Emmie's Vegan Fertilizer, Pineapple Chunk 2020 Celebration: Experimental Soil Grow

Homer Simpson said:
Thank you so much for the info Emilya. I just missed your message by a few minutes before I added the BE and SK. I am in my first week of flower and giving 5g/gal MC so I am a little early but I only gave them I gram of each so hopefully I will be ok.

I am definitely going to keep reading as this is one informative journal. Also sorry for involving you inadvertently in that little brouhaha in the MC thread. I was just trying to give credit where due but it didn’t get perceived as that by all, unfortunately.

Also in retrospect my advice about fridge drying I would like to add a qualifier that the bags I used are double layered so you may want to double bag your buds and seal the ends especially since the outer buds would dry more. I reach in and mix my buds up every other day so they dry evenly and since you will be away I think double bagging and sealing would help.
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It's ok Homer, and I don't mind your quoting me in that other thread... it really got them riled up didn't it? Instead of discussing your original question they quickly steered the conversation in a direction where they think they got me... but actually they don't. It just isn't worth it to argue about it on someone else's thread.

I don't think you will hurt anything being slightly early and coming in hard with the BE and SC... just watch carefully for any signs of damage, and then if you do, read it correctly. I would think that at 5g MC you are right about in the range where you want to be. Just watch carefully, and know that you are always one water cycle away from being able to readjust to new levels.

Regarding my harvest, I have all the buds now stripped from the branches and 2/3 full in large ball jars, outfitted with cheesecloth on the top as their lids. The jars are maintaining an RH between 88 and 80, going up and down as the buds cast off moisture. It is 39 degrees F in the fridge, and I am confident they are going to be fine until Sunday after next.

I know a lot of folks are reading both this and "The MC Thread" so I will take this opportunity to further explain what I know of MC. As was said today, GLN isn't talking... and many of the percentages of the additional secondary nutrients is propitiatory information that they are not going to tell us... so coming up with an 8% chelated figure is simply a wild guess on my friend's part and one that can't be taken seriously. We really don't know how much of the overall mix is chelated percentage wise, but it doesn't matter... especially if the topic at hand was flushing...
But, I digress...
The discussion is partially correct... not all of our nutrients are or need to be chelated. There are certain elements that tend to bind with soil and interact against the other elements, and these need to be chelated to remain available to the plant, but not everything is or needs to be chelated.

This fertilizer however is using a different method of supplying nutrients than we are all used to, so that its delivery is not dependent on the cation exchange rate or the pH of the medium as to the mobility of the needed elements. By using specialized versions of some of our common nutrients, GLN has managed to make forms of our NP&K that are extremely water soluble, and these versions of these macro nutrients come right up into the plant with the water, not needing specialized root structures to make it happen. GLN doesn't stop there though, and they include several different chemical versions of our macronutrients in the mix so that not only does some of it come up with the water, other parts are amino chelated to be very efficiently and quickly absorbed by the plant, and still others are in forms that will stay in the medium and be taken up by the parts of the roots specialized in that nutrient in the traditional way.

Why all these paths?

Our plants don't use the same amount of each of the nutrients in a given time. The "mix' that ends up inside the plant is designed to be at a certain NPK balance while also including the long list of micronutrients that our plants need. Our plants use large amounts of some of those nutrients, the macronutrients, nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, potassium and Iron, and without them coming in in different forms all at the same time, there would be times when some of the nutrients were available in the mix, but the ones being used in such large amounts would be in lesser supply in that mix... GLN makes sure this mix stays balanced all through the feeding cycle by providing several paths of entry for these major nutrients, so that the optimum amounts are always available to the plant. The amino chelation combined with highly water soluble nutrients that are not chelated, allows for a very rapid absorption of the entire nutrient package and a constant supply of all of the building blocks needed for full expression of these plants. We need to understand that with this new Vegan technology, most of the magic happens inside the plant and not at the root/medium level. The trick to making this system work is to keep the levels where they need to be inside the plant, by using all these multiple forms of the nutrients entering the system via at least 3 different paths. With the proper mix, GLN has developed a beautiful system that keeps a constant stream of the needed nutrients coming in with each watering... as long as the levels are where they need to be so as to not cause lockouts.
So what is it we were arguing about again?? The size of the molecules?
 
Amazing journal Emilya!

I've been lurking and learning around these parts for a while and really appreciate the detailed analysis and explanation you provided, your obvious sensitivity to the plants and how to read them, and the incredible photos that illustrate what you're talking about. It's really remarkable work; and the success of your grow is testament to your expertise and talent. Your description about the remarkable Vegan technology and how it compares to traditional salt-based ferts was illuminating. Makes me appreciate MC and their tech even more. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

The reaction to you reminds me of my trips through the 420 Magazine way-back-machine when Doc Bud was writing about Osmocote + Hempies, and developing what became the High Brix system ten years ago. Old ideas die hard. Sheesh.

