StoneyMemoirs
Well-Known Member
Hey Amy,
In my experience and according to Doc, no. I've had some stuff here for over 1.5 years, no issues...don't think that's it.
Hey Amy,
In my experience and according to Doc, no. I've had some stuff here for over 1.5 years, no issues...don't think that's it.
According to Doc, in my case it may be a lack of nutrients in the soil at CAT, which led to starvation.
Thank you Graytail.
I do two plain waterings, well.... 2 TransWater drenches, between regular drenches. I'll switch back to only one water and be able to fit in more Transplant during veg.
That may solve my problem. I don't know about the others. He says Duggan's problem is the soil being overused, but how to explain Gazoo? Doc left a list of potential problems at the Lab - using fabric pots, transplanting too early, or twice, so the root ball isn't fully established, overusing foliars, not using enough Transplant in veg. Of the list I fit the fabric pots - which I doubt is the problem - and the lack of adequate Transplant drenching.
The kit is tremendously reliable, that's why we all use it. It could be something as simple as getting the drench schedules wrong, which isn't such a simple thing, is it? I have two happy girls in this soil. I'm going to take a courageous breath and keep using the kit as directed, with this small adjustment, and expect it to settle into something less stressful.
"but how to explain Gazoo?" If Gazoo followed those "MaxYield instructions" that he posted yesterday, that is probably the answer! I had the same thing happen with those instructions last year, some cultivars were more sensitive than others....too much foliar too often, no solid TP drenches in veg, etc...
StoneyMemoirs
Well-Known Member
Gang, a quick update: Just got off the phone with Doc--he's in agreement with you here Dopy.
He's eliminating variables left and right, checking who ordered products from what batches, etc. It sounds like so far, he has found no correlation with batches and the folks experiencing issues, which leads us to believe, so far, that (per the usual) the Kit products themselves are not to blame.
As we know Doc's partial to plastic pots, but hey--I grow in fabric, and my plants LOVE the kit. We don't necessarily think that's it, but it *might* be a contributing factor. Another (almost certainly) contributing factor is not using Transplant Drench in veg--Doc reminded me this is absolutely essential. Then, yet another variable we need to isolate may be over-spraying the foliars, and then of course odd environmental factors. I wonder what actual soil temps we all have?
What I know for sure: Spraying and then directly throwing plants under lights tends to lead to crispy leaves. Spraying too often, or at too high a concentration also tends to lead to crispy leaves.
I personally spray Brix 1x a week, and don't touch De-Stress unless the leaves stop shining. I use both right at or under the recommended dosage (I like half-strength for de-stress), and only have issues if I spill drench/spray on the leaves, or if, as I mentioned above, I spray during light's on.
--Stoney
Gazoo
Member
I have a temp gauge (cord type) that was placed at the rootball during up-pot temps are fine
if its the foliar maybe we should raise our lights up for a few hours after foliar ?
Won't be able to contribute much more I did the DEED they are now gone
next grow will be in all plastic and complete dark cycle.
Hey everyone, sorry to just jump in here... I don't have much to add except... usually after I spray foilars, and I try to keep it on the underside but we all know some settles on top of the leaves too, I'll give my ladies a light shake to help the larger droplets fall. I'm only my first run, but I have zero burned leaves and I spray about an hour after lights on. I spray at 1ml per oz of water for Brix and De-Stress... no issues so far.
Here's what I can come up with so far, using my reasoning/diagnostic mind that I use in my practice as well as my grow room:
It boils down to this: If you hear hoofbeats, think "horses" not "zebras." Another way of putting it for those who have some philosophy learnin': Occam's Razor. Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.
We're all using the kit with the new formulas. Not all of us are having problems. This means that the products are not the "likely" culprits.
We're all using Promix. Ditto the logic above. We're trying to ascertain if there has been a change (it would have to be a HUGE change) in Promix. Those of you with trouble, if you have the ability to read your Promix labels, is there anything but Peat, Dolomite and Calcitic Limestone in them? The wetting agent is not an issue.
We're all in decent environments. No cold slabs, no excessive heat or lack of moisture.
Thes above are the things we have in common.
