Glookie (V2) - Delps8 Does NASC/Barney's Farm Glookies In DWC Again

[Delps8]

Its not about a "magic elixir" Its about product performance. Yes all the plants need the same nutrients and they are in all the lines and yet some products give better results and I feel that its safe to say that the reason for that is in the science they put into developing their formula and feed schedules/guides. I have witnessed these differences with different product lines. If you are happy with what you are using and the consistency of the results. I see no reason to switch.

I have no doubt that you've seen a difference. My contention is that, in the long term, the differences between the outcomes of the ferts will be sufficiently similar as to be statistically insignificant.

My rationale for making that contention is that cannabis is just another plant, when it comes to ferts. (In Bugbee's words "treat it like it was tomotoes". Growers get excellent results from Hoagland's, right? ) The other issue is that if any manufacturer could prove that their product was superior, they would publish there results. And, it that was the case, I'd certainly take a look at that product and, if the cost/benefit was there, I'd switch.

Again, I have no reason to question what you've observed but I have no reason to think that it came from ferts, assuming that the grows were using a mainstream/decent/widely used/etc. fert in the first place.

The confounder, and this is one reason it would be pointless to take up your "challenge", is that there are so many variables that come into play over the course of a grow that it is, in practical terms, impossible to do a controlled experiment unless you're in a research lab. Understanding that, it's senseless to for me to do another grow and consider it as any sort of comparison. The biggest reason is that I've done my grows using seeds and that, just by itself, invalidates any attempt to compare results.

I feel that your current results are not soley related to the h202.That is my honest opinion and you feel differently. So I will agree to disagree on the matter.

You haven't clearly stated what you're thinking and you haven't offered a rationale as to how you've arrived at that position so there's not a lot for me to work with.

Perhaps the only issue with the nutes was using Bloom nutes and, without a doubt, that won't happen again!

May your next grow/ journal be a phenomenal one no matter what product/products you use.

Thank you. I'll be doing a photoperiod grow in September/October and I'm thinking either Back to the Future or Gorilla Glue/Original Glue. I've done GG autos but the BtF is a scary high THC content so that might be fun to try.

Based on watching your grow, I've entertained the idea of going with a one plant per bucket system and the fallponics system from PA Hydroponics would be my choice. That would get back some floor space but that's a whole different system and I really don't think I want to go through the process of getting the customized setup that I need to fit into my limited available space.

I ordered a sheet of HDPE that @gwhunran recommended and am going to try growing two plants. It'll take some creativity to get them to go vertical but it's save me from having to sweep all of the wasted photons off the top of the res every day.

 

[Delps8]

Harvest is at 60° and gradually drying. Should be another week, I'm thinking.

Big "Ah ha" moment for me were Mitch Westmoreland videos. He uses data from his PhD thesis and the two vids have slightly different content ( one is the "Future Cannabis Project" the other is embedded below)

The big change for me will be to retire my current light and go with the Spider SE4500 or the 500 watt version of the new Growcraft three bar light. I'll provide my thinking in another posting but it has to do with light levels and ambient temps.

But Growcraft is dead to me, right? Yup. I know there are no virgins in the whorehouse so I should have not been surprised. What pissed me off is that I paid quite a bit for my lights and expected them to be there when I needed help. Silly me. Did I mention that I understand who lives in a whorehouse? ;-)

More on that later but, if the numbers from the new 500 watt Growcraft look good, I'll "put on protection" and send them money again.

Added this - yield and quality are a direct result of getting photons on the canopy. The charts below show the % drop in two lights (mine is the top one) as you move from center. Even if the PPFD values were the same in the center, the 2020 Growcraft…can't hold a candle to the Spider. The Spider is 430 watts versus the GC (330) but the Spider is a 2023 design vs the GC which was designed in 2018-2019.

More, later.

 

[Delps8]

Totally off topic…

I did a day trip to Death Valley on Sunday. This was my third or fourth trip and I didn't have a lot of time so it was a lot of driving and not much stopping.

Standing on Dante's View, looking west into the valley and Badwater Basin. The elevation there is about 3000' while that area of the valley floor is below sea level, some of it at -282. The valley hasn't had standing water in it for at least decades but, thanks to the permanent drought in here California, people were canoeing in it over the winter.

