- Thread starter
- #161
Delps8
Well-Known Member
You can get rid of the separate pieces and, second, the ducting creates its own mini-environment.
Glookie (V2) - Delps8 Does NASC/Barney's Farm Glookies In DWC Again
- Thread starter Delps8
- Start date
I raised the lights to the top of the tent and turned them up as we. Those is what it looks like now.
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- #163
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Interesting - that's the output file from the Bluetooth Uni-T. Two seconds and it ranges from 26k to 41k - were you holding the meter in your hand?
Are you converting to PPFD? What's your conversion factor or PPFD reading?
Yes holding in my hand 
Lux x 0.018 for ppfd
Ppfd x daylight hours x 3600/1000000 for DLI
Lux x 0.018 for ppfd
Ppfd x daylight hours x 3600/1000000 for DLI
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- #165
Delps8
Well-Known Member
I suspected that based on the change in lux. A slight change in distance from the light source causes a huge change in intensity.Yes holding in my hand
Lux x 0.018 for ppfd
Ppfd x daylight hours x 3600/1000000 for DLI
0.018 — what light are you using? That factor is higher than anything I have listed except sunlight.
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- #167
Delps8
Well-Known Member
The factor for the XS-1500 is in my PDF. I have a 1500 and, when I tested it with my Apogee, I came up with a factor of 0.145. The spectrum for that light is in the PDF. The XS-1500 Pro has more blue in it as well as more red. I couldn't find anything from the manufacturer on and, since both the red is more prominent in the Pro than in the older model, it might be 0.15.
The data in the PDF are either what I measured (the XS-1500) or available from public sources.
This is the spectrum from the Growcraft flower light. Lots of red and not much blue. Red photons are more electrically efficient so, if the spectrum has more red, it will produce a higher PPFD than a spectrum that is blue-heavy.
Between your two lights, 0.015 will work fine as will 0.0145. It's only 5/10000 different.
I'd use 0.015 since it's easier to type.When you're using a higher factor, the resulting number is higher than the actually PPFD value. At high light levels, it's less of a difference in terms of plant growth because at, say, 60k the 0.018 factor converts to 1080 when in fact your plants are actually getting 900.
The difference between 0.018 and 0.015 at 23k is 414 vs 345 and that change has a significant impact on plant growth rate and development/morphology.
I'd go with 0.015, increase light levels, say, 10% per day until you see signs of photo-inhibition and then drop off 5%. The plant will tell you when it can't handle the photons.
Growcraft 2020 Flower spectrum
Vipar XS-1500
Vipar XS-1500 Pro
The P200 spectrum looks very similar to the XS-1500 so 0.145 or 0.15 would be in the ballpark.
Funny I was looking at that right now and playing around with the spreadsheet. I will plug in .015 and go with that!
So it looks like I was overstating my actual DLI and PPFD previously! and was not in fact in the correct DLI Zone that I wanted to be in! Great catch!
Thanks!
So in that adjustment I am now sitting at a max of 44.76, a low of 31.66 and an average of 31.66. Time to lower the lights!
So it looks like I was overstating my actual DLI and PPFD previously! and was not in fact in the correct DLI Zone that I wanted to be in! Great catch!
Thanks!
So in that adjustment I am now sitting at a max of 44.76, a low of 31.66 and an average of 31.66. Time to lower the lights!
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- #169
Delps8
Well-Known Member
I checked out that page and it's quite helpful.
Re. formula - you can use the table in the PDF or just check the entries in the table at the end of the document. The 0.0.15 factor is commonly used so you might want to run with that.
23000 * 0.015= 345
This all approximation, one reason being the inaccuracy that cropped up when you took your 2 second sample. Just moving the sensor 1" in either direction causes a significant change in PPFD. That's one reason why I don't see any sense behind the idea of "exposing bud sites to light" (besides that fact that they have so little chlorophyll that can't perform photosynthesis to any useful extent). Measure the light 6" below the canopy and you have a numeric value for "DAWA" ("dark as a whale's ass"). There's simply no light down there. That's why scrogging or LST is so beneficial - it broadens that canopy so that light that hits the canopy is fairly uniform and no photons hit the floor.
The latter point is why I'm going to start growing two plants. It's great to have a plant that 30" wide x 24" front to back but that still means that 18/48 of the photons are wasted (30" out of a 48" tent).
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- #170
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Right, the higher factor overstates the actual value. Some growers would call that "a safety factor".
