You are correct. They won't drink a lot when young so you might have to add things diluted in a cup of water. Sometimes evaporation helps with that though. 3-4 in the tent should work. Might have some pruning and manipulating to do as they get big but that is doable. Might want to flower them when they first start with alternating leaves to keep things manageable. What strain are you thinking of?
Feeding in Deep Water Culture, Getting Started & PPM
- Thread starter Roseman
- Start date
I would like to buy all of these so i have a few to try, but I am not sure yet. Going to order soon though, any good-easy stains you can recommend? I might do a little LST not sure how i am going to do it yet but I might start off with 3. Was thinking of just using bagseed at first to experiment with then use the beans. Should I just get some NL beans and experiment with them first then make this bulk order once i get comfy?
5pck blue mystic $36 Nirvana Seeds Blue Mystic Feminized Product code NIRR69/NSF505
6pck OG KUSH $80 Reserva Privada OG Kush Feminized Product code-RES470/DNA-040
5pck White Widow $43 G13 Labs White Widow Feminized Product code G13F21
5pack OG skunk $33 Seedsman Seeds Original Skunk #1 Feminized Product code-SMANSK5 / SMANSK/SMFM508
5 Pack GWS 43$ Green House Seeds Great White Shark Feminized
3PACK Afghan kush 46$ World of Seeds Legend Collection Afghan Kush Special
5pck blue mystic $36 Nirvana Seeds Blue Mystic Feminized Product code NIRR69/NSF505
6pck OG KUSH $80 Reserva Privada OG Kush Feminized Product code-RES470/DNA-040
5pck White Widow $43 G13 Labs White Widow Feminized Product code G13F21
5pack OG skunk $33 Seedsman Seeds Original Skunk #1 Feminized Product code-SMANSK5 / SMANSK/SMFM508
5 Pack GWS 43$ Green House Seeds Great White Shark Feminized
3PACK Afghan kush 46$ World of Seeds Legend Collection Afghan Kush Special
- Thread starter
- #123
Sorry, Myzz617, but its not my expertise. I do not know!
All those strains are good. None would get to an unmanagable size and all are done in about 8-9 weeks. Your call on the purchase now or later. Some bag seed can be mighty good but you won't know the sex, growth pattern or flower time. If you are going to use bag seed I would plant 4 and expect 2 females. I started with bag seed my first and second grow. Gave me practice on removing males. Males are usually the biggest but not all the time.
Cool I will proceed with plans accordingly. the bag seed is just for learning purposes I am not expecting much out of them but I will prob turn the closet @ the new place into the veg room rather than wasting the money on a tent. And while the experimental plants are switched into flower start to germ the real deal. Just trying to get a good harvest before Xmas 
But thanks MC and RM thanks anyhow deff helped clear up a few things. I will just learn as i grow and ask questions.
Edit-I might scratch the OG skunk since it is mostly sativa not sure yet and just get more WW.
But thanks MC and RM thanks anyhow deff helped clear up a few things. I will just learn as i grow and ask questions.Edit-I might scratch the OG skunk since it is mostly sativa not sure yet and just get more WW.
Hello, about topping off.
You won't have to worry about it for the first couple weeks.
I always let them drink 1 gallon then replace. It's easy to measure that way. Also if PH needs adjusting (likely down) you can make your top off solution low like 5.0 and if your res is at 6.8-7.0 it should be right on the money after you top off.
AbeFroman
New Member
What I do is once the sprouts have roots coming out of what ever they are started in (rockwool,rapid rooters, etc..) it is then time to put inside a netpot with clay balls and introduce it to the bubble system. I use RO water so I add a small amount of nutes and raise the water level up an inch into the netpot and maintain it there for the first week. You should then have some good root growth coming out of the net pot. I then lower the level to one inch below the netpot which will be my full level for the rest of my grow.
I just monitor the water level and PH for the first couple weeks and make sure I keep light out and optimum growth conditions. Here is a shot of roots after 14 days from seed. My bucket is big enough that even with six little girls the level isnt going to drop much unless I make it.
- Thread starter
- #129
RNC and TDS Explained, OR Topping Off the Reservoir
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir in DWC and many Small Hydro Systems. This does not apply to VERY LARGE systems.
