HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese - Herijuana Jack 33

Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Blue Planet Nutrients said:
That looks like textbook phosphorus deficiency to me. I am hesitant to tell you to add more fertilizer because that could potentially exacerbate the problem. One problem might be that there are too many salts in your soil and could be causing the phosphate to become chemically bound and unavailable to the plants. If that is the case, then adding more fertilizer whether it be BPN bloom or a chemical fertilizer that is high in P will add more salts to the soil and potentially burn your leaves. Is that plant grown using only organics or did it have chemical fert at all? A chemical fert that is high in Phosphorus might be good for your plants if there is not much salt build up or high levels of calcium in your soil. High levels of calcium can be causing the available phosphate to precipate out as calcium phosphate in your soil. The FP bloom supplies the bulk of the phosphorus through High P bat guano, steamed bone meal, and soft rock phosphate. It is composted so the bat guano will be immediately available but the P from the bone meal and rock phosphate is a slow release source of P. Keeping your nutrients mixed and aerated with a little sugar to feed the microbes will help more of the phosphate to become available because the microbes are decomposing the organic matter. I hope that we can solve this problem quickly! Let me know what other products you have used on this plant and maybe I can offer a solution.
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Blue Planet Nutrients said:
HMG. Try this: add about 2 ounces of bloom directly to your soil and nothing else. Water in. Do this to both plants. Don't add any more k bud. If the bloom starts to clear this up, you can add more with next feed. I slept on this and I think it will work. Those plants need phosphate. Be sure to shake the bloom well.
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Here is a run down of things I have used on this grow Fox Farms Grow Big, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, Azomite, Dolomite Lime, Dyna Grow Pro-tekt, Botanicare Cal/Mag, Molasses. When the lights come on I will post some pics of the Blue Cheese it is not as bad but I think it has an P deficiency as well.

When I talked to you about switching over to BPN I think I recall you telling me I might need to up the bloom.



Goldengoose7 said:
Forgive me if you already mentioned this somewhere, but when you were flushing these previously, were you using Clearex or the home made version of the same that I posted the recipe for a while back in my journal?

BPN's suggestion about some form of nute lockout occurring is very likely what is going on. A transplant would go along way to resolving this problem since the new soil would help dilute the built up salts, but if you can't do that, then a Clearex flush would help to free at least some of those salts from the soil and perhaps flush a lot of it away and return the soil to a more nuetral state where the plant can once again absorb what you are trying to feed it.

You could even go as far as flushing with Clearex twice within a 2-3 hour period. Can you take the plant outside or put it in a sink where you can then do an extended DRIP FLUSH with plain water for a few hours? You would want to adjust the tap to deliver just enough water that the pot remains full to the brim but not overflowing and let that go for several hours non-stop. This is why you would need to do this outside or in a sink with a drain cause we are talking about A LOT of water!

You could never flush this thoroughly just using a watering can. It would take you forver to push 30-50 gallons of water through the soil that way, and you couldn't maintain the downward pressure that the drip technique can generate.

I recently installed a garden hose fitting on the bathroom sink in my Bloom Room turned veg room so I have this option myself should the need arise at some point in the future.
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I did not use clearex. No way to go outside. 30 to 50 gallons seems like a lot of over kill for a three gallon smartpot to me.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

HomeMedGrower said:
I did not use clearex. No way to go outside. 30 to 50 gallons seems like a lot of over kill for a three gallon smartpot to me.
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Hmmmm... Well... Do you want to solve your problem?

Since you can't transplant the plant into a larger pot, I would strongly suggest that you either buy some Clearex, or make your own using my recipe. If this issue is caused by some form of nute lockout, then flushing with water alone won't be able to get the salts out efficiently.

As far as the volume of water to put through sour soil...

The best way to assure that you have flushed out ALL released salts that the Clearex was able to dislodge from the soil is to use a large volume of water delivered in a constant stream through the medium. The more water you can push through, the more salts you will get rid of. If you are not going to use Clearex, then that volume I suggested should be doubled, not reduced. There is no such thing as overkill when you are flushing a plant with plain water. A saturated pot is a saturated pot as far as the roots are concerned. The plant can't tell the difference between a pot that is soaked with a single watering, or a constant stream over several hours. ;)

Lastly... A 3 gallon pot is a bit on the small side for a permanent pot size. Unless you are using an Air Pot, I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 5 gallon pot as your final size before putting an average size plant in flower. The more soil volume you have, the longer it takes for salts to build up in the soil. Since we are talking about a finite amount of time a plant is growing in this soil, if you can extend the build up time beyond your harvest window, you will never have to deal with it.

