First Grow!

Are you sure that burying the stem hurts the plant? I have had others tell me to do so. It adds more to your root growth. Their plants have been AMAZING! No issues at all. I do however, believe that the plant took a bit longer to grow after he "dug it deeper". A few days later and then it took off like any other.
 
hey guys wnna first off say thanks for chipping in your input is greatly appreciated.

I have slept on it and i think i am going to leave the topping of the one PP and just going to transplant into bigger homes over the weekend,i took your advice PeeJay and watered the plants in the manor you suggested and the difference in my ladies this morning is highly noticable the 3 tops of the PP i fimmed grew quite a bit (pics to follow) during lights out,unbeliveable !!
I was going to have the stem level with the top of the new pot's i'm putting them into i'm not going to bury the stems any deeper as the branches coming off the bottom of the main stem are already too close to the soil for my liking,i am going to do a search for scoring the roots as i have no idea how to.
That flushing method you use already looks like it is right up my street, less is more ;-) i'm deffo going to try that method as the last tip i picked up off you worked a treat,regarding the RO water you use,could i use mineral water or just ph'd water instead ? i have a few milk crates round as i use them to stand my bikes on to do repairs ;-) i keep lots of water in the grow tent i think there is around 45-50 litres in there at the same temp as the room at any one time.

SABO no i don't mind you asking questions here at all mate i've hi-jacked your journal enough ha ha ha :-) and besides i can take note of the answers :-)
 
SABO said:
Great info PeeJay, I just have a couple of questions & I don't think VG will mind if I ask them here, we've been trying to help each other out as much as possible.

Isn't topping considered more of a High Stress Technique?

Now if VG is going to flip in 2 weeks and re-pots into bigger pots like you suggested, would that necessarily increase the height of the plant during the stretch or would the plant concentrate more on spreading the roots out?

I have already contemplated a couple of things that I am going to do differently next go around (Thanks to your advice) & different soil and larger pots are definitely in the picture.
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Just my opinion and observations, SABO, but I don't think that topping is more high stress than other training methods. Plants don't really seem to mind it much. As I said, someone coined the term LST and it stuck. As a result inexperienced growers are nervous about FIM and LST. Once they try it and see for themselves it becomes "no big deal."

Roots will continue to grow in either a bigger or smaller pot. The problem is that in the smaller pot they grow more densely and circle instead of spreading out - that causes the feed/water to pour out the bottom of the container as I showed in your journal a couple of days ago. I don't know how the transplant effects stretch - I'd have to do some side by side comparisons. My guess is the transplanted plant would grow more in stretch than the untransplanted one. It just makes for a healthier environment for the plant. The main thing that is bad is that if the plant is root-bound throughout flower it is going to kill bud production later - airy small buds with reduced potency.

Mello136 said:
Are you sure that burying the stem hurts the plant? I have had others tell me to do so. It adds more to your root growth. Their plants have been AMAZING! No issues at all. I do however, believe that the plant took a bit longer to grow after he "dug it deeper". A few days later and then it took off like any other.
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You answered your own question, Mello. The plant slowed down when planted deeper! A seedling will take getting buried in stride better than an older plant with a woodier stem. Transplanting too deep is the #1 way that people kill plants in landscapes. It leads to disease, stunted growth, and watering problems. With seedlings you are better off keeping them short from the get-go or using other methods to support the small plant than burying the stem. People do bury the stem frequently, and it is far from harmless. The older and bigger the plant is when transplanted the more stress adding dirt around the stem will cause. Yeah, people do it often but transplating deeper than the original soil level is BAD.

There is some interesting discussion of this as well as photo's and experimentation regarding keeping seedlings short in my journal starting at post #331. PeeJay's Perpetual Organic Homebrewed Soil - Stealth Cabinet And Greenhouse Grow

virgingrower said:
hey guys wnna first off say thanks for chipping in your input is greatly appreciated.

I have slept on it and i think i am going to leave the topping of the one PP and just going to transplant into bigger homes over the weekend,i took your advice PeeJay and watered the plants in the manor you suggested and the difference in my ladies this morning is highly noticable the 3 tops of the PP i fimmed grew quite a bit (pics to follow) during lights out,unbeliveable !!
I was going to have the stem level with the top of the new pot's i'm putting them into i'm not going to bury the stems any deeper as the branches coming off the bottom of the main stem are already too close to the soil for my liking,i am going to do a search for scoring the roots as i have no idea how to.
That flushing method you use already looks like it is right up my street, less is more ;-) i'm deffo going to try that method as the last tip i picked up off you worked a treat,regarding the RO water you use,could i use mineral water or just ph'd water instead ? i have a few milk crates round as i use them to stand my bikes on to do repairs ;-) i keep lots of water in the grow tent i think there is around 45-50 litres in there at the same temp as the room at any one time.

SABO no i don't mind you asking questions here at all mate i've hi-jacked your journal enough ha ha ha :-) and besides i can take note of the answers :-)
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To score the roots, use a sharp utility knife and make three or four cuts down the side of the root mass ~ 1/4 inch deep from the top of the root mass to the bottom. Then use the knife to cut two slits in the root mass at the bottom of the plant. If you don't do that, the roots will not spread out into the larger container well due to the circling roots. I don't have pictures of that, but if you read about transplanting on any general gardening forum you'll find instructions. Best practice is to transplant before the roots start to bind up - but that isn't always possible.
 
