Emmie's LSD Grow Log

Bloom, Day 19
Days since last watering - 6
Days since last foliar - 7
Days since last feed - 12
Age of plant - 135 days

Today I held off from watering and will do so until feeding day 2 days from now. They should be plenty dry by then and I will consider this to be my first dry out watering of this run, attempting to flush the lower roots with a good hit of oxygen right here at the start of week 3. This is an 8-9 week plant, so things are going to start moving fast from here on out.

I am still fighting the thrips, but I am ahead of them and they are starting to go away. The plants are still on a 12:20/11:40 light schedule and it does not seem to have affective bloom. This week sometime, I will add another 20 minutes of daylight to the schedule.

There was a little bit of final stretch seen in the last 3 or 4 days, and a few of them gained another couple of inches. Still, this is not a stretch like anything I have ever seen... the red light has caused a very minimal stretch, almost so much so that it is hard to tell that there has been any stretch at all. I am totally sold on the red lights, but of course we will be experimenting on this next round too, hoping for the same result.

I also adjusted the tomato cages a bit and added some more supports where needed. Unlike any other time I have used these build as you go cages, I am placing the dividers in a way to pull buds away from the center, forcing the canopy to spread out. Later, if the buds become heavy and actually needs some support, I can do that with garden wire. The support they now have is designed to let more light and airflow into the center of each of the plants. As short as these plants have stayed, I am sure that the penetration of this big NextLight MEGA will be clear down to their toes. I will go in also in the next day or so to trim out some of that center where it is needed.

Here are the shots from tonight, even with a few artistic shots thrown in for good measure.

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great node spacing Em, its actually the blue that keeps them tight. You have as much blue as my light, ( perfectSunDwarfStar) and i seen virtually zero stretch after flip also.

Looking good,
 
Mayne said:
great node spacing Em, its actually the blue that keeps them tight. You have as much blue as my light, ( perfectSunDwarfStar) and i seen virtually zero stretch after flip also.

Looking good,
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I have run with this same light for a good time now, and never have I seen this effect and stretch has always been an issue under it before now. The only difference is that this time I have the deep red and far red trigger lights going for 20 minutes before and after light changes.
 
Interesting stuff you have going on with that red light. I'm not so sure I'm buying the red light inhibiting your stretch. I use two for all of budding on top of the full spectrum. Mine run 20/4 just as the full spectrum does. And my good light in the tent has a reds booster that goes on day one of the flip. I've never noticed any of these reds having any effect on the stretch. Granted, you're doing it differently, and granted, your reds are more powerful than mine (what's the wattage on them? My light adds 130 watts of reds when the flower booster is flipped on, and the two blurples add about 400 watts of reds when engaged), but still, I wonder. Could it be a strain thing, like maybe this strain doesn't stretch too much? Could it be the training you did? I see your logic, the lights being the only difference, but I wonder....just not quite enough actual proof for me. Not on the first try. I would be hesitant to draw that conclusion and bank it till I ran different strains under the same conditions. No?
 
Emilya said:
I have run with this same light for a good time now, and never have I seen this effect and stretch has always been an issue under it before now. The only difference is that this time I have the deep red and far red trigger lights going for 20 minutes before and after light changes.
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OIC,

I dont really follow you, so i wasnt aware of you using this light before. I do know tho, Blue keeps nodes tight, and red makes them stretch. But, strangely enough, i also use Far red to initiate sleep, and mimic early sun rise spectrum,
 
Mayne said:
OIC,

I dont really follow you, so i wasnt aware of you using this light before. I do know tho, Blue keeps nodes tight, and red makes them stretch. But, strangely enough, i also use Far red to initiate sleep, and mimic early sun rise spectrum,
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So as it turns out, you are doing exactly what I am doing. Here is why it is working for you.

These studies appear to be confirmed by the experiment in my bloom room as well as in your garden. I give them FR for 20 minutes before and after each light change. To answer @Jon's question, the Deep/Far Red strip I am running is 30 watts and runs on a little 1 amp constant current supply. It is only large in the amount of pure Far Red it brings to the table... something not included in abundance in most "full spectrum" lights. In addition, I am also lengthening the daylight hours to 13/11 by the end of this run, which should also help to shorten the bloom cycle.

