Id love to see the 'dark test'. One of the breeders I have beans from recomends 48 hr dark to increase trics and resin so it would be an interesting article to read.
Fuzzy & the Hempy Bucket - Chrystal F1 Hybrid
- Thread starter Fuzzy Duck
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Id love to see the 'dark test'. One of the breeders I have beans from recomends 48 hr dark to increase trics and resin so it would be an interesting article to read.
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- #42
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
DLR i've used started with 11 On, 13 Off & reduce by 30 mins every 2 weeks...
I've not really noticed much difference in yield between DLR or 12/12 tho apart from better ripening of trichomes under DLR & a cheaper electric bill
Even tho i have used 36 to 48 hours of darkness before harvesting... i don't think it really adds any extra trichomes to the bud ?
But i was under the impression that light degrades the THC content of the trichomes hence up to 48 hours of darkness is used to maintain peak THC content of the end result or so i'm lead to believe at present.
At the end of the day if ya left a nug on the table for a few days does it still give you as much of high as a nug stored in a dark place when smoked !
Oh ye a thought come across my mind is that the difference between soil & hempy plants is a possible phenotype occurrence displaying sativa type leafs on the soil plants and indica type leafs on the hempy girls... some thing to ponder over the next several weeks
I've not really noticed much difference in yield between DLR or 12/12 tho apart from better ripening of trichomes under DLR & a cheaper electric bill
Even tho i have used 36 to 48 hours of darkness before harvesting... i don't think it really adds any extra trichomes to the bud ?
But i was under the impression that light degrades the THC content of the trichomes hence up to 48 hours of darkness is used to maintain peak THC content of the end result or so i'm lead to believe at present.
At the end of the day if ya left a nug on the table for a few days does it still give you as much of high as a nug stored in a dark place when smoked !
Oh ye a thought come across my mind is that the difference between soil & hempy plants is a possible phenotype occurrence displaying sativa type leafs on the soil plants and indica type leafs on the hempy girls... some thing to ponder over the next several weeks
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- #44
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
I agree phenotypes adds interest
I should of really made a cutting or 2 for future reference , how ever i do have 1 fem mother plant displaying the sativa type leaf for a few clones in the near future & may have a go at DWC with the strain
Plants grown from seed do produce much more growth vigor than clones from my own experience and at present the girls are averaging an 1 inch to 2 inch of growth a day since the light flip to 12/12...
I'm really quite surprised myself on how well they are doing in the hempy buckets as its my first time using an inert growing medium & hydro style nutrients as i've been mainly soil organic for the last couple of years !
I'm currently watering/feed the hempys every 2 or 3 days with 5 litres of mix each bucket this aprox gives 30% to 50% run off depending on length of time between watering etc at the moment.
I don't bother with measuring run off by the way or even checked PPM as of yet !
Presently just use PH corrected nutrient feed/water & gain suitable run off to maintain balance in the hempys... & may include just plain old PH corrected water every other feed/water to micro manage any nutrient salt build ups in the inert growing medium which i have not tryed yet but toying with the idea.
I should of really made a cutting or 2 for future reference , how ever i do have 1 fem mother plant displaying the sativa type leaf for a few clones in the near future & may have a go at DWC with the strain
Plants grown from seed do produce much more growth vigor than clones from my own experience and at present the girls are averaging an 1 inch to 2 inch of growth a day since the light flip to 12/12...
I'm really quite surprised myself on how well they are doing in the hempy buckets as its my first time using an inert growing medium & hydro style nutrients as i've been mainly soil organic for the last couple of years !
I'm currently watering/feed the hempys every 2 or 3 days with 5 litres of mix each bucket this aprox gives 30% to 50% run off depending on length of time between watering etc at the moment.
I don't bother with measuring run off by the way or even checked PPM as of yet !
Presently just use PH corrected nutrient feed/water & gain suitable run off to maintain balance in the hempys... & may include just plain old PH corrected water every other feed/water to micro manage any nutrient salt build ups in the inert growing medium which i have not tryed yet but toying with the idea.
The light degrading THC thing does make sense. Im not 100% convinced th dark period is super advantagious, I think its probably along the same lines as the cut right before lights on approach.One of those things that in theory makes sense, but probably like >1% benifit.