What you have been doing up till now doesn't appear to be working, so you're going to need to change your game plan using some techniques that you haven't tried yet. Or...You can just keep doing what you're doing and hope for the best. ;)

Good luck.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Goldengoose7 said:
Do you want to solve your problem, or not?

I would strongly suggest that you either buy some Clearex, or make your own using my recipe. Water alone won't be able to get the salts out efficiently.

As far as the volume of water to put through sour soil...

The best way to assure that you have flushed out ALL released salts that the Clearex was able to dislodge from the soil is to use a large volume of water delivered in a constant stream through the medium. The more water you can push through, the more salts you will get rid of. If you are not going to use Clearex, then that volume I suggested should be doubled, not reduced. There is no such thing as overkill when you are flushing a plant with plain water. A saturated pot is a saturated pot as far as the roots are concerned. The plant can't tell the difference between a pot that is soaked with a single watering, or a constant stream over several hours. ;)

Lastly... A 3 gallon pot is a bit on the small side for a permanent pot size. Unless you are using an Air Pot, I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than a 5 gallon pot as your final size before putting a plant in flower. The more soil volume you have, the longer it takes for salts to build up in the soil. Since we are talking about a finite amount of time a plant is growing in this soil, if you can extend the build up time beyond your harvest window, you will never have to deal with it.

What you have been doing up till now doesn't appear to be working, so you're going to need to change your game plan using some techniques that you haven't tried yet, or not.

Good luck.
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From my understanding a smartpot has the same concept of air pruning the roots as in an Air-pot. So I don't think that is the problem.

I'm just curious why you so strongly think that it is a salt build-up all of the sudden. I'm not saying your wrong you could be right.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Blue Chesse as of today

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Here is the BC clone at day 23 of 12/12. You can see the issues here as well this clone has only been fed 2 times, this is why I don't believe it is a salt build up. Unless I have really salty water. I do not think that is the case either, I need to get a meter to check TDS.

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Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

HomeMedGrower said:
From my understanding a smartpot has the same concept of air pruning the roots as in an Air-pot. So I don't think that is the problem.

I'm just curious why you so strongly think that it is a salt build-up all of the sudden. I'm not saying your wrong you could be right.
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Because the yellowing is happening on the actual BUD leaves and not just the fan leaves. Fan leaf yellowing is what I was saying was NORMAL and it is for the most part, but the yellowing of the bud leaves is not. Usually, you should see a significant "darkening" of the green hue to these leaves and not a light pale green or greenish yellow.

Once again, if you were to refer back to my BBK or GDP plants at this stage, you will see the difference I am referring to.

If the colors in your photos are true, that is why I think it is some kind of nute lockout like BPN also believes.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

I agree with GG7. A good way to flush is just put them in the bath tub and flush, letting the water run down the drain.

@GG7 I have never used clearex, how much would you suggest he use?

@HMG, I would definitely have a 5 gallon bucket of nutrients bubbling. I would suggest adding just Grow, Micro, and Bloom to your bucket after your flush. Keep it simple for now. You can also add higher amounts than what the feed schedule says. just give what the plant seems to be wanting and water it in. Definitely add a lot more bloom. Get the ppms up to between 800 to 1000 in your nute mix. This should provide everything your plant needs after you flush. Also, monitor the pH of your nutrient mix and add lemon juice if it starts to rise.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

So I get this right. I should flush then feed half strength micro and grow and full strength bloom. Or should I skip the flush since I just flushed like 6 days ago.

Or should I go the route you suggested earlier with just putting 2oz of bloom in each plant and water it in.


Thank you bolth for taking the time to help me out. Even if I may be acting a little stubborn.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

I would feed full strength micro. The micros are amino chelated and are easier on the plant.
Feed full strength grow and double strength bloom. I would use the nutes in those ratios and use enough of them to get the ppms in your nute solution up to about 1000. You have big plants and they need a lot of food. If your soil is clean, don't worry about nute burn at 1000 ppm with my organics. Add mostly the bloom to get it up that high and aerate. Also be sure to agitate the mixture in case anything settles out. I have literally added both the Grow and the Bloom directly to my soil and it worked out great so I know that they don't burn plants easily. Of course, I only had to add it once every 2 weeks or so.

And its all good bro.... :)
 
Blue Planet Nutrients said:
I agree with GG7. A good way to flush is just put them in the bath tub and flush, letting the water run down the drain.

@GG7 I have never used clearex, how much would you suggest he use?
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For flushing with Clearex you use 15ml (1 TBSP) per gallon of water. The same applies to my home made version.

