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re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

Leaves curling up is a big indicator of transpiration. Basically the leaves are trying to get rid of moisture. If you have a fan blowing directly on the leaves hat see curling up, this could be a problem. The constant wind will keep the transpiration low and won't allow them to do their thing. They try to reduce their surface space by curling up in an attempt to transpire faster. Also lights being a little too close could be. I'm running into that same problem now. I raised my lights and raised the fan so they are only blowing on the lights and not the plants. It fixed the problem for me in about a day or two.
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

GB80 -- good point. if I had a stash and more space I'd love to try various methods / experiments.

I have about a dozen (un-germinated) seeds. I figure if I kill them all in DWC I better try soil or coco before jumping into DWC... I'm not going to give up easily :)


Grouchy -- thanks a bunch for the info. Giving it a few days to see if my modifications help out.

Unfortunately I'm seeing a few minor "rust spots" on a few leaves. The guys at the hyrdo shop suggested a calmag additive when using FF nutes as supposedly FF is low in cal. I've read this a few places online, but not sure I 100% trust the hydro shop guys; they seem willing to sell you anything they can.

I'm going to see if I can make some progress on this issue myself. If not I'll probably have to ask for some tips.
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

okay so I lied... I'm going to post some pics of the plant I'm concerned about now in case anybody swings by here and has an idea.

here's all the plants for ref.. it appears some of the other plants have some "minor" signs of "tacoing" or "canoeing", but not as bad as the one in the bottom middle. also you can't really see it here, but one of the white widows (right side) also has some very small rust colored specs...
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here's 2 shots of the super sour alien I mentioned above (bottom middle)
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her lower leaves are in bad shape and you can see some rusting on the other large set of fan leaves.

as you know I have zero experience, but based on comments here (thanks again guys) and other reading the order of potential problems seems to be:
1) heat / light stress
2) lack of cal??
3) reaction to nutes (upped to around 400PPM on Monday)??
4) all of the above?? :)

current plan is:
1) raise lights and take direct fans off the plants + monitor canopy (if you will) temp
2) check into some light cal/mag supplements for the regimen
3) flush the plants and re-nute a little lower


I'm working on #1 in a few ways, but it hasn't even been 24hrs since I raise the light, etc...
Checking into #2, may supplement with something just to be safe.
Thinking to do #3 if things seem to get worse in a few days.


A few notes:
- I read some sour strains are more susceptible to tacoing leaves...
- I've always read you should keep CFLs very close to plant (1-2") and that if you have good air moment warmer canopy temps are okay... Apparently that may not be the case in my setup / environment. My cab temp measured mid-way up the cab (out of direct light) is decent; 73 - 78F depending on room temp. Right at leaf level however, the temps are well into the 80sF as you can see in the pic.
- The RH right atop the res (next to plants) is low... 20-30%.. If measured mid-way up the cab wall it averages around 50%.
- (unrelated) I'm considering adding some hydroguard since I'm no longer using h2o2..



If anybody has thoughts, I'm all ears and greatly appreciate it!
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

cogreen said:
okay so I lied... I'm going to post some pics of the plant I'm concerned about now in case anybody swings by here and has an idea.

here's all the plants for ref.. it appears some of the other plants have some "minor" signs of "tacoing" or "canoeing", but not as bad as the one in the bottom middle. also you can't really see it here, but one of the white widows (right side) also has some very small rust colored specs...
resized0023.jpg


here's 2 shots of the super sour alien I mentioned above (bottom middle)
resized0012.jpg

resized0004.jpg


her lower leaves are in bad shape and you can see some rusting on the other large set of fan leaves.

as you know I have zero experience, but based on comments here (thanks again guys) and other reading the order of potential problems seems to be:
1) heat / light stress
2) lack of cal??
3) reaction to nutes (upped to around 400PPM on Monday)??
4) all of the above?? :)

current plan is:
1) raise lights and take direct fans off the plants + monitor canopy (if you will) temp
2) check into some light cal/mag supplements for the regimen
3) flush the plants and re-nute a little lower


I'm working on #1 in a few ways, but it hasn't even been 24hrs since I raise the light, etc...
Checking into #2, may supplement with something just to be safe.
Thinking to do #3 if things seem to get worse in a few days.


A few notes:
- I read some sour strains are more susceptible to tacoing leaves...
- I've always read you should keep CFLs very close to plant (1-2") and that if you have good air moment warmer canopy temps are okay... Apparently that may not be the case in my setup / environment. My cab temp measured mid-way up the cab (out of direct light) is decent; 73 - 78F depending on room temp. Right at leaf level however, the temps are well into the 80sF as you can see in the pic.
- The RH right atop the res (next to plants) is low... 20-30%.. If measured mid-way up the cab wall it averages around 50%.
- (unrelated) I'm considering adding some hydroguard since I'm no longer using h2o2..



If anybody has thoughts, I'm all ears and greatly appreciate it!
Click to expand...

For the tacoing, if thats 84℉ I'd say heat is the cause. Might have to move lights even further away. Or increase airflow. I noticed the same thing on the top 2 nodes of my tallest plant, but it's about 6 inches from the led.