It is funny how little things can become 'truths' over time. For 15 years I smoked 'regular' weed that came in baggies and I kept thm in baggies. Now plastic baggies are considered almost harmful.
It is funny how little things can become 'truths' over time. For 15 years I smoked 'regular' weed that came in baggies and I kept thm in baggies. Now plastic baggies are considered almost harmful.
Wow sorry for the late arrival. How did I miss this. Subbed and perched on the proverbial edge of my seat. Have to read up whats gone on so far properly tomoz. But cant wait.
spot on spimp, harvesting just before the lights are due to come on is the best time to harvest,
here is the first bit of info, im trying to find the scientific study where they sent off the 3 samples, cant post links to this info for obvious reasons so i copy n paste, sorry for the long post fuzzy
I decided to harvest three identical plants, all grown in the same room, at different times throughout the room's light cycle. The first plant was harvested right before the light cycle occurred. The second was harvested right after the light cycle finished. The final plant was moved to a completely dark, temperature and humidity controlled room where it sat for 48 hours and was then harvested.
There was no noticeable difference in cannabinoid potency. We tested three samples from each plant and averaged the results of each plant to compare to one another. The results were virtually identical. There was no difference in potency in relation to the time at which the plants were harvested. Since machines are not always accurate, we also provided a few patients with blind samples to see if they noticed any differences in the samples. No differences were noted.
It is true that resin production on a medical marijuana plant peaks during the dark cycle. Because of this fact, there has been a myth perpetuated that cannabis harvested right before the light cycle begins – or cannabis given 24-72 hours of dark before harvesting – will produce a higher potency medicine than medical cannabis harvested during the light cycle. The problem with this theory is that a typical medical marijuana plant has a blooming period of about 50-60 days. When the overall time of the blooming cycle is taken into consideration, an additional day or two is pretty insignificant. The essential oils and resins are not produced overnight but instead are steadily built up over the entire blooming process. The number of cannabinoids degraded in one light cycle is completely negligible when comparing potency of the final product.
I tend to harvest my medical marijuana plants right before the light cycle begins, but this has always been a matter of convenience over anything else. It allows me to harvest and remove one crop and then bring in the next crop right at the beginning of the light cycle. This gives my next crop twelve hours under the blooming lights to better establish themselves before their flowering period begins (12 hours of darkness). My plants seem to transition better from vegetative to blooming if I start with the light cycle instead of immediately placing them in the dark cycle.
Harvesting during the light or dark cycle should be determined by personal preference and convenience. Growers should not get hung up on harvesting at a particular time in the light cycle. Plants harvested when they are ripe will be potent regardless of the time of day they are cut down.
here is the first bit of info, im trying to find the scientific study where they sent off the 3 samples, cant post links to this info for obvious reasons so i copy n paste, sorry for the long post fuzzy
I decided to harvest three identical plants, all grown in the same room, at different times throughout the room's light cycle. The first plant was harvested right before the light cycle occurred. The second was harvested right after the light cycle finished. The final plant was moved to a completely dark, temperature and humidity controlled room where it sat for 48 hours and was then harvested.
There was no noticeable difference in cannabinoid potency. We tested three samples from each plant and averaged the results of each plant to compare to one another. The results were virtually identical. There was no difference in potency in relation to the time at which the plants were harvested. Since machines are not always accurate, we also provided a few patients with blind samples to see if they noticed any differences in the samples. No differences were noted.
It is true that resin production on a medical marijuana plant peaks during the dark cycle. Because of this fact, there has been a myth perpetuated that cannabis harvested right before the light cycle begins – or cannabis given 24-72 hours of dark before harvesting – will produce a higher potency medicine than medical cannabis harvested during the light cycle. The problem with this theory is that a typical medical marijuana plant has a blooming period of about 50-60 days. When the overall time of the blooming cycle is taken into consideration, an additional day or two is pretty insignificant. The essential oils and resins are not produced overnight but instead are steadily built up over the entire blooming process. The number of cannabinoids degraded in one light cycle is completely negligible when comparing potency of the final product.
