First Time Growing - Advice Welcome

[Duggan]

I totally understand where you are coming from VI. I bought the kit. I have it upstairs with all of my other grow stuff. I started reading Docs journals and I just got so freaking frustrated with the kit changing throughout his journal. I finally found the updated page where it vaguely explains how to use the kit. I started a Word document to put all of the stuff from Doc's journals in one place to make it easier to follow. That document is 42 pages long with 4 different updates on how to use the kit. From what I can gather it's more of a feel thing instead of concrete instructions. I believe it is designed to be used my a more experienced grower with a host of help from HB growers to help dial it in. You can't argue with the results though, that's for sure.

Noob, no, no ,no , brotha , you must be talkin about another "kit"... are you serious , you guys are gettin on my nerves...Doc's kit is so easy to use ....Just follow his original instructions...what's so hard ...it's bloody easy....Ziggs,...Doc...help, Gray, SweetSue., Major Snoop, Tard,Seshan, 36Grow , Neiko and many more...someone . Doc has a link right in his sig. on "how to use the Kit" plus instructions in his "in the lab" thread . There are multiple places and links throughout his journals on the kit. As well , get this, just ask him!!! He will explain so you understand...it's actually too easy . Wanna kmow exactly what's in his DBHBB?? ask him, as we, the gang get bored cuz there are never any real issues to deal with, so we experiment with it, is all. I'l be back! Cheers.

 

[Noob4x4grow]

I knew I shouldn't have said anything.

 

[DrZiggy]

Cmay,
Your grow is something to be proud of. Keep it simple and go with what works for you. Sometimes these sideshows have merit and sometimes they are disruptive. Remember, it is your thread.

VI,
I am about halfway through your journal and will probably have more to say when I catch up.

The link to DB’s journal post is one that I had read before. What he is advocating is not that different than what you and I are moving towards on our own. Or, more correctly, researching and seeking input from other members. I suspect that you are further along than I am.

The proprietary nature of what DB has going does bother me. If I buy a bag of soil mix, it is going to have an ingredient list.

What I do think is that it is not a bad way to go if someone wants a proven regiment for growing above average cannabis. I also think that there is more to be gained by getting a better understanding of what goes on in the soil and its’ needs.

I will pop up on your thread soon.

Best
canyon

Im baaaaack..
Canyon, DB will give you a list of the contained ingredients. He has done so several times on his threads. Several members have reposted or linked those ingredients and the chemistry and science involved with them in growing and blooming and WASHING the BEST produce presently available at least in many HB growers minds .. and their friends..and patients,.... and mothers , ...and even other growers that have utilized many various other growing nutes. The stuff in the kit is available and same stuff as are the ingredients in most other nutes- minerals, fish, micros, EWC. Doc has the science down and created the kit. Most, if not all of its ingredients come from fertilizer companies that are blended, hence the Blend .
If you are looking to make better than a ever growing, bar raising higher level of excellence, then GREAT! AWESOME...
There is not just one way to grow great herb. The folks using HB, yours truly included, , find its the best so far for us.
-and we all use the ingredients in the kit differently. I have experimented with it over a year + - Every grow since following the kits instructions. Some of it has been posted.
DB is constantly raising the bar. Have you seen his latest plants/buds/stinky diamond mine ? Same kit...he changed the lights..
Hes not happy staying stagnant. The KIT is a system that is ever evolving. Its not set, and its not the same as it was a year ago. It wont be the same next year.

 

[Noob4x4grow]

I know I probably offended you duggan. Not my intention at all. My comment was meant as a perception on how complex growing with HB looks from an outsider. I'm sure it is easy. I'm sure that I was reading the older stuff or something. I have read In the lab and the HB pages. It's a very daunting task sifting through hundreds of pages. I know I can ask Doc questions. But since I'm not even growing in that medium right now, I just gave up researching it from the sheer amount of information I have collected on the subject. It felt like a waste of time for right now. You know this plant and its many different strains don't work with a one size fits all things anyways. I think getting to know the strain and how it grows is most important for me starting out. After I know the strains the way you guys know your strains, I will be ready for HB.
No need for Ziggs, Doc, Gray, SweetSue, Major, Tard, Seshan, 36Grow, Neiko to chime in for me. I know it works. I know it's bomb. I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't.
Please don't take it personal duggan. You are one of my favorite people here.

