Back dripping in what we crave! Krissi!
Droughting and its medicinal effects in cannabis
- Thread starter Krissi Carbone
- Start date
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- #1,142
Oh I laughed so hard out loud on this one!
Much appreciated Niv, much good juju and vibes sent right back to you!
Wouldn't want to be doing anything else Stone!
Like I said guys and gals, I've got one more seed to pop and journal to start up and then it's back to torturing our plants...in a good way!
I've just completed the hydro droughting grow. You can get the specifics here.
Hafta's multi-stage harvest and droughting
Hafta's multi-stage harvest and droughting
- Thread starter
- #1,144
OK guys and gals I am all caught up on here just wanted to make sure everyone knew I wasn't gone again. It's 140 in the morning now though and I've been up since 515 but I really wanted to read through everything before I went to sleep.
Clearly, I am not going to go back to every comment over the last 2 months but I'll touch base tomorrow.
Superb documentations from @Stunger @LKABudMan @Hafta (I just finished catching up on your thread also, btw). Remarkable positive energy from most of you...you know I got nothing but love even for the haters
Thanks to @Azimuth @Maritimer @Stunger @Rexer for taking over in my absence and I'm glad all of the newcomers and their questions were handled with such intricacy and attention to detail and most importantly, with an open mind.
Salute
Clearly, I am not going to go back to every comment over the last 2 months but I'll touch base tomorrow.
Superb documentations from @Stunger @LKABudMan @Hafta (I just finished catching up on your thread also, btw). Remarkable positive energy from most of you...you know I got nothing but love even for the haters
Thanks to @Azimuth @Maritimer @Stunger @Rexer for taking over in my absence and I'm glad all of the newcomers and their questions were handled with such intricacy and attention to detail and most importantly, with an open mind.
Salute
- Thread starter
- #1,145
Like I said guys and gals, I'm not about to go through all of these comments as you all handled everything better than I ever could have myself in my absence.
Instead, I'd like to just throw out the significance of what we are doing here. The illumination of a dark cannabis sky, opening up opportunities for medicinal optimism as we battle this war on pain, both emotionally and physically.
Droughting is making moves. The ocean is talking and researching and we are right in the midst of it all. We are the pioneers, the evolutionists, the theorists, the scientists, the movers and the growers.
It is no secret that this is a hard stressor on a plant. No one is saying that you would never overkill a plant and cause it to hermie. No one is saying that under different environmental and growing conditions in different mediums, that the chance for plant morbidity is off the table. No one is saying this is the right way and no one is saying this is the only way to increase cannabinoid profiles. No one is saying that a fantastic regular grow doesn't offer up some killer buds that would couch lock a novice. What we are saying here is let's figure this out together. What we are saying is after our own experiments and experiences, we are seeing and feeling it's benefits.
I want to hit on that. The feeling of it.
I see this often here, a lot of people open to the idea but turned off because they say well I SEE my plants and they look just as good as yours...in more words or less..
In fact they do and I bet they look 100% better from afar too around week 8 of flower than ours do. What I don't bet, is that if you hit a droughted smoke and then hit a non droughted smoke, that you would have the same cerebral and physiological effects.
This technique is a game changer.
I researched some stuff early this morning just wanting to enlighten the masses to the extent this droughting technique is reaching. To see the questions it is bringing up. To see the research worldwide that has began documenting not just abiotic stressors but droughting, in particular.
Studies, plural, that are showing the effects of droughting on our cannabinoid profiles and that this abiotic stress shows more of a significant change in terpene and other profiles than any other stressor that came before it.
Few different excerpts from a few different reads. One in which discusses the heavy stress that droughting takes on a plant and its ability to photosynthesize and precautionary measures that should be taken to help ensure the plants overall "fitness" as @Maritimer likes to call it, (i.e adding unicanazole to non-soil grows to help roots handle the drought)
Salute....
In general, environmental conditions, including different types of stresses, are known to affect secondary metabolism in plants. Numerous studies, generated on various plants, have shown that terpenes are affected by various environmental factors such as drought, temperature fluctuations or pathogen attack; which rearrange the biosynthesis and emission of the terpenes (Block et al., 2019, Kopaczyk et al., 2020, Mahdavi et al., 2020, Zhou et al., 2020). The effect of abiotic environmental changes on cannabinoids and terpenes in cannabis plants was relatively studied (Gorelick and Bernstein, 2017, Landi et al., 2019, Magagnini et al., 2018), however the effect of biotic stress on cannabinoid and terpene composition in cannabis plants was not studied yet.