I tend to harvest my medical marijuana plants right before the light cycle begins, but this has always been a matter of convenience over anything else. It allows me to harvest and remove one crop and then bring in the next crop right at the beginning of the light cycle. This gives my next crop twelve hours under the blooming lights to better establish themselves before their flowering period begins (12 hours of darkness). My plants seem to transition better from vegetative to blooming if I start with the light cycle instead of immediately placing them in the dark cycle.
Harvesting during the light or dark cycle should be determined by personal preference and convenience. Growers should not get hung up on harvesting at a particular time in the light cycle. Plants harvested when they are ripe will be potent regardless of the time of day they are cut down.
this pdf may help some of your increase trich production, the cutting the leaves in half seems to be a good option, i had a plant that had a cal/mag problem and most of the leaves got damaged at the ends, the plant then looked like it was producing more trichs, could just be that it was because i sorted the cal mag problem but i found this link on our site so should be ok to post,
https://cannabis-science.com/papers/Chemical Ecology of Cannabis.pdf
https://cannabis-science.com/papers/Chemical Ecology of Cannabis.pdf
im still looking for the scientific study on this dark period where it showed the test results of the 3 samples sent to the labs,
from what i remember the only difference they found over their testing was that harvesting the plants before the lights are due to come on makes the buds and leaves have less starch in them, say your on 12-12 and last days before harvest, if you harvest after the lights have been on for 12 hours then the starch levels are high in the leaves and buds, but if you chop the plant just before its 12 hour of light period starts then starch levels are very low,
the reason for this is during the day the plant stores energy and nutrients in its leaves, then when the lights go off the stored energy and nurtients are sent back down to the roots to aid with root production and to aid in repairing damaged part of the plants, when we flip to 12-12 from veg the plants go into a stretch phase, they go into this stretch phase as their looking for the light just the same as having a plant growing in the shade, the lower branches or plants in the shade will stretch like crazy to get back into the light, so going from 24-0 to 12-12 produces lots of stretch when flipped to 12-12 when compared with 18-6,
under 24-0 the plants still carry out their night time tasks but do this while the lights are on which means your just wasting energy, some growers who use 24-0 will notice their plants look droopy at certain points during the 24 hour period, this is when the plant is doing its best to focus energy on growing roots and repairing damage, its also why plants under 24-0 grow at a slower upward rate, less stretch and more bushy but you tend to have to veg plants longer to get to the size you want before flipping to 12-12,
so harvesting just before the lights are due to come on means all the nutrients that was stored in the plant during the lights on hours are sent back down to the roots for that part of the growth, even with a flush before harvest their will be starch present so harvesting before lights come on means less starch in the plant, i can see the 48 hour darkness giving similar results with the starch been reduced at harvest compared with harvesting at the end of the lights on period,
im trying to find the study i read a while back, if i find it ill copy n paste the info or if i can post the link then ill do that or do it via pm if and when i find it
from what i remember the only difference they found over their testing was that harvesting the plants before the lights are due to come on makes the buds and leaves have less starch in them, say your on 12-12 and last days before harvest, if you harvest after the lights have been on for 12 hours then the starch levels are high in the leaves and buds, but if you chop the plant just before its 12 hour of light period starts then starch levels are very low,
the reason for this is during the day the plant stores energy and nutrients in its leaves, then when the lights go off the stored energy and nurtients are sent back down to the roots to aid with root production and to aid in repairing damaged part of the plants, when we flip to 12-12 from veg the plants go into a stretch phase, they go into this stretch phase as their looking for the light just the same as having a plant growing in the shade, the lower branches or plants in the shade will stretch like crazy to get back into the light, so going from 24-0 to 12-12 produces lots of stretch when flipped to 12-12 when compared with 18-6,
under 24-0 the plants still carry out their night time tasks but do this while the lights are on which means your just wasting energy, some growers who use 24-0 will notice their plants look droopy at certain points during the 24 hour period, this is when the plant is doing its best to focus energy on growing roots and repairing damage, its also why plants under 24-0 grow at a slower upward rate, less stretch and more bushy but you tend to have to veg plants longer to get to the size you want before flipping to 12-12,
so harvesting just before the lights are due to come on means all the nutrients that was stored in the plant during the lights on hours are sent back down to the roots for that part of the growth, even with a flush before harvest their will be starch present so harvesting before lights come on means less starch in the plant, i can see the 48 hour darkness giving similar results with the starch been reduced at harvest compared with harvesting at the end of the lights on period,
im trying to find the study i read a while back, if i find it ill copy n paste the info or if i can post the link then ill do that or do it via pm if and when i find it
Wow that was a read! I need to head to the pet store for a UVB light and I may experiment with leaving a few good size fans to poke with a needle late in flower to simulate a bug attack to see if it will produce any more trichs......good info thanks donpaul.p!
