Forbidden Fruits With LED

[AdaminCO]

I’m going to get chastised for this but here’s my opinion.

When you topped on the 2nd, you cut your a lot of your immediate nutrient/auxin reserves off too. (That handful of thick fan leaves)

I top between 4-5, we’ll technically 7-8 because I cut the 2 lowers off at transplant and bury them. Regardless when I top, that’s all I do, no other cutting. Less stress is bess.

Your plants could have used those reserves for the stress they were about to endure. When you topped them on the 2nd, then 8 days later applied HST and cut more fans (even though they weren’t looking happy), you stressed them out even further.

Anytime you apply HST, heavy defol, hell even before you flip…. your plants need to be lush and healthy.

This looks like a case of malnutrition and impatience to me. I’m just not not sure if the malnutrition is a result the impatience, or if you not feeding every time is causing deficiencies.

You should always wait until your plants are looking happy before you start any HST. Ease up on them a bit, get the wet/dry/feed cycle down. They’ll bounce back.

Also…. Most folks I see running airpots with soil figure out how difficult it is to get the wet/dry/feed/water schedule down and decide to use good quality felt pots instead. They help retain water a bit better and help prevent those pesky gnats we always see with organic soils. Every hole in those airpots is an open door to your roots. I personally think they are best for hydro/soilless type mediums.

Just my 2 cents…

 

[7Dust2]

I’m going to get chastised for this but here’s my opinion.

When you topped on the 2nd, you cut your a lot of your immediate nutrient/auxin reserves off too. (That handful of thick fan leaves)

I top between 4-5, we’ll technically 7-8 because I cut the 2 lowers off at transplant and bury them. Regardless when I top, that’s all I do, no other cutting. Less stress is bess.

Your plants could have used those reserves for the stress they were about to endure. When you topped them on the 2nd, then 8 days later applied HST and cut more fans (even though they weren’t looking happy), you stressed them out even further.

Anytime you apply HST, heavy defol, hell even before you flip…. your plants need to be lush and healthy.

This looks like a case of malnutrition and impatience to me. I’m just not not sure if the malnutrition is a result the impatience, or if you not feeding every time is causing deficiencies.

You should always wait until your plants are looking happy before you start any HST. Ease up on them a bit, get the wet/dry/feed cycle down. They’ll bounce back.

Also…. Most folks I see running airpots with soil figure out how difficult it is to get the wet/dry/feed/water schedule down and decide to use good quality felt pots instead. They help retain water a bit better and help prevent those pesky gnats we always see with organic soils. Every hole in those airpots is an open door to your roots. I personally think they are best for hydro/soilless type mediums.

Just my 2 cents…

So true

 

[KingJohnC]

Subscribed

 

[static123]

Hi hope everyone is well. I have been struggling with a calcium magnesium deficiency and I seem to not be out of the woods just yet, I have been getting some great advice here What have I done

I am upping everything again and will try and get hold of some Epsom Salts to spray. I wasn’t aware that growing with LEDS require high amount of Cal mag.

 

[static123]

A tiny bit better after using Epsom salts to spray, upping the cal mag and grow, hopefully in a week or so she will look even better and then I can switch to flower.

 

[dynamohum]

Hey guys and girls I hope everyone is doing ok and getting through this absolute nightmare of an existence we have all been stuck in these last few years.

Apologies in advanced for any grammar and spelling mistakes I am not the most academic person and have dyslexia so this sort of thing is a little tricky for me, this is also my first attempt at a journal.

I am 42 and live in the South East of the UK, I started to get in to growing when my wife was diagnosed with MS (Multiple sclerosis) and have since been finding my way with help from this amazing place and people. My wife benefits immensely from using Cannabis I also get great relief for my anxiety and depression that manifested over the years bringing up my amazing Son who unfortunately has a very rare chromosome condition called STXBP1 and low functioning autism / dyspraxia / hyper mobility/ ADHD. If only I could use this amazing plant for him and not just the CBD Paste we are allowed to use legally here in this backwards country I call home, anyway thats a totally different subject all together, Don't get me started........