Something sort of technical needs explaining that I'd like to attempt to explain. I really do own 14 books on Hydroponics and Indoor Growing. And I have studied them too. Some of the books were written simply, and some are difficult for me to comprehend and even more difficult for me to explain. (I'm an OLD Stoner) The books all vary a little on the perfect pH level, and they all vary on LIGHTING, some books were written way before CFLs were sold, or when CFLs were new on the scene. But they all agree on Topping Off the Tank and Draining and Replenishing the water and nutrients in a DWC reservoir.
You will need to read both explanations, the RNC and the TDS. I've tried to simplify it.
After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.
The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 or smaller dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts and seedlings, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm or higher. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.
As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the proper amount of nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants in the beginning.
BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the imbalance, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.
AND
Daily Maintenance of the DWC reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Solids. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, Some Books use Total Disolved Salts, for some reason unknown to me)
As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, or to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) Feedings and Draining and Replenishing is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.
But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods and quit serving left-overs. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.
And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.
Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC and the proper TDS.
Again, this does not apply to the Ebb and Flow systems or very large 55 gallon reservoir systems, or organic nutes systems, or systems that you are trying to maintain a micro organism-enzyme balanced system.
Topping Off the Tank's Reservoir in DWC and many Small Hydro Systems. This does not apply to VERY LARGE systems.
Something sort of technical needs explaining that I'd like to attempt to explain. I really do own 14 books on Hydroponics and Indoor Growing. And I have studied them too. Some of the books were written simply, and some are difficult for me to comprehend and even more difficult for me to explain. (I'm an OLD Stoner) The books all vary a little on the perfect pH level, and they all vary on LIGHTING, some books were written way before CFLs were sold, or when CFLs were new on the scene. But they all agree on Topping Off the Tank and Draining and Replenishing the water and nutrients in a DWC reservoir.
You will need to read both explanations, the RNC and the TDS. I've tried to simplify it.
After the nutes are added to the tank and the pH is balanced, the plants start eating, consuming the food. Logically, the larger the tank, the more water there is, and the more nutes you need. Logically, the larger the plants, the more they will eat from the tank. Logically, the more plants that are in the tank, the more they will eat. And logically, the more they eat, the more nutes that you need in the tank. The amount of nutes provided is in relationship to the amount of water, NOT the amount of plants. It is the Ratio or Proportion in the water that is important. The amount of nutes added to the tank are measured by we commonly call a PPM Meter, PPM meaning parts per million.
The Instructions on the nutrients contain the proper amount of nutes to add to the water, usually determined by "per gallon", and not by "per plant" or "size of plants". In the beginning, we start with 1/4 or smaller dose of nutrients, because a full dose is meant for full grown plants. If we use a ppm meter, we seek a ppm of 150 to 250 ppms above the ppm of the water, on average for small young sprouts and seedlings, it varies from nutrient to nutrient. As the plants grow, we then slowly and gradually increase the nutrients fed to them, and consequently we increase the ppm. By the time the plants are over a foot tall, we will be in the neighborhood of a ppm of 600, then 800 on up to 1200 ppm or higher. Some growers risk even higher ppms, watching the leaves tips for yellowing, to know when to back off with feedings. And as we add more food, the plants grow and eat more, indicated by them also drinking more water. As a rule of thumb, we figure if they drank half of the water, they then must of ate half the food. That is close to being right, but not precisely. If the grow room was exceptionly HOT, they can drink more water without eating more food. And consequently, some days, they eat more, some days they eat less, regardless of the amount of the water missing.
As they eat, they do not eat all of the delivered nutes at the same rate, or same proportion, and that changes the pH and the ppm. It also changes what they call the RNC, or RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. That CHANGE is not easy to calculate or measure, like the ppm or pH is easy to measure.
When the proper amount of nutrients are first introduced or added, the RNC is perfect, or properly proportioned. In other words, there are specific amounts or precise amounts of each needed nutrient. The exact amount of needed Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potash, also commonly called Potassium are present and available for food for the plants in the beginning.
