Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
As “due” I. LOL.
Emmie's DIY CalMagPhos+ From Eggshells
Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
You bet! There is only about 50 milligrams of Mag in one tablespoon of molasses, so if you give your plant 1/2 a gallon that has one Tbsp of Mollases in it, that equates to Mag that would be about the size of a grain of rice.
I’ve been sucessfully using a homemade recipe which had 1/2 cup of the calcium solution, 1/3 cup molasses and 1/3 cup Epsom salt mixed together.
I feed my plants this mix at 5 ml per gallon (in addition to other nutes) every time I feed. I give three full feeds and the fourth is a plain PhD water only.
I haven’t killed any plants yet. But maybe I’ve just been lucky.
- Thread starter
- #183
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Yes, by putting those amounts of magnesium into your soil you are very lucky to not have suffered from Calcium and/or Potassium deficiencies due to the lockout that will be caused. Mulder's chart shows us why the advice you are giving here is not to be followed by anyone who understands the mineral interactions both good and bad, in soil.
Certainly your advice to dump massive amounts of epsom is disproven with this well known chart:
Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
Did you do any math on my formula?Yes, by putting those amounts of magnesium into your soil you are very lucky to not have suffered from Calcium and/or Potassium deficiencies due to the lockout that will be caused. Mulder's chart shows us why the advice you are giving here is not to be followed by anyone who understands the mineral interactions both good and bad, in soil.
Certainly your advice to dump massive amounts of epsom is disproven with this well known chart:
- Thread starter
- #185
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
No need to... I know it is bad advice and that in most cases adding too much magnesium is harmful and that it can totally screw up a grow to do as you suggest.
Maybe you should start up your own magnesium supplement thread and back up your advice with hundreds of people successfully using your recipe, as I have done here... maybe then we will investigate your math.
Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
Sorry to tread on your thread.
- Thread starter
- #187
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Since you are a writing critic and we are having fun, let me hit you with one of my pet peeves and one that you violated. A PhD is an honorary Doctorate Degree in Philosophy, and it means that the recipient has gained such a deep understanding of a subject that they are expected to contribute to the advancement of that field. It is a degree in Philosophy, specialized in the field of study and they are given the title of Dr. because of their advanced training and expected future contributions.
Maybe when describing pH as we use and understand it, it would be helpful to always use the proper capitalization, as I have done here. Then it is much more proper to say pH adjusted or even pH'd... but please don't use PhD to refer to water. Also, I enjoyed those pictures and that looked like it was an excellent harvest... but yes, you did sort of troll my thread. I'm good from here on if you are.
Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
Since you are a writing critic and we are having fun, let me hit you with one of my pet peeves and one that you violated. A PhD is an honorary Doctorate Degree in Philosophy, and it means that the recipient has gained such a deep understanding of a subject that they are expected to contribute to the advancement of that field. It is a degree in Philosophy, specialized in the field of study and they are given the title of Dr. because of their advanced training and expected future contributions.
Maybe when describing pH as we use and understand it, it would be helpful to always use the proper capitalization, as I have done here. Then it is much more proper to say pH adjusted or even pH'd... but please don't use PhD to refer to water. Also, I enjoyed those pictures and that looked like it was an excellent harvest... but yes, you did sort of troll my thread. I'm good from here on if you are.
Old ST1R
Well-Known Member
See you next Tuesday.Since you are a writing critic and we are having fun, let me hit you with one of my pet peeves and one that you violated. A PhD is an honorary Doctorate Degree in Philosophy, and it means that the recipient has gained such a deep understanding of a subject that they are expected to contribute to the advancement of that field. It is a degree in Philosophy, specialized in the field of study and they are given the title of Dr. because of their advanced training and expected future contributions.
Maybe when describing pH as we use and understand it, it would be helpful to always use the proper capitalization, as I have done here. Then it is much more proper to say pH adjusted or even pH'd... but please don't use PhD to refer to water. Also, I enjoyed those pictures and that looked like it was an excellent harvest... but yes, you did sort of troll my thread. I'm good from here on if you are.