To investigate the effects of short-term environmental stresses on the onset of cannabinoid production in young immature flowers, a hemp variety, Green-Thunder (5–8% CBD/mg of dry weight), was treated with mechanical damage, insect herbivory, extreme heat, or drought stress for 5–7 days during the first 2 weeks of flowering.
Three hemp tissues, including flowers, leaves, and stems, were collected from hemp grown under these stress conditions at multiple time points during the first 2 weeks after transition to the short photoperiod and analyzed using high pressure liquid chromatography to quantify phytocannabinoids including cannabigerolic acid (CBGA), cannabigerol (CBG), cannabidiolic acid (CBDA), cannabidiol (CBD), Δ-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA), Δ-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), and cannabinol (CBN).
Uniconazole (S-(+)-uniconazole), a plant growth retardant, exerts key roles in modulating growth and development and increasing abiotic stress tolerance in plants. However, the underlying mechanisms by which uniconazole regulates drought response remain largely unknown. Here, the effects of exogenous uniconazole on drought tolerance in hemp were studied via physiological and transcriptome analyses of the drought-sensitive industrial hemp cultivar Hanma No. 2 grown under drought stress.
Exogenous uniconazole treatment increased hemp tolerance to drought-induced damage by enhancing chlorophyll content and photosynthesis capacity, regulating activities of enzymes involved in carbon and nitrogen metabolism, and altering endogenous hormone levels.
Expression of genes associated with porphyrin and chlorophyll metabolism, photosynthesis-antenna proteins, photosynthesis, starch and sucrose metabolism, nitrogen metabolism, and plant hormone signal transduction were significantly regulated by uniconazole compared with that by control (distilled water) under drought stress. Numerous genes were differentially expressed to increase chlorophyll content, enhance photosynthesis, regulate carbon–nitrogen metabolism-related enzyme activities, and alter endogenous hormone levels. Thus, uniconazole regulated physiological and molecular characteristics of photosynthesis, carbon–nitrogen metabolism, and plant hormone signal transduction to enhance drought resistance in industrial hemp.
And so, we study....
Once again, I apologize for my absence
Instead, I'd like to just throw out the significance of what we are doing here. The illumination of a dark cannabis sky, opening up opportunities for medicinal optimism as we battle this war on pain, both emotionally and physically.
Droughting is making moves. The ocean is talking and researching and we are right in the midst of it all. We are the pioneers, the evolutionists, the theorists, the scientists, the movers and the growers.
It is no secret that this is a hard stressor on a plant. No one is saying that you would never overkill a plant and cause it to hermie. No one is saying that under different environmental and growing conditions in different mediums, that the chance for plant morbidity is off the table. No one is saying this is the right way and no one is saying this is the only way to increase cannabinoid profiles. No one is saying that a fantastic regular grow doesn't offer up some killer buds that would couch lock a novice. What we are saying here is let's figure this out together. What we are saying is after our own experiments and experiences, we are seeing and feeling it's benefits.
I want to hit on that. The feeling of it.
I see this often here, a lot of people open to the idea but turned off because they say well I SEE my plants and they look just as good as yours...in more words or less..
In fact they do and I bet they look 100% better from afar too around week 8 of flower than ours do. What I don't bet, is that if you hit a droughted smoke and then hit a non droughted smoke, that you would have the same cerebral and physiological effects.
This technique is a game changer.
I researched some stuff early this morning just wanting to enlighten the masses to the extent this droughting technique is reaching. To see the questions it is bringing up. To see the research worldwide that has began documenting not just abiotic stressors but droughting, in particular.
Studies, plural, that are showing the effects of droughting on our cannabinoid profiles and that this abiotic stress shows more of a significant change in terpene and other profiles than any other stressor that came before it.
Few different excerpts from a few different reads. One in which discusses the heavy stress that droughting takes on a plant and its ability to photosynthesize and precautionary measures that should be taken to help ensure the plants overall "fitness" as @Maritimer likes to call it, (i.e adding unicanazole to non-soil grows to help roots handle the drought)
Salute....
