ilikemsticky
Well-Known Member
if you discover something really good I can get those things if its worth it!
High Brix Hydroponics
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- #82
Skybound
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I kind'a feel like I'm over thinking that, and I'm getting the same vibe from you. I notice in my big pretty leaves that the outer areas near the margins have a dark green/bluish hue that I read once denotes copper def, and I was already considering upping the Cu next time I make another micro concentrate, so maybe I'll just supplement it in a foliar spray. The K undoubtedly is supplied by seaweed extract (0-0-17), adding the P will take some more research as my only source of it now is monopotassium phosphate (0-52-34). Anyone know, or have reading something in passing about using/including ammonium in foliar sprays?
Sticky, my concern for you (and Penny if you're in dirt too) is that I'd be aiming to supplement my own nutrient regimen which may, or may not jive with the chemistry going on in various soils, so it may just be that my final formulation for the foliar might end up being your starting point. I am also aiming to get most or even all of my calcium in through the roots unless I read somewhere that is would be better to apply in the spray. I assume your calcium content in the dirt is copacetic? It would be nice to come up with a one spray does all recipe.
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- #83
Skybound
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This is a good read so far. After reading page one, it implies how zinc is absorbed into the leaf from being sprayed on. I would think all contents of the spray would apply this way.
When applying foliar sprays when lights go off, is it still advisable to spray onto the bottoms of leaves? For me, it would be more convenient to spray from the top down because I have to reach in with a wand, so I can't really aim per say. I'd rather be spraying away from the fixture in the dark than towards it.
When applying foliar sprays when lights go off, is it still advisable to spray onto the bottoms of leaves? For me, it would be more convenient to spray from the top down because I have to reach in with a wand, so I can't really aim per say. I'd rather be spraying away from the fixture in the dark than towards it.
ilikemsticky
Well-Known Member
i realize that what you may end up with will be a foliar that goes hand in hand with your set up but I could get an idea from it sometimes I here things that give me an idea to try something new im always open to new things unfortunately the bottom of the leaves is where that foliar needs to be youll get a lot more results that way just saying bud!
I’m in coco, foliar is interesting because of how hard it is to get nutes where they need to be through the roots.
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- #86
Skybound
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Another paper I want to read maybe discussing the relation of zinc (& other micros?) to brix.
Yes because if any micro is deficient then the whole grow will be less than optimum.
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- #88
Skybound
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One of the selling points of high brix bud is the nutrient density which leads me to believe this is somehow related to the sucrose percentage (brix%). Looking at the contents of that Brix Boost product I pictured last night, I can see they use like 4 different things with the suffix "ose" which I'm fairly sure is sugar related. Also, after just a bit more reading in the last link I posted, as well as another document I have, Boron is directly related to the assimilation and transport of carbohydrates, so I can slowly start to see how the various micro nutrients each contribute a smaller part of the process which leads to sweeter nutrient dense produce. The last link suggests 4% boron to 8% zinc, so that would be a good starting point, and as research leads, determine what other contents I also want to add and try out. I already know I want some more calcium, there's P and K in the brix/snake oil combo as well as copper. The Brix Boost also had Mo, Mn and Mg, so at this point, the spray should have EVERYTHING that's already in the res. IDK about y'all but this conclusion is cracking me up. More reading for sure, but more or less, it's looking like that all of the elements are in the same range or spectrum or within 20ppm of everything else with only certain elements accentuated. Having the otherwise trace elements at par with macro nutrients however might be speaking in volumes when considering their ranges in the reservoir.
Edit - when reviewing the Brix Boost analysis, I see they have zinc-boron at 1-0.4 which is about the same to what the other paper suggested at 0.8-0.4, so I can pretty much mimic the contents of Brix Boost with what I have on hand and do my best with sugar replacement and amino chelation. I only have the basic macros and sulfate micros, so exotic things like phosphoric acid I didn't acquire yet, so I'll have to sub out things with what I have to begin experimenting.
Edit - when reviewing the Brix Boost analysis, I see they have zinc-boron at 1-0.4 which is about the same to what the other paper suggested at 0.8-0.4, so I can pretty much mimic the contents of Brix Boost with what I have on hand and do my best with sugar replacement and amino chelation. I only have the basic macros and sulfate micros, so exotic things like phosphoric acid I didn't acquire yet, so I'll have to sub out things with what I have to begin experimenting.
ilikemsticky
Well-Known Member
that's exactly what it is the sugar content in the plant the higher the brix -more sugar too bad we cant just feed them sugar and get it done lol!
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- #90
Skybound
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When comparing the contents of Brix related products, I find they do add sugars into the contents list as any of the "ose" suffixed words. To start off in a foliar, I plan to try molasses as it's what I got, but I need to figure out how much calories is desired in the spray.
ilikemsticky
Well-Known Member
probably not much when I foliar its very diluted you want to go easy!
I figure you’ve solved this by now and bought a pump sprayer?