Following the thread and recipe. Using the amount suggested I get about 5.7pH for the solution. Water out of the tap is around 7.2pH with a TDS of around 20ppm, so it doesn't take much to drop the pH. Is this a concern for a organic soil where the pH of the soil is roughly 7.0. Should I pH UP the solution a bit?
- Thread starter
- #191
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi New and welcome to the forum! 
The soil pH is right where it was factory set to be. That is not an issue. The only reason we pH adjust our solutions is so that we can be in the correct range so that our nutes can become mobile within the soil. That range is 6.2-6.8 for most nutes designed for soil, but there are others. People actually attempt to use hydro nutes in soil... the pH needs are different for those grows. Megacorp claims you don't need to adjust pH, but it does seem to work better centered at 6.0 pH. The point is however, that we adjust our pH for our nutes, not for matching the soil or anything else.
So if you are running an organic grow with your organic soil, and not using nutrients, then you have no need to pH adjust anything... so use the calmagphos+ as it is produced, freely and without fear. If you are using nutes however, you have to follow their rules for pH. Typically in a soil/nutrient scenario I would water once with water only and then every other time alternate with nutes, ie. water/nutes/water/nutes... all through the grow. If it is a nute session, I add all of my acidic nutes to the water, mix it up, and then finally before applying it to the soil, I pH adjust it to the low end of the scale, or 6.3 pH usually by using a pH up product. If it is a water only day, then I would use a pH down product to adjust my water down to 6.3 before applying.
The point is, the calmagphos+ is added during a nute session, and i am already adjusting the pH of that mix.... so yes, you do need to adjust before applying. Always use your column of water added to the soil as your means to artificially set the pH of your container of wet soil to the low end of the scale, or 6.3 pH. Then, the natural base pH of the soil will start to drift that pH upwards towards 7.0 as the soil starts to dry out, just as it was designed to do.
The soil pH is right where it was factory set to be. That is not an issue. The only reason we pH adjust our solutions is so that we can be in the correct range so that our nutes can become mobile within the soil. That range is 6.2-6.8 for most nutes designed for soil, but there are others. People actually attempt to use hydro nutes in soil... the pH needs are different for those grows. Megacorp claims you don't need to adjust pH, but it does seem to work better centered at 6.0 pH. The point is however, that we adjust our pH for our nutes, not for matching the soil or anything else.
So if you are running an organic grow with your organic soil, and not using nutrients, then you have no need to pH adjust anything... so use the calmagphos+ as it is produced, freely and without fear. If you are using nutes however, you have to follow their rules for pH. Typically in a soil/nutrient scenario I would water once with water only and then every other time alternate with nutes, ie. water/nutes/water/nutes... all through the grow. If it is a nute session, I add all of my acidic nutes to the water, mix it up, and then finally before applying it to the soil, I pH adjust it to the low end of the scale, or 6.3 pH usually by using a pH up product. If it is a water only day, then I would use a pH down product to adjust my water down to 6.3 before applying.
The point is, the calmagphos+ is added during a nute session, and i am already adjusting the pH of that mix.... so yes, you do need to adjust before applying. Always use your column of water added to the soil as your means to artificially set the pH of your container of wet soil to the low end of the scale, or 6.3 pH. Then, the natural base pH of the soil will start to drift that pH upwards towards 7.0 as the soil starts to dry out, just as it was designed to do.
Thanks for the advice Emilya. As I understand it and may be wrong the ph upon application will be somewhere in between the water column mix and the soil upon application. So if I ph my water/molasses or your recipe to say 6.0 and drench the soil, the roots would see a ph initially of around 6.0 and as the soil dries out it would rise to the natural pH of the organic soil at around 7.0. This should allow a range of pH to allow different minerals to be better absorbed by the roots. Minerals like iron and zinc would be better absorbed a the lower ph and as the ph of the soil rises as it begins to dry minerals like calcium would be better absorbed?
So in short I should just slightly pH the water/molasses mix or your recipe to low 6ish and let the organic soil just do it's magic?
So in short I should just slightly pH the water/molasses mix or your recipe to low 6ish and let the organic soil just do it's magic?