 

[Duggan]

I know I probably offended you duggan. Not my intention at all. My comment was meant as a perception on how complex growing with HB looks from an outsider. I'm sure it is easy. I'm sure that I was reading the older stuff or something. I have read In the lab and the HB pages. It's a very daunting task sifting through hundreds of pages. I know I can ask Doc questions. But since I'm not even growing in that medium right now, I just gave up researching it from the sheer amount of information I have collected on the subject. It felt like a waste of time for right now. You know this plant and its many different strains don't work with a one size fits all things anyways. I think getting to know the strain and how it grows is most important for me starting out. After I know the strains the way you guys know your strains, I will be ready for HB.
No need for Ziggs, Doc, Gray, SweetSue, Major, Tard, Seshan, 36Grow, Neiko to chime in for me. I know it works. I know it's bomb. I wouldn't have bought it if I didn't.
Please don't take it personal duggan. You are one of my favorite people here.

And you mine Noob....i just got a lil excited there, is all.
The last thing we , as growers want to see are growers not trying something because they don't understand it. I know you will get around to trying DBHBB, most who venture to these parts make the switch ...and don't look back. You don't know it yet ,but it's gonna happen to you too...mua hahaha!
Before the "kit" i tried a couple grows using Doc's Mineral 6/5/3 method, before that it was multiple different super soil recipe's , before that , soiless and chem nutes, before that, back in 86 , it was store bought garden soil and a prayer... I finally came across a method that doesn't stress me out , is reliable, affordable and produces the smoothest weed i've ever had....all the time! So you can see why i'm so passionate about this way and these growers who are willing to help anybody achieve it. have a great night Noob.

 

[DrZiggy]

oh BTW im not here to convert anyone...im here to learn as much as possible to grow the best most amazing plant on earth and share my experience and interpretations of it.

 

[Papageno]

I have been wanting to try this for a year and I still can't get someone to hold my hand on it. I know a bit about growing I can probably get a grasp on this if anyone could explain what I am asking about.

I have been PMing Zig about it. So I think I am finally getting somewhere. It is like this secret club and I can't find the door to knock.

The issue that keeps coming up is people keep pointing out how great it is to use but the only things they sight are the benefits you have with a basic soil grow. And in fact the link Zig left takes you to an explanation where the soil used is the standard "compost cheater" way to do soil I have been using since the mid 90's and has been the standard for cannabis since long before I could grow. It solves all the problems that people list off...pH, uptake rates...you name it. No drenches or sprays required.

So the thing is I think all I have to do is add some foliar and a drench to beef it up a bit and I am golden...but maybe not since I do a more complex and complete and organic grow method. Maybe...just maybe... the rate and way I am getting the sugars to the bacteria are working just fine.



By the way...that journal is not how I normally grow. I was doing that journal to show how to complete a grow for supper cheap not using bottled nutes. I was showing how to do a grow by basically just adding water and tea a few times through the grow. Do not, by any stretch, think that I normally grow that way. I was asked to show it for people who wanted to do it for cheap. I normally would have responded to some things better and sooner but I wanted to let it run its course and I am determined to finish without using nutes. I know enough to run bottle nute free.

 

[Papageno]

@ Canyon:

If you want to skip the conversations and tutorials throughout my journal I posted a fairly comprehensive summary recently.

VI's - Subcool Based - 2 Worm - Multi-Strain - Mother Hunt - 2016

 

[Papageno]

Sorry and to answer the question at hand...

So is it best to harvest whole plant or in stages as buds rippen?

It depends.

The short answer is: If there is a big enough discrepancy between the top and the bottom then yes wait until the most mature are very mature and take what is ready. Then let the rest fill out and top off. It will be a while.

Always harvest after the dark period under low intensity light. The biggest downside is not running that. I mean you probably could and then just keep on blooming...may work just fine. But I have not done it that way. When I have grown them straight up I would just go in and turn off the timer. At the 12 hour wake up point open the tent and chop the tops and after it is out and ready to be cleaned and processed go back and turn on the grow lights (which damage the goods).



The long answer:

It is best to harvest a bud when it is ripe (obviously). The issue comes to how savy of a grower are you and a few personal preferences also impact this.

The whole point of a SCROG is to get the entire plant flat so that you can get light to it evenly and therefore mature them evenly (as seen in nature). If done correctly with enough space and light and smarts a plants final weight is really determined by the rootball or rather the size of the pot and a SCROg or straight up will yield the same when done correctly. In Hydro it is a bit more complex for a lot of reasons and I wont go into that in this post because it gets off topic.

So people will tell you they get better yields because really they were able to manage light better and get the lower ones to reach their potential not fizzle out early...which is what happens to tall plants where the intensity varies.

So when the intensity varies the flower ripens at different rates. The lower ones wont reach their potential but they can get to full ripeness. Which is unnatural by the way, this is why a SCROG is great is it creates a more natural bloom.