From Badwater Basin, looking back at the parking area and toward Dante's View. If you zoom in on the photo, you can see where the footpath leads back to the parking are. There's a small sign in the rock wall. That sign marks Sea Level. Pretty crazy. I walked out on the sand dunes up by Stovepipe Wells and spend time at Zabriskie Point. I didn't get a chance to go to Ubehebe Crater on this trip, unfortunately.

I was camping in Dante's View when a storm hit (15 years ago). The wind tore down my tent, with me in it, but I managed to get down to lower ground safely. Raging torrents in the washes throughout the valley, one flash flood drown someone in their car. But that's what this terrain is like.

If anyone gets a chance to be in the area, head up to Big Pine and head east on 168. When I did that ride (motorcycle) I spotted what turned out to be Deep Springs College, which is off to the south of 168. Read up on it. It's a fascinating story.

Portrait of the Grower (Sort of)

That's a DSLR hanging off my hip, the last vestige of my interest in photography. I started in photography as a young teen but moved away over the years. The camera is a D7100 with their 18-200 zoom. Good camera and great glass but just not for me anymore. Yeh, I'm bald hair free.

 

[Delps8]

Totally off topic…

I did a day trip to Death Valley on Sunday. This was my third or fourth trip and I didn't have a lot of time so it was a lot of driving and not much stopping.

Standing on Dante's View, looking west into the valley and Badwater Basin. The elevation there is about 3000' while that area of the valley floor is below sea level, some of it at -282. The valley hasn't had standing water in it for at least decades but, thanks to the permanent drought in here California, people were canoeing in it over the winter.

From Badwater Basin, looking back at the parking area and toward Dante's View. If you zoom in on the photo, you can see where the footpath leads back to the parking are. There's a small sign in the rock wall. That sign marks Sea Level. Pretty crazy. I walked out on the sand dunes up by Stovepipe Wells and spend time at Zabriskie Point. I didn't get a chance to go to Ubehebe Crater on this trip, unfortunately.

I was camping in Dante's View when a storm hit (15 years ago). The wind tore down my tent, with me in it, but I managed to get down to lower ground safely. Raging torrents in the washes throughout the valley, one flash flood drown someone in their car. But that's what this terrain is like.

If anyone gets a chance to be in the area, head up to Big Pine and head east on 168. When I did that ride (motorcycle) I spotted what turned out to be Deep Springs College, which is off to the south of 168. Read up on it. It's a fascinating story.

Portrait of the Grower (Sort of)

That's a DSLR hanging off my hip, the last vestige of my interest in photography. I started in photography as a young teen but moved away over the years. The camera is a D7100 with their 18-200 zoom. Good camera and great glass but just not for me anymore. Yeh, I'm bald hair free.

Oh, cannabis content.

What a great place to star gaze but, since it's federal land, cannabis is verboten. :-(

 

[Delps8]

Smoke turned out pretty well. The Koolatron is definitely the way to go. The fridge was $200, the dehu $40, and the shelf material was $20(?). You can also use an Inkbird which is about $40. I've gone through a few generations of Controllers so I used a spare C69. It was easy to use - I started at 78% and dropped it about 1% per day. The buds are firm to the touch and have a nice, orangy scent to them.

Below is the RH trace over the 11 days that it was drying. After the chop, I did a bud wash and hung the stems in the garage for about a day and a half that it took to get the Koolatron ready. There were almost no actual colas but I kept as much as I could of the leaves and what few flowers I was able to harvest.

I pulled out 28 gm and trimmed it up. There were some stems in that batch so a guess is that I got 6 ounces of smokable material but very little in the sense of nice looking buds. It's enough to last me quite a while, though. The first time I've smoked in at least a month was to check this batch so I'm not puffing up a storm here. Plus, I'm using an Arizer vape for this stuff. I've still got > ½ pound from 2022 and I roll joints with that but this is much higher quality (and much lower quantity) so I'm going with the vape. Plus the vape is easier on the lungs which helps since one of my other hobbies is long distance running (half marathon).

The garage is quiet! No more fans and pumps and whatnot.

Thinking over the changes to the grow tent and I'm going to make the best use of the 2' x 4' plastic sheet. There's little reason to trim it to fit the res, unless I have to. My thinking is that I may be able to use it for a "table top" for…dunno, a place to put Hugh? I do have two equipment boards and they look really robust. Hugh can sit on one and, perhaps, the heater on the other. I'll figure that out in time for grow 2402 which will kick off in September or October.