- Thread starter
- #193
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Not quite right but you are close, just overthinking things a bit. First off, math is our friend when it comes to issues such as this. While it is true that the reaction starts immediately and that the pH drift in the column of water begins upon application, it happens much slower than you are thinking and not all of the drift is seen in an actual conversion. First, the math.
Consider the molecular weight of the pH adjusted water in that column as compared to the weight of everything else in that container. The water has hundreds of times more influence on the pH of that saturation than anything else in there. The 10 to 1 rule tells us that we could then ignore the pH of the lesser side, especially since the actual ratio is a lot more than just 10:1 This scientific method informs us that when we water, the saturated column of water/soil/dolomite and whatnot, is the pH of the water at that moment.
So the reaction does start right away at multiple points in that column and the pH does begin to drift upwards. In the first 12 hours or so, you will have lost a half a tenth of a pH point. During that first 12 hours, and indeed the whole first day you are picking up the heavy metals that are most mobile down at the low end of the range along with everything else, because again the math informs us that more elements are more mobile at 6.3 pH than at any other point.
But...
That is just part of the magic going on...
The soil also is drifting upwards toward its base pH as it dries. This really accelerates the pH drift, and once the soil starts to lose the influence of the lower pH adjusted fluid, the upward rise toward 6.8 is much more rapid than the drift seen at the beginning. The further you get away from the 6.3 hotspot, the less mobile the nutes become.
So your idea of starting out low is not a bad one, just not necessary... and what you are proposing is to spend that first 12-24 hours totally outside of the usable soil range hoping for the organics to change the pH you came in at. Rethink your originating premise here and consider that 6.3 is the hotspot you are shooting for and want to stay at for the longest time... not 6.0 or even lower. It isn't a fact that lower pH is better or we would advise people to pH down into the hydro range as you are proposing. The hotspot for all nutrients is 6.3... been that way forever. Shoot for that spot, and due to the physics of that column of water, you get to stay at whatever point you come in at, the longest.
Thanks Emilya, very informative. I see a lot of organic growers suggest not even bothering to pH water which I always found a little strange. The premise is to let the pH of the soil dictate vs the pH of the water. But tap water can vary so much in terms of pH. I always thought it was best to pH somewhere in the 6.x range, I will shoot for 6.30
On another note is there any reason one can not use the recipe to apply a foliar feed if needed for calcium?
On another note is there any reason one can not use the recipe to apply a foliar feed if needed for calcium?
- Thread starter
- #195
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
again... the only reason to pH is if the nutes need to be set to a certain range to become active. Truly organic growers rely on the microbes to feed the plants and they don't need any special pH requirements.
There is no reason at all why you can't foliar feed using this calmagphos+ Because of the fermentation, the calcium is in a form that the plants can directly use, even through the leaves.
There is no reason at all why you can't foliar feed using this calmagphos+ Because of the fermentation, the calcium is in a form that the plants can directly use, even through the leaves.
- Thread starter
- #197
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Maybe if I told you that the plant's internal pH is 6.1 you might assume something else as to where you should adjust for best absorption? It doesn't matter how much you read on this, what matters is that you read the right stuff. As far as TDS, I don't have a clue because I am a soil grower and should not need a TDS meter. Just dilute the stuff to about 1 tsp/gal and you should be fine... its not like this is an exact science.
Michigan Grower
420 Member
Hold the phone, Jack Knob! You're way out of line!
BudShark
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I have been just boiling eggs after they are cleaned and powdered, I usually add a few banana peels and a tablespoon of molasses in the boil, strain and feed 1 part to 3 parts water. This method is not as concentrated as your method. I have just completed reading this whole thread and will be making a bottle of this mix. Mine is more like a tea than a supplement. Cheers and Thanks
- Thread starter
- #200
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi BudShark, and welcome to the forum!
Yes, you have just seen the difference between grinding something up really really small and then either dissolving it or taking the water soluble bits out of it, and fermentation. Fermentation unlocks the entire structure and releases all of the trace elements, enzymes, amino acids and vitamins into the mix too, and who knows what else... and of course you are also bringing in all the good stuff in the apple cider vinegar too! Glad you have found your way to my thread. You are going to like what this product does for your plants!
Cheers and good luck!