow all of those seeds out.
And if I ever take the garden back over once we get settled, then I can run a proper clone and male tent.

It's getting confusing to me. Mango Biche... plant when the locals plant... night interruption not needed... plants flower when they are mature enough (4 months in veg?). On the other hand, I don't see why you couldn't just plant the Mango Biche anytime. Maybe that's what you did this time around.

Anything else you'd like to grow that isn't a tropical sativa landrace... you just plant whenever you want (because same night length year round)... use night interruption... pull the lights whenever the plants are big enough and you'd like to flower them.

I would say definitely give your dude starts, not seeds.

So I will just hand him seedlings each March or April...

I guess for Mango Biche that makes sense. For others, you can grow at any time of the year, and use night interruption. That's the beauty of the tropics, and what I do here in Hawaii, for my perpetual grow.

What you do need to also be concerned about is the "max solar altitude angle", which is the seasonal angle of the sun in the sky at "solar noon". When the sun is directly overhead (at noon-ish), the angle is 90°. This magically happens here in Hawaii on May 26 and July 15. So, it's best to time your important grows to span the sweet spot of maximum sunlight, which for us is April 1 through Sept. 15, with the peak between May 26 and July 15.

I used Pasto, Colombia, for these calculations...

In southern Colombia, solar noon (angle) of ~90° falls on March 23 and Sept. 19. (Sun is directly overhead.) Solar noon will be at 70° starting Jan. 25, and will reach 80° on Feb. 25. You've got lots of sun March, April, and May. All of June and half of July the solar noon is under 70°. By Aug. 23, solar noon is back to 80° again. All of Sept. and Oct. you've got lots of sun. By Nov. 16, you're back below 70° again, and same for Dec., until Jan. 25 again and the angle is 70°. [ source ]

So you see, you've got two sunny periods at your location, separated by June/July... cool!

Now also consider your rainy/cloudy months, because all of that blocks sunlight.

Once I use up the ones I have, then I will buy more. And hopefully I will be in a situation where I can clone by then, so I can maintain the GTR seeds. Because Sour Hawaiian Haze and Sour Lifter sound very good!
I am looking forward to Harlequin CBD, and Charlotte's Dream (Charlotte's Angel x Blue Dream). I loved Charlotte's Angel CBD Auto, just that the auto stocks are not always mold resistant.
Anyway, GTR is definitely on my purchasing radar! I just need to discipline myself, and grow out what I already have first. Haha, because I love buying cannabis seeds too much!
Haha, is there a 12-step group? Haha.

 

[CBDMed]

15 ft cords with socket and ON/OFF switch

Amazon.com

Bulbs

Amazon.com

Those would not ship, but I found someone else who makes a 24-pack, and got 24 pendants and 36 LED light bulbs.
They would not ship the light bulbs either, but I found a "daylight" (not full spectrum, but daylight, 5000k) that would ship and bought 36.

 

[CBDMed]

Yeah, a bit like that. The difference is, when the MB is mature enough to flower, you can still stop her from flowering using night interruption.





What I mean is, being a landrace sativa, the MB has a long life span... probably much longer than your other strains. So, when I say "young", I mean relatively young because of their long life span. So without night interruption, your other strains will go to flower sooner than the MB. Probably much sooner. Actually, it looks like it's already happening.

Ok, I was told you can grow plants for two years here (meaning you can strip the buds, and reveg one year).
But I have no knowledge if that is accurate (and people just say whatever here).
I need to run right now, but I found an article on equatorial plants on Sensi, and want to read it later (when I get time).
I have to run right now. I hope to be back soon.
I planted the first of the MB on October 15.
I put more MB on 1 Nov.
So vegging 2 months.
Need to run. Back later.

answered in my last reply.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Those would not ship, but I found someone else who makes a 24-pack, and got 24 pendants and 36 LED light bulbs.
They would not ship the light bulbs either, but I found a "daylight" (not full spectrum, but daylight, 5000k) that would ship and bought 36.

The size of the floor space that I'm lighting is 12 ft x 8 ft. So you could shoot for 10 bulbs per 100 sq ft., in rows.

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• • •

You could maybe stretch them more than that; however, this is the density that has proven to work in my veg house.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ok, I was told you can grow plants for two years here (meaning you can strip the buds, and reveg one year).
But I have no knowledge if that is accurate (and people just say whatever here).

I think this is definitely possible. I'm guessing they mean without night interruption to re-veg them, which would be amazing. Enough fan leaves need to remain for this to work.

