Gator's Cage

Is a vertical setup "wasted" on shorter plants, or do you think this style of 12/12 short perimeter grow would benefit as much as just letting the plants grow out?
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A vert grow needs a blueprinted plan; shoulder width and lit height needs rule.
I can see high-density plants rooted under flat-panel lights timed at 12s, covering the entire lit area. Point-source lights' best use is vert. Over-vegged in a vert array is less regressive than flat, but extended bare stems are useless. Every light and light system has a sweet-spot, a 3D area. Your comparison grows should have(IMO) five plants, with fan(s) blowing down from out of the way. Five fatties LST'd flat vs four tall in a vert tent's corners with a week or two veg would be fair, IMO.
If you can handle the plant-count, flat SOG under high-flux LED may yield 14 or 20 half-ounce donks, varying with the strain. ie GWS yields 20 - 30% more than PX for me, but gross weight isn't the whole story. The trick to maxing yield is to fill the sweet-spot of whatever light, with buds. When the stretch is done, it's all about trichomes. Light-starve the fans and hit them with a Fiskar fist: they power root, stem, and seed-production. My vert plants are done with all that by 4 weeks. At two weeks, I don't want any more roots - got plenty for coir/hydro. I buy, not grow seeds. Enough is enough stem, more is too much.

That box should be used outside a window for kitchen herbs or table flowers :peace:
 
EVO-RAT-93 said:
Hello Gator,new here.Just registered today.Been coming here for a while to read.Started reading your journal from the begining this week end,finished this morning.Very good reading,I read all 685 post. :reading420magazine::thankyou:
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First post on my thread/journal? You honor me, E-R. Welcome to 420 Magazine

If you grow with methods you see here, they are then your methods;
I will likely have changed something in my garden - moving on ;)

Attacking mythology and bullshit sales hype is a goal here, with lively discourse.
I try to be polite on other people's journals, but this is the 'Cage'. Truth rules
You read it all? Dayum :ganjamon:
 
That box should be used outside a window for kitchen herbs or table flowers
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:rofl:

The trick to maxing yield is to fill the sweet-spot of whatever light, with buds. When the stretch is done, it's all about trichomes. Light-starve the fans and hit them with a Fiskar fist: they power root, stem, and seed-production. My vert plants are done with all that by 4 weeks. At two weeks, I don't want any more roots - got plenty for coir/hydro. I buy, not grow seeds. Enough is enough stem, more is too much.
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My plants are at 23 days 12/12. So in your opinion, I should start getting over my love of vibrant fan leaves and start sharpening my fiskars?

What about those skinnier stems with small buds that want to grow in the back? Is it get them light or get them gone?
 
go green said:
What's your fav strain PG?

-Go
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Not the PX I grow :rofl: PX stones hard, and is prized by my friends, but...
I prefer to smoke indica doms. Greases my old joints and quiets the beast in my head.
I still have some Reserva Privada Pure Pakistani #18. This, I prefer to smoke.
My next seed order will include Tora Bora, with high hopes ;)
 
Propa Gator said:
A vert grow needs a blueprinted plan; shoulder width and lit height needs rule.
I can see high-density plants rooted under flat-panel lights timed at 12s, covering the entire lit area. Point-source lights' best use is vert. Over-vegged in a vert array is less regressive than flat, but extended bare stems are useless. Every light and light system has a sweet-spot, a 3D area. Your comparison grows should have(IMO) five plants, with fan(s) blowing down from out of the way. Five fatties LST'd flat vs four tall in a vert tent's corners with a week or two veg would be fair, IMO.
If you can handle the plant-count, flat SOG under high-flux LED may yield 14 or 20 half-ounce donks, varying with the strain. ie GWS yields 20 - 30% more than PX for me, but gross weight isn't the whole story. The trick to maxing yield is to fill the sweet-spot of whatever light, with buds. When the stretch is done, it's all about trichomes. Light-starve the fans and hit them with a Fiskar fist: they power root, stem, and seed-production. My vert plants are done with all that by 4 weeks. At two weeks, I don't want any more roots - got plenty for coir/hydro. I buy, not grow seeds. Enough is enough stem, more is too much.
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I'm not following well, even with head turned sideways ;)

The way I've been thinking of doing the CMH/HPS vertical comparison is to set each tent up exactly the same and use a CMH vertical bare bulb in one and a bare vertical HPS in the other.

This experiment isolates the bulbs as the major variable, so it addresses that controversy.

I think you're suggesting pitting the vertical CMH against a horizontal HPS in a hood, which would compare vert vs flat, but if I use different types of bulbs, it really doesn't isolate the grow style, and it also doesn't isolate the bulbs as they are being deployed differently, and so no direct bulb comparison would be valid.

If comparing vert vs flat, I think using a vertical CMH vs a horizontal CMH would be more useful as regards absolute data.

watcha think?

also, I'm assuming the fans blowing down and out of the way are suggested for the flat grow, right? How come? I'm sorta liking them blowing up towards the light even though they do take up some real estate right in the center of the sweet spot.


That box should be used outside a window for kitchen herbs or table flowers :peace:
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:)
 
Mr Sun, my friend. The post you quoted is impossible to understand without smoking Pakistani herb. At least I couldn't when I awoke from the dead as induced by that very same herba cide.

One hit, and I can walk like a man
Two times, I may still stand
Three or four equals one stoned boor

As to flat grow lights, the center is prime. Small fans hung on the tent poles, to blow down and around could roil the air good enough. Under a bare vert bulb, there's nothing else.
But I was wrong...