PSA - I'm ex-Army and found out that veterans can get a free lifetime pass to National Parks. That's pretty slick. I got mine in the mail today and will be hitting Joshua Tree this weekend.

 

[Ke0ncp]

Nice! That coolatron or whatever it’s called sounds pretty awesome! I happen to have a keg o rator sitting in the garage that I could easily modify to make one! Will have to look more into that!!

Also, I just noticed your DLI chart at the beginning of your grow. WOW you were hitting them with a DLI in the 80’s???

So full power and light close?

Very cool on the lifetime pass!!!

 

[Delps8]

Nice! That coolatron or whatever it’s called sounds pretty awesome! I happen to have a keg o rator sitting in the garage that I could easily modify to make one! Will have to look more into that!!

Also, I just noticed your DLI chart at the beginning of your grow. WOW you were hitting them with a DLI in the 80’s???

So full power and light close?

Very cool on the lifetime pass!!!

Building the Koolatron was time well spent. The yield from my last grow was "modest" (!) so I had no problem with overloading the fridge. I don't recall the estimated capacity - I found the idea on another site and don't remember what those folks were able to get in a fridge like that. It's been humming along just fine against a wall in my office. We had a few warm days (mid-80's) and my office got as high as 83°. That's warm for that fridge but the internal temp only rose from 60 to 63.

Re. DLI - yup. My autos were at 80 for much of the time and my last photo grow was at 1150 for a lot of the grow. I measure light using an Apogee and sample enough spots so that I have a good idea of how much light is hitting the canopy. By mid-flower, I'm sampling the tops of the buds.

Light info from day 90. This grow was, frankly, a bust so I didn't keep PPFD at "max". Also, the 972 is the average but you can see that one bud was at 1082. All in all, they got fed well. I make some mistakes and pooched the grow,

282 watts = 85% with a hang height of 14" or so.

Re. the lifetime pass - yup. Very nice.

 

[Ke0ncp]

That’s great! I’m going to look into that. Can find cheap wine fridges to instead of modifying my commercial grade fridge I made my keg o rater out of.

 

[Delps8]

That’s great! I’m going to look into that. Can find cheap wine fridges to instead of modifying my commercial grade fridge I made my keg o rater out of.

Agree - I wouldn't use anything but commodity products.

The fridge is a standard Koolatron and the dehu is a Pohl Schmitt. I got them both on Amazon but growers were getting the fridge as a scratch and dent models from eBay or Walmart.

Some people are using an Inkbird RH controller but I had a spare AC Infinity controller so I used that. The Inkbird is cheaper ($45) but the AC Infinity reports temperature and RH and I really like their app.

 

[Delps8]

Ordered a Vipar SE4500 today. Over 1200µmol at 16" and only $300± delivered. Wow.

I'll be using the X3 veg and replacing the flower light with the 4500. My approach is to get as much light on the plants as they can use. The great thing about this light is that I should be able to get 1100± on the canopy with a hang height of 18". That will give me the photons I want (max growth) while keeping the canopy temp <=78° (min loss of secondary metabolites).

 

[Delps8]

The yield from this grow is still in the Koolatron which I haven't opened or looked into since I loaded it and started the drying process. Just checked the app for the C69. It's done pretty well holding temperature steady given that we've had some days in the mid-80's and that means my office has been in the mid-80's but the Koolatron has done pretty well.

The big drop in temperature is when we had a power outage. The Koolatron resets to minimum temperature, apparently.

The extreme right side of the graph have been from the last two days. I think it was 90 yesterday and 878 today, so somesuch. Summer in Southern California, yup, it might get warm!

The new light arrived last week and I put the box in the garage, along with the other "new arrivals". I ordered a pair of "equipment racks" for the tent and the plastic slab for the res top is still in the box, too.

AC Infinity has an interesting product. That's a game-changer, eh?

 

[Ke0ncp]

Koolatron

This is a DIY thing right?

AC Infinity has an interesting product. That's a game-changer, eh?

Ok that is awesome!!! I see they are “sold out” did you happen to catch a price on it?

I’m excited to see how your Koolatron does.

 

[Madddogg]

Good read. I like the idea of having a drain on the reservoir.

