High Pressure Aeroponics

well the night you responded i measured the large one at 11" and 46" roots. So you were probably close to right on guessing 44". I read if I cut the tap root that i'm pretty much giving her a sex change. Is there any other way to avoid that from happening because i think i see exactly what you mean about lateral roots. the one that kept the tap root out of the water got really bushy roots much higher up and the other just continued to grow roots in water at bottom.

The bottom feeder is the healthier and taller looking one up top though. It grew another inch since yesterday and is just over 13" now but the other one is just hanging out between 8-9" for the last few days. I'll attach some pics of them. I started with 3 clones and then this seed from a bag of some good purp. The one clone really suffered from the heat that morning and is looking much perkier but roots still looking shitty and not growing anymore. Its just hanging out basically.

I'm still going 2 to 1 bloom and micro with GH. and right now I raised my ppm to almost 400 and don't see any neg changes. I just still have the same problems on certains leaves here and there with black spots and tips. You can see in the pics. Should I be trimming off some of the lower growth on the all one or is it ready soon to try and make clones from? I heard to do that two weeks before flower but at this rate can i wait another two weeks to flower. Can i cute the top off? I read in a book that makes the best clone but what would it do to the plant. Just curious since the other is so short and needs to maybe catch up.

My stealgrow light is shipped out for warranty work. They are taking a look at it and fixing the moisture behind the glass. That had me worried but so far the warranty department seems to have it together pretty well. He said he will try and fix to ship out same day and paid for all UPS shipping. Hopefully all goes well and it arrives soon. Wanna see what this thing can do since i've only had people really recommend the spectra leds
 
seedling29.JPG

Having trouble getting other pics up.
 
badandy said:
well the night you responded i measured the large one at 11" and 46" roots. So you were probably close to right on guessing 44". I read if I cut the tap root that i'm pretty much giving her a sex change. Is there any other way to avoid that from happening (Not sure this will work, but it is reversible. Get something like cheese cloth and tie up 4-6" from the bottom. Stopping the tap from slurping will help lateral root development) because i think i see exactly what you mean about lateral roots. the one that kept the tap root out of the water got really bushy roots much higher up and the other just continued to grow roots in water at bottom.

The bottom feeder is the healthier and taller looking one up top though. It grew another inch since yesterday and is just over 13" now but the other one is just hanging out between 8-9" for the last few days. (Lateral root development takes away from plant growth until the laterals are more developed, then the top goes crazy) I'll attach some pics of them. I started with 3 clones and then this seed from a bag of some good purp. The one clone really suffered from the heat that morning and is looking much perkier but roots still looking shitty and not growing anymore. Its just hanging out basically. (Put a clear plastic drinking cup/container over the wilted plant during the day until it perks up. You may need to trim the outer edges of the primary leaves)

I'm still going 2 to 1 bloom and micro with GH. and right now I raised my ppm to almost 400 and don't see any neg changes. I just still have the same problems on certains leaves here and there with black spots and tips. You can see in the pics. Should I be trimming off some of the lower growth on the all one or is it ready soon to try and make clones from? I heard to do that two weeks before flower but at this rate can i wait another two weeks to flower. Can i cute the top off? I read in a book that makes the best clone but what would it do to the plant. Just curious since the other is so short and needs to maybe catch up. I have cut tops, trimmed fan leaves like crazy, but no longer do that. I will snip a top to bifercate, but that's about it. Take your clones from the lower brances

My stealgrow light is shipped out for warranty work. They are taking a look at it and fixing the moisture behind the glass. That had me worried but so far the warranty department seems to have it together pretty well. He said he will try and fix to ship out same day and paid for all UPS shipping. Hopefully all goes well and it arrives soon. Wanna see what this thing can do since i've only had people really recommend the spectra leds
Click to expand...
There are other VG LED lights. Did Advanced buy out Stealth? I'll check your pics later. Running out
 
Photo Update: Miss Lonely is packing on the pistils, trics and calyxes. Probably 2-3 more weeks. Her roots are brown due to adding Neptune Harvest Seaweed Plant Food (0-0-1). Also, her smallish roots are the result of me being extremely sick for 2 weeks during early veg, and not being able to care for the plants. Most people would have given her up for dead, but HPA is capable of resurrecting the near dead, and here she is.