Very interesting. I read the whole pdf and Ive found another that closely echoes that report. It does have some stuff to say about modern tricks about increasing potency. Ill PM it to ya.
danklover79
New Member
Thank you very much for that link dp, very informative article, I wonder if they have any findings since it was published, since some of the studies lacked definitive conclusions.
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- #54
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
The PDF was an interesting read along with the last couple of your replies Donpaul
So at the end of day it doesn't really make much difference when we harvest as for peak THC content but mildly leans towards after a period of darkness...
I've also read about the the starch/sugar content of the plant before lights on & before they go off !
I didn't think of it as of much, in till now... & wonder if harvesting the plant when starch/sugar level is low or high has an effect on over all taste of the cured bud or length of curing ?
So at the end of day it doesn't really make much difference when we harvest as for peak THC content but mildly leans towards after a period of darkness...
I've also read about the the starch/sugar content of the plant before lights on & before they go off !
I didn't think of it as of much, in till now... & wonder if harvesting the plant when starch/sugar level is low or high has an effect on over all taste of the cured bud or length of curing ?
Heres another thought I had regarding dark/light chop times.
When you cut a plant, I cant believe it instantly stops all processes. I would wonder if a dark drying area allows any more maturation of trics?
BTW, Good Weed Fuzzy duck.
When you cut a plant, I cant believe it instantly stops all processes. I would wonder if a dark drying area allows any more maturation of trics?
BTW, Good Weed Fuzzy duck.
yep, when you harvest a plant the buds and trichs still mature for a couple of days, you can harvets at 100% cloudy and a few days after harvest you will be at 10% amber, i know this happens as ive seen it on a few of my plants, so they still mature after harvest,
but im thinking the trichs mature after harvest because the plant is no longer getting water, this may help mature the trichs after harvest,
but they do mature to some extent after harvest, ive had seeds that was green at harvest but then when buds was dry they was bigger and a nice brown color, so after harvest the plant still matures while its full of moisture, once its started to dry the process stops, i think its down to the plant drying out that causes the trichs and seeds to mature at a faster rate for a day or 2,
the pdf and other info is an interesting read, the more of us that grow then the more info their will be coming out, im sure as it becomes more legal to grow then we will have some amazing new data and some new ideas to try. the insect attack experiment was done with a type of shrub that released this homrone and in the tests the plants nearest the shrub that was attacked had increased growth and higher levels, ill try and find that info as well, problem is its not a shrub that grows in the UK so no good to me, but if i could get hold of some then id grow a small pot of it in the corner of the grow room then attack it by shredding leaves like an insect would so it releases the hormones,
@fuzzy, the starch/sugar info is one of those that i think the difference would only be slight or it would show up more if the product was processed for oil, i think if their was a major difference then we would all know about it, so i guess for the perfectionist then you would harvest when starch was at its lowest so just before lights come on, im thinking the starch is sent back to the roots during the dark period so it helps with root development, so im guessing removing the starch has more of a benefit than leaving the starch in. it may affect the cure process but im no scietist so cant comment on how the starch would affect the cure.