What's your light schedule? I run 24/0 through veg though Bubgee says 20/4 "to give them a little rest".
This was my light for this grow at day 31. This was the last day < 900µmol and it was the last day under the veg light ("X2"). Column 2 is PPFD, column 3 is DLI. The StDev for PPFD was 66 and 6 for DLI so it wasn't the best or the worst.
Day 41:
Columns and rows show average PPFD and DLI values. SD for PPFD/DLI is much better.
DLI ranges from 80 to 90.
Cannabis
I am running 20/4 as of recently when I accidently went 24/7 for 5 days... prior to that I was at 18/6, remember when I said this has been a MESS of a grow LOL.
That is CRAZY!!
Ok I have lowered the lights fixed the formula and am now at an average of 42.75 DLI or 39583 lux or 593.745 PPFD pretty consistently through the tent. This also allowed me to turn my lights down form 100% to 75%, so plenty of headroom.
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- #172
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Yup, I saw that but there's no reason to think that was bad for the plants. Cannabis will stay in veg as long as you want and it you can give it light 24/0. Cannabis does not do "dark cycle processing" so there's no need, in veg, for darkness.
As I said before, Bugbee say that it's probably a good idea to "give them a little rest". Fair enough. But from a plant biology perspective, cannabis can run 24/0 until you decide to flower it. It will simply state in vegetative state until flip.
DLI is a handy measure but PPFD is what determines the light intensity. Even with that, the plant will indicate how much light is too much. I recently thought of it this way - "A light meter tells you how much light your plant is getting. Your plant tells you how much light it can use." It really is that simple. One problem is that growers who have never taken their PPFD into four digits don't have any basis to understand how their plants function at the "light saturation point" (generally referred to as 800-1000µmol in ambient CO2).
Not at all. All of my grows are at the level. For this grow, I managed to poison my plant, along with one other thing, so my yield was in the toilet. Putting that aside, the only way to get a large crop is for the plant to "fix carbon" meaning photosynthesis. That only happens when photons hit the canopy. Photosynthesis creates glucose and O2. If there's more photons, you can get more photosynthesis. If there's fewer photons, you don't get as much photosynthesis.
For years there's been a formula on some web sites where you put in the wattage of your HPS lamps and it estimates yield. HPS is "done" so Mitch Westmoreland reworked the formula and it's part of the videos that he released this Spring, sharing the research that he did for his PhD thesis under Bruce Bugbee (two videos on You Tube).
Instead of watts of power for HPS lamps, the estimate for flower mass is 0.2 to 0.3 gm/mol that the plant has received over its lifetime. Sure, that's a wide variance because providing lotsa light still leaves plenty of opportunities for a grower to shoot himself in the foot but the concept is simple - more light=more flower.
You're almost there.
I thought de Bacco had been pushing 600µmol as the minimum for flower but that's not correct. De Bacco has a lot of YT videos and, the ones on light are, mostly, repackaging Bugbee's numbers (except when he interviewed Shane @ Migro, who, himself, repackages some of Bugbee's numbers). I was looking through the app that I use to take screenshots and here are a few of interest.
First, it's taken me a while to get to 1kµmol. Here's a light sample from some years ago-the 900's are in red because I considered that "high".
He's going with 58 to 65 mol. He doesn't cite any research, unfortunately.
And the reason for that is because, I'm thinking, he read the Chandra paper that shows how the net Photosynthesis ("net P") curve starts to roll off >. 500µmol.
I get that but "I'm not harvesting net P". De Bacco, apparently, hasn't read the Frontiers paper which directly addresses that issue. Net P might start to roll off at 500µmol but, per the paper (attached), "Cannabis Inflorescence Yield Is Proportional to Light Intensity" that doesn't equate to how yield changes. I've attached a highlighted copy of the paper. Search for the word "plasticity" and it explains why Chandra's use of leaf photosynthesis is not valid in terms of determining yield. The Chandra paper is, as far as we know, correct but "I'm not harvesting net P".
Here's de Bacco re. flower and he talks about the minimum being 510µmol, not 600µmol as I've stated a few times.
From the Westmoreland video. He explains that growing at up to 85° while getting as much light as possible on your plant will build out the structure of the plant. Once the plant stops growing (out), which is about the second week of flower, do whatever is needed to keep the tops of the flowers <=78°, while getting as much light as possible on the canopy. If needed, sacrifice PPFD for temperature because, once you exceed 78°, and that is the top number and is strain dependent, secondary metabolites plummet.
