Horse's Coco Hempy 400w CMH Vertical Crawlspace Grow 2010

[Barry Manilow]

High PBRMJ, thanks for the kind words. No disease or pest I've gotten looks like anything textbook I have scoped these buggers, and they look more like gnats than aphids, but these have a longer, thinner tail than those book gnats.

It has to be BTi, from my understanding, but obviously my understanding is not getting rid of my gnats

I just ordered some Gnatrol... but I'll check out that ferti-lome. Thanks for the heads up!

I used ferti-lome triple action all last summer, it's neem-based and treats pretty much everything. Protected my plants from many bug assaults all grow.

I'm not suggesting that product for you, just a general endorsement of ferti-lome.

Quick photo update. The gallery's been switching the order of the pics around on upload, so bear with me.

Sunday's garden.

Jack III left 61 days. White Russian II 56 days. Both are showing some amber. 30% maybe. I think I should start flushing now... is that right? I'm using Sucanat instead of molasses. Do I keep that up during the flush?

Jack III

WR II

WR III 56 days also.

Horse with my vast knowledge and experience lol they look like they've still got some swelling to do. They also look incredible in general my friend you're going to be real happy soon

Hawaiian 22 days. This plant looks like a lot of indica's in her jeans I'm still not sure what she officially is.

Flo 23 days. Looks sativa dominant to me. The folks I got her from, may have monkied with her genetics. They said it used to be their favorite strain, but last grow was disappointing medicinal-wise. I'm hoping good parenting will bring out the best in her

Man we screwed this Flo up, what to do? Hey let's give it to Horse!

The JH kids in the pool 56 days. I stripped the fans soon after they went into 12/12 under the T5s. Pretty much stopped their stretching around 2'. The other JHs I've flowered have all gone over 3'. I think timely defoliation can keep them short (thanks 420fied)... now I've gotta work on short and bulky

They look so good bro! I'm convinced that stripping fans stops stretch, pretty much immediately. It's a good trick to have in the bag for sure.

Here's the Heartbreak Hotel. I couldn't have been more destructive if I'd used Agent Orange. This is a formerly flourishing AK48 clone I'd had for 24 hours before I melted most of her. It's still kinda sketchy if she'll make it or not.

I cut down an 8l rose pot to 4l, put in a lava rock res, and coco/dirt/lava rock medium. I fuckin forgot to put mosquito dunks in the res, dang.

I think the next pots will be 6l?

I lost all the Hawaiian clones, have one struggling White Russian, one Flo with an intact top, and 3 JHs that I hadn't had the heart to kill at the last changing of the guard from veg to flower. My little army of mutated rejects.

The bitch is that this time I actually had a plan for keeping the perpetual thing going with 5 strains...

And the ezcloner... no roots after 8 days. None. I'm thinking this ain't right. Any tips?

Thanks for looking.

Ouch! All that from the soil being too hot? I hope you can somehow salvage a few of them, feel bad for you my friend.

Do the clones still look good? Not drooping etc? I'm not familiar with that cloner but it often takes 8+ days for mine to show roots. As long as they still look good hang in there with them.

 

[PBRMJ]

High PBRMJ, thanks for the kind words. No disease or pest I've gotten looks like anything textbook I have scoped these buggers, and they look more like gnats than aphids, but these have a longer, thinner tail than those book gnats.

It has to be BTi, from my understanding, but obviously my understanding is not getting rid of my gnats

I just ordered some Gnatrol... but I'll check out that ferti-lome. Thanks for the heads up!

I used Gnatrol and I had no luck that's why I have a feeling it was of the aphid family. I saw some that looked like what you are talking about also. I'm sure you will get them buggers wiped out.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Hey Horse I first want to say I really like the crawl. I have a question on the gnats you are battling. Have you looked at them under a scope, they sound kinda like what got me on my first grow about mid flower. I think it was a aphid more then a gnat. I tried BT on them and a few other things that never worked.

I washed everything down and started a seed and sure enough them fuckers were back I hit it with a product called ferti-lome fruit tree spray.I have only seen one or two since in both my spaces.

I used ferti-lome triple action all last summer, it's neem-based and treats pretty much everything. Protected my plants from many bug assaults all grow.

I'm not suggesting that product for you, just a general endorsement of ferti-lome.