Depending on how stretched the plant is, and the some other variables, it can be a huge difference between when the first ones are ready vs. the last ones. The problem is when you harvest the first ones it shocks the plant. So the second or third harvest has to happen after it rebounds and then picks up again. It can take a while. It wont look like it is moving if you take enough of the top to shock it...but it will eventually come back and what is left behind has use of all that root mass. It can come back with a vengeance.

The issue is (and you aint there yet)...it can easily take a month or so to really get that final 1/3 weight. A pro running a perpetual is thinking that is 1/3 of the time to get an entire new plant to harvest. I could have used that month instead getting my next round 1/3rd of the way through bloom and use the low grade stuff to sell to the dispensary.

So this is a real fun part of learning I think is figuring this part out. How much training and trimming and underbrush cleaning you are going to do to get your final yield to max your space.

 

[Duggan]

I have been wanting to try this for a year and I still can't get someone to hold my hand on it. I know a bit about growing I can probably get a grasp on this if anyone could explain what I am asking about.

I have been PMing Zig about it. So I think I am finally getting somewhere. It is like this secret club and I can't find the door to knock.

The issue that keeps coming up is people keep pointing out how great it is to use but the only things they sight are the benefits you have with a basic soil grow. And in fact the link Zig left takes you to an explanation where the soil used is the standard "compost cheater" way to do soil I have been using since the mid 90's and has been the standard for cannabis since long before I could grow. It solves all the problems that people list off...pH, uptake rates...you name it. No drenches or sprays required.

So the thing is I think all I have to do is add some foliar and a drench to beef it up a bit and I am golden...but maybe not since I do a more complex and complete and organic grow method. Maybe...just maybe... the rate and way I am getting the sugars to the bacteria are working just fine.



By the way...that journal is not how I normally grow. I was doing that journal to show how to complete a grow for supper cheap not using bottled nutes. I was showing how to do a grow by basically just adding water and tea a few times through the grow. Do not, by any stretch, think that I normally grow that way. I was asked to show it for people who wanted to do it for cheap. I normally would have responded to some things better and sooner but I wanted to let it run its course and I am determined to finish without using nutes. I know enough to run bottle nute free.

Hey VI, so glad you've bin speaking with Ziggs. Yes, and i do know what you mean about a "secret club"...it's not . We are all enjoying working with the same thing, the "kit" but tweaking it (after a few by the book grows) each , a little different....learning how the different Drenches, Foliars, and products work. The Lab. layed down the ground work for Doc. , in developing his HB line of products.
He will be the first to say it was the people in the white lab coats . I'm sure Doc is enjoying his weekend now , and will prolly jump in and have a lil Q and A with ya , just to sort things out and answer your concerns.Anyhow , gotta book! Cheers VI and gang.

 

[Doc Bud]

Cmay,
Your grow is something to be proud of. Keep it simple and go with what works for you. Sometimes these sideshows have merit and sometimes they are disruptive. Remember, it is your thread.

VI,
I am about halfway through your journal and will probably have more to say when I catch up.

The link to DB's journal post is one that I had read before. What he is advocating is not that different than what you and I are moving towards on our own. Or, more correctly, researching and seeking input from other members. I suspect that you are further along than I am.

The proprietary nature of what DB has going does bother me. If I buy a bag of soil mix, it is going to have an ingredient list.

What I do think is that it is not a bad way to go if someone wants a proven regiment for growing above average cannabis. I also think that there is more to be gained by getting a better understanding of what goes on in the soil and its' needs.

I will pop up on your thread soon.

Best
canyon

I've been told by several people to chime in on the thread, since my methods and kit are being discussed, so I thought I'd make myself available for questions. It's possible I might be able to explain what I'm doing better than some guy on the internet.

I don't sell bags of soil mix. I've also mentioned the ingredients many times, not to mention that they are listed on the labels. So I'm not sure why you seem to imply that there is no ingredient list. There is.

As far as gaining knowledge about what goes on in soil, I actually have some knowledge in that area. I used it to create my kit, and I continue to add knowledge and update materials and methods semi-frequently.

So, what questions do you have and how can I help you? My goal is for you and your friends to grow produce that looks like this:

These are random pics from my most recent upload.

 

[Papageno]

First off thanks for your time!

So I have questions as I can't find things. I am an idiot who can't navigate this site well. I have spent days on here and feel no where closer to finding out anything I need. So for example I really mean no offense or for this to come across

So I'm not sure why you seem to imply that there is no ingredient list.

All I am saying is I can't find them. I have spent long days reading many threads here and I am not finding how to follow this step by step.