This will be my 12th or so grow but my first with this light setup, I was using a 400w Sun Master HPS before and now using a Telos Pro 10 Mesh LED

Breakdown of everything

Strain - Forbidden Fruits (My first time growing this strain but from what I have seen it is a very nice indica with an incredible array of terpenes and looks very pretty) these are feminised seeds.

Genetics - Cherry Pie / Tangie

Flowering Time - 7 / 9 weeks

Indica / Sativa - 70% Indica 30% Sativa

They were started off in small pots then transplanted over to the Superoots Air Pots ( I think they are 5L but cant remember, every time I poor the water in to check it pours out, stupid holes)

Medium - Soil BioBizz All Mix

Nutrients are all the Biobizz Range and I am sticking to there amounts every other water, So one with Nutrients and one with just plane water, both at 6.2 PH

Biobizz products used - Grow - Bloom - Heaven - Top Max - ActiVera - Microbes

Light is a Telos Pro 10 Mesh, running 24/7 this was set to 200 PPF and I have slowly increased it to 420 as the plants have grown, it will eventually be set to 750 for flower in the coming weeks. the hight I have them set seems to be ok according to Telos’s information and guide. I tend to do LST and pull them down as they grow so hopefully I can keep the perfect distance through out. Telos recommends the following, Seedlings = 120CM from top of plants, Vegetative = 100CM and Flower = 80CM

I have two fans Running one is to move the water on the sponge ( don’t worry it gets a good clean every two days so no mould hopefully ) this is an attempt at brighting the RH up to a respectable level it has worked a little but I am still struggling to get and keep it above 50%, even tho I have the intake and exhaust set very low I am still struggling, the other fan is just indirectly moving the air and leaves off the plants the temps in the tent are between 22 / 25 and Rh 40 / 45 / 50.

So far they have only had one water in the current pots and that was with nutrients with a PPM of 800 and PH off 6.2 unfortunately they have been a little upset since the transplant but they seem to be perking up ok.

I will try and do updates at the minimum of once a week but will endeavor to do it more often if life allows me too. I hope you guys can offer support as and when I need it and that you find this grow interesting, it will be fun trying out this new light and strain with you all.

Below are some Photos, thanks for reading and If you have any question or if i have missed anything off please ask.

Very nice looking plants, fat and happy.

 

[static123]

Hey hope everyone is doing well. They are slowly getting better so that’s a win so far however I am now needing to thin them out a bit as you can see from the pictures they are rather plump, what would you guys suggest, how would you go about doing this ? Many thanks

 

[KingJohnC]

We are able to see in the photographs of the cannabis plants that the formerly upward curled fan leaves have uncurled and the magnesium treatment is allowing the cannabis plants to properly process nitrogen again. The treatment is allowing the plants to assimilate nitrogen again by the deeper green colour in the leaves and return to health.

To defoliate the cannabis plants in preparation for flower start by conservatively removing lower damaged fan leaves and any lower leaf that shades out a bud site. Cannabis plants grown indoors can easily grow overly dense and shade out lower potentially productive bud site from receiving effect light intensity.

 

[AdaminCO]

Hey hope everyone is doing well. They are slowly getting better so that’s a win so far however I am now needing to thin them out a bit as you can see from the pictures they are rather plump, what would you guys suggest, how would you go about doing this ? Many thanks

Just keep some good airflow under their skirts. Trim 21 days after flip. These were mine before flip. You’re looking good, stay on course.

Keep your reserves (Fan leafs). You’re plants need them for a complete recovery and a successful transition to flower. Since you’ve had issues recently, your plant knows exactly where to go for emergency reserves.

If you trim those away, they have to establish a new path (to another leaf) to access reserves and you’ll see it again on another leaf within time.

Start asking friends if they want clones.

 

[KingJohnC]

When properly timed following defoliation in vegetative growth a growth spurt follows where the cannabis plant is quickly able to generate new vegetative mass in only a few days at more optimal placement allowing more effective light penetration to the bud sites at the nodes.