Horse with my vast knowledge and experience lol they look like they've still got some swelling to do. They also look incredible in general my friend you're going to be real happy soon



Man we screwed this Flo up, what to do? Hey let's give it to Horse!



They look so good bro! I'm convinced that stripping fans stops stretch, pretty much immediately. It's a good trick to have in the bag for sure.




Ouch! All that from the soil being too hot? I hope you can somehow salvage a few of them, feel bad for you my friend.

Do the clones still look good? Not drooping etc? I'm not familiar with that cloner but it often takes 8+ days for mine to show roots. As long as they still look good hang in there with them.

I used Gnatrol and I had no luck that's why I have a feeling it was of the aphid family. I saw some that looked like what you are talking about also. I'm sure you will get them buggers wiped out.

Hay PBRMJ & BlueDog,

Thanks for the info, it looks like the fertilome triple action plus II and the fruit and vegetable spray are exactly the same? Did you get them at a big box store or order online?

It is hard for me to tell the difference between the aphid and gnat adults. Like I said what I have doesn't look exactly like the pictures I've seen of either. I'll pick up some Fertilome in case the BTi doesn't do it. Maybe I do have both, and they've cross mogrified?

Blue, the tent disaster was from spraying the wrong EcoSmart House Pest stuff directly on the plants, heavily. It doesn't seem to bother things if I just spray the pots?

The big Jack is nearly ready, probably 2 weeks. The White Russian is a little behind that. The last WR never did fatten up, and the trichs were about 60% amber. I figure these have about 3 weeks from the way they look.

I guess I'll start flushing the Jack now, since I've been using the GH MaxiBloom and KoolBloom, unless I hear something to the contrary. I've never flushed at the end of the cycle.

I'm going to keep the clones in the machine until I kill them all. About 1/2 have gone south already, but they were sketchy to begin with. I have some I took off of seriously flowering plants while cleaning out. Science experiments everywhere

Thanks PBRMJ and BD for the encouragement and help.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Alright! a couple of the Jack clones are showing roots at nine days.

I think I should have checked the spray nozzles for crud. Is there a best practice for aiming them?

 

[Barry Manilow]

Alright! a couple of the Jack clones are showing roots at nine days.

I think I should have checked the spray nozzles for crud. Is there a best practice for aiming them?

Great news on the roots Horse

Are the roots sprayed in that thing? I figured they were totally immersed. Take care my friend!

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Great news on the roots Horse

Are the roots sprayed in that thing? I figured they were totally immersed. Take care my friend!

Yup, sprayed by a very noisy pump

 

[Xlr8]

Hey Horse - first of all, you have some lovely ladies in there as always. I love poppin' in to check out the crawl space. Sorry to hear about the few problems that came up, but glad you're getting some rooting in the cloner. Wish I could help you out about the best practices with the sprayers, but I'm a seed grower (at least as of now!)

Anyway - happy growing my friend, and with the clones!

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Thanks Xlr8r, I just picked up 4 more Jacks that had been pretty much lollipopped for clones. Looks like the garden is filling back up

Yeah, I don't know if there is any adjustment on the sprayers, they screw in and probably need to be firmly seated, so I guess they just go where they will?

I loved growing in dirt, but the pests, ticks, droughts, rippers, and cops got to be a little much... now all I've got to deal with is fungus gnats! At least they don't bite

 

[farnorth]

Alright! a couple of the Jack clones are showing roots at nine days.

I think I should have checked the spray nozzles for crud. Is there a best practice for aiming them?

Horse keep practicing with the cloner. After 4 rounds in my diy im finally seing roots in about 4 days without any wilting or yellowing to the leaves.
Cleaning is definitely essential, and have noticed a huge increase in health since cleaning once a week.
When cleaning, I empty the resi. take all of the collars out and the misters off. Fill the resi with hot water and run the pump for about 5 minutes, while scrubbing the collars with little clorox wipes. Then empty the water and refill, adding 1 cup of bleach. Then run the pump for another 2 minutes or so. After emptying again, i wipe the inside, under the lid and all the tubing with clorox wipes, and reinstall the misters. Refill with hot water once more and run for about 5 minutes. Then good to go.