From the official studies:

Plants thrive when they receive FR just before and just after the photoperiod. Applying FR for ten minutes at these times — before the lights go on — can help level the canopy after the lights go off. The lower colas will stretch to avoid shade and produce a flat canopy top where plants receive better-distributed light. This builds biomass while also expediting flowering, as explained below. (1)

Growers have found that a simple end-of-day FR application can decrease the flowering cycle by up to 15%. That’s because FR helps signal the shortening day length that plants would naturally experience outdoors. As the angle of the sun lowers, less red light makes it through the atmosphere, and the R: FR ratio drops. (2)

(1) Zhen, S., Bugbee, B. Far-red photons have equivalent efficiency to traditional photosynthetic photons: Implications for redefining photosynthetically active radiation. Plant Cell Environ. 2020.

(2) Ashdown, I. Far-Red Lighting and the Phytochromes. Maximum Yield. 2018.
 
87from seed-43days from flip
yeap, great read Em, here is a perfect example of faster bloom also. I have my far red puck closer to the darker plant, and it is about 2 weeks ahead of the other. Al-thought the other plant, something was off with it pretty much from the start of the grow because it never seemed to ever get darker, even as a youngin. BUT, its buds are about 20% larger. There are some problems with the leafs, as i raised the PH to 6.2..... Back to 5.9 now tho, But i think the light greeener plant just is a bit light sensitive. as the lower, hidin leafs are a tad darker. This light is pretty strong and has alot of UV and IR. I definitly had it to close. If you can see the bud that extended wayyyy from the greener plant, is probably the heaviest bud, but yet, they furthest from the light. (in the last pic)

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I have just ordered some predatory nematodes to take care of my thrip problem since I am so bad about spraying every 3 days. Why work hard when the hired help can do it for you? I chose these over ladybugs simply because the cute little things are out of season... I can't get a flock of them till February. Nematodes and the spray ought to get rid of them before we get too far into bloom.
 
Emilya said:
yes, but very little of that is far and deep red. THAT is the difference.
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Well, that is not true of the pro tent light, those reds are exactly and intentionally that. In spades. But it is most definitely true of using the blurples for reds. That has minimal effect, but a little, it's better than no reds which is why I use them. I see the difference. Didn't realize your bar was so targeted in terms of red spectrum, nor the studies you cite. Good stuff. How did you decide on the power (30 watts)? I didn't see that in either of what you cited, but is that the preferred wattage if there is such a thing?
 
Jon said:
Well, that is not true of the pro tent light, those reds are exactly and intentionally that. In spades. But it is most definitely true of using the blurples for reds. That has minimal effect, but a little, it's better than no reds which is why I use them. I see the difference. Didn't realize your bar was so targeted in terms of red spectrum, nor the studies you cite. Good stuff. How did you decide on the power (30 watts)? I didn't see that in either of what you cited, but is that the preferred wattage if there is such a thing?
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The thing I keep getting from the studies on this is that the most important thing about this far red light is the timing. Some studies even indicate that 2 minutes before lights on and 2 minutes after the big lights go off, will do it. The morning shot finds the horizon for the plants and the evening puts them to bed, saving 2 hours of transition time. I am actually learning that there is a downside to running them all the time, as this sets up a thing called the Shade Avoidance Syndrome, where the plant will then display a set of responses, usually including elongation, early flowering, and increased apical dominance. A plant in the shades may also think the risk of death is too high and start flowering earlier and even increase its number of flowers to reproduce and pass its genetics on.

There is also the Emerson Effect to consider, which happens when exposing a plant to a combination of Deep-Red and Far-Red light. This can give a 30% higher photosynthesis rate than the sum of the Deep-Red light and Far-Red light photosynthesis rates. It seems this combination of lights triggers a hormonal change that is long term, and lasts much longer than the lights are actually on. This is why I am running the lights for 20 minutes on each side of the light change, instead of 2-10 minutes and why I chose a panel that had a combination of deep and far red lights..

I have not heard of a preferred wattage to run these lights at but considering the ultra penetration of the red light, I assumed that the amount needed to penetrate the canopy was much less than that of the main light. This allowed me to settle on one panel running at 30w, certainly enough to flood the entire room with deep and far red.
 
Emilya said:
The thing I keep getting from the studies on this is that the most important thing about this far red light is the timing. Some studies even indicate that 2 minutes before lights on and 2 minutes after the big lights go off, will do it. The morning shot finds the horizon for the plants and the evening puts them to bed, saving 2 hours of transition time. I am actually learning that there is a downside to running them all the time, as this sets up a thing called the Shade Avoidance Syndrome, where the plant will then display a set of responses, usually including elongation, early flowering, and increased apical dominance. A plant in the shades may also think the risk of death is too high and start flowering earlier and even increase its number of flowers to reproduce and pass its genetics on.

