Fire Safety: How do you prevent a disaster?

[stealthed-up]

IP - Ingress protection has nothing to do with this if it was a result of thermal runaway @bluter

What is Thermal Runaway?​

All semiconductors, including LEDs, generate heat as a by-product of their operation. The more electrical current the device uses, the greater the amount of heat that needs to be dissipated. Provided there is adequate thermal management, the device will not exceed its maximum operating temperature.
If the provisions to remove heat are insufficient, overheating will occur. When this happens, the ability to conduct electricity increases, generating even more heat. The increased heat output results in an even higher temperature, increasing the ability to conduct current still further. This process, known as thermal runaway, will continue until the device self-destructs.

How to Avoid Thermal Runaway​

Thermal runaway is controlled with the use of a constant current LED driver.

From What is and How to Avoid Thermal Runaway

@Bill284 was your box fan the only source of extraction? Do you have the model of the led fixture you bought ?

 

[Bill284]

IP - Ingress protection has nothing to do with this if it was a result of thermal runaway @bluter

What is Thermal Runaway?​

All semiconductors, including LEDs, generate heat as a by-product of their operation. The more electrical current the device uses, the greater the amount of heat that needs to be dissipated. Provided there is adequate thermal management, the device will not exceed its maximum operating temperature.
If the provisions to remove heat are insufficient, overheating will occur. When this happens, the ability to conduct electricity increases, generating even more heat. The increased heat output results in an even higher temperature, increasing the ability to conduct current still further. This process, known as thermal runaway, will continue until the device self-destructs.

How to Avoid Thermal Runaway​

Thermal runaway is controlled with the use of a constant current LED driver.

From What is and How to Avoid Thermal Runaway

@Bill284 was your box fan the only source of extraction? Do you have the model of the led fixture you bought ?

Hey @stealthed-up thanks for the info.
There was a carbon filter with a Turbo fan discharged directly outside.
And there was a fan pushing fresh air into the room.
So air exchange was constant in there.
The light was a bran new official weegrow qb-2000.

WEEGrow Veg Room By Bill284

I'd like to thank @OfficialWEEGrow for sponsoring my veg room.

www.420magazine.com

Stay safe.
Bill

 

[stealthed-up]

Hey @stealthed-up thanks for the info.
There was a carbon filter with a Turbo fan discharged directly outside.
And there was a fan pushing fresh air into the room.
So air exchange was constant in there.
The light was a bran new official weegrow qb-2000.

WEEGrow Veg Room By Bill284

I'd like to thank @OfficialWEEGrow for sponsoring my veg room.

www.420magazine.com

Stay safe.
Bill

That was a fresh carbon filter with good airflow passing through right ? Meanwell make really good products its unlikely that it was the driver, i know that form factor and casing it should have been 100% a CC driver. 20 000 lumens for 200 watts seems inefficient for LM301B's even though they have added 660 and 760nm led chips. Do you remember if that driver had a dim option ? I cannot even get onto their website @ weegrow-grow-light-qb-2000 . Im leaning more towards 1. Bad quality control on the LED's soldering or the board 2. Insufficient wiring size / incorrectly wired. 3. Bottom of the pile lm301b's or fake lm301b's. 4. If the driver had a potentiometer to change the amp range or voltage range, it was set incorrectly. Lots of possibilities. Apologies for what happened but thank you for making this post. As you mentioned in previous posts the first thing you saw was the fixture on fire, i take it nothing else would have fallen on top of it?

 

[Bill284]

That was a fresh carbon filter with good airflow passing through right ? Meanwell make really good products its unlikely that it was the driver, i know that form factor and casing it should have been 100% a CC driver. 20 000 lumens for 200 watts seems inefficient for LM301B's even though they have added 660 and 760nm led chips. Do you remember if that driver had a dim option ? I cannot even get onto their website @ weegrow-grow-light-qb-2000 . Im leaning more towards 1. Bad quality control on the LED's soldering or the board 2. Insufficient wiring size / incorrectly wired. 3. Bottom of the pile lm301b's or fake lm301b's. 4. If the driver had a potentiometer to change the amp range or voltage range, it was set incorrectly. Lots of possibilities. Apologies for what happened but thank you for making this post. As you mentioned in previous posts the first thing you saw was the fixture on fire, i take it nothing else would have fallen on top of it?

No there was nothing above to fall until it caught fire.
Yes it was able to control the intensity with a dimmer.
I had it set as low as possible.
It was just prior to moving and I didn't want the mothers growing much before I was supposed to move them.
They sent me a message saying the driver was made by another company and they would check for issues with them.
Then they ghosted me.
Won't reply so they have an issue and they know it I'm sure.
Thanks again.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[bluter]

IP - Ingress protection has nothing to do with this if it was a result of thermal runaway @bluter

​

ip 65 drivers and higher are built with the internal fusing. it is a fail safe for ingress protection but also works in other situations if a run away draw occurs.


edit : it might be ip 67. i've been out of the industry a couple years.

edit more : that is a great explanation of a run away draw.