Are you using any rooting hormone? Any type of additive to the water?
My first round, I only used rooting gel and noticed roots after maybe 7 or 8 days, and roots at 10 with out any gel. With the next batch i added some thrive alive (organic superthrive), only about 5ml or so to a 7.5 gal res. Saw a faster root time, but the leaves were still wilting and yellowing badly.
PH for the first two were high at 6.2
After cleaning the resi. Adding 30ml of thrive alive, dropping the ph to 5.5, foliar spraying with a thrive alive mix, and a more thorough scarification, I am now seeing roots within 5 days on 100%, and within 3 days on the fastest. Keep trying to clone man! These cloners really are fun once you get them down.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Horse keep practicing with the cloner. After 4 rounds in my diy im finally seing roots in about 4 days without any wilting or yellowing to the leaves.
Cleaning is definitely essential, and have noticed a huge increase in health since cleaning once a week.
When cleaning, I empty the resi. take all of the collars out and the misters off. Fill the resi with hot water and run the pump for about 5 minutes, while scrubbing the collars with little clorox wipes. Then empty the water and refill, adding 1 cup of bleach. Then run the pump for another 2 minutes or so. After emptying again, i wipe the inside, under the lid and all the tubing with clorox wipes, and reinstall the misters. Refill with hot water once more and run for about 5 minutes. Then good to go.

Are you using any rooting hormone? Any type of additive to the water?
My first round, I only used rooting gel and noticed roots after maybe 7 or 8 days, and roots at 10 with out any gel. With the next batch i added some thrive alive (organic superthrive), only about 5ml or so to a 7.5 gal res. Saw a faster root time, but the leaves were still wilting and yellowing badly.
PH for the first two were high at 6.2
After cleaning the resi. Adding 30ml of thrive alive, dropping the ph to 5.5, foliar spraying with a thrive alive mix, and a more thorough scarification, I am now seeing roots within 5 days on 100%, and within 3 days on the fastest. Keep trying to clone man! These cloners really are fun once you get them down.

Thanks for all that farnorth What do you do with the clones while your cleaning?

I've been using rainwater with just a little SuperThrive. Sounds like I need to use more and adjust the pH.

The first clones, which are rooting now, are Jacks. They usually take if I just walk by them with a mini-hempy I didn't use anything on them, other than the super thrive.

The later clones, which I had to pull off of heavily flowering plants after the EcoSmart melting, were dipped in Olivia's. If any of them take, it will be a bonus, because I'm not expecting much.

I love the idea of this ezcloner. It takes up way less space than the hempy cups, and I think I can learn to control things a whole lot more evenly

My collars are pretty scaly from well water, actually the cloner is pretty scaly where ever my son had water leaks. No green stuff, though.

I ran a bunch of H2O2 through it to start out.

I ended up putting closed cell backer rod in all those notches in the lid to keep the water from spraying out. If they were breather paths, the lid doesn't fit to tightly anyway, and water doesn't leak out of the tank anymore

I've been spraying 2x a day with a zinc/iron/manganese concoction. I may add a little superthrive.

It's probably a stupid question, but what is the scarification you're doing. Are you talking about scraping the nodes and stems?

Thanks helping out!

 

[farnorth]

Thanks for all that farnorth What do you do with the clones while your cleaning?

I've been using rainwater with just a little SuperThrive. Sounds like I need to use more and adjust the pH.

The first clones, which are rooting now, are Jacks. They usually take if I just walk by them with a mini-hempy I didn't use anything on them, other than the super thrive.

The later clones, which I had to pull off of heavily flowering plants after the EcoSmart melting, were dipped in Olivia's. If any of them take, it will be a bonus, because I'm not expecting much.

I love the idea of this ezcloner. It takes up way less space than the hempy cups, and I think I can learn to control things a whole lot more evenly

My collars are pretty scaly from well water, actually the cloner is pretty scaly where ever my son had water leaks. No green stuff, though.

I ran a bunch of H2O2 through it to start out.

I ended up putting closed cell backer rod in all those notches in the lid to keep the water from spraying out. If they were breather paths, the lid doesn't fit to tightly anyway, and water doesn't leak out of the tank anymore

I've been spraying 2x a day with a zinc/iron/manganese concoction. I may add a little superthrive.

It's probably a stupid question, but what is the scarification you're doing. Are you talking about scraping the nodes and stems?

Thanks helping out!

