Hubba Hubba! Bubba Hash & The Bright Lights Of Redemption: Amy's Indoor v2.0 With DBHBB

[MaddHacker]

..You live is such a magical place Ames.. I am def Jelly.. You get some of the most AWESOME natural home setting shots I have seen in my life.. IN LIFE, not just here.. Love that about you and really appreciate your ability to share the beauty in your spot on this ole rock.. Most people will never get " down Under " but you make me feel like you live just down the block.. Greenest of days to you girl... Wish I was there sometimes...
... Oh yeah nice girls too... eh hmmmmm ....

 

[Amy Gardner]

It's so tiny it made the lighter look like one of those giant novelty lighters!

Yah! That makes that hand look reaaally small!
I actually have quite a fetish for tiny, or smaller, things by our society’s standards. I like my coffee in a small cup (a piccolo), my guitar is smallish, I have a mini electric bass and a tiny amp (old Dean Marley Cube for anyone interested), my fireplace is miniature so I had a tiny fire poker made to go with it. Normal sized peopl in here ok like Gandalf at Bag End! And I feel like a larger sized person. (I’m not super small - 5’2”, I just like the feeling of size I get from small cups and other equipment.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Most people will never get " down Under " but you make me feel like you live just down the block.. Greenest of days to you girl... Wish I was there sometimes...

for saying so

 

[InTheShed]

Probably why you micro-dose...

 

[Heavenly Hybrid]

Lol, the opposite of Hagrid’s house!

 

[bobrown14]

Um... yes? Having the lux meter has helped me check the intensity so I feel much more comfortable now with making adjustments.

What's the sweet spot for LUX?

 

[Smokeyfromoz]

Amy, the plants are looking great and healthy lol, that's one small pipe. I have a very old pipe of dads somewhere, been vaping my first grow, Northern Lights Blueberry

 

[Amy Gardner]

What's the sweet spot for LUX?

Cool , I was actually just coming back here to ask you what heights you run the QBs in veg, and about your germination lighting.

Lux-wise, I’ve been using the RQS guide that I discovered via @farside05 in @InTheShed‘s journal (thanks both). It’s available here, and this is a screenshot of their relevant section:

Farside has experimented with much higher lux at germination and early veg, and used up to 20,000. I think he’s now wound it back a bit. I asked him recently about that, I’ll find it:

I start my seedlings around 20,000 lux. They'll get that for about the first 10-14 days from breaking ground. Early veg I'll up it to 30,000 (about week 3). Veg I keep it around 40,000, and Bloom I'll go 50,000. Was going up to 70,000 in later Bloom but I'm noticing light stress at that level. I think I'm gonna leave it at 50,000 this next grow. Really I don't think I'm moving my light too much until the stretch. The first couple increment (20k,30k,40k) the plants are just gaining height and increasing the level at the tops on their own. My node spacing is very tight, but I like it that way. I don't have that tall of a tent so the stockier the better.

Sometime recently (since then) he wound his lights backa bit, so maybe he can let us know if these a re still his ranges.

There are also Lux-to PPFD calcuators online but I can’t link ‘em becasue most are at non-sponsor lighting websites. Easy enough to find. Lux to ppfd varies with light temperature, so works well for white LEDs. ANd the results for 3500k and 3000k are very very close so I feel fine about still using lux as my guide once I have added the 3000k strips to this.

And back to the questions i had for you - how high are your lights from the canopy in veg, and how many wall wats per sq ft do you run? I realise every DIY setup is a it different so will vary quite a bit I’m just curious to know what kind of ballpark areas others are using, and succeeding with

 

[Amy Gardner]

Amy, the plants are looking great and healthy lol, that's one small pipe. I have a very old pipe of dads somewhere, been vaping my first grow, Northern Lights Blueberry

Thanks smokeyf’oz NL Blueberry sounds yummy for sure! Sounds sedating too. I need some of that in my life sometimes

 

[farside05]

Cool , I was actually just coming back here to ask you what heights you run the QBs in veg, and about your germination lighting.