I would water the plants with the Clearex solution until the pot is thoroughly saturated and a good amount of runoff is acheived. At least a gallon per plant, but two per plant couldn't hurt! Let that soak in and do its thing for 6-8 hours. Then follow this up with the DRIP FLUSH I suggested using a steady stream of water from a sink, bathtub or garden hose and let the water run on low to keep the pot filled to the brim without overflowing it. Let the water run for 5-8 hours. Depending on the flow, that will put between 30 and 50 gallons through the pot and wash out a good portion of any built up salts the Clearex was able to unbind from the soil.

Shy of a full transplant into a larger pot, this is by far the best method for getting your soil back to a BASE level and virtually nute and salts free.

THEN... You can start feeding it all the stuff you are currently "wasting" on soil that is "preventing" your plant from getting any of these nutrients you keep putting in the pot! ;)
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Blue Planet Nutrients said:
I would feed full strength micro. The micros are amino chelated and are easier on the plant.
Feed full strength grow and double strength bloom. I would use the nutes in those ratios and use enough of them to get the ppms in your nute solution up to about 1000. You have big plants and they need a lot of food. If your soil is clean, don't worry about nute burn at 1000 ppm with my organics. Add mostly the bloom to get it up that high and aerate. Also be sure to agitate the mixture in case anything settles out. I have literally added both the Grow and the Bloom directly to my soil and it worked out great so I know that they don't burn plants easily. Of course, I only had to add it once every 2 weeks or so.

And its all good bro.... :)
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I'm need to feed tomorrow, I have a air pump and stone to let the nutrients bubble. So I will add the nutes now, can I feed after 14 hours of the nutes mixing or would it be better to wait 24.

Do you add molasses at 1 teaspoon per gallon?
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

You don't need that much molasses. a quarter or half a teaspoon per gallon will work. It will start to foam up a little after a while. 16 hours is fine. It would be a good idea to use a 5 gallon bucket and always keep full of nutes, just top off every time you feed. that way it is always aerated, you always have a vigorous microherd, and the nutrients are more plant available. did you use the mycorrhizae? mycorrhizae greatly increases phosphorus absorption into the roots just so you know
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Blue Planet Nutrients said:
You don't need that much molasses. a quarter or half a teaspoon per gallon will work. It will start to foam up a little after a while. 16 hours is fine. It would be a good idea to use a 5 gallon bucket and always keep full of nutes, just top off every time you feed. that way it is always aerated, you always have a vigorous microherd, and the nutrients are more plant available. did you use the mycorrhizae? mycorrhizae greatly increases phosphorus absorption into the roots just so you know
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No you had mentioned not to use the mycorrhixe with these because they were so close to finishing.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

Blue Planet Nutrients said:
I would feed full strength micro. The micros are amino chelated and are easier on the plant.
Feed full strength grow and double strength bloom. I would use the nutes in those ratios and use enough of them to get the ppms in your nute solution up to about 1000. You have big plants and they need a lot of food. If your soil is clean, don't worry about nute burn at 1000 ppm with my organics. Add mostly the bloom to get it up that high and aerate. Also be sure to agitate the mixture in case anything settles out. I have literally added both the Grow and the Bloom directly to my soil and it worked out great so I know that they don't burn plants easily. Of course, I only had to add it once every 2 weeks or so.

And its all good bro.... :)
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In my humble opinion, I totally agree with that statement. That looks like a hungry plant to me.
 
Re: HMG's Hempy Grow 2011 Blue Cheese, Herijuana Jack 33

yarddog35 said:
In my humble opinion, I totally agree with that statement. That looks like a hungry plant to me.
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:welcome: Thanks for stopping in. Your opinion is welcome here any time. :passitleft: Question for you which plant are you referring to?
 
Have the plants made any improvement? That side by side photo above looks really good overall, but it was hard to make out the bud leaf color.

You've got a lot more fan leaves on yours than I usually end up with by this time. I always trim off all my yellowing leaves when they get about 60% yellow, so by the time I chop, there isn't much left on the plant but the buds.
 
Goldengoose7 said:
Have the plants made any improvement? That side by side photo above looks really good overall, but it was hard to make out the bud leaf color.

You've got a lot more fan leaves on yours than I usually end up with by this time. I always trim off all my yellowing leaves when they get about 60% yellow, so by the time I chop, there isn't much left on the plant but the buds.
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There has been some improvement. The buds are starting to look more swollen then they were a week ago.

I think the problem is lack of P because when I switched nutes half way through the grow, the nutes from the organics were not as readily available as chemical nutes and it put them in a major deficiency of P, versus a salt buildup.

It could be to much calcium making the P not available also. If this is the case it would be due to my water and the dolimite lime I used. I know it has a guaranteed analysis of 102% CCE.

Any thoughts?
 
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