The rain water definitely sounds like a better plan than just regular tap water! i wish i had a Ro system myself, i imagine that RO water on clones would do wonders. However, maybe the need the other little bit of iron and calcium and such that is in tawater because there is no root system or maybe im just an idiot?

As for just using suerthrive. I have personally noticed a huge increase with the added thrive alive, up to 30ml, around 5ml a gallon. As well as using cloning gel and not being shy about the amount i put on there.

From what I have heard about cloning flowering plants, is simply that its hard, and rather stressful on the plants. Its not impossible, but just not optimal from what i have heard. Do you have any mothers than you can cut from n a regular basis?

For the cleanliness of your cloner. Try to clean it up with some bleach and a brand new rough surface sponge or clorox wipes, even if there is no green stuff or visible slime or anything. Cant be to careful, and after cleaning mine myself and seeing the improvement directly from one round of clones to the next, i was sold on the importance. When im cleaning, because i take a new round of clones ever week, and put one round into dirt ever week, once i transplant one batch, is when i clean because thats when the fewest number of clones are in the cloner.
I remove the clones from the lid, still in neoprene sleves, as they float. and i just fill up some dark bows of water, label the bowls and drop the clones in there, with roots or not. I use the water from the resi or this as to not change them back and forth form different water 3 different consecutive times. Prolly overkill on thought on my part, but eh, its working. Cleaning only takes a about 30 minutes or so, and once refilled, i put the clones back into the lid. Because i only have 10 clones still in the cloner at a time when i clean, and its a 30 site, the 10 sleves being used are cleaned every other week. But the sleeves without clones, are being cleaned every week.

the scarification that im doing, well i guess what im doing you could more call it the FIM technique, clone style. Or a stab/butcher attempt. But it really does produce an awesome root set, and roots out of the entire stem opposed to just the bottom of the stem.
I cut at my 45 degree angle. But that i also put a series of vertical cuts going down the stem about 1/4 inch in length. Maybe 4 or 5 a stem? Not so much the scratching, but just a full on cut. Including 2 at the bottom that splits the very bottom of the stem, with the 45 degree angle, into 4 tiny little pieces if that makes sense? It sounds brutal, but it really truly does work. If you look at my journal, I have some pictures of my roots from 3 consecutive days and you can see what im talking about with roots coming from the entire stem.

 

[Two Tokes]

The sparkling buds in the crawl is the important thing. Little insects pale in comparison.

I take the sugar out of the water when I think it is the last week. I don't think it would hurt anything to include it, then I don't know if it adds anything in the last few days either. Some people say it adds to taste and some people say it only feeds soil. Some century I might do a comparison test.

I don't think dunks in the res would do much for gnats. They primarily lay eggs and the larva live in the top of the soil. You would want to pour some dunk charged water or Gnatrol water into the pot as a drench.

Some times gnats can sneak in through the hempy hole but pluging the hole for a minute before allowing drainage will let the gnat killer spread around.

I don't spray leaves for gnats. Just the top of the soil. That is were the flying buggers emerge from are trying to lay eggs. If the gnats are hanging out on leaves, they might not be gnats.

Meanwhile, back at the Wonder Woman bud I accidentally clipped of...

 

[HorseBadoritz]

The rain water definitely sounds like a better plan than just regular tap water! i wish i had a Ro system myself, i imagine that RO water on clones would do wonders. However, maybe the need the other little bit of iron and calcium and such that is in tawater because there is no root system or maybe im just an idiot?

I'd think that tap water would work well if the TA was good. I just happen to have rain water now. Later, during the summer drought, I have to run a dehumidifier, so I'll probably mix that run off with water I haul from the city system.

I've run a HVAC duct into the crawl, so I'm hoping I can keep it cool enough to run the cloner this summer.

As for just using suerthrive. I have personally noticed a huge increase with the added thrive alive, up to 30ml, around 5ml a gallon. As well as using cloning gel and not being shy about the amount i put on there.

I read on here somewhere, maybe McCrakin's thread, that he let's his cuttings sit in cloning gel for maybe an hour, and has good results. I think with your scarifying method more gel would get absorbed. Thanks for that I'll check out the Thrive Alive, they have it at the hydro store... one more danged thing to buy

From what I have heard about cloning flowering plants, is simply that its hard, and rather stressful on the plants. Its not impossible, but just not optimal from what i have heard. Do you have any mothers than you can cut from n a regular basis?

