First CFL Grow Using 30 Watt CFLs

[Green Knight]

Hey dp; the sludge in the filter will contain a load of organic matter (the fish shit basically) and a load of nitrifying bacteria which are responsible for converting the ammonia in the crap to nitrites and then to nitrates. The plants won't absorb the shit itself, just the nitrates created as a result of the bacterial breakdown of the fish poo, so the sludge 'tea' should make a pretty good fertiliser and your buds won't taste of anything other than nice buds - the plant's roots can't absorb the crap, just the basic organic molecules its broken down to. It's the basis for aquaponics, where fish live in the water the plant's roots are suspended in, and it's the nitrates created from the fish waste that feed the plants. The filter sludge will just be a far more concentrated form so it should be a good regular source of nice organic fertiliser for you

 

[GigaGrew]

in that case maybe its more effective to NOT filter the fish tank, but swap out the unfiltered water more often so the tank stays clean.

if feeding with fish water works, then you would need lots of it to do a full grow, i would even consider a constant input/output from the tank

 

[Green Knight]

Forgot to say that whilst it won't hurt your plants from anything bad, it will be quite concentrated fertiliser so any damage would be through over-fertilisation and nute burn, so you may want to try a small amount and build it up with time just to be safe. You could theoretically use the sludge like a manure and put a layer of it on top of your soil and just dig it in slightly through the top couple of inches using a fork. The bacteria will keep breaking it down and creating nitrates and every time you water those will be taken down through the pot and absorbed by the roots.

 

[Green Knight]

in that case maybe its more effective to NOT filter the fish tank, but swap out the unfiltered water more often so the tank stays clean.

if feeding with fish water works, then you would need lots of it to do a full grow, i would even consider a constant input/output from the tank

For the plants that might be ok but I'm not sure the fish would like it unfortunately as the tank needs to develop an equilibrium and changing the water too often will disrupt this - the bacteria colonise the filters and break the ammonia down. High levels of ammonia kills the fish and if the bacteria aren't there to convert it to nitrates then the fish suffer unfortunately

 

[fish cake]

Hey dp; the sludge in the filter will contain a load of organic matter (the fish shit basically) and a load of nitrifying bacteria which are responsible for converting the ammonia in the crap to nitrites and then to nitrates. The plants won't absorb the shit itself, just the nitrates created as a result of the bacterial breakdown of the fish poo, so the sludge 'tea' should make a pretty good fertiliser and your buds won't taste of anything other than nice buds - the plant's roots can't absorb the crap, just the basic organic molecules its broken down to. It's the basis for aquaponics, where fish live in the water the plant's roots are suspended in, and it's the nitrates created from the fish waste that feed the plants. The filter sludge will just be a far more concentrated form so it should be a good regular source of nice organic fertiliser for you

you are right about that but the nitrites breed anarobic bacteria wich is an oxegen eater. so if kept moist and dark I wonder if it could cause the roots to become starved. I know that this is pretty much reat moss in the making but it may be to harsh in the begining.
just my 2cents or pence

 

[fish cake]

For the plants that might be ok but I'm not sure the fish would like it unfortunately as the tank needs to develop an equilibrium and changing the water too often will disrupt this - the bacteria colonise the filters and break the ammonia down. High levels of ammonia kills the fish and if the bacteria aren't there to convert it to nitrates then the fish suffer unfortunately

I was just about to say what you just said.
have a rep

 

[Green Knight]

I was just about to say what you just said.
have a rep

Ha ha; great minds and all that - thank you for the reps, much appreciated

Do you think the anaerobes would be that much of a problem? If the sludge were just forked in to the top couple of inches of soil I'm thinking the anaerobic bacteria may not penetrate too deep as the source of their nitrites will be at the top of the pot, and watering will wash the nitrates they create down through the soil. Some of the nitrites would also be washed down but I'm thinking this could be minimal and the bacteria would stay where their greatest food source is, which would essentially be the sludge at the top of the pot. This might reduce the risk of deoxygenating the roots too drastically. If you were to thoroughly mix the sludge throughout the soil it might be more of a problem though

 

[fish cake]

you have a good point and I think it would be ok if you dried it and then mix the mulm into the soil.
but if the anerobic didnt hurt the plant maybe it would be too hot like you said before.

 

[Green Knight]

Yeah, completely agree; definitely worth erring on the side of caution as it would be easy to burn your plants, and it would be difficult to flush as the source of any problem is just gonna sit there and not go away, it will just keep generating nutes. Probably well worth using a small amount initially to avoid burning

 

[GigaGrew]

For the plants that might be ok but I'm not sure the fish would like it unfortunately as the tank needs to develop an equilibrium and changing the water too often will disrupt this - the bacteria colonise the filters and break the ammonia down. High levels of ammonia kills the fish and if the bacteria aren't there to convert it to nitrates then the fish suffer unfortunately

firstly that seems a bit of an oxymoron, if the water is on a constant change, the amonia wouldnt build up in the first place, lol.

but in all seriousness. learning how much water can be replaced per day without disrupting the fishies IS the experiment.

if one was going to do this properly, then it would be a drip system. ie 1 drip in your tank = 1 drip in a plant down the line.

it will take some serious testing to balance this lot in an automated fashion.

or you could do it manually and have to constantly scrape filters and make teas and drain tanks and rebalance them ad infinitum

i prefer the idea of working out how slow/fast water needs to be dripped into an unfiltered tank in order to keep it clean, then work everything else out from that foundation

 

[fish cake]

oh its doable gig they do it all the time aqua culture that is.
Its just it takes a large area to make a susstaining eco system.
the balance on such a small scale is very hard to achieve almost impossible to make it cost effective.