Here is the information on defoliation

Defoliation is a point of controversy. I have found that cannabis can grow too dense and shade out many productive bud sites. A few days after defoliation a cannabis plant will have a very fast growth phase where its smaller leaves will grow quite quickly to make up the lost leaf mass. In vegetative growth when I defoliate I have found that a cannabis plant will grow a similar amount of leaf mass in as little as 10 days under High Intensity Discharge lighting with a Metal Halide light bulb. Ideally I would have allowed a 7 day vegetative growth period between defoliation and placing the plants in flower, this was also done to limit the amount of stretch due to height restrictions. The growth at the nodes of the plants were small, defoliation has encouraged these small fan leaves to grow. You can see the amount of leaf growth that has occurred in only 3 days. Defoliation can be done when a cannabis plant has sufficient size and leaf mass in vegetative growth and allowed rebuild its leaf mass. Defoliation can be done in flower at days 21-25 when the stretch phase has ended and again at day 45 if needed.

Fan leaves are nutrient sinks that store nutrients and generate energy for the plant, I would recommend if you are going to defoliate that only the lower growth that will not produce anything except popcorn buds and any leaf that shades a bud site be removed.

I have read a study where fan leaves were removed and the sugar leaves that emerge from buds are said to supply enough energy to the cannabis plant.

"However Jeast (03.13.02) believes that the rich green leaves emerging from the bud are a sufficient energy source of solar energy for the plant's floral development. Therefore the old fan leaves are once again rendered useless and only drain energy from the developing part of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.02)Fan leaves store mobile nutrients, these stored nutrients are essential in the later stages of flowering. When flushing a plant the fan leaves will lose their colour quickly. This is because the nutrients are being mobilized to the atypical meristem (grow tip, bud site). Draining your fan leaves with a flushing period will increase floral development"

Bassman59 has several grow journals where he uses a high amount of defoliation and has excellent harvests

https://www.420magazine.com members Bassman59

I recommend you either grow for several harvests and for that to serve as a basis on your understanding of how cannabis can grow or when growing the same strain you defoliate one plant and have one plant as a control to see how the plants differ in their development.

 

[static123]

We are able to see in the photographs of the cannabis plants that the formerly upward curled fan leaves have uncurled and the magnesium treatment is allowing the cannabis plants to properly process nitrogen again. The treatment is allowing the plants to assimilate nitrogen again by the deeper green colour in the leaves and return to health.

To defoliate the cannabis plants in preparation for flower start by conservatively removing lower damaged fan leaves and any lower leaf that shades out a bud site. Cannabis plants grown indoors can easily grow overly dense and shade out lower potentially productive bud site from receiving effect light intensity.

Thank you that’s a great help.

 

[static123]

Just keep some good airflow under their skirts. Trim 21 days after flip. These were mine before flip. You’re looking good, stay on course.

Keep your reserves (Fan leafs). You’re plants need them for a complete recovery and a successful transition to flower. Since you’ve had issues recently, your plant knows exactly where to go for emergency reserves.

If you trim those away, they have to establish a new path (to another leaf) to access reserves and you’ll see it again on another leaf within time.

Start asking friends if they want clones.

Thanks, your plants look amazing, hopefully one day ill have the same.

 

[static123]

When properly timed following defoliation in vegetative growth a growth spurt follows where the cannabis plant is quickly able to generate new vegetative mass in only a few days at more optimal placement allowing more effective light penetration to the bud sites at the nodes.

Here is the information on defoliation

Defoliation is a point of controversy. I have found that cannabis can grow too dense and shade out many productive bud sites. A few days after defoliation a cannabis plant will have a very fast growth phase where its smaller leaves will grow quite quickly to make up the lost leaf mass. In vegetative growth when I defoliate I have found that a cannabis plant will grow a similar amount of leaf mass in as little as 10 days under High Intensity Discharge lighting with a Metal Halide light bulb. Ideally I would have allowed a 7 day vegetative growth period between defoliation and placing the plants in flower, this was also done to limit the amount of stretch due to height restrictions. The growth at the nodes of the plants were small, defoliation has encouraged these small fan leaves to grow. You can see the amount of leaf growth that has occurred in only 3 days. Defoliation can be done when a cannabis plant has sufficient size and leaf mass in vegetative growth and allowed rebuild its leaf mass. Defoliation can be done in flower at days 21-25 when the stretch phase has ended and again at day 45 if needed.