I planted the first of the MB on October 15.
I put more MB on 1 Nov.
So vegging 2 months.

OK, so two months so far on the Oct. 15 ones, and they are not flowering yet. My guess is that they'll go 4 months before flowering.

In southern Colombia, solar noon (angle) of ~90° falls on March 23 and Sept. 19. (Sun is directly overhead.) Solar noon will be at 70° starting Jan. 25, and will reach 80° on Feb. 25. You've got lots of sun March, April, and May. All of June and half of July the solar noon is under 70°. By Aug. 23, solar noon is back to 80° again. All of Sept. and Oct. you've got lots of sun. By Nov. 16, you're back below 70° again, and same for Dec., until Jan. 25 again and the angle is 70°. [ source ]

You are heading into a good vegging period... Jan. & Feb... lots of overhead sun. Followed by even more sun March, April, May. Possible harvest in mid to late June?

 

[CBDMed]

This is basically the same crop timing as the northern latitudes... plant in spring, harvest in fall.

Sí.

The difference is that the landrace tropical sativa (Mango Biche) has a very long lifespan, probably at least 6 months. If they start flowering in September, four months later is in January. That's 17 weeks in flower, which is super long... maybe the longest any sativa is in flower, I don't know.

The Landrace Team says about Mango Biche:

Vegetative stage: 16 to 20 weeks
Flowering: 15 to 18 weeks
Aroma: Sweet green mango
Grow Type: Outdoors,Greenhouse, indoors (requires experience)
Characteristics: Well known throughout the world for its delicious aromas of sweet green mango, its effect is clear, cerebral, lysergic and psychedelic, has great growth vigour in optimal conditions. Very resistant to continuous rains, pests and fungi.

If we guess 4 months in veg, which is also super long, then the seeds are planted in May, and 4 months later is in September.

I just read that some Thai strains have a lifespan of over a year!

O was told that if you leave enough leaves, you can strip the buds and go for a second year.

RE: tropical sativa landraces
As I said, the mechanism is simply that they reach sexual maturity, and that's when they flower. Which apparently takes 4 or 5 months. So, the plants are getting big over the course of months in veg, and then they show their sex.

It's not the sun or the climate that triggers flowering. That's my understanding.

Your year-round night length of 12 hours ± 9 min is basically a constant. The 9 min isn't doing anything in terms of triggering flowering. That's my understanding.

If I understand what you are saying, when they get to a certain age, maybe they start to flower slowly, and they kind of half-flower and half-grow for a couple of years, until they die???
(I have no knowledge.)

Yeah, especially ones from a similar latitude and elevation.

 

[CBDMed]

Again, since your MB are relatively not very old (think 4 months in veg), they aren't ready to flower yet... not mature enough. How long have they been in veg?

Some since October 15, the rest since November 1st.
So at least 2 months (some 2-1/2 months).

Again, I get the distinct feeling that you should minimize what this guy is responsible for and let him operate in his lane, which seems to be growing the local landrace sativas. As for the lights on a timer, as long as the power is reliable at night, that should work... it's automatic and your dude doesn't need to be involved, until which time it's time to turn off the lights and let the Europeans flower.

Yes, I think he is comfortable digging holes, and watering plants. So we will let him do that.
(For now.)
I get the impression I am going to have to throw back to army days. I am going to have to give him written instructions, and make him report on progress (in an amicable, professional way, with a smile).
And he can water the plants, and help me mix dirt. That's it.

As for cloning, this seems like something you should do.

Yes.

You could possibly take the cuttings on location, put them in their cloning pots, and then bring them home for tending them. When they are ready, up pot to 1 gal, then let them get established, then give to your guy on the mountain. All of this needs to be done with night interruption

Yes, I had a night interruption cloning setup before, and can do it again.
If it makes it through the flowering in the greenhouse without mold I will be happy to keep NL CBD going forever. (I love that strain!)
If Pineapple Kush makes it through we can keep that cloning forever also.

Another possibility would be to set up hydroponic cloning at the greenhouse location. I haven't done this yet, but it involves a water bath with a bubbler, a tad bit of chlorine in the water, and some very light nutes. They need to be warm and with the right amount of light. Also, night interruption lighting. This setup is very low maintenance, and in 2-3 weeks you've got your clones rooted up.