Now, as to the problems:
1. Fabric pots. While not everyone growing in fabric is having trouble, ALL those who are having issues are in fabric pots. This is worth looking into.
2. Drench schedule: We should alternate drenches througout the cycle. This you can blame on me for not having more clear instructions. If you're not using Transplant in veg, like in a drench, not 1/4 strength Transwater, you will have trouble. I've explained why elsewhere, but basically the biota needs regular food and Transplant is the source of that food. GE is different. While you can grow an entire crop on nothing but GE, if you do that and then do a Cat Drench.....trouble will come, because CAT is mostly Transplant.
3. Foliar feeding. If you do it too much and too often, especially if you add Snake Oil each and every time, you're going to have trouble.
4. Transplanting too often with underdeveloped roots. This is going to injure the soil food web and the roots, which will lead to trouble.
If you're doing 1-4 above.....you're going to have trouble.
I think, due to the nature of the forum and our collective mind on growing, that perhaps a handful of people have all been kind of helping and guiding each other into the same things, including 1-4 above.....and those folks are having trouble.
Is this the exact solution we're looking for? I don't know yet.....but the logical way to find out is to deal with these issues as I've laid them out. Again, I'm not having problems of this sort, neither is my helper, and neither are the vast majority of High Brix growers.
Are these problems real? Yep. they sure are.
I am taking this VERY seriously and we will find the solutions. We always do.
Until then, I suggest mitigating 1-4 above and seeing what the outcome is. The reason I suggest this is because in my garden:
all hard plastic
transplant every other drench
foliar sprays not excessively applied
massive rootball prior to Transplanting
and no issues.
^^^these are from yesterday, 3rd run soil.
Buckshot317
Plant of the Month: Mar 2018
I spray with lights on, sometimes in middle and end of day, just whenever I can. Only used destress once, but do use it on all my cuttings. Also I never water till runoff, maybe once a month I'll give girls a light flushing. I've always done watering this way even with synthetics.
So Doc, to be clear, all through the grow cycle we should be doing: Growth Energy + tea, water +1/4transplant, transplant + tea, then water + 1/4 transplant, etc... etc...? Seems right.
I have not been doing this either and just have GE yesterday... so my next will be water with 1/4 trans... or should I go ahead and do a transplant drench first since I haven't been doing them? I don't wanna have problem when I do the Cats. Probably better to do the water with 1/4 trans and catch the transplant drench after that... idk
That's exactly what I do. I'm mystified as to why some folks like to massively change it, but usually things work out OK.
I alternate drenches. Always. That's how they're supposed to work.
If you're not showing any signs of over-feeding, I'd go ahead with a lightish Transplant drench on the next watering. It's a different form of Nitrogen and the soil needs the goodies from the fish.
Use Transplant when you transplant....or for the first drench after transplanting if you use water for the initial moistening of the freshly transplanted plant.
Definitely get at least 2 TP in veg and at least one before Cat and you should be just fine!
Duggan Does C&N's Devils Carnival - With Doc's Gear
I did do the transplant drench after transplanting... so I guess I messed up... yesterday shoulda been a water with 1/4 transplant then next time would have been Growth Energy with tea...
Sorry about that Doc, so since I already did the trans plant I should be ok. I'll Start, from now on, alternating the drenches. I guess that's what was wrong with my ladies while they were in veg... no transplant drenches... that's why they kept going yellow down low and I would have to rescue drench them. I am so happy that's clear Now!!!
I did do the transplant drench after transplanting... so I guess I messed up... yesterday shoulda been a water with 1/4 transplant then next time would have been Growth Energy with tea...
Sorry about that Doc, so since I already did the trans plant I should be ok. I'll Start, from now on, alternating the drenches. I guess that's what was wrong with my ladies while they were in veg... no transplant drenches... that's why they kept going yellow down low and I would have to rescue drench them. I am so happy that's clear Now!!!
Mag7
Well-Known Member
Ok ok ok ok.... from what I see from what I hear is that I did this.
In my first grow I overwatered and created a problem of low soil energy and instead of a rescue drench I did a transplant from plastic 1 gal to fabric 7 gal. The roots were brown and very undeveloped in all the plants that were transplanted.