Fan leaves are nutrient sinks that store nutrients and generate energy for the plant, I would recommend if you are going to defoliate that only the lower growth that will not produce anything except popcorn buds and any leaf that shades a bud site be removed.

I have read a study where fan leaves were removed and the sugar leaves that emerge from buds are said to supply enough energy to the cannabis plant.

"However Jeast (03.13.02) believes that the rich green leaves emerging from the bud are a sufficient energy source of solar energy for the plant's floral development. Therefore the old fan leaves are once again rendered useless and only drain energy from the developing part of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.02)Fan leaves store mobile nutrients, these stored nutrients are essential in the later stages of flowering. When flushing a plant the fan leaves will lose their colour quickly. This is because the nutrients are being mobilized to the atypical meristem (grow tip, bud site). Draining your fan leaves with a flushing period will increase floral development"

Bassman59 has several grow journals where he uses a high amount of defoliation and has excellent harvests

https://www.420magazine.com members Bassman59

I recommend you either grow for several harvests and for that to serve as a basis on your understanding of how cannabis can grow or when growing the same strain you defoliate one plant and have one plant as a control to see how the plants differ in their development.

Amazing information thank you

 

[static123]

So after all the great advice I have trimmed them back I think they look much better now and air should now move around much easier.

 

[KingJohnC]

Thank you that’s a great help.

Amazing information thank you

You are welcome!

Can you plese take some photographs of the cannabis plant from overhead to show the plant canopy from above and the plants coverage area.

 

[static123]

You are welcome!

Can you plese take some photographs of the cannabis plant from overhead to show the plant canopy from above and the plants coverage area.

 

[KingJohnC]

When growing cannabis plants indoors a major limitation is the intensity of the available light source and effective vegetative and effective flowering distance from the light source without light bleaching the top parts of cannabis plants. Light intensity strength diminishes by 1/4 strength per linear foot from the light source. Yes artificial illumination can and does pass though multiple layers of leaves and the intensity diminishes until the lights intensity no longer provides effective energy for the plants use.

I believe that this is largely why defoliation is effective for cannabis grown indoors and increased harvest yields.

Hi, again thanks for the detailed info, I am using cal mag at 1ml per L but perhaps I should up that a little, I will also get some Epsom salt and do as you have suggested, Is Epsom something I could find in a health shop ?

Many thanks

I would increase the amount of calcium and magnesium supplement to 2 millilitres per litre. I would continue with the foliar treatment with magnesium sulfate.

The cannabis plants are recovering well. We want the remaining upper leaves to uncurl and darken indicating that the cannabis plants are assimilating nitrogen well and have a sufficient supply for flowering

In the next few days you should see a growth spurt and should the plant still be in good health. In 5 - 7 days the cannabis plants can be placed into flower by altering the light cycle to 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness per day and changing the nutrient mixture to a bloom feeding schedule.

 

[static123]

Hi, I hope everyone is keeping well.
I had to flush them both unfortunately but over the last two days they seem to be getting better, keeping fingers crossed I can go in to flower soon. I flushed with plain pH water more than two times the amount the pots can hold and then the nutrient solution with 2 ml cal mag per litre.

 

[KingJohnC]

I hope within 7 - 9 days the plant shall recover and be placed in flower. Set the light schedule to 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness, transition to conservative bloom nutrients.

 

[static123]

I have absolutely no idea what’s going on with this grow, I have never had so many problems, ok I am not a pro but I have managed to pull of a few really good grows Over the years under HPS, do you guys think that now there is to much Cal mag going on these pictures? I need to switch over to 12/12 now as I am away in 3 months so it needs to be finished.