Keep up the great work. Please.
 
bubkas said:
Amazing journal Emilya!

I've been lurking and learning around these parts for a while and really appreciate the detailed analysis and explanation you provided, your obvious sensitivity to the plants and how to read them, and the incredible photos that illustrate what you're talking about. It's really remarkable work; and the success of your grow is testament to your expertise and talent. Your description about the remarkable Vegan technology and how it compares to traditional salt-based ferts was illuminating. Makes me appreciate MC and their tech even more. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.

The reaction to you reminds me of my trips through the 420 Magazine way-back-machine when Doc Bud was writing about Osmocote + Hempies, and developing what became the High Brix system ten years ago. Old ideas die hard. Sheesh.

Keep up the great work. Please.
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Thank you dear friend, and welcome officially to the forum. Indeed, old ideas do die hard, but this is a new century and one with total legalization on the horizon. It is time to come out of the basements and gorilla gardens and through communication learn how to truly use this plant that nature has provided for us. To do that we HAVE to open our eyes to new ideas and new ways of doing things.
 
Emilya said:
It's ok Homer, and I don't mind your quoting me in that other thread... it really got them riled up didn't it? Instead of discussing your original question they quickly steered the conversation in a direction where they think they got me... but actually they don't. It just isn't worth it to argue about it on someone else's thread.

I don't think you will hurt anything being slightly early and coming in hard with the BE and SC... just watch carefully for any signs of damage, and then if you do, read it correctly. I would think that at 5g MC you are right about in the range where you want to be. Just watch carefully, and know that you are always one water cycle away from being able to readjust to new levels.

Regarding my harvest, I have all the buds now stripped from the branches and 2/3 full in large ball jars, outfitted with cheesecloth on the top as their lids. The jars are maintaining an RH between 88 and 80, going up and down as the buds cast off moisture. It is 39 degrees F in the fridge, and I am confident they are going to be fine until Sunday after next.

I know a lot of folks are reading both this and "The MC Thread" so I will take this opportunity to further explain what I know of MC. As was said today, GLN isn't talking... and many of the percentages of the additional secondary nutrients is propitiatory information that they are not going to tell us... so coming up with an 8% chelated figure is simply a wild guess on my friend's part and one that can't be taken seriously. We really don't know how much of the overall mix is chelated percentage wise, but it doesn't matter... especially if the topic at hand was flushing...
But, I digress...
The discussion is partially correct... not all of our nutrients are or need to be chelated. There are certain elements that tend to bind with soil and interact against the other elements, and these need to be chelated to remain available to the plant, but not everything is or needs to be chelated.

This fertilizer however is using a different method of supplying nutrients than we are all used to, so that its delivery is not dependent on the cation exchange rate or the pH of the medium as to the mobility of the needed elements. By using specialized versions of some of our common nutrients, GLN has managed to make forms of our NP&K that are extremely water soluble, and these versions of these macro nutrients come right up into the plant with the water, not needing specialized root structures to make it happen. GLN doesn't stop there though, and they include several different chemical versions of our macronutrients in the mix so that not only does some of it come up with the water, other parts are amino chelated to be very efficiently and quickly absorbed by the plant, and still others are in forms that will stay in the medium and be taken up by the parts of the roots specialized in that nutrient in the traditional way.

Why all these paths?

Our plants don't use the same amount of each of the nutrients in a given time. The "mix' that ends up inside the plant is designed to be at a certain NPK balance while also including the long list of micronutrients that our plants need. Our plants use large amounts of some of those nutrients, the macronutrients, nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, potassium and Iron, and without them coming in in different forms all at the same time, there would be times when some of the nutrients were available in the mix, but the ones being used in such large amounts would be in lesser supply in that mix... GLN makes sure this mix stays balanced all through the feeding cycle by providing several paths of entry for these major nutrients, so that the optimum amounts are always available to the plant. The amino chelation combined with highly water soluble nutrients that are not chelated, allows for a very rapid absorption of the entire nutrient package and a constant supply of all of the building blocks needed for full expression of these plants. We need to understand that with this new Vegan technology, most of the magic happens inside the plant and not at the root/medium level. The trick to making this system work is to keep the levels where they need to be inside the plant, by using all these multiple forms of the nutrients entering the system via at least 3 different paths. With the proper mix, GLN has developed a beautiful system that keeps a constant stream of the needed nutrients coming in with each watering... as long as the levels are where they need to be so as to not cause lockouts.
So what is it we were arguing about again?? The size of the molecules?
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I don’t share your vast growing knowledge and skill but I do share your quest to find the easiest best growing method and I respect your scientific testing approach so I find your journal very pertinent. Your journal reads like a detective story jam-packed with relevant background information so it may take me a while to get to the end but the time feels well worth it.