After the transplant they regained health and grew stronger and healthier.
It wasn't until weeks after CD that my leaves began to go crispy on the PP and a little on the Panama. I then began the destress foliar. But I mixed up the direction. I mixed 1ml per OZ. If I'm correct Doc that mix should be no more than .5ml per oz of RO?? If this is the case it was to strong. I also had a heavy hand and misting was not a mist .... I was doing this every 5 days or so. At some point I realized it was the destress because I was only spraying the PP but the misting was landing on the Panama and you could see how it was burning just the edges of the plant and fully on the other plant. So this is one problem solved for me.
But I also had Duggan scold me lol for not filling my fabric pots all the way up. So I then decided I would up pop the plants and add more soil under the plants and not to the top soil .... palm slap to the forehead..... but when I did this I noticed the root development was not near what it should have been even with air pruning. The soil was extremely disturbed in my opinion. Sooooo obviously this added more stress. So what did I do???? More destress... and in just few days all my plants were fried. Not the flowers just the leaves.
I have continuously alternated drenches and never gone away from that schedule. That's what makes it easy and not confusing to me. What my issue was or is is watering. Because obviously my roots have not been good for transplanting, not once, not ever.
I think our problem consist of 1-4 that doc posted for sure. I got all the categories. I made the destress mistake only once during this grow and I saw the burn start to appear and I haven't don't it that strength since and I haven't had an issue since in my Grow tent. I do believe that my roots even now would be what I want once I harvest.
What I believe is the main factor is the roots. I believe this because it's the only thing that correlate with my outside plants. All the plants puts side had crap roots when they were put into the soil. But the problem didn't persist or get worse. I'm guessing this is because I didn't give hardly any nutrients and only one destress foliar. These plants are just there. Cuttings that just happened to survive so let's see what happens; that kind of situation.
So as we are all doing something different, I wonder what all of your roots systems look like with peoples right now. Mine were garbage after harvest.
In my first grow I overwatered and created a problem of low soil energy and instead of a rescue drench I did a transplant from plastic 1 gal to fabric 7 gal. The roots were brown and very undeveloped in all the plants that were transplanted.
After the transplant they regained health and grew stronger and healthier.
It wasn't until weeks after CD that my leaves began to go crispy on the PP and a little on the Panama. I then began the destress foliar. But I mixed up the direction. I mixed 1ml per OZ. If I'm correct Doc that mix should be no more than .5ml per oz of RO?? If this is the case it was to strong. I also had a heavy hand and misting was not a mist .... I was doing this every 5 days or so. At some point I realized it was the destress because I was only spraying the PP but the misting was landing on the Panama and you could see how it was burning just the edges of the plant and fully on the other plant. So this is one problem solved for me.
But I also had Duggan scold me lol for not filling my fabric pots all the way up. So I then decided I would up pop the plants and add more soil under the plants and not to the top soil .... palm slap to the forehead..... but when I did this I noticed the root development was not near what it should have been even with air pruning. The soil was extremely disturbed in my opinion. Sooooo obviously this added more stress. So what did I do???? More destress... and in just few days all my plants were fried. Not the flowers just the leaves.
I have continuously alternated drenches and never gone away from that schedule. That's what makes it easy and not confusing to me. What my issue was or is is watering. Because obviously my roots have not been good for transplanting, not once, not ever.
I think our problem consist of 1-4 that doc posted for sure. I got all the categories. I made the destress mistake only once during this grow and I saw the burn start to appear and I haven't don't it that strength since and I haven't had an issue since in my Grow tent. I do believe that my roots even now would be what I want once I harvest.
What I believe is the main factor is the roots. I believe this because it's the only thing that correlate with my outside plants. All the plants puts side had crap roots when they were put into the soil. But the problem didn't persist or get worse. I'm guessing this is because I didn't give hardly any nutrients and only one destress foliar. These plants are just there. Cuttings that just happened to survive so let's see what happens; that kind of situation.
So as we are all doing something different, I wonder what all of your roots systems look like with peoples right now. Mine were garbage after harvest.