IMG_07687.JPG


IMG_07709.JPG


The following pics are from my new grow. It was about this time in veg that I got sick last time. Here's hoping for much improved growth and more females. The plants in upper left and right were not getting good misting. Both are recovering now.

IMG_077113.JPG


IMG_07727.JPG


IMG_07736.JPG
/data/500/IMG_07727.JPG[/img]
 
I know many of you want definitive steps to follow, but there are simply too many variables. The good news is as long as you are in the ball park, your plants will do amazing things. and the closer you get, the greater the rewards. Besides, how much reality programming can you watch?

My starter system uses a cycle timer whose lowest setting is 30 seconds (needs to be replaced to a more expensive timer with much lower on cycles). I am finding that the minimum of 30 seconds in my starter system is way too long for young developing plants. Two days ago I was forced to move 4 plants that are 5 weeks old out of my starter system and into my main system because their roots had already reached the bottom of the 15" deep pod.

Worse, the roots were beginning to take on the appearance of DWC roots- overcooked slimy spaghetti. Proper roots are loaded with lateral roots that make them look like fish bones. You won't get them if the pod environment is constantly damp and wet. Roots need some dry time between feedings to process the nutes, as well as to develop the lateral roots.

In the main system I can adjust feed cycle down to 2 seconds. I decided to start with 5 seconds as these were getting 30, and am monitoring how the roots (and plants) respond. So far, so good.

Once the plant is well into flower mode, increasing the feed time 'might' be a good thing. I will soon see. I am hoping it is not the problem that the developing roots had, which forced me to move the 4 plants to my main system, which meant having to move my one flowering female, who is 2-3 weeks from harvest, into my starter system with 30 second minimum feed cycles.

It's been 2 days and she seems no worse for wear, but her roots were well established, so she may be better able to handle the longer feed cycle this late in her life, which is 2-3 weeks more. Time will tell.

hth
 
Well I just got my light back from stealth grow. I'm really amazed with their service. Unless I just got lucky they seem to be a great company as far as taking care of the customer. I sent in for condensation inside and with warranty expiring last week I wanted them to look at it before hand since I had just picked it up off craigslist. They emailed me prepaid shipping label and sent me back a brand new in the box newer model. This one they said online is 25% brighter and has a mixture of 3 and 2 watt chips. It took a few days longer than they said but well worth it for a brand new light. I noticed it has more blue in it now and clear or white ones. I'll have to see what it can do.

As for the plants. The tall one hit 17 1/2" today. The other one is at 12". I guess now is time to start flowering but I wasn't sure about trying to get clones. I should have done it already but i read not to do less than 2 weeks before flowering. Should I just leave them how they sit and start to flower?
My third clone that almost died and lost a lot of roots is growing many roots back and looking good up top sitting around 9". I can just wait and try to take clones from that one instead of stressing the two healthy ones. I noticed the same problem with the slimy spaghetti roots you mentioned. I am thinking of switching to somethign else from the GH lucas formula i've been using.

The two healthy ones have too much of thier roots at the bottom of the tote in the 4" of water to remove now but I think the 3rd clone and seed i planted are only about 20" so should i remove all of the water from the bottom of that tote and allow it to drain so that it doesn't stay as humid and hopefully develop more of the lateral roots with fishbones and fuzz?
I also picked up a couple 5 gallon buckets and thought about a single nozzle and plant in a couple of those would work. I saw the youtube video showing the 50 micron mist in those buckets with a ½ pount plant. I want to post more pics like how you do directly into the thread here but idk how. I'll try to figure it out tomorrow and show some new ones. I can't even figure out how to delete the ones i've posted in my profile. totally new to this stuff.
 
Bada: Lucky you. Sounds like they incorporate the latest thinking- more spectrums, into their new light.

I would get that nutrient bath out of the pod ASAP. You might get away with it, if, the temp and RH inside the pod are cool.

Quick Update: Both grows are doing fine. I do need to put something in the bottom of the main system as those roots grew to long too fast when they were feeding on 30 second cycles.

I am experimenting using net pots directly underneath the longest roots filled with lava rock, but will need to address the entire bottom as they have 6-8 weeks to go.

I have a plastic lighting grill somewhere. I' m going to try to cut it down to size put it close to the bottom then cover with lava rock. If the rock doesn't work, I will try silk screen

Lonely Girl is blowing my mind. Within 2 full days of 30 second feed times tric, pistil and calyx production has easily doubled.