Well I totally understand that it isn't harmless, honestly anything you do outside it's normal environment is never really harmless. As far as slowing things down for a few days isn't really an issue when your getting a bigger root mass. What I mean is instead of getting plant growth your getting root growth for a few days. I do agree that older plants shouldn't be buried though. Seem's a bit pointless since it is now wood and not stem. What is your method with dealing with super stretched seedlings? (due to low light)
 
Honestly Mello, I don't let them get that way in the first place! If it happened I'd just make some sort of support to hold the plant up until the stem thickened. As far as the "bigger root mass" thing it just ain't true! Yeah some new roots will grow from the buried stem in time, but it is not natural root growth and all soil plants end up filling up the container with roots anyway. You don't have to bury stem to fill a pot with roots.

Next time you sprout seeds burry the stem on one and not on another and see for yourself.
 
thanks PeeJay top man !! :Namaste: i will deffo go and read up on transplanting before i even attempt it :-)

Mello can you put the light closer to the seedlings so you dont get as much stretch. when mine were youger many moons ago (seems that way) i started mine with a 600w hps bulb had it around 2 foot away from the top of the seedlings and i thought they would stretch quite alot but they didn't and about 2 weeks into my grow got talking to SABO and he suggested a mh bulb,done some reaserch then went and bought one now they are under a 400w mh lamp and they love it beating down on them ! lol
 
Great info PeeJay,

It totally makes sense now about transplanting and scoring. I guess if the plant is root bound,, you not only have a hard time with even watering, but also the roots have major problems getting air. Lack of air and water promotes an unhealthy environment, which probably leads to the plant having problems taking up nutrients too boot.

I have 5 weeks left, I think it's too late (???) to re-pot in my case, but the watering/flushing technique should get me through.

Thanks for all of your great input as usual.
 
No, don't transplant in flower, SABO. You can also water the plants occasionally using the flushing method but add nutes to the water. They will get a big deep drink and perk-up like crazy.

Oh, I forgot one of Virg's questions. For the flush you want to use water with the lowest PPM you can. I get mine from a vending machine at the store. Using my own 5 gallon container it cost about $1.50 for 5 gallons of RO water. Distilled water would be great, too.
 
PeeJay said:
No, don't transplant in flower, SABO. You can also water the plants occasionally using the flushing method but add nutes to the water. They will get a big deep drink and perk-up like crazy.
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I won't PeeJay, they are getting some pretty nutes 10-30-20 right at 3/4's. Next week they go to a full dose and the week after I'll give them that long drink as described above.
 
Well I'm not getting any stretch. My plant is about 2.5 in tall and has it's second set of leaves already. What I was saying was that I have been a part of many grows and never have I encountered any problems with digging the stem in some more when the sprouts did a super stretch. It need be done delicately of course. They grow to be wonderful plants. I think it shouldn't be dismissed totally that's all. You'll get different results with different strains and etc. If you looking for a short stocky bushy plant AND you made the mistake of leaving the lights to far (got stretched) I say dig it deeper BEFORE it get's woody. Other than that don't even try. I love your method of flushing by the way. I'll be follow that as soon as it's time. Thanks for the idea.
 
Well Mello, all I have to say is that experimenting with seedlings is fast and cheap if you have some seeds that didn't cost a fortune. No need to take my word on adding dirt around the stem. Pop a couple of seeds, add dirt around the stem of some and leave others alone. Watch what happens. I think you'll be surprised by how drastically it stalls the plant. I look forward to seeing your results if you try it.
 
Sure will PeeJay, I'll try on the next set of seeds. I have 4 more ready to go. We'll start a thread just for that experiment so we can help others as well. You down?
 
PeeJay said:
Pop a couple of seeds, add dirt around the stem of some and leave others alone. Watch what happens. I think you'll be surprised by how drastically it stalls the plant. I look forward to seeing your results if you try it.
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I had to do it due to low light conditions .. if you look in my journal at day 10, day 11 (page 1), you see the before and after situation. It did not stall them at all. One died due to nuteburn, but that's another story :p

Perhaps it depends on when you do it ..
 
@PlanetJ Exactly what I was saying. I don't believe that you should dismiss the method completely, because it works in many many instances. Granted in certain situations it should be dismissed, due to doing it late in veg and the stem is then a stock.
 
SABO said:
Why in the heck start an experiment? Keep them from stretching from the beginning. Problem solved.
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I think that is THE best solution ever!
 
PeeJay said:
Well Mello, all I have to say is that experimenting with seedlings is fast and cheap if you have some seeds that didn't cost a fortune. No need to take my word on adding dirt around the stem. Pop a couple of seeds, add dirt around the stem of some and leave others alone. Watch what happens. I think you'll be surprised by how drastically it stalls the plant. I look forward to seeing your results if you try it.
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I totally agree with this. One thing you don't want on an expensive seed is stem root. Packing dirt/soil around the stem is conducive to stem rot. Me seedlings didn't stretch like the leaning "Tower of Pisa", so I wasn't confronted with the situation, but if it did happen, there are better ways to support the seedling than by piling dirt around it.

It's the same as when so-called gardners put mulch around their trees, they rake it up to the trunk. Wrong! Pull the mulch away and take a good look at the bark, lots of insects, fungus and other nasty things going on in there.
 
Mello136 said:
Sure will PeeJay, I'll try on the next set of seeds. I have 4 more ready to go. We'll start a thread just for that experiment so we can help others as well. You down?
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I threw the link to my journal up and gave a post #. A couple of other members Cannafan, BAR and myself already did a bunch of seedling experiments - don't really need to do any more. I'm just saying if you aren't sure about adding soil around the stem try it and see.

It was interesting to do all the experiments we did - many are in Cannafan's journal, too. Lot's of growers who get really good results chimed in. It was fun. There are time lapse videos, seedling growth progression demos, light height and spectrum info, seed depth observations, discussions about seedling mediums, etc. To get all the information you have to jump around and look at the other's journals, too. Canna and I talked about condensing everything into one cohesive seedling in soil blog - but never got around to doing it.
 
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