If you dredge up his YT vide from about 2021 on "Hemp", he mentions this but it wasn't until he published his research this year that he revealed the details.
I really appreciated learning this because I've had some grow with very high yields (>900gm/sq meter) but the kick wasn't there and I assume that to be the case because my ambient temps were in the low 80's. I shudder to think what the temps at the flower tops were.
Just thought I'd pass these thoughts along because, while it's taken me hundreds of hours to distill down everything I've learned, it really could fit in a PowerPoint slide!
I've put my $$ into the high powered Vipar G4500 but that light won't be in service until October/November since I'll only be using it for flower. Our temps down here in SoCal will be on the warm side this winter (you'll be freezing your buns off from La Niña but, for where I am in SoCal La Niña is warm) so it could be a challenge to keep temps down.
The good thing, though, is that even if I have to drop PPFD to hit my temperature goals, the plants will be large enough because of lotsa light in veg. That's the ticket - lotsa light until week two of flower and then get temps down so that flower tops are well under 78°.
All of this info above is why I'm pushing you to turn up the dimmer.
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- #173
Delps8
Well-Known Member
The Spider G4500 is still in the box. I bought it during Amazon prime but it looks like the sale price I paid is the new price. It's just over $300 so which is a gift.
And just when you thought it was safe…
I'm probably pulling the trigger on a new res setup from PA Hydroponics. Yeh, I've got $60 of white sheet plastic sitting in the box in the garage but there's just a lot of advantages to having two 13 gallon buckets + a 13 gallon bucket for an external reservoir.
A question for me was whether to go with 8 or 13 gallon buckets but, after looking at some of the pictures of root balls from past grows, the 8 gallon size just didn't make sense. The footprint is the same because the 8 and 13 gallon size but the 13 gallon is a few inches taller. There's vertical room in the tent - it's 8' tall - so the larger bucket gets the nod.
The main issue is that I don't have space to put the reservoir to the right of the tent. Per the picture below, I've got to put the res under the "table". PA Hdyro has said they don't do custom setups but, as best I can tell, the only change that's needed is for them is to not glue on one of the bulkheads and send it to me instead. I wrote them today and hope to hear back from them in a day or two.
The other very cool thing is the Mars SP 3000R. Note the "R" on the end. I've got an SP 3000 - it was the light I bought after I got the PPFD map for my 2017 Kind LED (I did one grow in 2017, archived the tent, and then unarchived it in 2021). It's a good light but I decided to go with separate veg and flower LED's.
Fast forward to 8/24 and the Growcrafts are "OBE" ("overcome by events"). The veg light will still do the trick but, for flower, I'm drinking the (Mitch) Westmoreland Koolaid and going with temps <=78° as of the second week in flower while still getting 1kµmol on the canopy.
The easiest way to do that is with a freak of a light like the Vipar 4500. I opted for the G4500 because it had a slightly higher PPF than the SE.
So, now that I'm recovering from the cold I got after I got over Covid, I was thimking about how to get more red in the red photons on the plants. The G4500 has a fair amount of blue
and I'd rather have a spectrum like the (retired) Growcraft flower light:
I've seen the supplemental lights that vendors offer and Spider sells 24" and 35" models. They recommend the 24" model for the 4500 but, lo and behold, the 35" model, which they recommend for this big lights, will fit in the 4500 because the 4500 is as long as their 7000, 8600, etc. lights.
But the 35 inch light only draws 60 watts so it's not going to generate that many red photons. And it's $80 so I'm at $400 for the lighting upgrade.
Then my synapses rattled together and I remember that Mars has a new SP 3000 that just happens to be almost 100% red.
Check it out.
It's "cheap as chips" and generates a huge % of red. But look at the PPFD map. The first thing that strikes me is that the hang height is 24" which is very high. And it generates a lot of light but the PPFD map, frankly, sucks.
The Spider 4500 has incredible uniformity but has a lot of blue. The SP 3000R generates a lot of almost pure red light but has a really funky PPFD map.
There may be a solution.
The SP 3000 is a single bar light meaning it's a 4"± wide light that runs end to end down the tent, If the PPFD map for one light is not good enough, how about two lights?
This approach leaves me with two open issues.