BUT, as the plants eat, they do not eat all of the nutrients in a perfect proportion or at a perfect rate or equal rate. Some days, they want what grows longer roots, some days, they want what makes more leaves. The plants actually nibble at some nutrients in the mix each day, and gobble down some others. Some of the nutrients are not hardly eaten at all, some are absorbed very quickly. This creates an IMBALANCE of the mix. If you add more water and nutes daily to replace the eaten nutes, (CALLED TOPPING OFF) the IMBALANCE INCREASES. If you only add plain water daily, again, Top It Off, you still get the imbalance. AND the nutes not eaten, or the nutes that are increased daily cause a build up of nutes, and that creates a BAD imbalance of the RNC.
When this happens, the imbalance, the water becomes TOXIC and unusable even tho the ppm meter says there is a proper amount of nutrients. The plants say I AM NOT HAPPY WITH THE BUFFET and like a spoiled child unhappy at the dinner table, they suddenly refuse to eat anything. This is called NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT. This happens even tho the ppm meter says there are plenty of parts per million of nutes in the water. The ppm meter does not indicate if the nutrients are balanced or at a toxic level. It just indicates there is plenty of food on the table.
AND
Daily Maintenance of the DWC reservoir is mostly keeping the pH at the proper level, and keeping the same level of water in the tank as it is used or evaporates. It is also keeping the nutrient mix or nutrient solution at a proper level, a level that is NOT toxic or too strong.
In the day to day course of maintaining the tank two problems occur. Remember how we discussed ppm, parts per million? Then we discussed RNC, RELATIONSHIP OF NUTRIENT CONCENTRATION. Well, we also need to discuss TDS, Total Disolved Solids. (Some books say Total Disolved Solids, Some Books use Total Disolved Salts, for some reason unknown to me)
As the water evaporates or is consumed, the concentration of TDS becomes stronger, to the point of being Toxic. The TDS increase as the amount of water decreases. This creates the need to replenish the water, to replace the water, or to "top off". As we replace that missing water, we create an IMBALANCE. Hydroponic grown plants eat what they need, as they need it, and they leave some nutes to build up and accumalate into a posionious or toxic level.
This creates the need to daily TOP IT OFF. (to put a cut on it) Feedings and Draining and Replenishing is simple enough, daily replace what you estimate is gone, consumed, eaten, and absorbed.
But weekly, you need to clear the buffet table and start all over with fresh foods and quit serving left-overs. This gives the plant not only a well balanced buffet table to eat from, but also supplies it with FRESH Food that has not been altered by the plants being picky and choosey.
And, there is the Growth Spurt you will get during the Drain, as the roots get a 5 to 15 mintues air bath. It also gives you the opportunity to look for crimped air hoses, scrub the air stones clean and look for debris and trash in the tank that messes with the pH balance.
Also, as the water ages, undesirable harmful microbes appear and grow in the water. You also take the chance of insect larvae and algae appearing, and weekly draining the tank helps prevent those problems too.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST WEEKLY DUMP IT ALL AND START ALL OVER.
THIS IS WHY WE MUST DRAIN AND REPLENISH WEEKLY, regardless of whether we TOP OFF with plain water, or TOP OFF with water and a fractional dose of nutes.
Changing the water weekly maintains the proper RNC and the proper TDS.
Again, this does not apply to the Ebb and Flow systems or very large 55 gallon reservoir systems, or organic nutes systems, or systems that you are trying to maintain a micro organism-enzyme balanced system.
Hi there i know this post hasnt been active for some time but i just wanted to get abit of advice.
Ok so i have one ladie arjans haze in a dwc bucket it was put in there 14 days ago and growth has been very fast i have been using Dutch pro nutes and by there feedchart it says you should give 1 - 2 week old seedlings or cuttings 1.8EC - 2.0 EC seems very strong do you not think??
So i was getting what looked like n , iron, mag, or sulfur deficiencies leaves were green but in between veins they were going lime to yellow colour.
I have tried supernatural green and stay spray but problem is still there.
The thing is from what u have said in this thread i am feeding my girls to much fert but there is no sign of nute burn or might this be nute burn ?
Oh and my plain water EC is 0.5EC.