My reservoirs are doubled up 17 gallon plastic totes and they're pretty heavy when full.
I have a deepsink nearby, so I use a little electric fountain pump with a hose connected to it, long enough to reach the deep sink with a little slack built in. I just drop the pump in the reservoir with the hose connected and the other end running into the deep sink, and plug it in. It drains in about 10 minutes. I then drop the water hose into the reservoir and turn in on. I proceed to add my General Hydroponics nutes, PH down, CalMag+, and KoolBloom in flower. I get it done before the water reaches the full line. I just top up the res with tap water between changes. No sensors used in the res.

Colombian Gold. Last strain harvested under mentioned flood and drain hydro set up with 17 gallon reservoir.

That’s how I drain my totes as well.When drained I just put the pump in my nute reservoir and the hose end into my tote to refill with fresh nutes. Been using that system for over 5 years now

 

[Delps8]

This is a DIY thing right?

Ok that is awesome!!! I see they are “sold out” did you happen to catch a price on it?

I’m excited to see how your Koolatron does.

The Koolatron is doing fine. Today is another warm one we hit (90) and the temp rose from 58 to 61 over the course of the day. The Koolatron is has a little Peltier device in it, with its own thermometer. I don't recall how close it is to the sensor for the AC Infinity Controller 69 but it's within a couple of degrees and that's good enough for me.

The "plans" for putting together the Koolatron are from a thread on another website. A quick Google of "Koolatron cannabis dryer" results in hits on two other sites, one with a name consisting of two strings, the other is has the letters…all rolled up in one string. I'm a member of both but followed the thread on the latter one.

In response to your posting, I pulled some of the cannabis from the fridge. Just over ½ ounce. There aren't a lot of buds ("modest harvest", no doubt!) but, unlike my other crops, this weed has a nice citrusy scent even though it's 3 or 4 months from harvest. There's only a couple of small buds and they're in pretty good shape. I think you can put one together for about $300 which is $200± for the fridge + $60± for the Inkbird, and $40 for the little dehumidifier. Oh, you'll want to get some netting to put the shelves so that could run another $20. All in all, it's a lot cheaper than the Cannatrol and I have no complaints at all.

The pisser is I don't use cannabis anymore. I've "put down the bong", so to speak, because I've decided to focus on running and I've found cannabis really trashes my REM sleep. Sleep is incredibly important for recovery and even more so for me since I started running late in life—I took it up again about 18 months ago. I'll be 68 years old in a couple of months and I've been running half marathons and just updated my training schedule to include a full marathon in October of 2025. My SoCal native former fiancee now roommate or whatever is in the same situation. She's 72 and had a brush with breast cancer so she's been rethinking things. Each to their own, eh?

So it's funny that I'm buying a new light and making a new res top while toying with the idea of getting a whole different grow set up (PA Hydro). Like Steve Jobs said, "The journey is the reward."

The Terrafomer — wicked name! Someone has a sense of humor at AC Infnity.

IIRC, it was priced at $660. I've got a Whynter 14k BTU "portable" AC unit (80-something pounds) that I bought a few years back when an "80" autoflower grow ended up at 110 days. I bought it because the only way to keep the plants cool was to cool the whole friggin' garage. 20 x 20 garage on SoCal in June! It ran at 1200+ watts for a few weeks but it managed to keep the tent cool as well as a pretty big chunk of the garage.

The Terraformer is only 8k BTU but it does it the smart way. I'm on the fence. Seeing that I'm not really consuming cannabis and I don't grow in the summer anymore, the Terraformer would allow me to set VPD very accurately but I've put a lot of time into buying and setting up equipment to do that already so I'm thinking that the extra cost and hassle will be just a slight increase in quantity and/or quality.

My reason for buying the Vipar is to be able to get at least 1kµmol on my canopy in flower while maintaining temps <=78° in flower. The Vipar will generate 1250± at 16" so my thinking is that I'll be able to achieve the temp + PPFD goals just by replacing the Growcraft with the Vipar. With the Terraformer, I can do that by just adjusting the settings but I suspect it's pretty easily achievable by using the same processes that I've been using for a few years.

Those are my, admittedly lengthy, thoughts about the Terrformer. What about you? It's not a whimsical purchase, either dollar wise or process wise. How would you use it in your grow environment?