 

[bluter]

That was a fresh carbon filter with good airflow passing through right ? Meanwell make really good products its unlikely that it was the driver, i know that form factor and casing it should have been 100% a CC driver. 20 000 lumens for 200 watts seems inefficient for LM301B's even though they have added 660 and 760nm led chips. Do you remember if that driver had a dim option ? I cannot even get onto their website @ weegrow-grow-light-qb-2000 . Im leaning more towards 1. Bad quality control on the LED's soldering or the board 2. Insufficient wiring size / incorrectly wired. 3. Bottom of the pile lm301b's or fake lm301b's. 4. If the driver had a potentiometer to change the amp range or voltage range, it was set incorrectly. Lots of possibilities. Apologies for what happened but thank you for making this post. As you mentioned in previous posts the first thing you saw was the fixture on fire, i take it nothing else would have fallen on top of it?

it was a kitten brand. they did not use any known brand name components.

 

[stealthed-up]

ip 65 drivers and higher are built with the internal fusing. it is a fail safe for ingress protection but also works in other situations if a run away draw occurs.


edit : it might be ip 67. i've been out of the industry a couple years.

edit more : that is a great explanation of a run away draw.

Does not really make sense to me. If its IP protected or not it should still have internal fusing.

No there was nothing above to fall until it caught fire.
Yes it was able to control the intensity with a dimmer.
I had it set as low as possible.
It was just prior to moving and I didn't want the mothers growing much before I was supposed to move them.
They sent me a message saying the driver was made by another company and they would check for issues with them.
Then they ghosted me.
Won't reply so they have an issue and they know it I'm sure.
Thanks again.
Stay safe.
Bill

Wow , amazing how companies like that get away with things like this, i mean who even certified that light? immense havoc they caused you and all that material,shipping and time gone to waste. Who knows who else is running that setup without reading this....

You have my sympathy but let this be a lesson to all, apply this throughout your life because there are shit products everywhere that could cause you big problems or even death.

 

[ppm Charlie]

Hey @013 Hope you are well my friend.
Good point.
I had insulated flex pipe on my ac to help wit the heat.
4" discharge into a 6" flex pipe.
Helped unit and tent stay cooler.
Exhaust on ac units can get hot A.F.
Your right to be careful with venting.
Another thing to be careful of, thanks.
Stay safe.
Bill

The Air Diffusion Council’s (ADC) publication Flexible Duct Performance & Installation Standards. This publication tells you more than you ever wanted to know about the subject, however, Chapter Four is particular interesting as it details the standard installation practices for different forms of flexible duct work and gives plenty of good diagrams of best practices.


The newest volume of this ADC publication is “pay-portal-ed” but I found Volume 4 downloadable online here:

Home - A-Action Realty Inspection Services, LLC

A-Action Realty Inspection Services performs residential inspections and commercial inspections in Dallas, Plano, Frisco, McKinney, and the surrounding areas.

a-actionhomeinspection.com

It is worth a look and will get you where you need to be regarding correct performance for air handling in ducts and make your duct work installation neat and successful.

 

[Bill284]

The Air Diffusion Council’s (ADC) publication Flexible Duct Performance & Installation Standards. This publication tells you more than you ever wanted to know about the subject, however, Chapter Four is particular interesting as it details the standard installation practices for different forms of flexible duct work and gives plenty of good diagrams of best practices.


The newest volume of this ADC publication is “pay-portal-ed” but I found Volume 4 downloadable online here:

Home - A-Action Realty Inspection Services, LLC

A-Action Realty Inspection Services performs residential inspections and commercial inspections in Dallas, Plano, Frisco, McKinney, and the surrounding areas.

a-actionhomeinspection.com

It is worth a look and will get you where you need to be regarding correct performance for air handling in ducts and make your duct work installation neat and successful.

Thanks @ppm Charlie I appreciate it.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[ppm Charlie]

No there was nothing above to fall until it caught fire.
Yes it was able to control the intensity with a dimmer.
I had it set as low as possible.
It was just prior to moving and I didn't want the mothers growing much before I was supposed to move them.
They sent me a message saying the driver was made by another company and they would check for issues with them.
Then they ghosted me.
Won't reply so they have an issue and they know it I'm sure.
Thanks again.
Stay safe.
Bill

@Bill284 - et.al.:

Remember: All you lovely people, loving partners and top-knotch growers that rent homes/apts/land - get RENTER'S INSURANCE! Size your renter's insurance policy for complete replacement value. About 20 yrs ago I was wiped out by an aluminum-wiring-related electrical house fire. No one in the house was growing, it was just an unlucky horrible middle-of-the-night incident (thank the Universe for smoke alarms!). I had no renter's insurance. I was left with the clothes on my back, my vehicle and a small amount of savings. It took me years to recover financially and some items burned that could never be replaced. Renter's insurance is inexpensive and will be a life saver if the worst comes to pass.