The little one is what is the % of blue in the spectrum. Per Bugbee, cannabis needs at least 4% blue photons to avoid malformed plants. In the graphic below, is there 4% blue? I want to think so because it looks to more than almost nothing and I have to think that the pointy headed guys who design lights for Mars are aware of the 4% figure…or perhaps they think it's 6, don't know but the issue is I suspect that they know how to design a flower light.
I've emailed Mars asking for "Spectral distribution" information and will see where that goes.
The other issue? What does the PPD map look like with two of those lights at 24". For one light, it's just not my cup of tea — I'd rather stay with the Vipar 4500. It's not like things won't work out really well with the 4500, right? On the other hand, with 2 SP 3000R in the tent, I can run them at…30" if I want, the idea being that the > hang height will help the PPFD map even out.
Should that not be the case (yeh, there's another option!)
I do have a "spare" SP 3000 that I bought back in 2021. The 2024 SP 3000 has the same funky PPFD map as the SP 3000R but the 202O model?
No reason I can't add that to the tent, as well.
2020 Mars SP 3000 PPFD Map - note this is a 19.5" hang height
2020 Mars SP 3000 Spectrum
OK, two flower lights and a regular "white" LED in a 2' x 4' tent, it a bit much but it's not that much of a stretch from my current plan of using the G4500. The latter is $320 (and I can still return it) while two SP3000R's will be $250 each + tax or about $250 additional.
Going with the G4500 - the light is already here (no more futzing about), $0 additional, and I've got a regular LED grow light (I don't plan on getting another tent but it is a usable grow light vs the dedicated flower lights from Mars.
Going the Mars flower light route - another $250±, I'm just replacing one flower light (the Growcraft) with another, and wow, holy shit do I have an incredible amount of light to do a "perfect" grow. And if I don't have a perfect grow, it proves the point that growing cannabis is not just a "throw money at it" pastime.
As you might be able to tell, I'm really intrigued by the idea of going with the SP 3000R. I certainly don't need two R's + the 202 model. I could just go with the 2020 SP 3000 and use one R model as a supplemental light. That's still a shitton of photons and the R light boosts my red %.
[time passes]
Just set up the return on Amazon.
And just when you thought it was safe…
I'm probably pulling the trigger on a new res setup from PA Hydroponics. Yeh, I've got $60 of white sheet plastic sitting in the box in the garage but there's just a lot of advantages to having two 13 gallon buckets + a 13 gallon bucket for an external reservoir.
A question for me was whether to go with 8 or 13 gallon buckets but, after looking at some of the pictures of root balls from past grows, the 8 gallon size just didn't make sense. The footprint is the same because the 8 and 13 gallon size but the 13 gallon is a few inches taller. There's vertical room in the tent - it's 8' tall - so the larger bucket gets the nod.
The main issue is that I don't have space to put the reservoir to the right of the tent. Per the picture below, I've got to put the res under the "table". PA Hdyro has said they don't do custom setups but, as best I can tell, the only change that's needed is for them is to not glue on one of the bulkheads and send it to me instead. I wrote them today and hope to hear back from them in a day or two.
The other very cool thing is the Mars SP 3000R. Note the "R" on the end. I've got an SP 3000 - it was the light I bought after I got the PPFD map for my 2017 Kind LED (I did one grow in 2017, archived the tent, and then unarchived it in 2021). It's a good light but I decided to go with separate veg and flower LED's.
Fast forward to 8/24 and the Growcrafts are "OBE" ("overcome by events"). The veg light will still do the trick but, for flower, I'm drinking the (Mitch) Westmoreland Koolaid and going with temps <=78° as of the second week in flower while still getting 1kµmol on the canopy.
The easiest way to do that is with a freak of a light like the Vipar 4500. I opted for the G4500 because it had a slightly higher PPF than the SE.
So, now that I'm recovering from the cold I got after I got over Covid, I was thimking about how to get more red in the red photons on the plants. The G4500 has a fair amount of blue
and I'd rather have a spectrum like the (retired) Growcraft flower light:
I've seen the supplemental lights that vendors offer and Spider sells 24" and 35" models. They recommend the 24" model for the 4500 but, lo and behold, the 35" model, which they recommend for this big lights, will fit in the 4500 because the 4500 is as long as their 7000, 8600, etc. lights.
But the 35 inch light only draws 60 watts so it's not going to generate that many red photons. And it's $80 so I'm at $400 for the lighting upgrade.
Then my synapses rattled together and I remember that Mars has a new SP 3000 that just happens to be almost 100% red.