In general, environmental conditions, including different types of stresses, are known to affect secondary metabolism in plants. Numerous studies, generated on various plants, have shown that terpenes are affected by various environmental factors such as drought, temperature fluctuations or pathogen attack; which rearrange the biosynthesis and emission of the terpenes (Block et al., 2019, Kopaczyk et al., 2020, Mahdavi et al., 2020, Zhou et al., 2020). The effect of abiotic environmental changes on cannabinoids and terpenes in cannabis plants was relatively studied (Gorelick and Bernstein, 2017, Landi et al., 2019, Magagnini et al., 2018), however the effect of biotic stress on cannabinoid and terpene composition in cannabis plants was not studied yet.
To investigate the effects of short-term environmental stresses on the onset of cannabinoid production in young immature flowers, a hemp variety, Green-Thunder (5–8% CBD/mg of dry weight), was treated with mechanical damage, insect herbivory, extreme heat, or drought stress for 5–7 days during the first 2 weeks of flowering.
Three hemp tissues, including flowers, leaves, and stems, were collected from hemp grown under these stress conditions at multiple time points during the first 2 weeks after transition to the short photoperiod and analyzed using high pressure liquid chromatography to quantify phytocannabinoids including cannabigerolic acid (CBGA), cannabigerol (CBG), cannabidiolic acid (CBDA), cannabidiol (CBD), Δ-tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA), Δ-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), and cannabinol (CBN).
The 5 days of mechanical wounding did not affect the production of any of the cannabinoids during the initial stage of flowering. However, after 5 days of herbivore treatment, there was a significant difference in concentration between day 1 and day 6 of CBGA (control: 308 μg/g; treatment – 24 μg/g), CBG (control: 69 μg/g; treatment: 52 μg/g), and CBD (control: 755 μg/g; treatment: 194 μg/g) between the control and treatment plants. The 7 days of heat treatment at 45–50 oC significantly reduced the production of CBGA during this observed window (control: 206 μg/g; treatment: 182 μg/g) and CBG (control: 21 μg/g; treatment: − 112 μg/g). Notably, the largest change was observed after 7 days of drought stress, when plants showed a 40% greater accumulation of CBG (control: 336 μg/g; treatment: 622 μg/g), and a significant decrease (70–80%) in CBD (control: 1182 μg/g; treatment: 297 μg/g) and THC amounts (control: 3927 μg/g; treatment: 580 μg/g).Conclusions:
Although this observation is limited in the early flowering stage, the common field stresses are adequate to induce changes in the cannabinoid profiles, particularly drought stress being the most impactful stress for hemp flower initiation with the altering the cannabinoid production by decreasing CBD and THC accumulation while increasing CBG by 40%.Uniconazole (S-(+)-uniconazole), a plant growth retardant, exerts key roles in modulating growth and development and increasing abiotic stress tolerance in plants. However, the underlying mechanisms by which uniconazole regulates drought response remain largely unknown. Here, the effects of exogenous uniconazole on drought tolerance in hemp were studied via physiological and transcriptome analyses of the drought-sensitive industrial hemp cultivar Hanma No. 2 grown under drought stress.
Exogenous uniconazole treatment increased hemp tolerance to drought-induced damage by enhancing chlorophyll content and photosynthesis capacity, regulating activities of enzymes involved in carbon and nitrogen metabolism, and altering endogenous hormone levels.
Expression of genes associated with porphyrin and chlorophyll metabolism, photosynthesis-antenna proteins, photosynthesis, starch and sucrose metabolism, nitrogen metabolism, and plant hormone signal transduction were significantly regulated by uniconazole compared with that by control (distilled water) under drought stress. Numerous genes were differentially expressed to increase chlorophyll content, enhance photosynthesis, regulate carbon–nitrogen metabolism-related enzyme activities, and alter endogenous hormone levels. Thus, uniconazole regulated physiological and molecular characteristics of photosynthesis, carbon–nitrogen metabolism, and plant hormone signal transduction to enhance drought resistance in industrial hemp.
Drought stress, an abiotic stress, has more important effects on crop yield and quality compared to other abiotic stresses, inducing a highly vulnerable state in plants.