For brown spots I had similar and I thought it was cal mag defeciency but ended up just being ph.
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

your plants look fine. your new growth is a healthy green. the discolor on the lower leaves looks like nute splash. don't worry about those first leaves. your new growth looks normal. keep nutes, if at all, to a minimum.
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

thanks for the comments / tips guys -- really appreciate it.

i made some mods to my cab to reduce temp + direct fan and the plants seem to be doing well. the other thing I did was add some calmag plus in there. foxfarms said they test with tap water and thus assume you have some cal in your base already; hence adding some calmag for me made sense (i use filtered water with very low base PPM; we have damn good water here). when I added the calmag the PPMs went up to 510, and withing 24 hours its already back down to the 420PPM range. my PH fluctuation also seems more stable now -- not sure if its a result of the calmag or what, but I won't complain.

i'm going to switch the res on monday and a few other minor mods to the cab for temp. I'll post pics up after I get that done.

the root system is really taking off. i suspect in a week or so I'll have to determine which plants I'm keeping and get rid of the rest before they outgrow the single res.

thanks again all and hope everyone is having a good weekend!
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

Cologrow said:
Dwc isn't really that difficult just give a rooted plant air and food and they grow don't over think it it's just a weed. If it was in you front yard which I have some there you probably couldn't kill it.
Click to expand...

yeah i tend to be a bit OCD... sometimes that works in my favor and other times not! :)
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

update time...

- I switched out the res yesterday. with my base FF nutes I'm @ 450PPM, but after adding cal-mag and a few other add-ons my PPM is around 650PPM. according to the FF schedule this week calls for "Microbe Brew" and thus my res includes; 2:1 ratio of Big Bloom to Grow Big, Hydroguard (as per specs), 2ml/gal calmag plus, Microbe Brew @ 1/2 of recommended strength. that's a lot of shit, I know, but that's what I have :)
- Since the res change my PH has been a bit unstable, but hoping things stabilize today. Prior to this res change my PH was very stable; I don't think I had to PH up or down in 4 days.

some pics from this AM.

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you can see some rust / issues on some of the lower leaves, but IMO the new growth isn't looking too bad. to me it seems the growth is pretty slow, but IMHO the key is new / healthy growth... and I haven't killed anything (yet).

my plan is just to manage PH and keep an eye on them. no res change scheduled until next monday (every week for me).

I'm guessing in a week or so I'll have to figure out which 2 plants I'm keeping and what to do with the rest. Likely I'll be giving away a few plants; CO residents only.

comments / suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated.

happy growing all!!
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

You could flip them now and be able to keep them all in that res. If you chose to do that you would definitely need to space them out a bit more. Half one side half the other. Looks like the t5 would cover the whole thing so coverage shouldn't be an issue. Plus it would give you about the same yield without having to cull plants (unless there is a male). But your setup is looking awesome! Maybe add a bit of cal/mag to help along the way so you won't have further deficiencies. Great job on the new res and the grow!

Edit: saw you added cal/mag - I'm an idiot, ignore that:)
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

GB80 -- thanks for stoppin' by and all the great advice!!

guambomb80 said:
You could flip them now and be able to keep them all in that res. If you chose to do that you would definitely need to space them out a bit more. Half one side half the other. Looks like the t5 would cover the whole thing so coverage shouldn't be an issue. Plus it would give you about the same yield without having to cull plants (unless there is a male).
Click to expand...

yeah I'm pondering what to do here... thinking my next step is to cull 2 plants (destination unknown), and keep 4 (2 per res, but when i add the other res all 8 T5s will go on, not just 4 T5s like I have now) for an additional while. this would allow me to try out main-lining on 4 plants rather than 2; just in case I hurt anything during training. I may try to transplant 1 of the WW's to my wife's veggie garden (fenced, private and locked yard); that could be interesting.

thanks again man!
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

so what happens when all the roots grow together?

that's why I am using separate containers after the little sprouts grow up a bit.
 
re: Cogreen's First Grow - White Widow & Super Sour Alien With Indoor DWC & T5 CFL

KingSparta said:
so what happens when all the roots grow together?

that's why I am using separate containers after the little sprouts grow up a bit.
Click to expand...

The bigger roots thrive and stunt the others. I killed one of mine trying to untangle them.
IMG_20150803_075515.jpg
 
Atulip / KingSparta -- thanks for watchin' out for me and my roots guys!! I really do appreciate it.


so just to recap -- the plan here is to put my other res in the cab (same as the existing cooler you see above) and cull plants so that I only have 1 plant per res (2 plants total). although these reservoirs are a bit shallow I think I can make them work; 1 plant per res. if necessary I'll put some hydrocorn under the plant and let its roots grow into the hydrocorn. I've seen this done an it adds a lot of stability to the plant.... we'll see how it goes.