Check it out.
It's "cheap as chips" and generates a huge % of red. But look at the PPFD map. The first thing that strikes me is that the hang height is 24" which is very high. And it generates a lot of light but the PPFD map, frankly, sucks.
The Spider 4500 has incredible uniformity but has a lot of blue. The SP 3000R generates a lot of almost pure red light but has a really funky PPFD map.
There may be a solution.
The SP 3000 is a single bar light meaning it's a 4"± wide light that runs end to end down the tent, If the PPFD map for one light is not good enough, how about two lights?
This approach leaves me with two open issues.
The little one is what is the % of blue in the spectrum. Per Bugbee, cannabis needs at least 4% blue photons to avoid malformed plants. In the graphic below, is there 4% blue? I want to think so because it looks to more than almost nothing and I have to think that the pointy headed guys who design lights for Mars are aware of the 4% figure…or perhaps they think it's 6, don't know but the issue is I suspect that they know how to design a flower light.
I've emailed Mars asking for "Spectral distribution" information and will see where that goes.
The other issue? What does the PPD map look like with two of those lights at 24". For one light, it's just not my cup of tea — I'd rather stay with the Vipar 4500. It's not like things won't work out really well with the 4500, right? On the other hand, with 2 SP 3000R in the tent, I can run them at…30" if I want, the idea being that the > hang height will help the PPFD map even out.
Should that not be the case (yeh, there's another option!)
I do have a "spare" SP 3000 that I bought back in 2021. The 2024 SP 3000 has the same funky PPFD map as the SP 3000R but the 202O model?
No reason I can't add that to the tent, as well.
2020 Mars SP 3000 PPFD Map - note this is a 19.5" hang height
2020 Mars SP 3000 Spectrum
OK, two flower lights and a regular "white" LED in a 2' x 4' tent, it a bit much but it's not that much of a stretch from my current plan of using the G4500. The latter is $320 (and I can still return it) while two SP3000R's will be $250 each + tax or about $250 additional.
Going with the G4500 - the light is already here (no more futzing about), $0 additional, and I've got a regular LED grow light (I don't plan on getting another tent but it is a usable grow light vs the dedicated flower lights from Mars.
Going the Mars flower light route - another $250±, I'm just replacing one flower light (the Growcraft) with another, and wow, holy shit do I have an incredible amount of light to do a "perfect" grow. And if I don't have a perfect grow, it proves the point that growing cannabis is not just a "throw money at it" pastime.
As you might be able to tell, I'm really intrigued by the idea of going with the SP 3000R. I certainly don't need two R's + the 202 model. I could just go with the 2020 SP 3000 and use one R model as a supplemental light. That's still a shitton of photons and the R light boosts my red %.
[time passes]
Just set up the return on Amazon.
- Thread starter
- #174
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Got an email back from PA Hydro.
Apparently my situation is not that uncommon so they do ship systems without gluing on the bulkhead for the "caterpillar" tube that runs from the rightside bucket, through the port in the tent, and then into the external reservoir.
These pictures are from their web site.
I wil have to make other changes in my setup. The hoses for the water chiller run in to the back left of the res and the sensors for the pH doser and the Bluelab monitor are in the back right.
My plan was to replace the water chiller hoses because they're 3 ½ years old and pretty stiff. The leads for the Bluelab equipment, they really should go into the external res.
And there's a lot of nutes in those buckets. I have a 32 gallon trash can that I use to mix 26 gallons but I'll need to increase that by about another 10 gallons. "Gonna need a bigger boat!"
OK, it's on me now to pull the trigger.
Apparently my situation is not that uncommon so they do ship systems without gluing on the bulkhead for the "caterpillar" tube that runs from the rightside bucket, through the port in the tent, and then into the external reservoir.
These pictures are from their web site.
I wil have to make other changes in my setup. The hoses for the water chiller run in to the back left of the res and the sensors for the pH doser and the Bluelab monitor are in the back right.
My plan was to replace the water chiller hoses because they're 3 ½ years old and pretty stiff. The leads for the Bluelab equipment, they really should go into the external res.
And there's a lot of nutes in those buckets. I have a 32 gallon trash can that I use to mix 26 gallons but I'll need to increase that by about another 10 gallons. "Gonna need a bigger boat!"
OK, it's on me now to pull the trigger.