Carbon metabolism must be tightly regulated to enhance drought resistance in plants by changing starch content, with extensive accumulation of soluble sugar and sucrose, and inverting sucrose catalyzed by sucrose synthase (SS) and sucrose phosphate synthase (SPS).
Nitrogen metabolism is closely related to photosynthesis and carbon metabolism and is significant for plants adapting to environmental changes.
The activities of key enzymes involved in N metabolism may play a major role in plant photosynthetic adaptation under drought stress
Tolerance to drought stress is also manifested as increased levels of drought-responsive proteins and the expression of genes involved in signal transduction
Plants initiate a series of morphological, molecular, and physiological and biochemical changes such as hormone regulation and gene expression to tolerate drought stress.
It is thus vital to study the mechanisms underlying drought conditions in an effort to keep improving agricultural production
And so, we study....
Once again, I apologize for my absence
Hi @Krissi1982, this is great news just a shame that I do not understand the professional expressions but it can catch up, but something I heard. I just thought that stressing dry does until the end of growth and not that the beginning?
- Thread starter
- #1,147
I don't understand most of it I have to look up things I look up.
Yes, our drought here is towards the end of flower not the beginning good Sir. I just found these excerpts great because people are trying to study this from all angles now and it really is becoming a major topic point in the scientific fields. We are going off one study. Just think what we can do bringing in information from all of these great studies!
Makes my green heart happy
- Thread starter
- #1,148
And oh yea, about them droughted buds...
NYC Diesel, Limelight (drought documented in March) now cured up
NYC Diesel, Limelight (drought documented in March) now cured up
Wow, that looks incredible. When did you start stressing her with Sukhumi and how long did you stress her out? I'm sorry to ask, I'm quite interested when I publish your resultAnd oh yea, about them droughted buds...
NYC Diesel, Limelight (drought documented in March) now cured up
.- Thread starter
- #1,150
It all starts hereWow, that looks incredible. When did you start stressing her with Sukhumi and how long did you stress her out? I'm sorry to ask, I'm quite interested when I publish your result
LIMELIGHT DOCUMENTED DROUGHT
She was late week 7 of flower if I remember correctly she only went 4 days she finished super quick as soon as she started droughting
Nice find! I'm like most of us and understand some of the big numbers! Not exactly the science. Sticky looking buds there Krissi! The show a huge boost in some of what we're interested in! You're right, it's nice to get more heads in this. Thanks Krissi!
- Thread starter
- #1,152
Thanks Stone! Absolutely provides us with stepping stools to different tables of play in this droughting game. We have much to learn and offer I really firmly believe that!
As for the buds, for sure. She was like cobwebbed. It was an incredible drought
Mudballs
Well-Known Member
The 5 days of mechanical wounding did not affect the production of any of the cannabinoids during the initial stage of flowering. However, after 5 days of herbivore treatment, there was a significant difference in concentration between day 1 and day 6 of CBGA (control: 308 μg/g; treatment – 24 μg/g), CBG (control: 69 μg/g; treatment: 52 μg/g), and CBD (control: 755 μg/g; treatment: 194 μg/g) between the control and treatment plants. The 7 days of heat treatment at 45–50 oC significantly reduced the production of CBGA during this observed window (control: 206 μg/g; treatment: 182 μg/g) and CBG (control: 21 μg/g; treatment: − 112 μg/g). Notably, the largest change was observed after 7 days of drought stress, when plants showed a 40% greater accumulation of CBG (control: 336 μg/g; treatment: 622 μg/g), and a significant decrease (70–80%) in CBD (control: 1182 μg/g; treatment: 297 μg/g) and THC amounts (control: 3927 μg/g; treatment: 580 μg/g).
nice...i held to a philosophy that drought stressing near end of life gave an esoteric value to the end product in the form of improved terpene, idk i saw it in what i thought was a valid publication. but i like this very much appreciated. please keep posting sciencey stuff
- Thread starter
- #1,154
You are absolutely right. This is a study done in the beginning of flower. Again, posted to show the amount of talk drought has brought on. We have learned through the study we base our drought off of here currently, that droughting will increase levels in late flower as you noted. The reason being is that it isn't until this time in development that the plant ramps up it's overall production of terpenes and the like. Futile clearly, to be done earlier on in flower and seemingly detrimental rather than exponential to our flower if done too early as well.