It didn't dawn on me until this morning to dilute the nute ppms as each feed cycle is so much longer. This Saturday's photo should be wild.

hth
 
Photo Update Trics have easily quadrupled in one week. In my last 3 grows I did not have this. I contribute much of it to switching to DM nutes, but I have also refined my method.

IMG_0777_640x565_.jpg


IMG_0781_2_427x640_.jpg


The following photos are inside the pod. Notice there are 2 mist heads; one is a double, one is a single mist head. One of the really cool things about these mist heads is that they are adjustable, which allows for easy positioning to better aim for best coverage.

The roots in the second photo are from plants that are now 6 weeks old. This is not uncommon when feeding via atomized mist, especially when feed cycles are too long. In this case they were getting 30 seconds, but only because the timer in the system they were in for 2 weeks lowest on setting is 30 seconds.

They have now been in the main system for one week getting only 5 second feed times (reduced today to 4 seconds). The long slimy spaghetti strings are filling in with lateral roots which means they are more efficient due not only to having more surface area but the lateral roots are highly efficient eaters where the spaghetti roots are not.

IMG_07748.JPG


IMG_0782_640x427_.jpg


hth

 
I moved the cone shaped Orgonite, sitting amongst the plants, into the rez. I also have a large crystal in the rez.

Feed Cycle A Mentor finally got it through my thick skull that what I am shooting for inside the pod is for it to be neither too wet, nor too dry.

My new feed schedule is ~ one second feed and 30-40 second pause. I should probably pause around 10 seconds, but dropping from 40 to 30 means using 25% more nutes. I may mix up a double batch and drop pause < 20 to see what happens. If the plants grow faster (they should) then it might be worth the extra ~ 40-50% more nutes. As a personal use grower, that's not a big deal, but if I was running a commercial set up I would incorporate an accumulator, which would allow for roughly 0.3 second feeds dropping me from roughly one gallon of spent nutes per hour to 1/3 gallon per hour. That would be a HUGE cost benefit, AND the plants should grow even faster

Also after studying a DIY nutes thread, I am of the mind to switch from the DM Gold line to their ONE for both Grow and Flower, but during Flower add their Potash+, and still use Zone and Silica. This will not only make mixing easier, it will save a lot of money

hth
 
Cool journal, your plants look really nice. If you've tried AN nutes how do you compare them to the DM?

Also, it's kind of a silly thing to quibble over but I did want to point out one thing:

PetFlora said:
The plants' natural light requirement is 20/4 from seed to harvest.
Click to expand...

If a strain is an autoflower it's not really accurate to say that the natural light requirement is 20/4. There isn't anywhere on earth that a plant would get that kind of light exposure consistently throughout it's life cycle, so strictly speaking it wouldn't be the natural requirement.

The way I understand it the explanation for autoflowering is that certain strains developed in regions where they had to adapt to flowering within a growing season that didn't see enough change in lighting periods to trigger flowering in time, so the plants that succeeded were the ones that had a built-in timer. Then those plants were used by the cross breeders to create the strains we use today as autoflowering strains.

So naturally they'd probably be getting something more along the lines of 18/6. But like you said later, the more light you give the better the plants develop. It's not strictly "natural", but it is better.
 
Huh, can't imagine me meaning to say "the plant's natural light requirement is 20/4", clearly not true. Reefer Madness:tokin:

I came close to buying into ANs hype, but am now a much more educated consumer. I decided to go with DM since they are one of the few nute companies (the only?) actually formulating specifically for hydro and mj: besides, there is some controversy regarding AN using EDTA as a chelator, something about being toxic to plants.

I am quite happy with the results of using the full GOLD line, but due to learning about the actual nutrient needs, I now think my obsession regarding what my girls actually need to be healthy, and provide maximum results is too anal, unnecessary and expensive. How much and how well they eat has to do with optimizing nutrient delivery, which is where TAG comes in.

I 'think' I can get similar results using only DM's ONE Grow for both grow and flower, but in flower simply add DM Potash Plus to increase the P & K ratio. I will continue to use Zone, Silica and LL/S, but likely will not replace ADD.27 when I run out. New pics tomorrow

hth
 
March 26th. Lonely Girl bottom photo has ~ 7 more days. Not sure the photo will show how PHAT she has gotten in one week.