I would upload a pic but my internets to slow atm sorry
Ok so i have one ladie arjans haze in a dwc bucket it was put in there 14 days ago and growth has been very fast i have been using Dutch pro nutes and by there feedchart it says you should give 1 - 2 week old seedlings or cuttings 1.8EC - 2.0 EC seems very strong do you not think??
So i was getting what looked like n , iron, mag, or sulfur deficiencies leaves were green but in between veins they were going lime to yellow colour.
I have tried supernatural green and stay spray but problem is still there.
The thing is from what u have said in this thread i am feeding my girls to much fert but there is no sign of nute burn or might this be nute burn ?
Oh and my plain water EC is 0.5EC.
I would upload a pic but my internets to slow atm sorry
I've never measured my EC. I do measure my TDS and PH, and monitor closely. Do you know what your TDS and PH is before adding nutes, and after adding?
1EC = About 600 -700ppm - 50 mL of the 700ppm solution would leave 35 mg of salt at the bottom of a crucible after drying so my calculation would be 50mg Total Disolved Solids.
My Ph is always between 5.4 - 6.1 never above or below the girls seem to drink and eat the same amount so as water drops the ph and ec does to ie. 15L water ph 5.8 EC 1.5 1litre drunk Ph is still 5.8 and EC is still 1.5 once i top the res back up the litre it drank the Ec will be say 1.4 and Ph 6.0.
After adding nutes PH will drop to 5.8 and EC rise to 1.5 again.
Hope you understand that because i kinda confused myself. lol Half Baked!
My Ph is always between 5.4 - 6.1 never above or below the girls seem to drink and eat the same amount so as water drops the ph and ec does to ie. 15L water ph 5.8 EC 1.5 1litre drunk Ph is still 5.8 and EC is still 1.5 once i top the res back up the litre it drank the Ec will be say 1.4 and Ph 6.0.
After adding nutes PH will drop to 5.8 and EC rise to 1.5 again.
Hope you understand that because i kinda confused myself. lol Half Baked!
Heks
Well-Known Member
She might be getting too much food, multiple signs of nutrient deficiency when you're feeding her a full spectrum of vitamins can mean there's just too much and she's in lockout, might want to give her half strength of your current menu for a few days until her new growth recovers, then kick it up a few ppm. I'd even calibrate the ol' pH meter just to be sure everything is right, bad pH can cause similar symptoms too.
I'm still new to DWC and hydroponics in general, writing this to hopefully help you some and see if I've learned anything too.
I'm still new to DWC and hydroponics in general, writing this to hopefully help you some and see if I've learned anything too.
hi heks there is no sign of nute burn and new growth is growing inches every day vibrant green its just the big fans that are going a bit lime colour but the vains are green.
If there is no sign of stress and no sign of nute burn and its the quickest iv ever seen a plant grow would u realy wana dilute the nutes more?
Oh i calibrate ph and ec meters every week surly if there was nute lockout my girls wouldnt grow they are a foot tall and the nodes are so strong and grwing like mad!
If there is no sign of stress and no sign of nute burn and its the quickest iv ever seen a plant grow would u realy wana dilute the nutes more?
Oh i calibrate ph and ec meters every week surly if there was nute lockout my girls wouldnt grow they are a foot tall and the nodes are so strong and grwing like mad!
Heks
Well-Known Member
No way! I thought the new growth was being burned, keep doing what you're doing 
Apologies if I offended, not knowing your grow I'm merely guessing what's going on.
pictures maybe?
Apologies if I offended, not knowing your grow I'm merely guessing what's going on.
pictures maybe?
Oh no offence heks i was just trying to explain a lil bit better my web wont let me upload its doing my nut in all the new growth is good including the nodes but some of the bigger fans have gone lime to yellow ish colour and some have a bit of a claw what indicates to much nutes right?
so i was thinking it could be defiencie or the nutes to strong any ways i did half my nutes but because it isnt much the ph is very tempermental and rises very very quick so i uped it again to 3/4 of what i was feeding and ph is calmed down a bit ill give it a few days a see what happens thanks for advice.
so i was thinking it could be defiencie or the nutes to strong any ways i did half my nutes but because it isnt much the ph is very tempermental and rises very very quick so i uped it again to 3/4 of what i was feeding and ph is calmed down a bit ill give it a few days a see what happens thanks for advice.