As for posting the science, I try, I'm learning as I go as are all of you. It's nice to see so many studies coming up and be able to make bubble charts (cause I'm old school) of anything that stands out for or against changing our current droughting dynamic
I'm not sure why we want more CGB, less CBD and less THC. CBG is the precursor cannabinoid to all the others as I understand it, so maybe it reverts to ramping up the original cannabinoid base and then allows the plant to convert the CBG to the others later?
Since what most of us are after are the end products of the CBD and THC, etc, that one study suggesting lower levels of both seems to be at odds from what we are attempting to do or at least end up with.
I agree with this. We treat the study we are operating off of as some sort of gold standard when it appears to me to be a nice start, but well short of any definitive result. I'd have to go reread it for the specifics but there were limited strains, limited environments, small sample size, etc.
So, hardly the be-all end-all of creating the effect.
I'm getting close to my inaugural attempt at this process and so my attention is now drawn to the details that I glossed over in the past. For example, when is the appropriate time to start the draught? The answer: 7th week. O.k., but is that begining of the 7th week, the middle or the end?
And, it's probably not really the 7th week, but a particular point in the plant's life cycle. Clearly a 7-8 week strain should be draughted at a much different period than a long lived sativa. The goal is to introduce the stress late enough in the plants cycle that any hermie effect is inconsequential, but also late enough so that the buds are can develop as much as possible so the harvest bud weight is not too severely compromised.
So, I wonder if the answer should really be something like some percentage of the breeder estimate of maturity, or when there is a certain percentage of white hairs converted to red, or some plant specific marker that suggests the appropriate window to begin.
Clearly 7th week on a long lived sativa is much too early relative to the maturity of the plant, but way too late for a 7 week strain.
So, for those who have actively draughted, were there any consistencies in identifiable individual plant based metrics that could help target the jumping off point rather than the often stated 7th week?
Maybe it really is as simple as (target harvest date (-) three recovery days (-) 11 draughting days (=) start day.
Mudballs
Well-Known Member
stressors are tier 2 in mastering the plant. i wanna find out how to initiate endohormones during flower. if you supercrop a branch, that triggers auxins to repair. useful during veg...ok what can i do to trigger what we want the plant to do hormonally during flower?
during flower we want a flood of Gibberellins i think. what stressor can we do to improve gibberellins? that's kinda close to not synthesized sprayed on goop.
ok mechanical stressor don't do jack during flower...what's next in the empirical standardize format to find out?
during flower we want a flood of Gibberellins i think. what stressor can we do to improve gibberellins? that's kinda close to not synthesized sprayed on goop.
ok mechanical stressor don't do jack during flower...what's next in the empirical standardize format to find out?
And the english translation along side it...
I watch for the swell, most pistil should be brown & starts to cut back on water
I then Water & start the drought & cut back on the heat
I find Indica dom plants can last longer in drought
Vanilla Kush Drought
Thanks for posting that Krissi...and welcome back after your long absence! It's definitely great to see that the science is getting involved in testing some of the theories that are floating around, and it would be nice to have this study duplicated later in flower when the whole CBG/CBD/THC thing could be completely different.
I have a friend with a pretty discerning palate for cannabis, so I gave her unmarked samples of my droughted Sour G and the undroughted clone I grew immediately after. Not really a scientific test at all, but I was curious what she thought. She thought the undroughted one gave a more intense and longer-lasting high.
That's all I have on those two so far.
I was going to have them both tested for cannabinoid content, but that's $75/plant. If I wanted terps tested as well it would be an additional $100/plant. But rather than test these two unscientific grows I was thinking of growing out two clones this fall and droughting one in the most scientific test I can run at home. That would probably be a better use of my money for testing.
I have a friend with a pretty discerning palate for cannabis, so I gave her unmarked samples of my droughted Sour G and the undroughted clone I grew immediately after. Not really a scientific test at all, but I was curious what she thought. She thought the undroughted one gave a more intense and longer-lasting high.
That's all I have on those two so far.I was going to have them both tested for cannabinoid content, but that's $75/plant. If I wanted terps tested as well it would be an additional $100/plant. But rather than test these two unscientific grows I was thinking of growing out two clones this fall and droughting one in the most scientific test I can run at home. That would probably be a better use of my money for testing.
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