Never3putts
New Member
there was some root rot,cleared up pretty much now. I put the pic of thr male up on my prof. please take a look when ya can. showing signs and never been on 12/12 so is he a male or a morph? thx
Feeding in Deep Water Culture, Getting Started & PPM
- Thread starter Roseman
- Start date
Can't see for sure. It kinda looks like it but you have to wait to be sure. A close-up might help.
Never3putts
New Member
Will do! I'll get a good close-up and then change pic OK? Thx again in advance. Once new pic is up let me know or e-mail (rmcdonougheATyahoo)
Never3putts
New Member
OK put new pic up and have a couple others. Does he stay in there or get removed. He isnt pollinating anythng now,right? Or is he already putting pollen in there? thx
FrostyBuds
New Member
Pic right now, in the center off to the left is a male pollen sac. That particular pollen sac is not open.
My eyes must not be good enough. I think you're right FB but just not 100% sure.
Never3putts
New Member
thx and one more question. Is he completely male or can i clone him and hope he switches? or for that matter is there any way to switch the sex of the plant. THX i have another pic ill try to get it clearer.
Oh yeah, a definate male. Sorry. Not much you can do. Dutch Masters has a product that you use to get the pollen from forming called Reverse. But you have to buy that and another product called penetrator. You're not going to get any bud from a male plant so usually you cut the male and get it out of the area. I've heard that some males have a little stuff in them but I wouldn't count on it. YOu could dry it and see but just do it away fromt he rest of your plants and make sure you wash your hands and change your clothes before you go into the growroom after that. Pollen is sneaky that way.
Aeroherbs
New Member
Actually it's possible to switch the gender of a plant (kind of), but it only works going from female to male. Without getting into the whole botanical survival of the species thing, when there's environmental stress the plant responds by becoming male (or more likely, hermaphroditic) to help ensure fertilization of seeds for the next generation to grow from.
Colloidal silver is frequently used to push a female plant to become a hermaphrodite so that it can pollinate itself and, since both the pollen and seeds come from a plant that's genetically female, the resulting seed is "feminized".
And don't forget that this gender switching is only at the level of what kind of reproductive organs (flowers) it grows. It's still genetically the original gender. (This kind of thing can actually happen in higher organisms too - humans even - but there's different causes involved.)
Colloidal silver is frequently used to push a female plant to become a hermaphrodite so that it can pollinate itself and, since both the pollen and seeds come from a plant that's genetically female, the resulting seed is "feminized".
And don't forget that this gender switching is only at the level of what kind of reproductive organs (flowers) it grows. It's still genetically the original gender. (This kind of thing can actually happen in higher organisms too - humans even - but there's different causes involved.)
Never3putts
New Member
Roseman, I DO NOT have the submer.... pump in my totes. I skipped this. Was this a mistake? I am kinda answerring my own question as my inner feeling is it was a mistake. Also when you guys are on line I will put a pic up of one of the leaves. I am curious if the pic will show early disease or a difficiency. Also the male has been removed. I also started 12/12 for him last night. Just gonna get some pollen put it in a container and then deep 6 him. thx
- Thread starter
- #72
The pump and feeder tubes are very instrumental the first 2 or 3 weeks, they make a rapid growth in the beginning. BUT after the roots are securly in the deep water, it isn't all that beneficial.
Never3putts
New Member
Thanks, I think I am just struggling getting the PH consistent and am glad I dont have to hassle with the pump. Each tote has 2 big airstones and one actually has 3 so the water is moving. Day 40 now and curious when do I start letting the water level go down or does it stay up the whole time during VEG State?
- Thread starter
- #74
We daily, once a day, make sure the water line is at its orignal position, one or two inches below the grow cups...called TOPPING OFF....or REPLENISHING.
How far are your roots in the water? You can lower the level to about 2" below the netpot if the roots are well established (at least 8-12" long and coming out of every part of the netpot).
- Thread starter
- #76
Weekly Drain and Replinish
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir
I have tried to not use scientific terms or even get very technical, but I might have to, to explain something that needs explaining here. I really do own 14 books on Hydroponic Indoor Growing. And I have studied them too. Some of the books were written simply, and some are difficult for me to comprehend and even more difficult for me to explain. They all vary a little on the perfect pH level, and they all vary on LIGHTING, some books were written way before CFLs were sold, or when CFLs were new on the scene. But they all agree on Topping Off the tank and Draining and Replenishing the water and nutrients.
To address this, I am going to post it twice to be sure I explain it. You will need to read both explanations.
After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.
The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.
As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants.
BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC.
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir
I have tried to not use scientific terms or even get very technical, but I might have to, to explain something that needs explaining here. I really do own 14 books on Hydroponic Indoor Growing. And I have studied them too. Some of the books were written simply, and some are difficult for me to comprehend and even more difficult for me to explain. They all vary a little on the perfect pH level, and they all vary on LIGHTING, some books were written way before CFLs were sold, or when CFLs were new on the scene. But they all agree on Topping Off the tank and Draining and Replenishing the water and nutrients.
To address this, I am going to post it twice to be sure I explain it. You will need to read both explanations.
After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.
The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.
As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants.
BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC.
- Thread starter
- #77
Same tune, different words.
Weekly Drain and Replinish
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir
Daily Maintenance of the reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Salts. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, for some reason unknown to me) As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) I have already discussed starting Feedings and Draining and Replenishing in this thread twice. It is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.
But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.
And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.
Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.
Weekly Drain and Replinish
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir
Daily Maintenance of the reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Salts. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, for some reason unknown to me) As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) I have already discussed starting Feedings and Draining and Replenishing in this thread twice. It is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.
But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.
And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.
Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.
largepoppa
New Member
I had a question regarding getting feeding started. I am starting with clones and I placed the feeder tubes directly into the rockwool. After a day, the clones look a little droopier than when I got them. Is it possible that they are being overwatered? The rockwool is completely drenched. I got these clones from a co-op here in socal and I am running a 600W hps. I think they used to be under flourescents but it doesn't look like heat stress to me. Thanks for any advice.
Clones are going to droop for the first day or so. New enviroment for them and they need to adjust. As long as you feeders are only at a trickle you should be fine. When in doubt turn the water down a little. You can also reposition your feeders on the bottom 1/3 of the block to make them reach a little for water but that's a pain in the ass.
Are you going to use only the HPS for veg?
Are you going to use only the HPS for veg?
wannaBhigh
New Member
As a rule of thumb when the bottom set of leaves start to yellow and sometimes the upper leaves also sag/wilt a little then it was about time to see some good root growth and will sometimes even loose those bottom leaves