Unfortunately, I don't have room for mother's, so I'd been taking clones of clones. Worked great until I whacked the clones I've gotten clones from flowering plants before, just never when they were into it so far. I want to keep these strains, but their parents are 3 hours away!

For the cleanliness of your cloner. Try to clean it up with some bleach and a brand new rough surface sponge or clorox wipes, even if there is no green stuff or visible slime or anything. Cant be to careful, and after cleaning mine myself and seeing the improvement directly from one round of clones to the next, i was sold on the importance. When im cleaning, because i take a new round of clones ever week, and put one round into dirt ever week, once i transplant one batch, is when i clean because thats when the fewest number of clones are in the cloner.
I remove the clones from the lid, still in neoprene sleves, as they float. and i just fill up some dark bows of water, label the bowls and drop the clones in there, with roots or not. I use the water from the resi or this as to not change them back and forth form different water 3 different consecutive times. Prolly overkill on thought on my part, but eh, its working. Cleaning only takes a about 30 minutes or so, and once refilled, i put the clones back into the lid. Because i only have 10 clones still in the cloner at a time when i clean, and its a 30 site, the 10 sleves being used are cleaned every other week. But the sleeves without clones, are being cleaned every week.

That sounds like a plan. Stevehman hipped me to colored neoprene collars. Different color for each strain would help me, I'm very easily cornfused

the scarification that im doing, well i guess what im doing you could more call it the FIM technique, clone style. Or a stab/butcher attempt. But it really does produce an awesome root set, and roots out of the entire stem opposed to just the bottom of the stem.
I cut at my 45 degree angle. But that i also put a series of vertical cuts going down the stem about 1/4 inch in length. Maybe 4 or 5 a stem? Not so much the scratching, but just a full on cut. Including 2 at the bottom that splits the very bottom of the stem, with the 45 degree angle, into 4 tiny little pieces if that makes sense? It sounds brutal, but it really truly does work. If you look at my journal, I have some pictures of my roots from 3 consecutive days and you can see what im talking about with roots coming from the entire stem.

You reminded me that I usually split the stem tips... but I seem to have spaced it out on all the ones I just did. I scrape, especially at the nodes, but I like the cutting tip

Thanks for taking the time write all that out... I knew this cloning thing could be easier

 

[HorseBadoritz]

The sparkling buds in the crawl is the important thing. Little insects pale in comparison.

I take the sugar out of the water when I think it is the last week. I don't think it would hurt anything to include it, then I don't know if it adds anything in the last few days either. Some people say it adds to taste and some people say it only feeds soil. Some century I might do a comparison test.

I don't think dunks in the res would do much for gnats. They primarily lay eggs and the larva live in the top of the soil. You would want to pour some dunk charged water or Gnatrol water into the pot as a drench.

Some times gnats can sneak in through the hempy hole but pluging the hole for a minute before allowing drainage will let the gnat killer spread around.

I don't spray leaves for gnats. Just the top of the soil. That is were the flying buggers emerge from are trying to lay eggs. If the gnats are hanging out on leaves, they might not be gnats.

Meanwhile, back at the Wonder Woman bud I accidentally clipped of...

Hay TT, Have you noticed any deleterious effects from your gnats? I'm wondering if I should just skip the Snowstorm and keep the gnats

I'm using dunked water for everything, arrrrgh.

Funny thing is the gnats first showed up when I put molasses in straight perlite hempies. Azamax made them disappear, to me, but maybe not. They could be hanging out in the soil I use... jeeze. I'm waiting for the Gnatrol to make them little tiny cocktails

These bugs do crawl out of the pots and run up the stems for what looks like easier take offs... aphid control will be the next tack.

And yeah, I don't spray the leaves for gnats... anymore

 

[Two Tokes]

No real deleterious gnat effect. However, I haven't let them get out of hand. They can munch roots and the inside of stems. had a few larva show up in a clone that had been healthy and they killed it by snacking on roots.

If they showed up with molasses could they be fruit flies? or maybe just a new undiscovered breed of miniature Horse Flies?

The flying gnats have been known to get stuck in bud resin. No damage to buds just hurts bag appeal but gives a protein kick to the smoke.

