Final Decision : Volksgarden 600w vs. CAP E&G 1kw : Start to Finish in ~1 week

[WheeloFortune]

I guess it doesnt bother me over the fan noise lol. Really though thats my biggest complaint is the noise 2 x 6 inch 450CFM fans make. If I could quiet the fans than I'm sure the next loudest thing would bother me.

yeah, i could barely hear the EnG over the wheel, which is not as loud as a 6" can fan. Once the wheel was off though, the EnG was way more obvious. now. . . nothing is obvious.

This water cooling not only works really well, it is completely silent. . . forget LED's, water cooled HID has got to be the best of all worlds.

 

[Setting Sun]

I know a simple, low-heat, and even quieter solution.

Vertical bare HID bulb or with 360-degree cool-tube if one prefers. It runs way cooler than an HID bulb in a hood, and the direct light is far more intense. I was surprised at how far away the plants need to be from a bare bulb in order to prevent stress.

Bare bulbs already run cool because of unimpeded radiation, and if you run a circulation fan pointed straight up at the bulb from below, as I like to do anyways, temps are incredibly low.

All you need is a cordset and socket to check it out.

and some welding goggles

 

[TandT]

hey wheelo my journal is at green passion my screen name is T&T Dynamite and the journal is called decidedly different roto-gro
I hope ya get a chance to take a peek at it.

 

[DroJo]

here are some after the dry:

these are vacuum sealed, and have a built in hand pump. . . keeps the smell out of my small apt. this is obviously not all of it, just the biggest best colas. they are mine. Also the wheel is all mine so I can de-seed as I smoke. My family gets charity from the smaller stuff. lol.

Niice loookin bud WOF. Bud looks great Kudos to ya for silencing the E/G too, i bedroom grow so I kno how annoying the sound can be sometimes. Good job bro

 

[McBudz]

yeah, i could barely hear the EnG over the wheel, which is not as loud as a 6" can fan. Once the wheel was off though, the EnG was way more obvious. now. . . nothing is obvious.

This water cooling not only works really well, it is completely silent. . . forget LED's, water cooled HID has got to be the best of all worlds.

How much light do you think you are losing as it passes through 2 layers of plastic/glass and the water in between? I'd be curious to see a light meter held 18 inches away from the bulb in the water cooled reflector as well as the bare bulb or bulb behind a single pane of glass.

 

[WheeloFortune]

And sound-absorbing tile, acoustical ceilings, double walls with an air-gap in between and a sound-absorbing liner (rubber mat?) at the frame contact-points never hurts. Even laying rigid Styrofoam insulation on the floor as a base might give a measurable result.

this is good stuff for when I move and start the wheel back up. . . If it was insulated and in a basement, I'm sure the noise would not be a problem.

I know a simple, low-heat, and even quieter solution.

Vertical bare HID bulb or with 360-degree cool-tube if one prefers. It runs way cooler than an HID bulb in a hood, and the direct light is far more intense. I was surprised at how far away the plants need to be from a bare bulb in order to prevent stress.

Bare bulbs already run cool because of unimpeded radiation, and if you run a circulation fan pointed straight up at the bulb from below, as I like to do anyways, temps are incredibly low.

All you need is a cordset and socket to check it out.

and some welding goggles

hmmm, well I don't really see how the orientation of the bulb would effect heat radiation, horizontal bulb in cool tube vs. vertical. . . definitely a distribution advantage in a radial garden. I guess hot air rises, so that could send the heat up and out instead of over and out. might be more efficient.

i do have to argue the quieter statement. . . maybe as quiet but not quieter. . . lol, the water cool is literally silent. can't get much quieter than that. and you'd be amazed at how cool it is. . . you could literally lick the tube and it wouldn't be hot. try that with a bare bulb

hey wheelo my journal is at green passion my screen name is T&T Dynamite and the journal is called decidedly different roto-gro
I hope ya get a chance to take a peek at it.

yeah now that you said that, i remember checking it out when you first came here. . . if you shoot me a pm with a link, i'll def check up on you from time to time. . . but i have no desire to sign up for another site. this is my grow home.

Niice loookin bud WOF. Bud looks great Kudos to ya for silencing the E/G too, i bedroom grow so I kno how annoying the sound can be sometimes. Good job bro

so quiet now. silence is golden bro. and the budz aren't that huge, but are fantastic quality. . . a bit stronger than usual, and I think it's due to the Bud Factor X, which I used a 1/4 strength. (2ml/gal)

How much light do you think you are losing as it passes through 2 layers of plastic/glass and the water in between? I'd be curious to see a light meter held 18 inches away from the bulb in the water cooled reflector as well as the bare bulb or bulb behind a single pane of glass.

well, I don't have a light meter, so I can't give you personal empirical evidence on how much is getting through, but I can tell you what the manufacturer says. . . and we all know that they can't embellish at all. lol.