Lux-wise, I’ve been using the RQS guide that I discovered via @farside05 in @InTheShed‘s journal (thanks both). It’s available here, and this is a screenshot of their relevant section:

Farside has experimented with much higher lux at germination and early veg, and used up to 20,000. I think he’s now wound it back a bit. I asked him recently about that, I’ll find it:

Sometime recently (since then) he wound his lights backa bit, so maybe he can let us know if these a re still his ranges.

There are also Lux-to PPFD calcuators online but I can’t link ‘em becasue most are at non-sponsor lighting websites. Easy enough to find. Lux to ppfd varies with light temperature, so works well for white LEDs. ANd the results for 3500k and 3000k are very very close so I feel fine about still using lux as my guide once I have added the 3000k strips to this.

And back to the questions i had for you - how high are your lights from the canopy in veg, and how many wall wats per sq ft do you run? I realise every DIY setup is a it different so will vary quite a bit I’m just curious to know what kind of ballpark areas others are using, and succeeding with

I'll run my seedlings around 15-20k, had the current grow at 30k for veg but they looked like they were shying away from the light so I dialed it back to 20k but the real problem wasn't so much the strength. Turns out my timer was broke and they were getting non stop light for 3 days until I noticed. Now that the timer is replaced I'm back to 30k and they don't look droopy. For Bloom in planning on 50k. I've ran 60-70 the last two grows but I've noticed some light stress and bleaching so I'm gonna back that down this time.

 

[Dutchman1990]

Hi Amy!

Garden is looking fantastic and nice forest fairy pipe haha!

Hope your doing well and enjoying the day!

 

[smokesbetter]

Damn girl that fairy pipe is the bomb , wee don't have any rees round here like that (that spit out pipes) Good to hear you have helpers that can come by and do just that ! I feel your pain in the legs some days all i can do to get around after as you say working them too hard day before . The upped higher garden look great keep it up

 

[Amy Gardner]

I'll run my seedlings around 15-20k, had the current grow at 30k for veg but they looked like they were shying away from the light so I dialed it back to 20k but the real problem wasn't so much the strength. Turns out my timer was broke and they were getting non stop light for 3 days until I noticed. Now that the timer is replaced I'm back to 30k and they don't look droopy. For Bloom in planning on 50k. I've ran 60-70 the last two grows but I've noticed some light stress and bleaching so I'm gonna back that down this time.

Oh oops! Glad they’re recovering from the roundtheclock lighting incident. Thanks for clarifying that. DO you try to maintain any particular distance?

I guess these questions are for everyone/anyone, not just farside.

Is there a difference, say, between 27000lux at 3’ and 27000lux at 1.5’? There would be a difference in light penetration into the canopy of course. I’m wondering if it makes any difference to the top of the canopy, apart from it being a little warmer...

Hi Amy!

Garden is looking fantastic and nice forest fairy pipe haha!

Hope your doing well and enjoying the day!

Thanks Dutch, I am! Thanks for stopping by with encouraging observations

fairy pipe is the bomb , wee don't have any rees round here like that (that spit out pipes)

The upped higher garden look great keep it up

and thanks smo’better!

 

[dynamo1]

Surfing by looking for some alpha and theta waves,where did that flow go? May I have some more negative ions please.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Update Week 6

Not many pics today as I’ve been too depleted to do much more than the bare necessity for the plants (and even then...). And first I wanted to revisit this, because Bubba could definitely use a little ‘something’ I think.

So nice stopping in here! To me, she looks (damn fine, no doubt!) like maybe she could use a good Brix/snake oil spray. Cheers Amy!

I’m curious to know what you are seeing that makes you think that? I’ve noticed that the leaf colour is a bit marbled, not consistent and even - but am not sure if that’s anything or if it’s even a trick of light. I’ll consider adding SO the next Brix, I have plenty. So I don’t question your diagnosis, just wondering what you see

so am I

So I’ve been thinking about this more, and also knowing that Stoney M maybe doesn’t get online so often atm and probably doesn’t have shed-loads of time when he does, and I’m going to take some slightly educated guesses of what might drive that thought.

The mottling/ slight marbling I’d been noticing at times is now a little more pronounced and maybe looks like a demand for Mg. That, combined with the purpling of the lower petioles is maybe enough to suggest a Snake Oil injection into things would be beneficial. Mg is one of the micronutrients the SO helps with, I’m pretty sure.