Since further reducing pause time (now 20 seconds) the plants are looking very healthy. Too bad I had to leave these 4 plants in my back up system with minimum 30 second timer, as the roots should look more like a ball instead of a long rope now collecting on the bottom.

If I am going out, or at lights out I increase to 40 seconds as there is twice as much runoff at 20 seconds and I don't have room for a large catch bucket.

All 4 plants were germed at the same time. The large plant in the middle is BCBud Mango, the other 3 are the last of my supposed AFs (a X between Bubblicious and LowRyder #2). These seeds have been a pain in that 9 out of the 10 seeds did not act like AFs, and as you can see are slow growers.

IMG_078313.JPG


IMG_0785_640x426_.jpg


IMG_0782_640x427_.jpg


IMG_0780_2_.JPG
 
New Development

Eureka- Root Hairs!

Atomizer is right again. He has been mentoring me on another site. Though I have my pod dialed in (or so I thought) my roots lacked root hairs, which are fuzzies that grow on the lateral roots. Having them is a sure sign your roots are ingesting the max amount of nutes per feeding.

Atomizer pointed out that my problem was a combination of a pod too small and a mist cycle too long. He said my pod remained too wet between W/D cycles for root hair development. I either needed to cut my wet cycle from one second to 0.03 seconds which one cannot do without a more sophisticated system (accumulator) or increase pod size. I replaced the 17G tote with a 30G tote: doubling the pod volume did the trick.

2 days after moving plants to 30G pod I am seeing a fair amount of root hairs developing. It's a beautiful thing. Plant growth and yield should now be near their max potential.

If I had this dialed in from the beginning of this grow the plants would be farther along then they are now, which isn't terrible by any other measurement.


W/D is now 1sec/55 seconds.

Due to the high ambient room temp I do have some condensation on the inside pod walls. I will look into wrapping pod with insulating foam, or wrapping with some windscreen reflectors that I have on hand. TBC

hth
 
PetFlora said:
Huh, can't imagine me meaning to say "the plant's natural light requirement is 20/4", clearly not true. Reefer Madness:tokin:
Click to expand...

NP, we've all been there.

PetFlora said:
I came close to buying into ANs hype, but am now a much more educated consumer.
Click to expand...

That's a bit insulting to the guys (myself included) that use AN. Not that I'm taking it personally or anything - just saying that it looks like you're implying that education turned you away from AN and therefore those who haven't turned away aren't educated.

PetFlora said:
I decided to go with DM since they are one of the few nute companies (the only?) actually formulating specifically for hydro and mj
Click to expand...

Advanced Nutrients is in that club as well. They have a couple things specific to soil, but all their major products are hydro-specific and IIRC every single thing they make is formulated for MJ. They've got that whole testing lab in Bulgaria they got the government there to give them permission to use for testing nutrients on MJ.

PetFlora said:
besides, there is some controversy regarding AN using EDTA as a chelator, something about being toxic to plants.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of skeptical about that. I've been using it for years and never had any problems like that at all. Do you have a link for that?


Anyway, not trying to derail your journal or change your mind about how you're growing. Your plants keep getting better so obviously you're doing fine. It's funny how making things too easy for your plants can actually hurt them, eh? Like if the roots get too easy access to water and nutrients the plant gets lazy and doesn't grow bigger roots?

They actually need a certain amount of challenge to overcome to become their best.
 

I was referring to the cost- benefit, and that in spite of Big Mike's independent lab analysis regarding P, their products and boosters are still very high in P, on top of being tres-expensive. Maybe they will be replacing their current products with Bulgaria's input, but probably not, as it would mean they were wrong all along.

Even with DM, as soon as I run out of the full Gold line up, I am going to switch to DM Gold ONE for veg and flower, but add a dash of DM Potash+ (unless I can find something with lower or no P). Not even sure the cost-benefit of ADD.27 makes sense, but I will continue to use Zone, Silica, and ff with LL/S.

Mixing is no big deal for me, but DM ONE is super cheap compared to the full Gold product line.

I hypothesize (based on reading A/Bs from others) that mj is not so sensitive to nutes to warrant obsessing about it. Meaning? Improvements in yield were insignificant between basic nutes and exotic multi-part formulas.

hth
 
Back
Top Bottom