So for example you stated...

they are listed on the labels

Does anyone have pictures of these they can post or can list them out? I can't find them.

I continue to add knowledge and update materials and methods semi-frequently.

That is why I have been asking and researching this for a long time and I finally broke down here because I am getting no where.

I have seen many of your plants and read many of your posts...no need to convince me. I point people at your posts all the time.

All I have been asking for is a link to a journal that explains how to do all of this. All the ones I find say I just use "the kit". The one here like I said linked me to an explanation that said basically use a good organic soil that if done correctly doesn't need anything added and then add the foliar and drench and you are golden. So that didn't really help but maybe I need to keep on digging for where it all boils up a few more pages in but that was on like page 100 sumtin...

I have read about doing HB in other plants and I understand the concept. I have read up and almost bought the stuff to test the levels of my soils and plants. I want to see someone show how they are doing it themselves. Maybe one can't becasue it takes the kind of equipment you can't fit in your garage? I don't know. I like to keep it simple and that drives a lot of my decisions.

I know it will take a lot of reading so I am I willing to sit through a well written journal that explains the steps to making the sauce and application and all that. I just want some place to start. Preferably a journal that documents a grow with the necessary details to replicate it myself.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Subbed...
Curious to see what comes out of this conversation. Fwiw- about a year ago I put in a fair amount of time sniffing around trying to find out about the HB kit as well. Admittedly my search was a bit half-assed. I was just curious. Eventually I broke down and asked someone to tell me what 'the kit' was, which I kept reading mentioned, and where to buy it. What I was looking for at that time was something super basic
like:
-A super bare bones explanation of what 'the kit' is.
Where to get it
How to use it.

I did find lots of other info. And I did learn a bunch of stuff about brix. Probably the obvious explanations were right in front of me but the waters had been muddied by hundreds and hundreds of pages of idiots like me constantly wandering in asking stupid questions.

 

[Canyon]

Et al,
We have danced around with this for a while now. So far no one is saying that it is a bad way to go. It is just not my style.

Dock Bud,
Thanks for clearing up the labeling. I don't know if others have avoided posting the labels out of respect for you or what. I do know I have not run across that info in the time I have been on the site. I have never questioned your knowledge on the subject. I am sure it far exceeds mine. Where I have issues is when someone goes beyond suggesting looking into what you have going and elevates what you have accomplished to the level of the only way to go.

I do wish I had adequate power to run AC and CO2 like you are. Climate control is probably my weakest link for now.

BTW, I am subbed to your latest grow.

Best,
canyon

 

[Doc Bud]

First off thanks for your time!

So I have questions as I can't find things. I am an idiot who can't navigate this site well. I have spent days on here and feel no where closer to finding out anything I need. So for example I really mean no offense or for this to come across




All I am saying is I can't find them. I have spent long days reading many threads here and I am not finding how to follow this step by step.

So for example you stated...




Does anyone have pictures of these they can post or can list them out? I can't find them.



That is why I have been asking and researching this for a long time and I finally broke down here because I am getting no where.

I have seen many of your plants and read many of your posts...no need to convince me. I point people at your posts all the time.

All I have been asking for is a link to a journal that explains how to do all of this. All the ones I find say I just use "the kit". The one here like I said linked me to an explanation that said basically use a good organic soil that if done correctly doesn't need anything added and then add the foliar and drench and you are golden. So that didn't really help but maybe I need to keep on digging for where it all boils up a few more pages in but that was on like page 100 sumtin...

I have read about doing HB in other plants and I understand the concept. I have read up and almost bought the stuff to test the levels of my soils and plants. I want to see someone show how they are doing it themselves. Maybe one can't becasue it takes the kind of equipment you can't fit in your garage? I don't know. I like to keep it simple and that drives a lot of my decisions.

I know it will take a lot of reading so I am I willing to sit through a well written journal that explains the steps to making the sauce and application and all that. I just want some place to start. Preferably a journal that documents a grow with the necessary details to replicate it myself.

There are two ways to grow High Brix:

1. Get a soil test and follow the recommendations from the lab. You can get a soil test through me or through the lab....same price, except they don't do cannabis soil fertility, I do.

2. Skip the soil test and buy the products and amendments from me for the same or lower price as you can get them from a fertilizer broker.

The ingredients for ProMix HP are:

Carbonized Limestone, Soft Rock Phosphate, biochar, Eden, Kelp meal, ammonium sulfate, epsom salt, copper sulfate, 20 mule team borax, myco maybe something else I'm forgetting off the top of my head.

The foliar sprays have liquid fish, phosphoric acid, several salts depending on the spray, PGR's from kelp, and dextrose, depending on the spray.