- Thread starter
- #175
Delps8
Well-Known Member
I was thimking about the lighting situation and the Mars SP3000 lights, the standard light and the R lights, have a similar "characteristic" in that they have good light in the center (I'd need two of the R lights to do a top notch job) but they really fall short at the end of the tent.
In contrast, the Spider 4500 does a great job side to side and end to end.
I got an RMA for the Spider and have decided to kick the can down the road. My grow won't be in flower until mid-October or so, which gives me plenty of time to figure things out.
In contrast, the Spider 4500 does a great job side to side and end to end.
I got an RMA for the Spider and have decided to kick the can down the road. My grow won't be in flower until mid-October or so, which gives me plenty of time to figure things out.
- Thread starter
- #176
Delps8
Well-Known Member
- Thread starter
- #177
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Well, that's a bummer.
I bought a Spider G4500 but sent it back because I wasn't too keen on the spectrum and I decided to trial the Mars SP3000R with my model year 2020 SP3000 to see what the PPFD map was like. That looks to be a good combination because by using the R light, I can create a predominantly red spectrum but the SP3000 will help balance out the uneven PPFD map of the R light.
Yesterday, a grower on another forum asked about a light for a 5' tent and I checked the Vipar web site. I noticed new graphic for the G4500. When I checked the PPFD map, the numbers were off. I have screenshots of the PPFD maps for both the SE4500 and the G4500 and the new PPFD maps were a lot less. Check out the product page on Amazon - the product title reads 430 watts which but the product detail reads 320 watts.
Vipar has dropped the wattage by 25%± and, no surprise, the PPFD has dropped.
I haven't checked to see if the PPFD map for the new light is any more or less even than the older model but…
Decided to check a number and 1175 in the center to 917 on the left is 21%. That's no bueno. The G4500 was at 9%, IIRC.
[time passes]
1397 in the center and 1233 on the left side is 11%.
One of my screenshots was from a reseller
and when I check this light on their web site:
I think @bluter has been repeatedly said that vendors sometimes ship a product that's different than what's advertised. In this case, they've significantly reduced the value of product but haven't reduced the price.
As a businessman, I can understand that decision. For one, the 430 watt light was a very high output light and, frankly, a strange product - the only reason to run a light like that was to either have a very niche perspective on growing (like I do) or to be running CO2. And for that reason, you're spending $$$ on a 430 watt driver when you can spend less on 320 watt driver that will satisfy market demand.
The other reason might be that they had a big inventory of 430 watt drivers so they ran through that inventory and now they're switching to a 320 watt model.
Though I suspect it was the former, I have no idea what brought about the change but, none the less, the new product has a lot lower light output the what was available in the marketplace a few months ago.
My Mars SP3000R arrives Monday and I need to get a grow started in the next few weeks. Time to finish the tent cleanup.
I bought a Spider G4500 but sent it back because I wasn't too keen on the spectrum and I decided to trial the Mars SP3000R with my model year 2020 SP3000 to see what the PPFD map was like. That looks to be a good combination because by using the R light, I can create a predominantly red spectrum but the SP3000 will help balance out the uneven PPFD map of the R light.
Yesterday, a grower on another forum asked about a light for a 5' tent and I checked the Vipar web site. I noticed new graphic for the G4500. When I checked the PPFD map, the numbers were off. I have screenshots of the PPFD maps for both the SE4500 and the G4500 and the new PPFD maps were a lot less. Check out the product page on Amazon - the product title reads 430 watts which but the product detail reads 320 watts.
Vipar has dropped the wattage by 25%± and, no surprise, the PPFD has dropped.
I haven't checked to see if the PPFD map for the new light is any more or less even than the older model but…
Decided to check a number and 1175 in the center to 917 on the left is 21%. That's no bueno. The G4500 was at 9%, IIRC.
[time passes]
1397 in the center and 1233 on the left side is 11%.
One of my screenshots was from a reseller
and when I check this light on their web site:
I think @bluter has been repeatedly said that vendors sometimes ship a product that's different than what's advertised. In this case, they've significantly reduced the value of product but haven't reduced the price.
As a businessman, I can understand that decision. For one, the 430 watt light was a very high output light and, frankly, a strange product - the only reason to run a light like that was to either have a very niche perspective on growing (like I do) or to be running CO2. And for that reason, you're spending $$$ on a 430 watt driver when you can spend less on 320 watt driver that will satisfy market demand.
The other reason might be that they had a big inventory of 430 watt drivers so they ran through that inventory and now they're switching to a 320 watt model.