I understand, but the greenhouse is about an hour away (each way) right now.
It seems I cannot trust these guys with anything more technologically advanced than a shovel, so I am not sure how they would handle a cloning machine.
If I do it right I can probably rig a cloning tray and make clones as I take them, spraying the inside of the clone dome, and then carry them home and put them under NIL.
Haha, then tend them 6 months until the next planting

It's getting confusing to me. Mango Biche... plant when the locals plant... night interruption not needed... plants flower when they are mature enough (4 months in veg?). On the other hand, I don't see why you couldn't just plant the Mango Biche anytime. Maybe that's what you did this time around.

No, I messed up this time around.
At least, IF you can trust what my contractor says (that his friend has a greenhouse and plants his "Moños" ("Buds") in late March and it grows on its own and starts to flower on its own in September), I think that is because the weather does get warmer in September.
I am trying to read a Sensi Seeds article about equatorial cannabis. They suggest that the tropical plants are able to pick up on other cues that signal summer. (That would seem consistent with everything so far.)

Anything else you'd like to grow that isn't a tropical sativa landrace... you just plant whenever you want (because same night length year round)... use night interruption... pull the lights whenever the plants are big enough and you'd like to flower them.

I would say definitely give your dude starts, not seeds.

I had big plans for him.
Now he will never know.

I guess for Mango Biche that makes sense. For others, you can grow at any time of the year, and use night interruption. That's the beauty of the tropics, and what I do here in Hawaii, for my perpetual grow.

What you do need to also be concerned about is the "max solar altitude angle", which is the seasonal angle of the sun in the sky at "solar noon". When the sun is directly overhead (at noon-ish), the angle is 90°. This magically happens here in Hawaii on May 26 and July 15. So, it's best to time your important grows to span the sweet spot of maximum sunlight, which for us is April 1 through Sept. 15, with the peak between May 26 and July 15.

I used Pasto, Colombia, for these calculations...

In southern Colombia, solar noon (angle) of ~90° falls on March 23 and Sept. 19. (Sun is directly overhead.) Solar noon will be at 70° starting Jan. 25, and will reach 80° on Feb. 25. You've got lots of sun March, April, and May. All of June and half of July the solar noon is under 70°. By Aug. 23, solar noon is back to 80° again. All of Sept. and Oct. you've got lots of sun. By Nov. 16, you're back below 70° again, and same for Dec., until Jan. 25 again and the angle is 70°. [ source ]

So you see, you've got two sunny periods at your location, separated by June/July... cool!

Now also consider your rainy/cloudy months, because all of that blocks sunlight.

Hahahaha, yeah!
And that is very nice, thanks for the kind thoughts!
If I was going for prizes, I would probably go for that.

Edit:
Only, for full disclosure, the ugly reality is that, here, I am probably not going to do any of that. Probably I am just going to turn on the night lights when I want to veg, and turn them off when I want to flower.
And I do not think I can do it this year, but in the long term I am going to try to get worked around so I can start my grows in March or April, and then start flowering in September. (I will not make it this year, obviously.)
And then we can see what genetics survive the mold torture test.
And then we clone and repropagate what we like (NL CBD), and try some different genetics for anything that does not make it (or that we do not like a lot).
I am probably just going to go with the same seasons as the locals do (as I am guessing that is probably healthiest for the plant).

Thanks for all of your help!!
The only thing is, if Sativa CBD and Calima are not equatorial strains, I STILL do not know why they do not need lights!
And can it REALLY be that they refuse to put lights, and instead end up with little dinky plants, and they think that is good????

I need to finish reading that Sensi article, but maybe tomorrow. I am thrashed for right now.
Long day.
Zzz

 

[CBDMed]

The size of the floor space that I'm lighting is 12 ft x 8 ft. So you could shoot for 10 bulbs per 100 sq ft., in rows.

........................................
........................................
........................................
........................................
........................................
• • •

You could maybe stretch them more than that; however, this is the density that has proven to work in my veg house.

OIC.
So, you have basically 15 bulbs in 100 square feet.
Edit: I ordered more bulbs.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The Landrace Team says about Mango Biche:

Vegetative stage: 16 to 20 weeks
Flowering: 15 to 18 weeks
Aroma: Sweet green mango
Grow Type: Outdoors,Greenhouse, indoors (requires experience)
Characteristics: Well known throughout the world for its delicious aromas of sweet green mango, its effect is clear, cerebral, lysergic and psychedelic, has great growth vigour in optimal conditions. Very resistant to continuous rains, pests and fungi.