I find it very interesting that you switched from organic to MC because I always figured my progression in growing would be the reverse but you switching is a real recommendation for MC. Thanks again for the info and the good work you do. And yes, I wish we could just all get along but in the meantime thank god for the ignore button; I just wish they had them for people in real life.
 
Homer Simpson said:
I don’t share your vast growing knowledge and skill but I do share your quest to find the easiest best growing method and I respect your scientific testing approach so I find your journal very pertinent. Your journal reads like a detective story jam-packed with relevant background information so it may take me a while to get to the end but the time feels well worth it.

I find it very interesting that you switched from organic to MC because I always figured my progression in growing would be the reverse but you switching is a real recommendation for MC. Thanks again for the info and the good work you do. And yes, I wish we could just all get along but in the meantime thank god for the ignore button; I just wish they had them for people in real life.
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Emilya, have you switched to MC, given up on organics entirely? Say it ain’t so! And would you expect the same result in say FFOF or Roots as you got with your 10yr old mix? Because I’m seriously considering just recycling my soil and trying to copy what you just did.
 
Fudo Myoo said:
Emilya, have you switched to MC, given up on organics entirely? Say it ain’t so! And would you expect the same result in say FFOF or Roots as you got with your 10yr old mix? Because I’m seriously considering just recycling my soil and trying to copy what you just did.
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I guess what I’m asking is does the soil matter at all? If I’m reading it right, the vulx smooths out the root paths so to speak and the MC provides everything else. Soil is irrelevant?
 
Fudo Myoo said:
Emilya, have you switched to MC, given up on organics entirely? Say it ain’t so! And would you expect the same result in say FFOF or Roots as you got with your 10yr old mix? Because I’m seriously considering just recycling my soil and trying to copy what you just did.
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I'm in a mix of new FFOF and recycled Detroit Nutrient Co. soils. All I did to the used soil was add a bunch of Recharge and let it sit in a big Rubbermaid tub. I'm at harvest time just counting Amber right now. This grow will more than double my yield of my last grow. Even after a lockout( not soil related).
 
Fudo Myoo said:
Emilya, have you switched to MC, given up on organics entirely? Say it ain’t so! And would you expect the same result in say FFOF or Roots as you got with your 10yr old mix? Because I’m seriously considering just recycling my soil and trying to copy what you just did.
Click to expand...
Fudo Myoo said:
I guess what I’m asking is does the soil matter at all? If I’m reading it right, the vulx smooths out the root paths so to speak and the MC provides everything else. Soil is irrelevant?
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Hey Fudo... hope all is well in your gardens. Heaven's no... I will never give up organic growing completely. Since a dispensary is opening up right down the street from me, my priorities have changed. I no longer will have to grow my daily pot... decent enough will be available to those with medical cards. What I will be growing is connoisseur weed... only the best and longest running strains will do, landrace and all, and without a doubt some of that will be grown organically in my same old mix, amended back up to specs that is.

Vulx is a miracle, and I believe that if I added the right amount of @Vulx to sand, I could grow pot in it. On my very next grow I do intend on growing at least one plant in a water based style... leaning toward Hempy in perlite, just to learn how MC is supposed to be run in a hydro situation, without pH, clean water, spread sheets or damage. I do believe that with MC and a proper medium of practically any kind, pot could be grown, making the choice of medium superfluous.
My preferred medium will remain to be soil, but any good soil will do when using MC. I enjoy soil because I am familiar with and know how to work with a good organic soil's (with Vulx) water retention and flow through rates, and my ability using my watering system to develop superior root systems and get to an every other day watering period in bloom.
 
IMG_20200229_072410.jpg

Waiting for First Class to board... KCI airport

Greetings from beautiful, sunny, Mission Viejo, California! A special greeting to our local Greanleaf Nutrient representative who is being disparaged again, and whom I am hoping is finding this thread to be a refreshing change from the other megacrop threads going on right now. I would be silent too, while the folks slowly come up to speed with this new technology, and until they have a bit more understanding as to how fundamentally this product changes the feeding cycle and how to correctly read the results. I imagine that he/she would not think much of our crowd so far, and I am personally embarrassed seeing members of this board continually disparaging the company and its motives, its representatives, its website, and the very product itself by perverting the system as designed by adding calmag and silicates and who knows what else. You have my sympathies @GreenleafNutr, but hang in there. Stoners will eventually learn... many of the academics already have. I have tried to get good information out in this thread and I hope it is helping, and the small following of readers here says that I am making a difference. I am seeing many more successful MC grows as a result of getting away from the bad information being put out there,and this gives me hope.
 