Drenches: Calcium nitrate, cold water fish hydrolysate, trace elements, ammonium sulfate, ammonium phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, humic acid, liquid humates, myco.

If you want the exact chemical makeup and manufacturing process, you'll have to pay for it or steal it. The ingredients aren't secret, but the exact amounts, etc. are.

If you want the exact recipe for the broadcast, it's 60.00. I can also sell you the raw materials so you can make your own for decades to come. Or, you could buy smaller amounts from me at a good price and not buy 50 lb bags of everything.

I've spent tons of money and thousands of hours researching and I've created something that allows brand new growers---who stick to simple instructions and don't try to emulate people who have been using it for years----to produce stunning produce on their first try.

As a "base soil" my system has all kinds of potential by adding small amounts of organic ingredients to tweak flavor profiles, etc.

High Brix soil is based on hard numbers from special soil tests. Not exclusive tests, but special ones that aren't used by Corporate farmers, most universities, etc. The amendments are designed to bring certain ratios of major and minor elements into a place where microbial action in the soil is maximized. This isn't speculation, it's real and there is a great deal of research that backs it up.

Your chances of stumbling onto a truly high brix soil are small. On the other hand, I can produce it all day long. The plants like it. People who smoke it like it. It's different and unusually good.

I think I answered your questions and then a few more perhaps?

 

[Doc Bud]

Subbed...
Curious to see what comes out of this conversation. Fwiw- about a year ago I put in a fair amount of time sniffing around trying to find out about the HB kit as well. Admittedly my search was a bit half-assed. I was just curious. Eventually I broke down and asked someone to tell me what 'the kit' was, which I kept reading mentioned, and where to buy it. What I was looking for at that time was something super basic
like:
-A super bare bones explanation of what 'the kit' is.
Where to get it
How to use it.

I did find lots of other info. And I did learn a bunch of stuff about brix. Probably the obvious explanations were right in front of me but the waters had been muddied by hundreds and hundreds of pages of idiots like me constantly wandering in asking stupid questions.

The kit is:

amendments, drenches, foliar sprays, myco, rock powders.

You get it from me. Easy. Direction are linked to in my signature.

 

[Papageno]

Oh No no no...I am not questioning HB. HB is totally proven on many many plants. That is why I have been spending so many hours on here trying to find something. There is a ton written on it going back for a long time out there on the web. I just can't find anyone to explain how they are doing it for cannabis. I was convinced to try it a long time ago. I just can't ... I don't know how.

 

[Doc Bud]

Oh No no no...I am not questioning HB. HB is totally proven on many many plants. That is why I have been spending so many hours on here trying to find something. There is a ton written on it going back for a long time out there on the web. I just can't find anyone to explain how they are doing it for cannabis. I was convinced to try it a long time ago. I just can't ... I don't know how.

Well, the easiest way is to get a kit. I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm promoting myself, but the single, entire reason I say it is because it is the only item of its kind.

It's designed for our favorite crop. It's inexpensive. Great product support....and Oh! Did I mention it's the only truly high brix kit out there?

You get kits through me, cuz I'm the guy who makes them.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks for the reply Doc Bud. I have figured some of those questions out in the last year.

Just now I followed the most obvious looking link in your signature- which got me to your 'in the lab' thread, which I've skimmed through before.
Looks like I'll have to break down sometime 'when I have time' and read the whole thing, by which time I'm sure I'll have learned a lot. Problem is, these days I barely have time to read my own journal.

I still don't see that 'overview for dummies' that I think it may need. The results of the kit/HB method are certainly not in dispute.

 

[Papageno]

And I am fine if the answer is we don't know how to make the drenches and sprays. If that is the case then I will go off and figure this out. I was just hoping someone here knew.

I don't mind the work. I figured this all out before there was an internet to talk about it on. I think I can figure it out now.


It isn't about the money or buying stuff. I am an engineer and no kids. I have money.

I want to know what it takes to make it. I am curious about the stuff. Just like with Advanced Nutrients. I was intrigued and went off and figured out how to make there best stuff.

For example. I know what it takes to run CO2 correctly. Since I have a small personal grow in a 5x5 tent in my garage it makes no sense on a mathematical level nor on a logistics level to manage that correctly to properly utilize CO2. So I choose not to waste money on a mushroom bag knowing what I know about the necessary PPMs and temps and evacuating at night and sealing the room...the list goes on for things I can't manage right in my grow so I wont do CO2. If I didn't understand how much the PPM and temps matter and how it is bad at night I might have actually gotten a mushroom pack for my small tent running a 400CFM fan LOL!!!!!


So before I go off making or using something I want to understand it.