Fresh Harvest Infused Cannabis Oil

I am going to give this a try in my own way.

I like coconut oil so there you go. I will take my fresh trim and popcorn bud, weigh it up and chop it up. I will use my basic formula and use 4x the amount of fresh (figuring I get about 1/4 the weight when dry). Chop well into bowl. Add oil and lecithin. Cook in oven @200 for 4 hours. Then increase heat to 230 for 110 minutes to decarb. Strain and done.

Any thoughts? :circle-of-love::peace:
 
Weaselcracker said:
Thanks Sue. Good stuff. Glad I found this thread again. I was going to sub in last time I found it, then my phone died again.
A question, sort of. I read that after about 70% decarb you are losing THC, as it converts to CBN, faster than you are gaining it from the THCa being converted. I was told to stop decarbing once the bubbles slow down a bit- as a sort of guesstimate of that 70% mark. Do you agree with this (apparently not- or you like a little CBN in the mix).

Of course I don't know anything about this stuff. I've found the decarb temps/time topic a lttile confusing, as you know cause you had to read a zillion PMs from me asking dumb questions about it. :laughtwo: :thanks:
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I saw a couple responses to this but it's time I subbed in here, so here goes my 2 cents.

The tests I've seen that conclude that THC peaks at 70% decarboxylation were done at higher temperatures. One was as high as 280 degrees F. The way I first learned to make oil (probably most of us) was to decarb by gradually heating to 250 F until bubbles stop. What we've found here and other of Sue's group experiments is that decarb occurs more efficiently at lower temps. I've found it starts to occur in my still at 170 F. And Gigi showed us how to do it without heat.

I'm going to make a hypothesis based on results posted here and some related threads:
1) THCa decarbs and THC degrades to CBN faster at higher temps, but the ratio of decarbing to degrading is not the same at different temps. I could add loss of terpenes also occurs at different rate relative to other changes at different temps.
2) At temps around the boiling point of water the rate of decarb is faster relative to degradation to CBN compared to higher temps.
3) The more THCa decarbs the more heat is takes to decarb the remaining amount. In other words, bubbling will eventually stop at any given temp held long enough, but will resume if temp is raised.
The result of all this postulation is that A) decarbing fresh harvest oil at lower temps is more efficient than higher temps so peak conversion occurs at higher %, and B) decarb stops short of 100% conversion, so when bubbling stops at 212 F the oil is close to that peak conversion mark whatever that might be.

This could be complete and utter nonsense and I have no way to prove any of it, but it seems to tie together what I've seen working with oven decarb, ND sap, and now fresh harvest oil.
 
KingstonRabbi said:
I saw a couple responses to this but it's time I subbed in here, so here goes my 2 cents.

The tests I've seen that conclude that THC peaks at 70% decarboxylation were done at higher temperatures. One was as high as 280 degrees F. The way I first learned to make oil (probably most of us) was to decarb by gradually heating to 250 F until bubbles stop. What we've found here and other of Sue's group experiments is that decarb occurs more efficiently at lower temps. I've found it starts to occur in my still at 170 F. And Gigi showed us how to do it without heat.

I'm going to make a hypothesis based on results posted here and some related threads:
1) THCa decarbs and THC degrades to CBN faster at higher temps, but the ratio of decarbing to degrading is not the same at different temps. I could add loss of terpenes also occurs at different rate relative to other changes at different temps.
2) At temps around the boiling point of water the rate of decarb is faster relative to degradation to CBN compared to higher temps.
3) The more THCa decarbs the more heat is takes to decarb the remaining amount. In other words, bubbling will eventually stop at any given temp held long enough, but will resume if temp is raised.
The result of all this postulation is that A) decarbing fresh harvest oil at lower temps is more efficient than higher temps so peak conversion occurs at higher %, and B) decarb stops short of 100% conversion, so when bubbling stops at 212 F the oil is close to that peak conversion mark whatever that might be.

This could be complete and utter nonsense and I have no way to prove any of it, but it seems to tie together what I've seen working with oven decarb, ND sap, and now fresh harvest oil.
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Nicely formulated theories/postulations :)
 
Another great thread Sue and the thought of not having to trim, dry and cure a lot of my harvest sounds damn good to me.

With my arthritis it takes me forever to trim my harvest and I've got 23 plants/4 strains close to chopping time. I even bought a TrimPro Unplugged to help get it done easier and faster but with fresh buds it just glues the bud leaves to the bud and doesn't do squat but beat the buds up. Wanna buy a trimmer? ;)

Interesting about the differences in the way olive and coconut oils work to deliver the medicine where most needed so I guess I'll be getting a big jug of virgin olive oil next time I get to Costco.

What are your thoughts about freezing fresh bud in airtight containers for later use?