 

[GigaGrew]

who is talking small scale?
lol just kidding,

you know me. unlimited imagination, prohibitive budget =/

 

[Green Knight]

firstly that seems a bit of an oxymoron, if the water is on a constant change, the amonia wouldnt build up in the first place, lol.

Yes, but it would depend on how many fish you had first of all, and the size of the tank, and for the water to be of any benefit to plants it would need to build up the levels of fish waste and have a stable nitrate cycle in place to get the ammonia converted to nitrates, which wouldn't happen if you were changing the water too regularly - whilst the ammonia wouldn't get a chance to build up neither would any beneficial bacteria or any kind of ecosystem and the fish would die pretty quick.

It's the stable ecosystem as fish cake pointed out that's key, and ponds and tanks take around 6 weeks from a water change to fully restore their balance so you'd be fighting a constant battle whilst pouring water that contained minimal nutrients on your plants.

 

[GigaGrew]

6 weeks till balance.. how long till toxic, 12 weeks?

 

[GigaGrew]

by my thinking if it takes 6 weeks to reach the same level as pre flush, then you could swap out the water at a rate of around 2.38% of volume per day and maintain equilibrium.

someone wanna check my figures? thats if im even making any sense, lol

if it does make sence then it would seem a faster flow would reduce efficacy and a slower flow would creat2 toxicity. right? lol

 

[miwa]

Well...i don't have any fish..i got fish nutes..think i'll try some in a hydro...DP...the difference between those two plants are amazing..if i were you i would be thinking about getting a patent...more money...more money...

 

[JamesTheGreen]

Re: First CFL Grow Using 30 Watt CFLs/YEPP SEEDS FALL OUT FURST bGIG!!!

The calyxes split open, and on a lot of occasions, the seeds just Fall right On Out!!! There are always exceptions of course, but if the Seeds are left too long, out they Come!!! Sometimes the seeds that are in the middle of the Buds, just remain there, because that is where they are Trapped. But the ones that are on the outside of the BUDS, usually come a rolling OUT. That is wshy i try to Harvest them, when the Calyxes are just about ready to split, which is very easy to tell, as the calyxes begin to Split Down the Center. When they get like this, HARVEST ASAP!!! And set the Kolas,or the whole Plant, if it is small one, just for seeding, onto a Large Tray, or plate of some kind, let Dry, and remove the SEEDS!!! EASY as PIE!!!

I have a Shitload of seeds to harvest that are Drying, as well as ones on Plants that are still Alive, the ones on the alive Plants are NO WHERE NEAR BEING READY, which means I have to leave the seeded KOLAS on while I Harvest the rest of the Plant. No Biggie, an every Year Thing!!! Take Care All. SINCERELY JAMESTHEGREEN. PS, I may post some more Photos Tonight, I got up in the ladder for some of Them!!! Well either tonight or in the AM, I am not sure which??? I think I have been Posting an inordinate amount of Pictures as of Late, so maybe Tomorrow, I do not Know!!!

 

[spring2012]

DP,
Glad to see the girls looking healthy. Good deal with the tank water. What a difference! I will get the info on those auto seeds for ya. I think the Durty Dragon is on hold, not sure. Those buds looked damn good didn't they?

 

[Green Knight]

6 weeks till balance.. how long till toxic, 12 weeks?

If you've got a good filter that supports the maintenance of the nitrifying bacteria (ie it contains something like Kaldnes biomedia) it shouldn't ever get toxic because as the fish generate the ammonia the bacteria are breaking it down to nitrates and the pond or tank is in equilibrium. It just takes time for it to reach this equilibrium, but once there it should remain stable unless something upsets it. If it's a pond you never change the water, but if it's a fish tank you don't want algae to build up in the tank and you need to keep the tank clean or it looks unsightly which is why you change the water every now and again, but you don't change all the water; you leave 30-50% to 'seed' the new water and speed the time up for the equilibrium to be reached again.

 

[GigaGrew]

If you've got a good filter that supports the maintenance of the nitrifying bacteria (ie it contains something like Kaldnes biomedia) it shouldn't ever get toxic because as the fish generate the ammonia the bacteria are breaking it down to nitrates and the pond or tank is in equilibrium. It just takes time for it to reach this equilibrium, but once there it should remain stable unless something upsets it. If it's a pond you never change the water, but if it's a fish tank you don't want algae to build up in the tank and you need to keep the tank clean or it looks unsightly which is why you change the water every now and again, but you don't change all the water; you leave 30-50% to 'seed' the new water and speed the time up for the equilibrium to be reached again.

i understand, but im talking about NOT filtering the water, and having a thru flow of around 2.38%. rather like a lake with a stream in and a stream out. nitrate/amonia is the easiest to control by this method, the bit that needs some more data is things like breeding rates of algae aand bacteria at this kind of flow rate, IE is it slow enough for the bacteria to breed faster than it can be diluted and the opposite for algae is the flow fast enough to prevent build up?

i know its a bit outside the box, but thats me im afraid, i dont do things the normal way...especially if the normal way means having to keep a diary of jobs that need doing...if there is a way to automate something...i will find it