now for trich production, the only info that i have come across that seems reliable on increasing trich production is by having very low humidity during flowering, again its not been tested enough to prove either way but it does tend to say lower humidity increases trich production, so the trichs must be protecting the plant from the sun so uv and lower humidity may increase trichs, but to even begin to test this idea you would need to grow the same strain for a good many grows so you know exactly how it grows and how it produces, then you would need a way of testing the end results, what we need is our own lab and all the testing equipment then we can prove either way what works and what dont
one of the things we know works is letting the thc turn into cbn, when a plant is 100% cloudy thc is at its peak, so for peak thc of that strain you want to harvest when its slightly below 100% cloudy so after a couple of days of drying it should be around 100% thc, but a lot of growers want a more couch lock affect so we let the trichs turn amber with is when the thc is degrading and its turning into cbn which gives is the couch lock affect, now when i grow indicas i like to harvets at around 20 to 40%amber, but a good indica strain is always going to give you a couch lock affect so the difference is only slight, ive sampled my buds at 100% cloudy and it still have a very nice strong affect, the 20 to 40% amber also gave a very nice couch lock affect but i found that the couch lock affect tends to last slightly longer,
but im thinking the trichs mature after harvest because the plant is no longer getting water, this may help mature the trichs after harvest,
but they do mature to some extent after harvest, ive had seeds that was green at harvest but then when buds was dry they was bigger and a nice brown color, so after harvest the plant still matures while its full of moisture, once its started to dry the process stops, i think its down to the plant drying out that causes the trichs and seeds to mature at a faster rate for a day or 2,
the pdf and other info is an interesting read, the more of us that grow then the more info their will be coming out, im sure as it becomes more legal to grow then we will have some amazing new data and some new ideas to try. the insect attack experiment was done with a type of shrub that released this homrone and in the tests the plants nearest the shrub that was attacked had increased growth and higher levels, ill try and find that info as well, problem is its not a shrub that grows in the UK so no good to me, but if i could get hold of some then id grow a small pot of it in the corner of the grow room then attack it by shredding leaves like an insect would so it releases the hormones,
@fuzzy, the starch/sugar info is one of those that i think the difference would only be slight or it would show up more if the product was processed for oil, i think if their was a major difference then we would all know about it, so i guess for the perfectionist then you would harvest when starch was at its lowest so just before lights come on, im thinking the starch is sent back to the roots during the dark period so it helps with root development, so im guessing removing the starch has more of a benefit than leaving the starch in. it may affect the cure process but im no scietist so cant comment on how the starch would affect the cure.
now for trich production, the only info that i have come across that seems reliable on increasing trich production is by having very low humidity during flowering, again its not been tested enough to prove either way but it does tend to say lower humidity increases trich production, so the trichs must be protecting the plant from the sun so uv and lower humidity may increase trichs, but to even begin to test this idea you would need to grow the same strain for a good many grows so you know exactly how it grows and how it produces, then you would need a way of testing the end results, what we need is our own lab and all the testing equipment then we can prove either way what works and what dont
one of the things we know works is letting the thc turn into cbn, when a plant is 100% cloudy thc is at its peak, so for peak thc of that strain you want to harvest when its slightly below 100% cloudy so after a couple of days of drying it should be around 100% thc, but a lot of growers want a more couch lock affect so we let the trichs turn amber with is when the thc is degrading and its turning into cbn which gives is the couch lock affect, now when i grow indicas i like to harvets at around 20 to 40%amber, but a good indica strain is always going to give you a couch lock affect so the difference is only slight, ive sampled my buds at 100% cloudy and it still have a very nice strong affect, the 20 to 40% amber also gave a very nice couch lock affect but i found that the couch lock affect tends to last slightly longer,
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
Now that is very informative and as I'm about to cut down my Afghan Kush - here it is by the way:
... I can really use this info
When I was examining trichs yesterday they came 90-95 cloudy with some touch of amber (but not more than 2-3%). I'll add that I'm in 6th week today (36th day). Now, I was growing one pure indica in the past and pulled it a little bit too late for my taste (60-70% amber trichs) and couchlock was heavy and high was short-lasting, thus this time I want to chop it down much earlier (in two days) to let it mature while it's drying. I was tasting samples since 4th week and it's super potent now, so I don't feel I should risk higher CBN content by letting it go further.
As far as resin production is concerned I still think it's mostly strain dependent, but if UVB really does any good there's one simple way, put your plants outdoor and force flowering them in the middle of July as I did with this one above.