Best Practices for All Concerned - Home Owners, Land Owners and Renters: Video tape/phone-video-record your home and land contents and the home interior environment you live in showing all your stuff, valuables, precautions taken, mitigation measures in-place (against the forces of fire, flood, wind-damage, etc.). Walk through the video explaining verbally all that is there. Send that video to the "cloud" or your email box or safety deposit box in a "thumb drive" and mark it in a file/folder called "Emergency Use". Also, make copies of all major item receipts, insurance policies, vital records, etc., and store them there in the "cloud" (an encrypted file/folder with an easy to remember password is strongly suggested for vital record storage in the "cloud" or email folder). A simple "thumb drive" in the safety deposit box or safe off-premises location with that info and video that can be easily accessed in a time of emergency is also a life saver. Update that video/storage with additional copies once a year - do it when you change your fire alarm batteries - easy to remember that way. Major purchases should be documented and info stored as acquired to be safe and sound.

When the worst happens (knock on wood - Universe please forbid it will), you will be prepared to show the insurance company all your stuff on video, valuables, plus receipts, plus your latest copy of your insurance policy. Also, copies of vital records like a passport, DL or, tax records are much easier to replace/access if you have a copy of them in that encrypted "cloud" file or on a thumb drive in your safety-deposit-box/off-premises-safe-location. You absolutely will need those vital records copies for ID purposes before the items can be fully replaced.

Word to the Wise. ppm Charlie

 

[Rexer]

That's some great advice on insurance, and documenting what you own.

 

[Trala]

Hi Bill

First I want to say I don’t me to make your tragedy about me but…. Lolll

Since reading your story I am scared of fire. Since learning what happened to you, I have installed a smoke alarm in my room and I have a fire extinguisher.

I am going away at the end of the month and I have a plant who is ready to flower. Due to my nervousness I was going to delay flower and keep them all outside till I got back and keep my lights off.

Do you think it’s safe to run a Mars Hydro light 12:12 in a room? I kept it on all day yesterday and after 9 hours it was warm, but not so hot you couldn’t touch it with your bare hand. I have a kill switch on my house which triggers if there is an electrical fault. I think they a mandatory here, and I am going to buy a surge protectors for the three outlets I use for the light, the fans and the exhaust. No PowerPoints will be overloaded. The room is clear of clutter and hazards.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Bill284]

Hi Bill

First I want to say I don’t me to make your tragedy about me but…. Lolll

Since reading your story I am scared of fire. Since learning what happened to you, I have installed a smoke alarm in my room and I have a fire extinguisher.

I am going away at the end of the month and I have a plant who is ready to flower. Due to my nervousness I was going to delay flower and keep them all outside till I got back and keep my lights off.

Do you think it’s safe to run a Mars Hydro light 12:12 in a room? I kept it on all day yesterday and after 9 hours it was warm, but not so hot you couldn’t touch it with your bare hand. I have a kill switch on my house which triggers if there is an electrical fault. I think they a mandatory here, and I am going to buy a surge protectors for the three outlets I use for the light, the fans and the exhaust. No PowerPoints will be overloaded. The room is clear of clutter and hazards.

What are your thoughts?

Hey @Trala I hope you are well my friend.
Here is the kicker it was a bran new light and the feken thing blew up.
And I had it turned down as low as it could go.
I had a Mars Hydro 300w in that room prior no problems.
I ran 2 ViparSpectra 600w in there for almost 5 years no problem.
Various times they were on 24/0 no problems.
If I wasn't right there when it happened we would have lost the house.
Or worse if it happened at 2AM I would have been asleep in the room directly above the fire.
The odds of your light being faulty are virtually zero but I thought my bran new light was working perfectly and look what happened.
I'd leave her outside until you return Justin Case,hehe.
It's a gamble you really don't need to take.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[Trala]

Hey @Trala I hope you are well my friend.
Here is the kicker it was a bran new light and the feken thing blew up.
And I had it turned down as low as it could go.
I had a Mars Hydro 300w in that room prior no problems.
I ran 2 ViparSpectra 600w in there for almost 5 years no problem.
Various times they were on 24/0 no problems.
If I wasn't right there when it happened we would have lost the house.
Or worse if it happened at 2AM I would have been asleep in the room directly above the fire.
The odds of your light being faulty are virtually zero but I thought my bran new light was working perfectly and look what happened.
I'd leave her outside until you return Justin Case,hehe.
It's a gamble you really don't need to take.
Stay safe.
Bill

Faaaaaaaak.