L8r
 
200g fresh trim and popcorn bud, 3c coconut oil and 3T lecithin. Chopped well and cooked in oven for 3 hours @ 180. Temp raised to 230. Cooked for 2 more hours after the oil reached 230 should all be decarbed. Here it is. :circle-of-love::peace:

20170617_215626_resized.jpg
 
Dave Groomer said:
200g fresh trim and popcorn bud, 3c coconut oil and 3T lecithin. Chopped well and cooked in oven for 3 hours @ 180. Temp raised to 230. Cooked for 2 more hours after the oil reached 230 should all be decarbed. Here it is. :circle-of-love::peace:

20170617_215626_resized.jpg
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Well Dave....... yet another variation on the theme. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

When will you be testing it?
 
OldMedUser said:
Another great thread Sue and the thought of not having to trim, dry and cure a lot of my harvest sounds damn good to me.

With my arthritis it takes me forever to trim my harvest and I've got 23 plants/4 strains close to chopping time. I even bought a TrimPro Unplugged to help get it done easier and faster but with fresh buds it just glues the bud leaves to the bud and doesn't do squat but beat the buds up. Wanna buy a trimmer? ;)

Interesting about the differences in the way olive and coconut oils work to deliver the medicine where most needed so I guess I'll be getting a big jug of virgin olive oil next time I get to Costco.

What are your thoughts about freezing fresh bud in airtight containers for later use?

L8r
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Hahaha! You're fun to have around. I have no need for a trimmer any more. Lol! :hugs: You'll appreciate the way this method gets that harvest tidied away lickety-split. What isn't immediately turned into oil is dried in the refrigerator, essentially locking the terpenes and flavonoids in and potentiating the buds in ways we're stunned by every day. We have a thread on that too, if you're interested, and you probably will be. The guys are having great fun with this drying technique, setting up units dedicated to drying in the cold.

DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest

I think freezing buds for future use is a wonderful idea. It allows you to put off the work for a more opportune moment without losing any of the terpenes and flavonoids. Delayed fresh harvest infused. :slide: Professional concerns now freeze within four hours of harvest if oil is the intended outcome.

Yeah.... that CajunCelt kinda lit a fire under me, teaching me all this wonderful stuff like the importance of choosing the right carrier oil and including liquid sunflower lecithin to improve bioavailability, and the fact that we have endocannabinoid systems and what that means in the context of healing with cannabis. When I met him here I was this scared widow looking for something to keep me occupied. Little did I know it'd mushroom into all of this. But all of this is so much fun I can't stop. :battingeyelashes:

I'm buying a pressure cooker next week to use the way Shiggity did. I also like what Dave did here with this first batch of his. I'm not certain either method got all of the water out, but then I'm not certain that makes any difference at all. What matters is the plant oil is released, bonded to the carrier oil, and decarbed for the desired potency.
 
I'm having my first go at fresh run cco right now. Found a girl in my flower tent with the nanners. She was 5 weeks into flower. She had some nice stickiness but the buds weren't real big. I was caught off guard with this situation so I had to improvise. I cut her down and hung for about 4 hours. I then cut her up super small with scissors. I haven't ordered my immersion blender yet. When I cut the plant up I cut it alllll up. Only thing not cut up is the sticks that scissors don't cut. So there's bud and sugar leaves and fan leaves. I grabbed some Mason jars and filled each with 150 grams of the chopped up goodness. Then I had to search for oil... Only thing I had other than cheap stuff is a Olive oil and sunflower oil blend. So I added 1.5 cups to each jar. I put the jars in a pot of boiling water and set the timer for two hours. There is one hour left and I shake it once in a while. What do you guys think? Will this be strong enough to make capsules or should I cook with it? Have I even decarbed it enough? I know I didn't do this in an efficient manner but I was caught unprepared. Thoughts my fellow herbalists?
 
Bloodguy said:
I'm having my first go at fresh run cco right now. Found a girl in my flower tent with the nanners. She was 5 weeks into flower. She had some nice stickiness but the buds weren't real big. I was caught off guard with this situation so I had to improvise. I cut her down and hung for about 4 hours. I then cut her up super small with scissors. I haven't ordered my immersion blender yet. When I cut the plant up I cut it alllll up. Only thing not cut up is the sticks that scissors don't cut. So there's bud and sugar leaves and fan leaves. I grabbed some Mason jars and filled each with 150 grams of the chopped up goodness. Then I had to search for oil... Only thing I had other than cheap stuff is a Olive oil and sunflower oil blend. So I added 1.5 cups to each jar. I put the jars in a pot of boiling water and set the timer for two hours. There is one hour left and I shake it once in a while. What do you guys think? Will this be strong enough to make capsules or should I cook with it? Have I even decarbed it enough? I know I didn't do this in an efficient manner but I was caught unprepared. Thoughts my fellow herbalists?
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The boiling water won't get it decarbed. When you're done with the two hours, strain the oil, put it into a container and decarb in the oven at 230 F for another two hours, like Dave just did.