For the non-Brixers, Doc Bud’s Snake Oil is given as part of the Brix foliar, when used in a DBHBB kit grow. It can also be used by any gardner, using a different preparation method, and on pretty much any plant. It’s super strong and delivers micronutrients directly to the plant. It’s used for particularly demanding cultivars.

If I’m Brixing every 10 days that isn’t for a few days yet, as I’d only just given a Brix foliar when Smokey M dropped by. I think I can safely pull that forward a couple of days and do it at lights-on tonight, which will be 8 days since the last Brix foliar.

I’m definitley not keeping Bubba Hash happy consistently. It has times where it looks fully electric and perky and couldn’t be happier, and then it drops and curls down for no apparent (to me) reason while the pot is still half wet (or half dry, however you see a thing ). This is a little bit disconcerting and also makes catching the drench window a bit tricky. I missed it last night, I was kinda too knackered to do it and thought it was just it’s ‘usual’ drop/curl but it was fairly wilty when I woke up this morning so I clearly pushed it a little it too far. It was due for a Transplant drench and I made it a nice hearty one with the top-down-bottom-up technique (half in the saucer and half down the top) as I dont have the strength to do the full dunk right now.

Candida CD-1 was also ready to drink and got a 1/4Transwater the same way. It’s pot had about the same dryness as Bubba’s but it had only a slight hint of a wilt going on. In general the Candida is looking healthy and perky and happy the whole time. I’ve not seem it actually wilt or drop at all. It’s also much sturdier in the branches than the last one I grew. No bendy floppy plant this time!

All the autos are kicking along ok. The DBHBB DDAs are still not ready for their first drench. Twice I’ve given them 1/4 cup of water (TW w little tea). This is to encourage root growth towards the top of teh pot and the keep the pots kind of even as they dry out.

The coco Canna babies had a slight increase in nute strength last night. I thought Blueberry was starting to look a little faded, and then kind of accidentally (I’m tired, right!) gave a stronger dose to Amnesia as well. It’s so weak at this stage, I’m sure they’ll be fine.

These pics are last night, a good many hours before the DBHBB drenches. It’s easy to see that I really should have Drenched the Bubba right then, instead of 7.5hrs later. She’ll be alright It’s also easy to see the slight marbled effect on the leaves which could be a demand for Mg and could be part of why Stoney M suggested the Snake Oil. I’ll do that in the next 24 hrs.

Oh! And I’ve now trained the BH and Candida CD-1 main branches out a little, held by garden ties now. They got a DeStress foliar a day or so before that

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• Amy Gardner
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• Amy Gardner
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• Amy Gardner
• Jul 21, 2019

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• Amy Gardner
• Jul 21, 2019

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• Amy Gardner
• Jul 21, 2019

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• Amy Gardner
• Jul 21, 2019

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• Amy Gardner
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• Amy Gardner
• Jul 21, 2019

So that’s the state of the garden and my mind right now

May I have some more negative ions please.

I’ve been thinking about a negative ioniser! There is this device I’m looking at which is a circulating fan, a humidifier and a negative ioniser all in one... It’s very spendy, but if it works...


Hope that tired update made any sense at all! Exhaustion is discombobulating It’s either that or the after-effects of that feisty full moon eclipse we had recently.



I do hope that tired update made any sense at all! Exhaustion is discombobulating

 

[InTheShed]

7.5hrs later

Something about Brix sprays and drenches and purple petioles, but well done on getting seven and a half hours sleep!

 

[Amy Gardner]

I thought so too!

 

[farside05]

I guess these questions are for everyone/anyone, not just farside.

Is there a difference, say, between 27000lux at 3’ and 27000lux at 1.5’? There would be a difference in light penetration into the canopy of course. I’m wondering if it makes any difference to the top of the canopy, apart from it being a little warmer...

When I first got my meter I had the same thought and did a brief experiment. It was a pain in the ass so I didn't carry it out to the fullest extent,. Basically I didn't see much difference in penetration running it closer, about 75% power, and having 50k lux at the tops, than I did at 100% and further away. The drop-off wasn't really that different so I quit. That was with my light. I can't say all lights will be the same.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Thanks! I know Graytail has posted about the different penetration he gets from the lights at different heights. I think he said something along the lines of stronger/more lights further away gives better penetration than the same intensity at close range. But I could be getting that wrong. I’ll have to go back and see. ( i doe remember that 2’ was something of a sweet spot, so that’s what I’ve been aiming for)
I was more wondering whether the tops of the canopy respond any differently with the same intensity of light at different differences.