Though I suspect it was the former, I have no idea what brought about the change but, none the less, the new product has a lot lower light output the what was available in the marketplace a few months ago.
My Mars SP3000R arrives Monday and I need to get a grow started in the next few weeks. Time to finish the tent cleanup.
- Thread starter
- #178
Delps8
Well-Known Member
At the 3 minute mark (±) Bugbee makes his case for growing cannabis at pH 6.0 to 6.5.
Oh, I got the SP3000R yesterday and I don't know that I can make things work.
One issue is that it does not have a dimmer. All of the marketing material, as well as the manual, show it having a dimmer but it's not on the light that I got yesterday. I can work around that by getting an adapter for the AC Infinity Controller 69, which is something I intended to do, but I don't like the idea of not having a manual dimmer.
Below is a photo of the SP3000R in the foreground with the SP3000 in the back. This was a very rough, first pass at configuring the lights and both lights are running at 100% power. Even at that hang height, PPFD was about 800µmol on the top of the res. The amount of light coming from the R light was huge but the problem is that it's a narrow footprint. The obvious answer is to use two lights. I was hoping to be able to balance out the footprint with the SP3000 but, unless I can turn down the R, there's no way I can keep a "safe" hang height.
The light cast from that light is staggering. I've run my Growcraft at full power and it's a bright light. When I plugged the R, it was overpowering. I grabbed my sunglasses from my car and wore them when the light was on. It's incredibly bright and the red cast to the light is almost eerie.
The other approach is to use two R lights, assuming I can dim them. And do I really want to drop another $250± on a light? I'm well into "rapidly diminishing returns" here. One light + my retired SP3000 was OK but adding another R? Dunno.
This will hit a hard stop if I can't use a dimmer. The fact that it doesn't have a dimmer is annoying but I can get the widget I need for $15± and, if that solves the issue, so be it.
On the other hand, my "retired" Growcraft flower light turns out pretty decent numbers even at 18" hang height so I might just follow the path of least resistance.
Oh, I got the SP3000R yesterday and I don't know that I can make things work.
One issue is that it does not have a dimmer. All of the marketing material, as well as the manual, show it having a dimmer but it's not on the light that I got yesterday. I can work around that by getting an adapter for the AC Infinity Controller 69, which is something I intended to do, but I don't like the idea of not having a manual dimmer.
Below is a photo of the SP3000R in the foreground with the SP3000 in the back. This was a very rough, first pass at configuring the lights and both lights are running at 100% power. Even at that hang height, PPFD was about 800µmol on the top of the res. The amount of light coming from the R light was huge but the problem is that it's a narrow footprint. The obvious answer is to use two lights. I was hoping to be able to balance out the footprint with the SP3000 but, unless I can turn down the R, there's no way I can keep a "safe" hang height.
The light cast from that light is staggering. I've run my Growcraft at full power and it's a bright light. When I plugged the R, it was overpowering. I grabbed my sunglasses from my car and wore them when the light was on. It's incredibly bright and the red cast to the light is almost eerie.
The other approach is to use two R lights, assuming I can dim them. And do I really want to drop another $250± on a light? I'm well into "rapidly diminishing returns" here. One light + my retired SP3000 was OK but adding another R? Dunno.
This will hit a hard stop if I can't use a dimmer. The fact that it doesn't have a dimmer is annoying but I can get the widget I need for $15± and, if that solves the issue, so be it.
On the other hand, my "retired" Growcraft flower light turns out pretty decent numbers even at 18" hang height so I might just follow the path of least resistance.
- Thread starter
- #179
Delps8
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how to contact Mars so I'll try this…
A question for @Mars Hydro - all literature that I've seen for the MarsSP3000R light shows that it has a dimmer.
I received my light yesterday and it does not have a dimmer. That's disappointing because I was expecting to have that feature.
If I buy an SP3000R direct from Mars-Hydro, will that light have a dimmer on it?
A question for @Mars Hydro - all literature that I've seen for the MarsSP3000R light shows that it has a dimmer.
I received my light yesterday and it does not have a dimmer. That's disappointing because I was expecting to have that feature.
If I buy an SP3000R direct from Mars-Hydro, will that light have a dimmer on it?
Scottay
Well-Known Member
I have seen some lights where the dimmer is just a screw head and you hafta use like an eyeglass repair screwdriver to do it. I dunno. Hope you get it figured out buddy!! 