"How effective is it?
The Fresca Sol removes 93% of the radiant heat emitted from the lamp, leaving your flowers and plants happier. Traveling through the glass and water you lose 8% of your lumens, but compared to an air cooled fixture that hangs above 18” to 24” from the tops of your flowers, the Fresca Sol can be put 6” from the top of the flowers. This results in 9 to 16 times more candle light actually hitting your plants. As far as the spectrums, they are all increased by 5%! Yes, believe it or not, you gain 5% more blues, and 5% more reds!"

it obviously cant increase the amount of light. . . i think what they mean here is relative to output. . . removing the IR boosts the RELATIVE amount of light in each spectrum

"Am I losing any of my lumens by using water?
We have had third party testing completed on the Fresca Sol. We have the results posted on our website. You do lose a very small percentage (8%) of your lumens. However, because you are able to lower your lights very close to the canopy, you are gaining over 9 times the amount of actual light getting to the plants."

. . . now, I'm not gonna run it @ 6". first I think that's too close regardless of how cool it is, second I have a mover, and need to get coverage out to the sides while it moves, third, even losing 8% of 140,000 leaves me with 128,800 lumens. . . if i moved the bulb a couple inches closer (but not a ridiculous 6") that would esily make up for the loss, but honestly I don't care about such a small loss. . .

I wonder what a single pane of glass reduces the output by. that I have no idea about. My friend mentioned getting a light meter soon, if he does, I'll have him bring it over and do some tests.

 

[StinkFinger]

so quiet now. silence is golden bro.

Be careful Wheel.

As I'm reminded of the good people on Seinfeld.

"Serenity Now....Insanity Later...."



SF

The Serenity Now - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Setting Sun]

I really appreciate a quiet grow room too.

There's enough noise pollution around me already without it invading my grow room.

My criteria for making gear purchases always has noise near the top of the list, and noisy gear is an instant deal-breaker for me.

I can afford that luxury since I don't grow on a large scale.

 

[TorturedSoul]

this is good stuff for when I move and start the wheel back up. . . If it was As far as the spectrums, they are all increased by 5%! Yes, believe it or not, you gain 5% more blues, and 5% more reds!"

it obviously cant increase the amount of light. . . i think what they mean here is relative to output. . . removing the IR boosts the RELATIVE amount of light in each spectrum

I think I might have read that passing through the water can modify (shift) the spectrum slightly but can't remember exactly. I did get the impression that it wasn't a bad thing.

 

[The Butcher]

Well now that I've read up onthe last 2 pages. Damn thats alot of silencing. Sounds like your ready to really get the E&G perfected. I honestly cant wait to see how it produces for your. I bet without the drought, you'll hit your marker.

 

[Setting Sun]

hmmm, well I don't really see how the orientation of the bulb would effect heat radiation, horizontal bulb in cool tube vs. vertical. . . definitely a distribution advantage in a radial garden. I guess hot air rises, so that could send the heat up and out instead of over and out. might be more efficient.

i do have to argue the quieter statement. . . maybe as quiet but not quieter. . . lol, the water cool is literally silent. can't get much quieter than that. and you'd be amazed at how cool it is. . . you could literally lick the tube and it wouldn't be hot. try that with a bare bulb

It's not so much the orientation as losing the hood. Bare and out in the open, they don't heat up the grow space nearly as much, and if you add the fan below blowing straight up, I think I might be able to give it a real quick lick, but nothing sexier than that .

check out PropaGator's photo gallery if you get a chance for an example of a vertical bare bulb grow, and he isn't done dialing it in yet.

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's not so much the orientation as losing the hood. Bare and out in the open, they don't heat up the grow space nearly as much, and if you add the fan below blowing straight up, I think I might be able to give it a real quick lick, but nothing sexier than that .

How do you get around the whole "bulbs produce the vast majority of their light to the sides (instead of the end) and plants major chloroplast groupings are on the top of their leaves" thing? turn the plants onto their sides? I'd think that they would just grow upwards - or at least at a slant.

You could add one of those old-fashioned reflectors that look kind of like a hat or satellite dish to the top, but then they would no longer be reflectorless; and those are some of the most inefficient reflector setups out there anyway.

 

[Setting Sun]

Nah, no reflectors are required.

I'm no expert on vertical bare bulbs, but since the light radiates mostly to the sides, you have the plants arranged equidistant around the bulb, which is hung low (heh, he said hung low) at canopy height or even slightly below canopy height.

 

[WheeloFortune]

man SS, i trust your opinion, but i just don't see how you could be right this time about the heat.

The bulb should emit a certain mount of heat according to its wattage and efficiency. . . the rest is heat regardless of weather you trap it in a hood, or air cool it or water cool it. . . these are all ways to try to alleviate the heat generated from the bulb, but the bulb makes the same amount of heat regardless of what it's surrounded by.

now as far as cooling goes, a bare bulb would create a good updraft and esp. with a fan blowing up, i bet it could be pretty efficient. . . i like the idea of the coliseum style grows. . . my next grow will steal elements of this style.

 

[Setting Sun]

The bulb generates the same heat no matter what the setup, but the efficiency of scavenging the heat out of the grow space with the bare bulb in the airstream of a circulation fan below helping the heat to rise, and a top-mounted exhaust fan is pretty amazing.

