First Grow Ever - Humboldt Dream 2024

cbdhemp808 said:
Only if the lightening was close enough to the plants.
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The flash from lightning, even fairly distant is brighter than any camera flash.
I get multiple storms throughout the outdoor season here, with plenty of lightning striking pretty close.
It's never caused a problem.
It takes more than a fraction of a second of light to reset the plant's hormones.
 
Melville Hobbes said:
The flash from lightning, even fairly distant is brighter than any camera flash.
I get multiple storms throughout the outdoor season here, with plenty of lightning striking pretty close.
It's never caused a problem.
It takes more than a fraction of a second of light to reset the plant's hormones.
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Hmm, I don't think that's true. In terms of the number of photons being emitted, 1 second is like an eternity. I think the science has been done on this, but I'd have to look it up. The experts say only a flash is needed. Any part of the plant that doesn't get the flash won't be affected.

What is true for sure, however, is that you'd need a close-by lightening storm every night in order to keep plants in veg. If you got a couple storms during flower, it wouldn't be enough to cause any trouble.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Hmm, I don't think that's true. In terms of the number of photos being emitted, 1 second is like an eternity. I think the science has been done on this, but I'd have to look it up. The experts say only a flash is needed. Any part of the plant that doesn't get the flash won't be affected.

What is true for sure, however, is that you'd need a close-by lightening storm every night in order to keep plants in veg. If you got a couple storms during flower, it wouldn't be enough to cause any trouble.
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As I understand it it's a function of both intensity and duration, not either or.
An entire night's light from a full moon doesn't do it, and a fraction of a second of light isn't going to be enough to kick-start photosynthesis, so I don't see how the flash from a camera, or even nightly lightning storms could break nocturnal dormancy, let alone reset a hormonal process.
 
Melville Hobbes said:
As I understand it it's a function of both intensity and duration, not either or.
An entire night's light from a full moon doesn't do it, and a fraction of a second of light isn't going to be enough to kick-start photosynthesis, so I don't see how the flash from a camera, or even nightly lightning storms could break nocturnal dormancy, let alone reset a hormonal process.
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Here you go...

"In all bacterial and plant phytochromes known so far, the relatively slow Pr photoreaction takes place within ∼5–100 ps as opposed to the relatively fast Pfr photoreaction which occurs on the timescale of a few picoseconds..." [ source ]

One picosecond is a trillionth of a second.

Phytochrome is a photoreceptor pigment in the leaves of the plants, inside the cells of the leaf. When a flash of light hits the leaf, one form of the phytochrome is convert to another form. For flowering to occur, successive long nights must happen for Pr to build up. A flash of light causes Pr to be converted back into Pfr. In the above article, I think they mean the conversion of Pr to Pfr takes between ~5 and 100 ps.

I knew it was fast... didn't think it was THAT fast! 🤣

EDIT: Yep... multiple sources confirm... Pr is immediately converted to Pfr, when exposed to a specific wavelength of red light (~667 nm), which is part of a full-spectrum light source, such as the sun or a full-spectrum bulb. This is why green light has no effect.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Here you go...

"In all bacterial and plant phytochromes known so far, the relatively slow Pr photoreaction takes place within ∼5–100 ps as opposed to the relatively fast Pfr photoreaction which occurs on the timescale of a few picoseconds..." [ source ]

One picosecond is a trillionth of a second.

Phytochrome is a photoreceptor pigment in the leaves of the plants, inside the cells of the leaf. When a flash of light hits the leaf, one form of the phytochrome is convert to another form. For flowering to occur, successive long nights must happen for Pr to build up. A flash of light causes Pr to be converted back into Pfr. In the above article, I think they mean the conversion of Pr to Pfr takes between ~5 and 100 ps.

I knew it was fast... didn't think it was THAT fast! 🤣

EDIT: Yep... multiple sources confirm... Pr is immediately converted to Pfr, when exposed to a specific wavelength of red light (~667 nm), which is part of a full-spectrum light source, such as the sun or a full-spectrum bulb. This is why green light has no effect.
Click to expand...
So green lights it is then no more photo flashes. Thanks for settling this.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Here you go...

"In all bacterial and plant phytochromes known so far, the relatively slow Pr photoreaction takes place within ∼5–100 ps as opposed to the relatively fast Pfr photoreaction which occurs on the timescale of a few picoseconds..." [ source ]

One picosecond is a trillionth of a second.

Phytochrome is a photoreceptor pigment in the leaves of the plants, inside the cells of the leaf. When a flash of light hits the leaf, one form of the phytochrome is convert to another form. For flowering to occur, successive long nights must happen for Pr to build up. A flash of light causes Pr to be converted back into Pfr. In the above article, I think they mean the conversion of Pr to Pfr takes between ~5 and 100 ps.