... I can really use this info
When I was examining trichs yesterday they came 90-95 cloudy with some touch of amber (but not more than 2-3%). I'll add that I'm in 6th week today (36th day). Now, I was growing one pure indica in the past and pulled it a little bit too late for my taste (60-70% amber trichs) and couchlock was heavy and high was short-lasting, thus this time I want to chop it down much earlier (in two days) to let it mature while it's drying. I was tasting samples since 4th week and it's super potent now, so I don't feel I should risk higher CBN content by letting it go further.
As far as resin production is concerned I still think it's mostly strain dependent, but if UVB really does any good there's one simple way, put your plants outdoor and force flowering them in the middle of July as I did with this one above.
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- #59
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
I would have to agree with a large portion of what donpaul recently replied with 
After reviewing some areas of info over the last few days... It would appear that having a low starch/sugar content with in the plant after a period of darkness will shorten the curing process by a unknown amount of time !
As many of us will flush for 1 to 2 weeks so the plants use up nutrients etc in theory this should lower starch/sugar content of plant as their is less food for the plant to use ultimately improving end taste & after some 24 hours to 72 hours of darkness the starch/sugar levels will be even lower...
With the method of a slow air dry being favourable along with a suitable curing time & more practical for the connoisseur smoker than the impatient novice for the best smoking bud
As mention above, trichomes do ripen whilst drying & curing for a period of time. As the trichomes turn amber (CBN) the THC content decreases...
If people seek the couch lock effect its best to grow a strain with such characteristics as they may be missing the finer points of strain grown by letting trichomes go amber.
At the end of day it all boils down to individuals own taste & requirements along with strain grown to effect end high of when harvested in trichome development with this all depending on strain !
As for extra trichomes, it does appear low humidity increase's trichomes level... from what i've read it was mainly regarded with weed grown out doors in some countries with low humidity & strong sun light in some areas, all of this dated back to the late 70's tho !
But may be applied indoors in a suitable controlled environment at cost.
Since we are some 40 years ahead of that time period many strains have changed, we can all get hold of heavy resin strains pretty easy to grow, but whether the grower can manipulate his environment well enough to support low humidity is another matter indeed... some of this may come at cost to run a dehumidifier on the old electric bill, others may be as lucky to live in a low humidity part of the world e.g a desert region etc...
More likely only practical for the use off bubble bags or hand hash the extra resin, i really don't think it will support extra THC increase as this all strain related at the end of the day...
After reviewing some areas of info over the last few days... It would appear that having a low starch/sugar content with in the plant after a period of darkness will shorten the curing process by a unknown amount of time !
As many of us will flush for 1 to 2 weeks so the plants use up nutrients etc in theory this should lower starch/sugar content of plant as their is less food for the plant to use ultimately improving end taste & after some 24 hours to 72 hours of darkness the starch/sugar levels will be even lower...
With the method of a slow air dry being favourable along with a suitable curing time & more practical for the connoisseur smoker than the impatient novice for the best smoking bud
As mention above, trichomes do ripen whilst drying & curing for a period of time. As the trichomes turn amber (CBN) the THC content decreases...
If people seek the couch lock effect its best to grow a strain with such characteristics as they may be missing the finer points of strain grown by letting trichomes go amber.
At the end of day it all boils down to individuals own taste & requirements along with strain grown to effect end high of when harvested in trichome development with this all depending on strain !
As for extra trichomes, it does appear low humidity increase's trichomes level... from what i've read it was mainly regarded with weed grown out doors in some countries with low humidity & strong sun light in some areas, all of this dated back to the late 70's tho !
But may be applied indoors in a suitable controlled environment at cost.
Since we are some 40 years ahead of that time period many strains have changed, we can all get hold of heavy resin strains pretty easy to grow, but whether the grower can manipulate his environment well enough to support low humidity is another matter indeed... some of this may come at cost to run a dehumidifier on the old electric bill, others may be as lucky to live in a low humidity part of the world e.g a desert region etc...
More likely only practical for the use off bubble bags or hand hash the extra resin, i really don't think it will support extra THC increase as this all strain related at the end of the day...
Man I hope my blue mystic turns out half as nice as that, I haven't been lucky enough to get a colorful pheno yet so fingers crossed!