Emilya said:
Hey Fudo... hope all is well in your gardens. Heaven's no... I will never give up organic growing completely. Since a dispensary is opening up right down the street from me, my priorities have changed. I no longer will have to grow my daily pot... decent enough will be available to those with medical cards. What I will be growing is connoisseur weed... only the best and longest running strains will do, landrace and all, and without a doubt some of that will be grown organically in my same old mix, amended back up to specs that is.

Vulx is a miracle, and I believe that if I added the right amount of @Vulx to sand, I could grow pot in it. On my very next grow I do intend on growing at least one plant in a water based style... leaning toward Hempy in perlite, just to learn how MC is supposed to be run in a hydro situation, without pH, clean water, spread sheets or damage. I do believe that with MC and a proper medium of practically any kind, pot could be grown, making the choice of medium superfluous.
My preferred medium will remain to be soil, but any good soil will do when using MC. I enjoy soil because I am familiar with and know how to work with a good organic soil's (with Vulx) water retention and flow through rates, and my ability using my watering system to develop superior root systems and get to an every other day watering period in bloom.
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Lots to think about. I’ll definitely try Vulx.
 
Emilya said:
IMG_20200229_072410.jpg


Greetings from beautiful, sunny, Mission Viejo, California! A special greeting to our local Greanleaf Nutrient representative who is being disparaged again, and whom I am hoping is finding this thread to be a refreshing change from the other megacrop threads going on right now. I would be silent too, while the folks slowly come up to speed with this new technology, and until they have a bit more understanding as to how fundamentally this product changes the feeding cycle and how to correctly read the results. I imagine that he/she would not think much of our crowd so far, and I am personally embarrassed seeing members of this board continually disparaging the company and its motives, its representatives, its website, and the very product itself by perverting the system as designed by adding calmag and silicates and who knows what else. You have my sympathies @GreenleafNutr, but hang in there. Stoners will eventually learn... many of the academics already have. I have tried to get good information out in this thread and I hope it is helping, and the small following of readers here says that I am making a difference. I am seeing many more successful MC grows as a result of getting away from the bad information being put out there,and this gives me hope.
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Have a safe trip.
 
I decided to give MC a try, and am finishing a grow with it. Switched more than one variable, so can't rate it yet, but will for sure try it on my next grow. Thanks for all your info Emilya! BTW, I've been using GH nutes happily for a very long time, but this new technology intrigues me. I grow in peat/perlite Sunshine Mix #4.
 
Bush Doctor 77 said:
I decided to give MC a try, and am finishing a grow with it. Switched more than one variable, so can't rate it yet, but will for sure try it on my next grow. Thanks for all your info Emilya! BTW, I've been using GH nutes happily for a very long time, but this new technology intrigues me. I grow in peat/perlite Sunshine Mix #4.
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I just ordered some myself. Gonna have to see how this works for me
 
I'm just green with envy! Enjoy yourselves! First class is quite a start, good times ahead to you!
 
@Emilya have great vacation!

As far as all the BS on the MC thread, haven't read it in weeks. All I know is I just cut two girls tonight, and I've got at least twice the yield I had last grow. Even with the lockout, hell the DD I cut tonight had its bottom branches resting on the sides of the pot. So, I'm sticking with MC. Next grow will be better after the knowledge from this grow. I know it's Emily's thread but here's a couple picks before the got chopped.
 

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Deketx said:
@Emilya have great vacation!

As far as all the BS on the MC thread, haven't read it in weeks. All I know is I just cut two girls tonight, and I've got at least twice the yield I had last grow. Even with the lockout, hell the DD I cut tonight had its bottom branches resting on the sides of the pot. So, I'm sticking with MC. Next grow will be better after the knowledge from this grow. I know it's Emily's thread but here's a couple picks before the got chopped.
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Congrats @Deketx, that is a wonderful harvest! You did great work on this grow and helped to convince a lot of growers out there that we were all heading down an erroneous path toward 6gm and above... your dramatic turnaround will help save gardens for years as people read your grow journal, and you deserve a big pat on the back and another thank you. Enjoy that harvest... it will taste just that much more sweeter because of all the effort you had to put into it.
:goodjob::surf::slide::snowboating:
 
Zooie said:
Hope you are safe and have a wonderful time @Emilya , will be posting more updates soon. :) :circle-of-love:
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We are very safe, locked in our posh gated community at the base of the mountains, and having a great time! Mum and Ms. J are getting along well and today we are going to do breakfast at "the Club" and later I am going to go to Simi Valley to visit the Ronald Reagan Library. Tomorrow we head to Ventura Beach for some sailing and sun, and Wednesday we are attending a paddle tennis tournament before heading out on our own to East LA for some dispensary shopping. I have been without for 2 days now, and with my reduced tolerance, this should be fun!
 
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