That pretty much matched what I guessed... ~4 months veg, ~4 months flower.

RE: tropical sativa landraces
As I said, the mechanism is simply that they reach sexual maturity, and that's when they flower. Which apparently takes 4 or 5 months. So, the plants are getting big over the course of months in veg, and then they show their sex.

It's not the sun or the climate that triggers flowering. That's my understanding.

Your year-round night length of 12 hours ± 9 min is basically a constant. The 9 min isn't doing anything in terms of triggering flowering. That's my understanding.

If I understand what you are saying, when they get to a certain age, maybe they start to flower slowly, and they kind of half-flower and half-grow for a couple of years, until they die???
(I have no knowledge.)

No, when they reach about 4 months of veg, they have reached maturity, and then they start to flower.

Those flowers will be ready to harvest in about another 4 months.

After that, yes perhaps you can reveg the plant if there are enough leaves. Or maybe reveg isn't necessary... this is beyond my knowledge. In my mind, you'd have to reveg the plant and let it be in veg again for a while under night interruption lighting, then cut the lights and it would flower again. But maybe there's something weird going on with tropical sativa landraces where you just let them be and eventually they flower again, like a perennial. I don't know.

 

[cbdhemp808]

OIC.
So, you have basically 15 bulbs in 100 square feet.
Edit: I ordered more bulbs.

10 bulbs per 100 sq ft.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I am probably just going to go with the same seasons as the locals do (as I am guessing that is probably healthiest for the plant).

OK, but I was blown away that you have essentially two summers there! I'm equally blown away that here in Hawaii summer really starts in April and lasts until mid September—not June 22 to Sept. 22 (i.e. summer solstice and autumn equinox). Looking at the solar noon angles reveals the "solar summer" as opposed to the normal "astronomical summer". Now I need to also look up the day/night length for these dates!

Thanks for all of your help!!
The only thing is, if Sativa CBD and Calima are not equatorial strains, I STILL do not know why they do not need lights!

Because they are long lifespan sativas, and take a long time to reach maturity in veg. Then they flower. Just like Mango Biche. I think the breeders there are going for that, because they know most outdoor growers there are used to doing things this way. They are producing what the growers want.

And can it REALLY be that they refuse to put lights, and instead end up with little dinky plants, and they think that is good????

I'm guessing they end up with tall plants.

 

[CBDMed]

That pretty much matched what I guessed... ~4 months veg, ~4 months flower.

Good guessing!!

No, when they reach about 4 months of veg, they have reached maturity, and then they start to flower.

Those flowers will be ready to harvest in about another 4 months.

!
Wow. I did not know all that.

After that, yes perhaps you can reveg the plant if there are enough leaves. Or maybe reveg isn't necessary... this is beyond my knowledge. In my mind, you'd have to reveg the plant and let it be in veg again for a while under night interruption lighting, then cut the lights and it would flower again.

Yes, I was thinking that. Not sure if I want to do that, but it is a possibility.

But maybe there's something weird going on with tropical sativa landraces where you just let them be and eventually they flower again, like a perennial. I don't know.

Yes, it is possible. I am not sure what I am doing for the next grow yet. I think I need to see how this grow goes first.

 

[CBDMed]

OK, but I was blown away that you have essentially two summers there! I'm equally blown away that here in Hawaii summer really starts in April and lasts until mid September—not June 22 to Sept. 22 (i.e. summer solstice and autumn equinox). Looking at the solar noon angles reveals the "solar summer" as opposed to the normal "astronomical summer". Now I need to also look up the day/night length for these dates!

I do not know if this helps, but this is the website I used, for Honolulu.
It has some interesting charts.
(There are probably also other useful websites.)

Honolulu Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Hawaii, United States) - Weather Spark

In Honolulu, the summers are hot, oppressive, and dry; the winters are comfortable and humid; and it is windy and mostly clear year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 20 °C to 31 °C and is rarely below 17 °C or above 32 °C.

weatherspark.com

Because they are long lifespan sativas, and take a long time to reach maturity in veg. Then they flower. Just like Mango Biche. I think the breeders there are going for that, because they know most outdoor growers there are used to doing things this way. They are producing what the growers want.

Wow.
I had no clue.

I'm guessing they end up with tall plants.

Yes, right. That makes sense.
Because they plant in March or April, and it vegges all winter.
I think they said that the Moños ("Buds") was about 6 or 7 feet tall.
I guess we will see