- Thread starter
- #994
Everyone knows how i feel about following Doc's. directions. I've repeated this part over a few times....alternate Drenches all thru growth with two waterings between. That was /is not the issue i had this time. I figured out that this 3rd. run soil has a minimum of 90 pounds EWC's in those two pots! 30, 30 and another 30 , plus handfuls and handfuls of leaves , roots and stems. Way too much organic matter for the microbes to thrive. Soil should have been 'cut' with some PM and the EWC's. eliminated or at least drastically reduced for the third 'cook'. I was also using Snake Oil when it wasn't required. I'm also gonna wait another ful day between waterings during veg. I feel that this grow has been a good learning experience for me/us and now , thanks to Doc's guidance , we are all a bit wiser for it! cheers gang...oh BTW , my four DC's. are getting very frosty...
Arctic Bowl
Well-Known Member
Heya Duggs and gang
Very glad to see that cooler heads prevail yet again
Been having issues with the sight last few days for some reason, wouldn't allow me to refresh screen or go to next page so said F it out of frustration lol. Would be very easy to just say that something went wrong with the kit and hang Doc out to dry ( childish as that is) it's very refreshing for us at least, that this didn't happen here on the Mag and that although there is frustration the fantastic members here showed yet again they are bigger than the childish hog wash that goes on in our world every day. Everyone pat yourself on the backs! Docs not here to shame the very people that are a part of this, I'm 100000% convinced of that and we have all had off the planet results in quality for a good bit of time in our Buds. Am I a Doc cheerleader? F*#k yes I am, and will continue to be. Will problems come up from time to time.......maybe? But if they do show up, and the group all keeps positive attitudes the results will be as our snobby asss have come to expect from the DBHBB. We ain't going no where!
- Thread starter
- #996
Well now, that's some wise words there D & J! So glad your around these parts D ...Your positive outlook and reinforcing is very welcome , ...as always sir! Yes,...our group we have is special , for sure...you are all my brothas ,..on our journey!
Morning Duggs. I'm glad your plants are doing better. They look like they are going to be very potent. I really like the buzz from the DC. I'm interested to see if the purple one is any different than the green. Mine was green and it is a very sativa buzz. Very energetic, it's good in the morning with a cup of joe.
Gotta get busy, I'm chopping the Bluniverse today and gotta make a soil run. Time to mix up about 3 kits worth and get them cooking. Of course I waited til it got cold out to mix soil. Have a good weekend bud!
Gotta get busy, I'm chopping the Bluniverse today and gotta make a soil run. Time to mix up about 3 kits worth and get them cooking. Of course I waited til it got cold out to mix soil. Have a good weekend bud!
- Thread starter
- #998
Ya...you are a lot like me...wait till it's fuggin cold out...LMAO! 3 kits worth . That's a lot of dirt bud! Have fun with that!
Yes , the DC's. are getting very frosty and i 'm pretty sure this crop will be OK now! They've had a lot of water run thru them these last two big drinks, so....I'm not quite sure what to give them different ,..if anything. This is the time i usually give GE but feel they need some TP..so dunno yet. Have fun today Neiko!
Ya...you are a lot like me...wait till it's fuggin cold out...LMAO! 3 kits worth . That's a lot of dirt bud! Have fun with that!
Yes , the DC's. are getting very frosty and i 'm pretty sure this crop will be OK now! They've had a lot of water run thru them these last two big drinks, so....I'm not quite sure what to give them different ,..if anything. This is the time i usually give GE but feel they need some TP..so dunno yet. Have fun today Neiko!
My DC is one of the most potent chemovars I've grown. Jgrowlove said it was the strongest one gram of cannabis he'd ever smoked. It's also a green pheno and the buds get so frosty it's startling. You're gonna like the effect Duggan.
I love the buzz, but I love Canival's buzz better. It's delightful to have so many options to choose from.
Made me smile to read the last few pages. I know I can sometimes be loud and obnoxious, but in this case I believe that's what got this out in the open. Now we all have a clearer vision of what's going on. I learned so much in the past two days.....
Thank you guys. Makes me proud to stand among you.
Thank you guys. Makes me proud to stand among you.