I’m so conflicted.

If I do that I’m going to have to uppot and she’s going to be too damned big for me to lift everyday.

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I’m still not sure if I’ll take it.

How old was your light when it caught fire and did you have a circuit breaker?

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284 - et.al.:

Remember: All you lovely people, loving partners and top-knotch growers that rent homes/apts/land - get RENTER'S INSURANCE! Size your renter's insurance policy for complete replacement value. About 20 yrs ago I was wiped out by an aluminum-wiring-related electrical house fire. No one in the house was growing, it was just an unlucky horrible middle-of-the-night incident (thank the Universe for smoke alarms!). I had no renter's insurance. I was left with the clothes on my back, my vehicle and a small amount of savings. It took me years to recover financially and some items burned that could never be replaced. Renter's insurance is inexpensive and will be a life saver if the worst comes to pass.

Best Practices for All Concerned - Home Owners, Land Owners and Renters: Video tape/phone-video-record your home and land contents and the home interior environment you live in showing all your stuff, valuables, precautions taken, mitigation measures in-place (against the forces of fire, flood, wind-damage, etc.). Walk through the video explaining verbally all that is there. Send that video to the "cloud" or your email box or safety deposit box in a "thumb drive" and mark it in a file/folder called "Emergency Use". Also, make copies of all major item receipts, insurance policies, vital records, etc., and store them there in the "cloud" (an encrypted file/folder with an easy to remember password is strongly suggested for vital record storage in the "cloud" or email folder). A simple "thumb drive" in the safety deposit box or safe off-premises location with that info and video that can be easily accessed in a time of emergency is also a life saver. Update that video/storage with additional copies once a year - do it when you change your fire alarm batteries - easy to remember that way. Major purchases should be documented and info stored as acquired to be safe and sound.

When the worst happens (knock on wood - Universe please forbid it will), you will be prepared to show the insurance company all your stuff on video, valuables, plus receipts, plus your latest copy of your insurance policy. Also, copies of vital records like a passport, DL or, tax records are much easier to replace/access if you have a copy of them in that encrypted "cloud" file or on a thumb drive in your safety-deposit-box/off-premises-safe-location. You absolutely will need those vital records copies for ID purposes before the items can be fully replaced.

Word to the Wise. ppm Charlie

Thank you so much @ppm Charlie .
I really appreciate you taking time to do this post.
Also for home owners in Canada
YOU MUST INFORM YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY THAT YOU ARE GROWING.
It's legal and not an issue unless you forget to tell them prior to growing.
If something goes wrong and you haven't informed them they will be able to
DENY COVERAGE if not informed prior to a claim.
Even if a tree falls on your roof they can deny your claim,even though they are unrelated innocents.
Tell them today spend the extra 4 bucks a month on coverage and never have to worry.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[ppm Charlie]

Hey @Trala I hope you are well my friend.
Here is the kicker it was a bran new light and the feken thing blew up.
And I had it turned down as low as it could go.
I had a Mars Hydro 300w in that room prior no problems.
I ran 2 ViparSpectra 600w in there for almost 5 years no problem.
Various times they were on 24/0 no problems.
If I wasn't right there when it happened we would have lost the house.
Or worse if it happened at 2AM I would have been asleep in the room directly above the fire.
The odds of your light being faulty are virtually zero but I thought my bran new light was working perfectly and look what happened.
I'd leave her outside until you return Justin Case,hehe.
It's a gamble you really don't need to take.
Stay safe.
Bill

@Bill284: Is your insurance company suing the light manufacturer?

 

[Bill284]

Faaaaaaaak.

I’m so conflicted.

If I do that I’m going to have to uppot and she’s going to be too damned big for me to lift everyday.

Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I’m still not sure if I’ll take it.

How old was your light when it caught fire and did you have a circuit breaker?

Feeeeeeeek I agree.
It was a couple weeks tops I could go back and check the thread if you want to know exactly.
I understand it's a conundrum for sure.
Odds are nothing will go wrong.
But odds were nothing would happen to my room either.
Do what works best for you.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284: Is your insurance company suing the light manufacturer?

I'm not on the greatest terms with them so I didn't ask.
And no one there mentioned anything to me.
I'm going to say probably not.
Stay safe.
Bill

 

[ppm Charlie]

I'm not on the greatest terms with them so I didn't ask.
And no one there mentioned anything to me.
I'm going to say probably not.
Stay safe.
Bill

Insurance companies are 'holes when it comes to paying out. Hopefully, they won't drop you now that you made a claim. That is typically their strategy.

 

[Bill284]

Insurance companies are 'holes when it comes to paying out. Hopefully, they won't drop you now that you made a claim. That is typically their strategy.

Oh they dropped us , before the house was sold.
Cost me a fortune to get insurance on the new house.
Stay safe.
Bill