In my little cab, my 150w HPS set up in that manner that ran cooler than my 110w T-5 (!).

Arranging the E&G buckets in a circle around a bare bulb might be a good setup. One issue would be that you wouldn't be able to rotate the buckets to even out the exposure because of the hoses.

Anyhow, didn't mean to hijack, but I'm pretty stoked about vertical bare bulbs.

 

[McBudz]

The bulb generates the same heat no matter what the setup, but the efficiency of scavenging the heat out of the grow space with the bare bulb in the airstream of a circulation fan below helping the heat to rise, and a top-mounted exhaust fan is pretty amazing.

In my little cab, my 150w HPS set up in that manner that ran cooler than my 110w T-5 (!).

Arranging the E&G buckets in a circle around a bare bulb might be a good setup. One issue would be that you wouldn't be able to rotate the buckets to even out the exposure because of the hoses.

Anyhow, didn't mean to hijack, but I'm pretty stoked about vertical bare bulbs.

You can rotate the inner buckets Sort of a pain, 2 gallons of wet hydroton and root mass gets a little heavy.

 

[WheeloFortune]

yeah, Im gonna leave my bulb horizontal, and in the water cooled jacket. lol, believe me it really is the bomb setup. I have only great things to say about it's quietness and effectiveness. but on a shoestring budget, i bet the bare bulb thing does really help. . . I understand what you mean now bro.

but if I take the wing reflector off the fresca, and let the light emit radially, not only does the light effectively light up the plants on the ground, but it lights up the entire tent. and it's bright everywhere! so I am running 4" pvc, and kind of emulating 420fied's aero setup, but Im just running the pvc around the outer perimeter inside the tent. This way I'll have 24 EnG plants on the ground, and probably 12 more in the aero starting halfway up the tent growing up to the ceiling. hopefully the second tier and no major problems will result in over 1000grams. I would really like to top 1g/w this time. or at least get really close.

 

[McBudz]

yeah, Im gonna leave my bulb horizontal, and in the water cooled jacket. lol, believe me it really is the bomb setup. I have only great things to say about it's quietness and effectiveness. but on a shoestring budget, i bet the bare bulb thing does really help. . . I understand what you mean now bro.

but if I take the wing reflector off the fresca, and let the light emit radially, not only does the light effectively light up the plants on the ground, but it lights up the entire tent. and it's bright everywhere! so I am running 4" pvc, and kind of emulating 420fied's aero setup, but Im just running the pvc around the outer perimeter inside the tent. This way I'll have 24 EnG plants on the ground, and probably 12 more in the aero starting halfway up the tent growing up to the ceiling. hopefully the second tier and no major problems will result in over 1000grams. I would really like to top 1g/w this time. or at least get really close.

Sounds like a cool plan..

 

[Setting Sun]

yep, sounds very cool and a very efficient use of the space available.

I wasn't suggesting that you replace your water-cooled setup with a bare bulb, but when you mentioned how quiet and efficient a solution the water jacket was, it made me think of the vertical bulb setup.

I dunno, the older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity and lack of failure points.

I'm finding it hard to simplify life in general, but I have a bit more control over that in the grow room.

I'm stoked about possibly using a one-time time-release fertilizer like Dynamite's "Mater Magic" too. The idea of just watering without having to mix nutes and juggle a bunch of bottles is very appealing for the same reason.

These resin-coated little nute balls are pretty high-tech. They release nutes at the same rate even if they're completely immersed in water because they were developed for use in Japanese rice paddies.

oops, late for work, lol

 

[WheeloFortune]

Sounds like a cool plan..

thanks bro, hopefully it will work as good as it sounds.

yep, sounds very cool and a very efficient use of the space available.

I wasn't suggesting that you replace your water-cooled setup with a bare bulb, but when you mentioned how quiet and efficient a solution the water jacket was, it made me think of the vertical bulb setup.

I dunno, the older I get, the more I appreciate simplicity and lack of failure points.

I'm finding it hard to simplify life in general, but I have a bit more control over that in the grow room.

I'm stoked about possibly using a one-time time-release fertilizer like Dynamite's "Mater Magic" too. The idea of just watering without having to mix nutes and juggle a bunch of bottles is very appealing for the same reason.

These resin-coated little nute balls are pretty high-tech. They release nutes at the same rate even if they're completely immersed in water because they were developed for use in Japanese rice paddies.

oops, late for work, lol

yeah, of course. . . i get what you're saying now.

its a hard balance for me, i would love to go super techno automated do nothing grows, but also appreciate that the more you got going on the more failure points you get, and the more automated, the easier it is to get complacent and miss something and kill a ton of your effort. . . It's a balance of technology and simplicity that I am searching for, and it's been hard to come by so far. . . hopefully one day soon I'll get to where I want to be and can just get dialed in on another level.

you should consider mixing up a super soil. . . after doing it once, that's the way I'd run any soil grow in the future. . . but I'd not deviate from the formula and use less per pot (more regular dirt) next time. talk about easy.