I knew it was fast... didn't think it was THAT fast! 🤣
Click to expand...
Then in the gas lighting technique, keeping plants in veg should be as easy as giving them a few bright flashes of light during the dark period.
Except it's not.
I'm not saying your source is wrong about how fast the reaction occurs, but applying lab results to real world situations requires a full grasp of the variables at play.
A lot of that article was above my head, but they were using a laser on samples a few cells thick.
Applying those results to a camera flash on a plant isn't going to be so simple.
 
Melville Hobbes said:
Then in the gas lighting technique, keeping plants in veg should be as easy as giving them a few bright flashes of light during the dark period.
Except it's not.
I'm not saying your source is wrong about how fast the reaction occurs, but applying lab results to real world situations requires a full grasp of the variables at play.
A lot of that article was above my head, but they were using a laser on samples a few cells thick.
Applying those results to a camera flash on a plant isn't going to be so simple.
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I don't think the flash will have profound effects at all but I'm sure the flash stresses the plant out in some way. Even though it's not noticeable by the naked eye I'm sure on a chemical level it's making a difference. Anytime in chemistry when there is a action you will get a reaction.
 
Melville Hobbes said:
Then in the gas lighting technique, keeping plants in veg should be as easy as giving them a few bright flashes of light during the dark period. Except it's not.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah it is. That's the technique... "night interruption" lighting. The trick is that the whole plant must receive the light. Any part of the plant that doesn't receive the light in sufficient intensity will tend to flower. I seen it with me own eyes.

But nobody, including myself, has flash bulbs on a timer at night. I use 13w LED bulbs on a digital timer, and they go on at midnight, 2am, and 4am, for a few minutes each. Technically, it only needs to be a minute (the resolution of the digital timer), and only once in the middle of the night.

Melville Hobbes said:
I'm not saying your source is wrong about how fast the reaction occurs, but applying lab results to real world situations requires a full grasp of the variables at play.
A lot of that article was above my head, but they were using a laser on samples a few cells thick.
Applying those results to a camera flash on a plant isn't going to be so simple.
Click to expand...
Multiple sources now are saying that the transition of Pr to Pfr is immediate. And they are not talking about lasers.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Oh yeah it is. That's the technique... "night interruption" lighting. The trick is that the whole plant must receive the light. Any part of the plant that doesn't receive the light in sufficient intensity will tend to flower. I seen it with me own eyes.

But nobody, including myself, has flash bulbs on a timer at night. I use 13w LED bulbs on a digital timer, and they go on at midnight, 2am, and 4am, for a few minutes each. Technically, it only needs to be a minute (the resolution of the digital timer), and only once in the middle of the night.


Multiple sources now are saying that the transition of Pr to Pfr is immediate. And they are not talking about lasers.
Click to expand...
Okay. Sure.
We've taken up enough space here discussing this.
Sorry for the highjack @StarkRaven
 
Thanks for the debate... we all learned something.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Oh yeah it is. That's the technique... "night interruption" lighting. The trick is that the whole plant must receive the light. Any part of the plant that doesn't receive the light in sufficient intensity will tend to flower. I seen it with me own eyes.

But nobody, including myself, has flash bulbs on a timer at night. I use 13w LED bulbs on a digital timer, and they go on at midnight, 2am, and 4am, for a few minutes each. Technically, it only needs to be a minute (the resolution of the digital timer), and only once in the middle of the night.


Multiple sources now are saying that the transition of Pr to Pfr is immediate. And they are not talking about lasers.
Click to expand...
Yeah I have seen a plant half veg half flower didn't know it was from light.
 
cbdhemp808 said:
This is why green light has no effect.
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Only very specific wavelengths of green light are not perceived by the plants, so what's green to you might not be to them. My advice is don't go poking around your plants at night except by echolocation. :)
 
Melville Hobbes said:
If that we true a single thunderstorm would screw entire cities over.
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So just my 2 cents.. haha

First, Great information about photon levels and light duration on the plants. A lot of information I had lacked before, thank you.

I find that lab results and life results offer different results often. In this case, I have the life results and experience of a few hundred farms in Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity county with all sorts of different scales and environments. Light flashes below 30 minutes a night will not turn your plants. It’s common practice to headlamp spray for 30-60 minutes at night (obviously passing light over plants as you spray, not keeping light on all plants entire duration)
I also know of several farms with roadside greenhouses and no black out measures, meaning they have vehicles passing with lights going through the greenhouses several times a night.
There seems to be a lot of scare information, and maybe that is the case for plants used to an indoor environment where ‘night time’ means truly zero photo level, where as plants accustomed to outdoor environments have adapted to accepting low levels of photons at night without sending the chemical signal to change up sex or re veg. It’s an environment used to bright night sky’s from the sun photons reflecting off the moon and into the stars giving the forest its magic night glow.

Just my 2 cents and experience, controlled studies may not reflect all real life environments. Don’t stress on hitting your plant with a bright headlamp a few minutes a night.
 
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