I'm thinking next week I'll move the other res in there and cull 2 plants. this will leave me with 4 plants; 2 per res (which I can space out a little) and soon thereafter main-line training will start. likely the week after I'll cull 2 more plants and be left with 1 per res. I'm trying to reduce risk here as I believe there's a decent possibility I'll mess something up during veg / training. that's why I'd like to try and keep 4 plants for another few weeks.

thanks again guys!
 
side notes:

- These T5s are stronger than I expected. They need to be kept about 3-4" from the plant at this stage, otherwise the plant shows signs of heat stress (even though temps are below 80F)... Maybe when the plants are a bit older the T5s can get closer.
- Had to hook my humidifier to timer as the humidifier running during lights-out causes too much condensation in the cab.
- Was looking into LEDs, but I don't believe LEDs will work for me in this cab with my height restrictions (48" total)... Considering if / what supplemental lighting I might add for flower later (assuming I get that far).
- I love living in CO; where else can you run by a handful of houses during your morning jog that smell like they are amidst a flower cycle!
 
cogreen said:
side notes:

- These T5s are stronger than I expected. They need to be kept about 3-4" from the plant at this stage, otherwise the plant shows signs of heat stress (even though temps are below 80F)... Maybe when the plants are a bit older the T5s can get closer.
- Had to hook my humidifier to timer as the humidifier running during lights-out causes too much condensation in the cab.
- Was looking into LEDs, but I don't believe LEDs will work for me in this cab with my height restrictions (48" total)... Considering if / what supplemental lighting I might add for flower later (assuming I get that far).
- I love living in CO; where else can you run by a handful of houses during your morning jog that smell like they are amidst a flower cycle!
Click to expand...

I'd definitely go with one per res or space them far apart. Just keep an eye on the roots and if they start growing together that's when to sperate them. The earlier the better. Originally I planned for 2 plants in each of my 10 gallon reservoirs, but waited too long on seperating. Killed one by breaking the roots, decided to just leave them alone.

For leds it's very doable in your box. My tent is never more than 2℉ higher than the house temperature, and I've had the light about 6inches from the tallest plant with minimal light/heat stress. Although I think 12" is about the right distance. These are 3watt chips though; an led with 5 watt chips would probably need to be 18" or so from the top of the canopy.

If you hung an led 6 inches from the top of your box, maintaining 12 inches from the canopy, and your res is ~8 inches tall, you could have your plants up to 22inches before any issues with them too close.
 
Atulip said:
For leds it's very doable in your box. My tent is never more than 2℉ higher than the house temperature, and I've had the light about 6inches from the tallest plant with minimal light/heat stress. Although I think 12" is about the right distance. These are 3watt chips though; an led with 5 watt chips would probably need to be 18" or so from the top of the canopy.

If you hung an led 6 inches from the top of your box, maintaining 12 inches from the canopy, and your res is ~8 inches tall, you could have your plants up to 22inches before any issues with them too close.
Click to expand...

thanks for the input... I see "Grouchy" is using an LED in his 48" cab as well, so seems plausible. I have a little time to think about it, but I suspect an LED will give me better penetration / results for flower than T5s.

I've been looking at getting 2 "Apollo Horticulture GL60LED Full Spectrum 180W LED Grow Light" [1]. One for each plant... I suppose I could always try them out for a week and if they don't work out I can return... sounds like I should start dropping b-day gift hints to my wife; perfect timing! ;)

Apollo Horticulture GL60LED Full Spectrum 180W LED Grow Light
 
cogreen said:
thanks for the input... I see "Grouchy" is using an LED in his 48" cab as well, so seems plausible. I have a little time to think about it, but I suspect an LED will give me better penetration / results for flower than T5s.

I've been looking at getting 2 "Apollo Horticulture GL60LED Full Spectrum 180W LED Grow Light" [1]. One for each plant... I suppose I could always try them out for a week and if they don't work out I can return... sounds like I should start dropping b-day gift hints to my wife; perfect timing! Apollo Horticulture GL60LED Full Spectrum 180W LED Grow Light;)

Apollo Horticulture GL60LED Full Spectrum 180W LED Grow Light​

Click to expand...

Very reasonably priced too, very nice. I'm loving my old style mars hydro 100x3w lights. Right around the same price. Lotta bang for your buck.

From my research when I was buying lights, led will give you better penetration than t5s or cfls, and cut heat down considerably. And with 8 2' t5s they're like 200watts total? The Apollo runs around 109 true watts, so 2 of them would be pretty close to the same energy consumption, with less energy wasted on heat and more towards light.
 
Atulip said:
Very reasonably priced too, very nice. I'm loving my old style mars hydro 100x3w lights. Right around the same price. Lotta bang for your buck.

From my research when I was buying lights, led will give you better penetration than t5s or cfls, and cut heat down considerably. And with 8 2' t5s they're like 200watts total? The Apollo runs around 109 true watts, so 2 of them would be pretty close to the same energy consumption, with less energy wasted on heat and more towards light.
Click to expand...

My current T5 is [1] which says "Rated Wattage 192" -- so yeah you are right on the mark in your 200W guess.

So you think 2 of those LEDs I was looking at (218 true watts) will put out equal or less heat than my T5s?? From a heat perspective isn't true watt for true watt the same amount of heat regardless of light type (T5, LED, HPS...)?

Hydrofarm — Agrobrite T5 192W 2' 8-Tube Fixture with Lamps
 
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