Hey..... Life happens. :hugs: It's not what happens, or even how you initially react. It's what resourcefulness we demonstrate after that initial reaction that really matters, and you did the smartest thing.

Once you get it decarbed try some, just a tiny bit, to judge the effect yourself. This method retains all the potency, much of which we were letting evaporate away hanging to dry, so you may find it surprisingly potent. Let us know what results you get, and may it knock your socks off. :slide:
 
SweetSue said:
Hahaha! You're fun to have around. I have no need for a trimmer any more. Lol! :hugs: You'll appreciate the way this method gets that harvest tidied away lickety-split. What isn't immediately turned into oil is dried in the refrigerator, essentially locking the terpenes and flavonoids in and potentiating the buds in ways we're stunned by every day. We have a thread on that too, if you're interested, and you probably will be. The guys are having great fun with this drying technique, setting up units dedicated to drying in the cold.

DrZiggy's Low And Slow Drying: Maximizing Your Harvest

I think freezing buds for future use is a wonderful idea. It allows you to put off the work for a more opportune moment without losing any of the terpenes and flavonoids. Delayed fresh harvest infused. :slide: Professional concerns now freeze within four hours of harvest if oil is the intended outcome.

Yeah.... that CajunCelt kinda lit a fire under me, teaching me all this wonderful stuff like the importance of choosing the right carrier oil and including liquid sunflower lecithin to improve bioavailability, and the fact that we have endocannabinoid systems and what that means in the context of healing with cannabis. When I met him here I was this scared widow looking for something to keep me occupied. Little did I know it'd mushroom into all of this. But all of this is so much fun I can't stop. :battingeyelashes:

I'm buying a pressure cooker next week to use the way Shiggity did. I also like what Dave did here with this first batch of his. I'm not certain either method got all of the water out, but then I'm not certain that makes any difference at all. What matters is the plant oil is released, bonded to the carrier oil, and decarbed for the desired potency.
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I basically have been doing a long, slow dry of my own devising for 15 years at least. Was still in the old place when I started. I use these small boxes that cigarette tubes come in. Stab some holes in the front, back and to with my trim scissors and line it with wax paper likewise punched with holes. Each box will hold a little over 100g of freshly trimmed bud right off the plant. I weigh everything and put a sticker on top with date, time, strain, gross and tare weights etc. I keep the boxes down in my nice cool basement opening them and carefully loosening the mass of buds twice a day for the first week then once a day after that. I've gone 5 weeks before they get dry enough to put in jars and start burping. Still moist enough to clump together even then. I've got mold on a few over the years but that goes in the oil pot so isn't lost. Very little mold and would toss one if it was all over the pot. For my own use anyway and it doesn't scare me.

Really glad to hear that freezing is fine. I'll just crop the bigger colas and buds that will have great bag appeal and trim the stuff with no frost on it before using a bud stripper to quickly rip the buds off. Will save me days of work. I've got lots of 200g tobacco cans that will be perfect for storage in the freezer. Screw the lid on then run a strip of electrical tape around the seam and they're as airtight as anything you could use. Shipped a buddy some pot in a 100g one and didn't worry at all about odors. I use them for my burping jars too as they are smooth inside and the big clump of buds slides right out onto parchment paper to get broken up and get a breath of fresh air.

I got a pressure cooker but it needs a new gasket and I'm not sure if I'd go that route but ya never know.

And I froze that cocobudder I made for a friend with her pot. Looked like cracks in the jar but was just cracks in the frozen budder. lol
 
I got a pressure cooker but it needs a new gasket and I'm not sure if I'd go that route but ya never know.
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Actually I've been thinking this fresh harvest oil idea is incentive to finally get a replacement gasket for mine- and I can stop borrowing my neighbour's every time I want to can something.
 
SweetSue said:
The boiling water won't get it decarbed. When you're done with the two hours, strain the oil, put it into a container and decarb in the oven at 230 F for another two hours, like Dave just did.

Hey..... Life happens. :hugs: It's not what happens, or even how you initially react. It's what resourcefulness we demonstrate after that initial reaction that really matters, and you did the smartest thing.