I’m really new to working with lights at all and have next to no experience using a purchased product to experiment with distance etc. I find it tricky as I don’t really have a point of reference for this light, at least that’s what it feels like. I suppose I’m developing one as I work with it... The lux meter has really been a godsend in that department.

 

[Amy Gardner]

It’s good when you’ve assimilated so much info to the point where it’s comfortably ‘in you’, so that you’re able to see where data is missing in your knowledge/experience. I find that my research goes in circles. Not that I’m going over the some things and getting nowhere, more that I often find myself traversing the same material and understanding it better each time, and over time I become able to put it to use.

I went back to some info, observations and communication I had with Gray last year. I’d remembered some of it, but not some finer points. Some of those will be useful to me going forward so I’ll drop in Gray’s posts here (the first one will likely be useful to many):

While we're on the subject of lighting, I can share some rules of thumb.

You want 1200 umols at the top of the canopy and 500 at the bottom - that's "perfect".

In a 4x4, with Samsung diodes, you need 120,000 lumens to get 1200 umols. That will provide a 2 foot effective canopy. Other light sources will require higher lumens because of the PAR differences.

A 1000DE hps delivers 140 lumens/watt. Single ended hps are 130 Lu/W. CMH has a great spectrum but it only gets 115 Lu/W. COBs and Samsungs run at 150-200 Lu/W depending on how hard you drive them. My setup is nominally over 190, and I lose 7-8% in drivers, etc, so I get 170+ at the wall.

Let's see if I can format this in a way we can read it ...

..................Lux/ppfd....Lu/W.....factor
Grolux floro .......34 .......30 .......0.87
sunlight ..............54
blurple ...............55 ......110 ......2.01
CMH Agro ..........59 ......100 ......1.70
CMH ...................65 ......115 ......1.77
LM561c ..............66 ......180 ......2.72
Cree3590 ...........66 ......170 ......2.55
MH .....................71 ......110 ......1.55
Fluoro(cool white) 74 ....65 ......0.88
1000DE .............77 .......140 ......1.82
600HPS .............82 .......130 ......1.59

How do you manage the upping of light intensity once into flower? Do you just crank it once you flip? Or ease it up slowly. And I know you run your boards about 20w each during veg... what to you give them max during flower?

Thanks Amy, good question.

I spent a LOT of time on lighting research, but without any measuring instruments of my own, and I'm finding some variances. I designed the bloom room for 1200 umols at 2 feet, giving me 500 umols at 4 feet, for a 2 foot canopy. But I'm getting leaf fatigue in the upper one foot of the canopy - they dry and fade and curl, even at 70% RH. I've seen data that says that 1200 umols is too much, that 1000 is better, so I'm pretty sure I'm at maximum at 2 feet, meaning I over-designed a bit. I'm at 670 watts in 16.5 sqft = 40 watts/sqft. 1000 umols would be 33 watts/sqft. But ... I'm also running these very soft, so I'm getting higher Lu/watt. At any rate, it looks like you don't need more than 35.

In veg I run longer hours, 20/4, so I need less light. In veg, I'm seeing no such fatigue. I'm running 27 watts/sqft and I haven't been careful about headroom. I can get them as close as 18 inches without any trouble. So that's a bit puzzling.

To answer the question, I don't turn power up and down. I have my panels mounted at the top of the space and I move the plants up and down on risers to get the headroom I want. And the flip goes from one room to another, so it's an instant thing. One day they're under 27 watts at 20/4 and the next day they're at 40 watts at 11/13.

I don't believe it's worth the time to ease them up gradually. If I was running batches, I might fool with weekly changes in light cycle, but I bet it wouldn't be distinctly better.

I think we can convert LED Lux to Umols. I also imagine that RQS used such a conversion when developing their guide so it’s likely a good guide. Wouldn’t hurt to try and work out where I am in terms of umols tho’, just out of interest. If it is indeed even possible.

Next I should work out what the DLI is i suppose