 

[HorseBadoritz]

No real deleterious gnat effect. However, I haven't let them get out of hand. They can munch roots and the inside of stems. had a few larva show up in a clone that had been healthy and they killed it by snacking on roots.

If they showed up with molasses could they be fruit flies? or maybe just a new undiscovered breed of miniature Horse Flies?

The flying gnats have been known to get stuck in bud resin. No damage to buds just hurts bag appeal but gives a protein kick to the smoke.

Ha, I might have to go with the miniature horse flies

Fruit flies appear to have colored bodies. They also have heads and red eyes. These are black, and look headless.

They run, which I've read gnats don't do. But they don't look like root aphids to me...

I'm a bit reluctant to put my scope on a sticky yellow card trap

 

[HorseBadoritz]

Check this out...

A couple of days ago White Russian 2 & 3 started showing some purple on the top fans. The only WR I've finished was so weird that nothing about it would have surprised me, but I don't remember any purpling.

Today, the purple seems to be spreading to the bud leaves. I'm hoping that this is something cool. Since these two have been raised on maxi stuff, and have a coco/dirt medium, nothing is the same as the last girl.

I have been foliar feeding Snowstorm once a week for 4 weeks. Think I got a mis-labled bottle of Purple Snowstorm? I think I like it

Anybody else foliar feeding with Snowstorm? From the first spray, stamens started browning, and after each spray, got browner. The WR stamens have almost all disappeared. I know the calyxes swallow them, but I don't remember it being so extreme before?

My son told me the university surplus store had a bunch of medical glassware on the tables. When I got there, I saw this:

I had always admired that big dessicator that Bel used to show off. This one's a mini compared to his, but it'll be perfect for little bud batches

It was only 3 bucks, and complete, so for a total of $5.50, I picked up some more breakables.

They had another dessicator that was twice as large, but no lid. I turned around, and when I turned back, some one had picked it up. They were going to use it for a planter... 5 beans, dang.

Edit:

Okay I went into my archives, and it does seem like the original WR did have a tinge of purple

but she sure was of a lot shorter stature

 

[Barry Manilow]

Wow Horse

Nice score on the desiccator and beakers! Not quite dumpster diving but close enough

SSU's companion product Purple Maxx is supposed to really bring out the purple so unless you got that by mistake it's gotta be the strain. What are your night temps these days I've heard real cool temps can bring it on too. Take care my friend!

 

[Barry Manilow]

Hay Horse & TT! Just the guys I'm looking for. I picked up a bag of Botanicare CocoGro today, should I do anything to pre-charge it? Here's the write-up:

Cocogro has a very low salt content that is available in double-sieved long fibers to reduce dust and give ample space within the mix.

Cocogro has excellent drainage properties and can be used over a longer period of time than coir fiber with shorter fibers. With longer fibers and reduced dust, growers will experience an optimal air to water ratio, which is vital for strong root development.

Cocogro is unique because it is not chemically treated like other coir fibers on the market. Cocogro is a superior coir fiber because it is aged a minimum of 18 months and has finished its decomposition stage. In addition, Cocogro passes through at least three monsoon seasons, which naturally washes away harmful salts out of the final product. Most other coir fibers are only 4 to 5 months old and have excessive potassium and salts and thus have to be chemically treated.

* 100% organic coir fiber
* Optimum air to water ratio
* Superior plant yields versus conventional potting soil
* Flushed of excess sodium

I also picked up something called Aquashield by Botonicare and Clonex Clone Solution, he recommends them to help speed things along. I can't possibly do any worse. I'm going to use the advice of farnorth here and Mr. Smith in 420fieds grow and try to pick up the pace with the next clones. How big are your cuttings usually?

Thanks guys!

 

[Marley15]

Hay Horse!

I could have sworn I was subbed to this journal, idk wtf happened. Either way, back on board now. Those buds are gorgeous man! Also great score on the dessicator. I use SS Ultra but not foliar, I heard foliar works great though (better than feeding in water). I also know it can run hot, maybe it's burning those pistils? By the looks of the pics though I see nothing wrong with them at all! Just danky goodness.

@ BD I would definitely flush that coco with water before you use it. Can also pre-charge with some calmag. I use aquashield as well, its basically just some bene's. Good stuff!