There is also the Emerson Effect to consider, which happens when exposing a plant to a combination of Deep-Red and Far-Red light. This can give a 30% higher photosynthesis rate than the sum of the Deep-Red light and Far-Red light photosynthesis rates. It seems this combination of lights triggers a hormonal change that is long term, and lasts much longer than the lights are actually on. This is why I am running the lights for 20 minutes on each side of the light change, instead of 2-10 minutes and why I chose a panel that had a combination of deep and far red lights..

I have not heard of a preferred wattage to run these lights at but considering the ultra penetration of the red light, I assumed that the amount needed to penetrate the canopy was much less than that of the main light. This allowed me to settle on one panel running at 30w, certainly enough to flood the entire room with deep and far red.
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Interesting, great information. Yeah it bathes the room alright, I was surprised how pronounced it is in the pictures. Timing huh? Curiouser and curiouser.....(CS Lewis).
 
Merry Christmas Emmybird

I hope your day is brimming with love, laughter, a sprinkle of sassy and carefully watered plants :)

You are the smartest girl I know and I feel so proud to be able to call you my friend. Xo
 
Trala said:
Merry Christmas Emmybird

I hope your day is brimming with love, laughter, a sprinkle of sassy and carefully watered plants :)

You are the smartest girl I know and I feel so proud to be able to call you my friend. Xo
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sorry I missed this before I went under the covid veil ... I have now recovered (mostly, still isolating) and things are getting back on track.

The plants have all gone through a couple of extended drought sessions because none of us had the energy to get up the stairs as often as we needed to. The thrips didn't like the treatment either, so that wasn't terrible, although the plants look like they have been through a war at the moment.

Today was the perfect day to get back to work, because it is @GeoFlora Nutrients feeding day in both bloom and veg. They got fed, watered and 5 MILLION beneficial nematodes were added to the entire grow area. I am sure that these 5 million warriors will do a much better job that I have been doing in chasing these thrips. I sort of feel sorry for them... their time is numbered.

We are at day 37 of bloom right now, and some of the buds are starting to really show it. Maybe in a day or two the plants will be pretty again so I can take some great pictures. For now, the buds look skimpy and abused, but I will admit that there is an awesome amount of trichomes building up on the buds... now to fatten them up quite a bit before harvest.
 
Do you have any thoughts on consciously draughting your plants in week 7? @Krissi1982 has a thread going based on research @Maritimer did and a scientific study he shared. Seems like the imposed stress materially increases trichome production. Looks like you're doing it in week 5. ;)

Pretty lively discussion over there and I know you've experimented with various things like black out periods and such, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts.
 
Azimuth said:
Do you have any thoughts on consciously draughting your plants in week 7? @Krissi1982 has a thread going based on research @Maritimer did and a scientific study he shared. Seems like the imposed stress materially increases trichome production. Looks like you're doing it in week 5. ;)

Pretty lively discussion over there and I know you've experimented with various things like black out periods and such, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts.
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Yes. All of the studies I have seen regarding this do not show an increase in quality because of this practice, no matter the stage of the grow that it occurs. After 11 days or so of mostly ignoring my plants, it is my belief that they look like crap because of it and probably would have more bulk and overall yield without stressing them out to this degree. It may be possible to grow like this, but I believe that being more attentive to their needs is better than what I have done here. Thankfully, the plant is just doing what it best knows to do to survive, so there are merits... I just think a side by side could have shown the true story.
 
Thanks. The published study did seem to do that, and showed a significant increase in cannabinoids, but it was a fairly limited study, limited to one type of soil mix for example.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. There are several growers that have noticed very good results when they tried it, but it's mostly anecdotal at this point, and I know you've done lots of experimenting so wanted to get your thoughts.
 
Emilya said:
sure do!
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WHOA.

I should have known. Of course you have this. And now that I see it, I understand the extent of your experiment here. Those are FAR reds. Wow. And just 30 watts of that spectrum lights the room up. I would have never expected that level of brightness, for lack of a better word. So when do you start the UV specific experiment, or in conjunction with these reds? After you gather the data from this run? Lol. Yup, I would expect you to get a noticeable frost increase from this, yes? What an interesting experiment.
 
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