Once you get it decarbed try some, just a tiny bit, to judge the effect yourself. This method retains all the potency, much of which we were letting evaporate away hanging to dry, so you may find it surprisingly potent. Let us know what results you get, and may it knock your socks off. :slide:
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Alright here goes.... I decarbed like I was taught . I checked once in a while and never really saw much action. Just real small amounts of lil bubbles. I let it cool over night. An hour and 45 mins ago I took one teaspoon. I see why the capsules are necessary, it doesn't taste good at all. At this point I can't say I'm "high" but I feel positive, upbeat, energetic, and ready to handle business. I'd like just a lil more punch though. So my next question for the gurus is... Should I maybe try to decarbed again with the oven set a lil higher or just up the dose a little? I'm not sure how much liquid a capsule holds but a teaspoon is like 5 mils I guess and if I need increase it a little am I looking at my dose being a handful of caps? PS... You all rock!
 
:thumb:
Weaselcracker said:
Actually I've been thinking this fresh harvest oil idea is incentive to finally get a replacement gasket for mine- and I can stop borrowing my neighbour's every time I want to can something.
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Yes it has been incentive enough for me to also replace the gasket in my pressure cooker, headed back to the hardware store for the right gasket. Model numbers worn off so third times a charm, guess again.:Namaste:
 
Whoever said pot users were stupid should see that!

Excellent ghetto solution Bloodguy!

A double "00" cap holds less than a ml/cc so you'd need 5+ caps for a dose.

When I cook mine up in the crockpot it's just little bubbles like gently fizzing ginger ale. I use very dry pot and no added water tho. Mine tastes fine by itself but I like to put it on a cookie and let it soak in. Your dose can be stronger if you use less oil to extract the pot.

I think if I use this method I'm going to strain the mix of oil and water then separate the two and decarb the oil alone. If you boil off the water then all the nasty stuff that should be in the water remains in the oil once the water is gone. Should taste better that way but I'm not sure. I've always used cured pot to make my cocobudder.

L8r
 
Bloodguy said:
Alright here goes.... I decarbed like I was taught . I checked once in a while and never really saw much action. Just real small amounts of lil bubbles. I let it cool over night. An hour and 45 mins ago I took one teaspoon. I see why the capsules are necessary, it doesn't taste good at all. At this point I can't say I'm "high" but I feel positive, upbeat, energetic, and ready to handle business. I'd like just a lil more punch though. So my next question for the gurus is... Should I maybe try to decarbed again with the oven set a lil higher or just up the dose a little? I'm not sure how much liquid a capsule holds but a teaspoon is like 5 mils I guess and if I need increase it a little am I looking at my dose being a handful of caps? PS... You all rock!
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I don't think you got it decarbed. It's fooled me before. :cheesygrinsmiley: My sense is that if you decarb this properly you'll be able to get a strong dose at around 3 capsules, if you can take that many. I'm serious about this guys, I'm using a CBD Critical Cure at expected rates of no more than 10% THC and 15% CBD. I can't function on any level other than fun on two capsules. I'm flying on one. This has never been my experience before I used this method. I'm typically 20+ THC and very little CBD. The CBD should be cancelling out the THC, wouldn't you think? Not at all my consistent experience.

My recommendation would be to decarb in the oven or with an oil bath until there are almost no bubbles. Oven will be easier, stovetop with oil bath will be more visible.

OldMedUser, would you think it possible for the crockpot to be used to finish his decarb?
 
Bloodguy said:
Organic pill jig
420-magazine-mobile2096332308.jpg
saved myself $16 and if i spill oil I can eat it!
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Good idea, and you got reps for ingenuity, but this only works if you're only making capsules for yourself, and I assure you, start using them as a regular regimen and you'll see changes in yourself that'll get you excited. Before you know it you'll be making them for someone else. :laughtwo: At that point you'll invest in a jig. Lol!
 
SweetSue said:
I don't think you got it decarbed. It's fooled me before. :cheesygrinsmiley: My sense is that if you decarb this properly you'll be able to get a strong dose at around 3 capsules, if you can take that many. I'm serious about this guys, I'm using a CBD Critical Cure at expected rates of no more than 10% THC and 15% CBD. I can't function on any level other than fun on two capsules. I'm flying on one. This has never been my experience before I used this method. I'm typically 20+ THC and very little CBD. The CBD should be cancelling out the THC, wouldn't you think? Not at all my consistent experience.

My recommendation would be to decarb in the oven or with an oil bath until there are almost no bubbles. Oven will be easier, stovetop with oil bath will be more visible.

OldMedUser, would you think it possible for the crockpot to be used to finish his decarb?
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Hmmmmm.. maybe I should scrape up some pennies and buy a temperature gun. This decarb stuff is tricky. My oven says It was at 230 for two hours. The oil was in a Pyrex dish. Maybe the oven doesn't maintain temperatures properly. I have a hot plate I use for my vac purge setup, that might work. I have a couple crockpots too. I'm gonna make this work eventually. Thank you for all this help .
 
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