Yep
. Ha ha ha. I gave up and went back to the bottle.
Sky, while I agree that there is merit to fine-tuning your elemental ppms in the fertigation solution, I think that as long as you provide what would be considered “luxury levels” of all required nutrients, that maybe all you can do in that direction.
So, I would experiment with questions like how high can you go with various elements before there is toxicity or an antagonistic response with other nutrients.
I have been researching the plant response to the foliar application of fulvic acid, and have ordered some to try out. Will keep you apprised.
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- #94
Skybound
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Sky, while I agree that there is merit to fine-tuning your elemental ppms in the fertigation solution, I think that as long as you provide what would be considered “luxury levels” of all required nutrients, that maybe all you can do in that direction.
So, I would experiment with questions like how high can you go with various elements before there is toxicity or an antagonistic response with other nutrients.
I have been researching the plant response to the foliar application of fulvic acid, and have ordered some to try out. Will keep you apprised.
My studies indicate it would be much wiser to experiment with the borderline of deficient due to it being much easier to correct a deficiency than reverse a toxicity, unless of course one has the space to give to plants that are expendable. Because I wholly rely on the success of my crops, I must keep my tweaks small. It likely will slow my learning curve, it will however ensure I can live as I learn.
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- #95
Skybound
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yeah I got a small half gallon jobby but I don't like that it's pressurized and doesn't atomize goon enough so it more or less fires out droplets rather than creates a mist. I'd feel a lot better misting leaves instead of pressure washing them in the dark. I tried looking for printable atomizing tips but found none. I'll eventually break down and try to design and print one, but I wish they made spray bottles where the sprayer tip was on the end of a wand, and considering the industry, I'm dumbfounded that this does not already exist.
I get it. Someone with a lot of clones, enough medicine, and lots of time and patience will have to take that on.
I was thinking that one could start with the standard accepted levels of, in particular, the micros, and double the level of each one, one for each clone, and record the results. Then triple the levels, quadruple, etc. Maybe try several different combinations, and see if just elevating those elements has a brix-enhancing effect.
I think the deficiency levels of these nutrients are well understood. But there may be magic between what’s generally accepted and toxicity.
I haven’t looked at the pump sprayers much, but I think there are good quality and bad quality versions. The serious gardener types seem to use them. Not that I know a ton of those people but the ones I’ve met do. I do have a botanist friend in the city who seems to have it in hand constantly and he just controls the type of spray with the tip, and the pressure obviously by how much he pumps it up- for like 10,000 exotic delicate plants in teeny tiny pots everywhere.
I’ll ask him about this.
I’ll ask him about this.
I've pretty much settled on the idea of just foliar feeding the calcium to my plants. Though I understand foliar feeding, I haven't done it and was curious about a couple specific things if you guys have ideas.
1. Are magnesium and low amounts of sulphur well received via foliar feeding or better left out?
2. Do you think there's any inherent damage to mixing in a little carbonated water into the foliar with calcium carbonate to introduce CO2 to the water and help enhance solubility? Since this is hitting the leaves and not the roots it seems like it could actually be very beneficial, but not positive.
1. Are magnesium and low amounts of sulphur well received via foliar feeding or better left out?
2. Do you think there's any inherent damage to mixing in a little carbonated water into the foliar with calcium carbonate to introduce CO2 to the water and help enhance solubility? Since this is hitting the leaves and not the roots it seems like it could actually be very beneficial, but not positive.
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- #99
Skybound
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I'm not yet in the mindset of contemplating a foliar spray with micros, but when it comes to mixing micros for reservoir use, one must mix up a concentrate to make 1000 gallons of reservoir. The reason being is because to achieve 0.05 ppm of molybdenum, you must up everything to that level in order to resolve the Mo to a weigh-able amount. After targeting Mo to that, multiplied by 1000, the needed weight is still leass than a half gram to make foe those thousand gallons. I only have a scale that will do 0.00. I might have been able to make a hundred gallon mix with a 0.000 scale, but those are pricey. I'll likely need to mix something like 0.10 grams of each micro to their own gallon of RO, then retrieving super small doses will be much easier.
Also, I'm of the belief that foliar applications can tolerate higher concentrations of elements, but I'll need to verify that before mixing. Doc's Snake Oil has the levels of the macros near 5% or less, and the micros around 2% down to 0.2%, as well as the Brix Boost seems to more or less agree with with those concentrations which is reassuring.
Even if you can call your guy and ask for the name of the product, or other key words he might mention that I can use as search terminology because when I searched for after market tips, there's not much there either. I'm almost half tempted to get a small pressure washer on account of how they constantly mist when you're not squeezing the trigger. With that I can just toggle the power switch while aiming in the general area of leaves, lol.
How late into bloom can foliar sprays be applied? Do you spray cola bottoms too?
LOL dude in my world this would be a disaster waiting to happen. Can just see myself wide eyed saying, "oh shit" as I look around the part of the bedroom I accidentally just sprayed down with calcium via pressure washer