 

[Delps8]

That’s how I drain my totes as well.When drained I just put the pump in my nute reservoir and the hose end into my tote to refill with fresh nutes. Been using that system for over 5 years now

That sounds really nice.

Can't do that where I am. There are no basements in this part of CA and I live in a town that was incorporated in 1976 so everything is new and new homes are built on slabs. There's no need for a drain in the garages around here because this house is the only one in the development that has a hose outlet in the garage. This is a weird place.

 

[Delps8]

This is a DIY thing right?

Ok that is awesome!!! I see they are “sold out” did you happen to catch a price on it?

I’m excited to see how your Koolatron does.

I didn't want to post this on your grow journal but why are you giving your plants so little light? 26mol is good for early veg but your grow should be at about double that level.

I looked over your plants and there's nothing that I could see that would indicate that they're getting too much light. Looking at their morphology, they have the classic signs of plants that aren't getting enough light. Plants that aren't getting enough light have to stretch and they have slender stalks and a limited number of large leaves. Plants that are getting adequate light don't stretch. Instead, they grow lots of lateral branches and grow lots of small leaves.

Cannabis will grow, in ambient CO2, at well over 1000µmol. This photo grow was averaging almost 1k — you saw the numbers, right?

 

[Ke0ncp]

I didn't want to post this on your grow journal but why are you giving your plants so little light? 26mol is good for early veg but your grow should be at about double that level.

I looked over your plants and there's nothing that I could see that would indicate that they're getting too much light. Looking at their morphology, they have the classic signs of plants that aren't getting enough light. Plants that aren't getting enough light have to stretch and they have slender stalks and a limited number of large leaves. Plants that are getting adequate light don't stretch. Instead, they grow lots of lateral branches and grow lots of small leaves.

Cannabis will grow, in ambient CO2, at well over 1000µmol. This photo grow was averaging almost 1k — you saw the numbers, right?

I had them at around 60 dli by mistake and they started taking a turn for the worse again.

This grow has been a MESS since mid veg, they were looking nice and healthy previous to that.

I need to get their media back in order before I can hit them hard with lights again. No sense in trying to maximize their light intake if the nute uptake is messed up. This will just lead to more issues, or am I missing something.

Agreed though, and maybe not on this current grow, my plan was to maximize the DLI weekly right to the point of needed C02 through the entire grow. This will continue to be my goal as the proof is in the pudding!

 

[Ke0ncp]

Those are my, admittedly lengthy, thoughts about the Terrformer. What about you? It's not a whimsical purchase, either dollar wise or process wise. How would you use it in your grow environment?

Ouch that’s a bit spendy for an item that combines things that can be bought separately for cheaper.

It would be nice to have the AC element for summer grows. It does look like it is very versatile as far as different configurations for tent pressure and all of that. I don’t really see the value in it at that price point considering I already have all of those separate components.

 

[Delps8]

I had them at around 60 dli by mistake and they started taking a turn for the worse again.

This grow has been a MESS since mid veg, they were looking nice and healthy previous to that.

I need to get their media back in order before I can hit them hard with lights again. No sense in trying to maximize their light intake if the nute uptake is messed up. This will just lead to more issues, or am I missing something.

Agreed though, and maybe not on this current grow, my plan was to maximize the DLI weekly right to the point of needed C02 through the entire grow. This will continue to be my goal as the proof is in the pudding!

I don't agree with the perspective of reducing light to a plant that is not showing signs of light stress. Photosynthesis is an ongoing process and it's the only way plant can make glucose that they need for respiration. When you reduce light, you reduce the plants' ability to make food. I don't understand why that's considered a valid approach.

The nutrient issue looks to be improving, fortunately. Things were looking a little rough for a while.

 

[Ke0ncp]

I don't agree with the perspective of reducing light to a plant that is not showing signs of light stress. Photosynthesis is an ongoing process and it's the only way plant can make glucose that they need for respiration. When you reduce light, you reduce the plants' ability to make food. I don't understand why that's considered a valid approach.

The nutrient issue looks to be improving, fortunately. Things were looking a little rough for a while.

I will have to do some reading on this. I see your point and it makes sense to me for sure. But I also see the point that I made previously. So leaves me in a spot where I don’t know what direction to go. LOL

I love these forums! So many knowledgeable and willing people! I’m not sure I would have made it past my first grow had I not found them!

I’m hoping the nutrient/ph issues are fixed! Time will tell!