You've evolved a growers style to find the middle ground between productivity and living a life. You don't seem to give up much of either for the other, but you've tried many ways from which to learn. I don't recall seeing you make the same mistake twice.
My thought of the prime, center area under a flat light is good only in my head. The reality of too many crowded plants is definately not good. The space I see in your photos is prolly not enough for a fifth of the same.
My problem with flat grows is only about HID bulbs. I think that a hood with tempered glass is a horrible parasitic complication, and doesn't allow the bulb to shine.
LED arrays are for flat, preferably SOGgy grows but... That Spectra 300 seems to have a deep field of effectiveness.

If you're considering running two HID tents, you must need to give that light back. If I owned it, I would run it flat-out in my meter tent ;)
CMH v HPS would be excellent. I should do it too. I'll need to buy a high-dollar 250 HPS. I guess super blue Hor de lux is the most highly regarded? What's up with Ushio? I can be flowering in a month.
 
Looking lovely, mate!

Wish I had more space to give this a shot, but perhaps come the New Year and a move to a house I can do so. Wanted to string up my 125 CFLs so they light from the centre and have the 400w HPS light from above :)

As the 400w is in a cool tube, unless I can find a way to remove the internal reflector I can't dangle it downwards, and as tent is only a wee DR80 I think it'd get too hot without the airflow over it.
 
Propa Gator said:
Mr Sun, my friend. The post you quoted is impossible to understand without smoking Pakistani herb. At least I couldn't when I awoke from the dead as induced by that very same herba cide.
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OK, I shoulda burned one first, lol.


As to flat grow lights, the center is prime. Small fans hung on the tent poles, to blow down and around could roil the air good enough. Under a bare vert bulb, there's nothing else.
But I was wrong...

You've evolved a growers style to find the middle ground between productivity and living a life. You don't seem to give up much of either for the other, but you've tried many ways from which to learn. I don't recall seeing you make the same mistake twice.
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I'm indulging the luxury of growing for the love of it simply because I'm working full-time so growing is not currently a significant source of income.

I can fart around and do what I love to do, which is experimenting with grow gear. Growing weed is just a consequence of that, albeit an extremely good one ;).

Experimenting and production being completely at odds, I want to have my fun before financial considerations cast their pall on my grow room.

Can't do both, because neither will respond to a mono-buttocked approach, so something's gonna give and I'm very ambivalent about it. Having fun is a priority.


My thought of the prime, center area under a flat light is good only in my head. The reality of too many crowded plants is definately not good. The space I see in your photos is prolly not enough for a fifth of the same.
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There's enough space to stuff another one in the middle, but my RH is marginal much of the time, so might not be good to get things too thick in there, especially without having that fan down there keeping things fresh.

Yield might actually go up with 3 plants instead of 4, which is another thing I'd like to play around with while I have the opportunity.

My problem with flat grows is only about HID bulbs. I think that a hood with tempered glass is a horrible parasitic complication, and doesn't allow the bulb to shine.
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I agree, and I can run 250w sans glass, but not 400w. I would be interesting to compare 250w open hood vs 400w with glass and see if all the complication is worth it or not.

LED arrays are for flat, preferably SOGgy grows but... That Spectra 300 seems to have a deep field of effectiveness.
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It sure seems to. Every time I look at that light, it seems like I'm running it too high, but I know from my previous grow with bleached buds that I'm not. The intensity,penetration and coverage in my DR80 is excellent.

If you're considering running two HID tents, you must need to give that light back. If I owned it, I would run it flat-out in my meter tent ;)
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Nope, it was donated by GLH and I get to keep it, but I'm in a position right now where I may be able to help bust some myths, and if it's not an LED-associated myth I'm interested in helping to bust, it won't be casting its purple glow for a bit.

I have a third DR80 still in the box, so once I figure out where it's going to go, I may set the LED up in there. Out of curiosity, I'd love to do a complete run with that Tek Four also, so I've got enough gear and ideas to keep me going for a while, at least until the tyranny of production narrows my choices along with my fun.



CMH v HPS would be excellent. I should do it too. I'll need to buy a high-dollar 250 HPS. I guess super blue Hor de lux is the most highly regarded? What's up with Ushio? I can be flowering in a month.
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The Hortilux Blue is a metal halide bulb that supposedly vegges like nothing else. For over $100, it better do something good. The Hortilux Super HPS is the popular bulb many use and is probably what you'd want to go with if you're going with a Hortilux bulb.


The Ushio HPS bulbs are a newer kid on the block, extremely good quality, and competitive in price with the Hortilux HPS. Both great bulbs.

I just ordered my 250w CMH vertical bulb today.

Would be fun if you run the same show and we started at roughly the same time ;).


p.s. your teenage ladies are looking scrumptious ;)
 
Thanks gents, for your concern. I had domestic turmoil: my 'free' cable stopped with the analog, forcing me to do something. My new small LED set is such an upgrade from the huge tube I gave away, I dove into my main problem: clutter! Small space with too much happy horse shit. Not quite "Hoarders", but still crippling. If it wasn't my shit, I could have D&C'd the cage in half day, but...

My only :smokin2: current bloom does well @25 days. Seedlings and moms do well enough, but need more reliable attention.
In this top shot, the hole in the middle is smaller than the picture shows:
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The mainstem is now gaining a little over the side branches as they should. I've not trimmed anything yet, nor have I rigged any to straighten up. They are leaning in a lot, now. One hope to die fan finger actually touched the bottom of the bulb, off & on with the fans' breeze.
Tough, stinking bitches:kiss: with plenty bling bling!
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They'll be done in three weeks.
 
Welcome back.

Love starting my morning with some fresh vertical pics. :thanks:

Are you putting the light right down into the center mass or keeping it near the tops?

They'll be done in three weeks.
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That's only 7 weeks total. Is PE a fast finishing strain or is there some truth to the rumor that CMH bulbs finish sooner? My girls are a week ahead and I was figuring on 3 to 4 more weeks. :hmmmm:
 
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