DocBud's Hempy Grow

Andy Botwin said:
Not feeding ENOUGH would certainly lead to deficiencies! ;)

Honestly Doc, you've got the best problem to solve - feed those starving ladies.

For reference, the leaves on your Blue Dream are NOT showing a classic Nitrogen deficiency. It could be a mild N def, compounded with others, but it's most likely a missing micronutrient (not Cal/Mag, that I can't put my finger on). What indicates to me that it is not N def, is that the yellowing is starting from the leaves end and not the tip. Nitrogen hunger plants will start showing at the leaf tip and work towards the stem. In addition, you're seeing venal yellowing, while maintaining green inter-veinal coloration, which would be the opposite for most common deficiencies. Those two factors are what lead me to believe that there's a unhealthily, low level of some micronutrient. And now with the under-feeding being uncovered, it makes good sense that the plant(s) is missing just a little of something it doesn't need much of, but is yet still integral for photosynthesis.

Your WW is exhibiting classic Potassium unavailability. The necrotic spots on the leaf edges, working inwards and the interveinal chlorosis, are the give-aways. Again, any further K problems should be resolved with increased feeding, however, the damaged leaves with necrotic patches will not heal and be green again. The faded leaves should bounce back.

Out of curiosity, are you not using a TDS/ppm pen to verify your solution(s) concentration?

And lastly, PHATBLUNT may be right about the Phos deficiency as well, those petioles are mighty purple.

The bright side, is that those girls are going to explode with growth after a thorough feeding! Big things ahead...



For the record, I've done this several times...;)
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Thanks everyone! SS, Phatblunt and Andy.

I have a nutradip trimeter, and I use it to check PPM all the time.....however, like I've said, I've never approached the level of PPM that FF recommends. I was doing the "less is more" approach, and the plants "were" growing explosively until recently.

The Big Bloom has all the micronutrients....which is just what they've been starved on. For the record, I've never fed them while on meds....maybe I should have? :smokin:

For the next feeding I plan on doing this:

FF Grow 2tsp/gal
FF Big Bloom 1tbsp/gal
FF Tiger B 1tsp/gal
all of the above per schedule.
Also CalMag.

My buddy gave me a sample of Atami Bloombastic. 0/20/21
Now is the time I should use it.....should I?

Should I use the hygrozyme?

You guys are great for helping me, thanks.
 
Just glad it got figured out doc.

For the record, I knew you were using FF nutes and I looked specifically for the teaspoon/tablespoon issue when I read down your nute schedule because I did the exact same thing when I first started using FF nutes!

Big Bloom is organic and it's hard to burn your plants with it. I usually use it at 2 Tbsp per gallon and adjust up or down from 1-3 Tbsp depending on how my plants are handling it.

Tiger Bloom is a great nute in conjunction, but I only use half the recommended dose of that because it will burn your plants if you give too much.

take care bro
 
Andy Botwin said:
I think a high P/K additive, like that Bloombastic would help 'em bounce back.

I've never used Hygrozyme specifically, but have and continue to use enzymes and the roots/plants have no complaints. You know all about enzymes Doc, and their role as catalysts. The same principles apply in plant chemistry and using enzymes in your feeding won't due any harm and could facilitate a quicker recovery if used in conjunction with a healthy feeding.

So, what has your TDS/ppm been reading?
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Up until now, the PPM has been about 800 to 900, feeding every other watering. On top of that, I did a flush.....on top of that I hadn't used GROW in a couple weeks.

My rationale was that if FLO was overnuted, the others weren't far behind, and....less is more.

Well, FLO is looking better, leaves are all green and starting to uncurl....no yellow. The other plants are getting the yellow, crusty leaves.

So, I just watered with full dose....no bloombastic. I figured just a full dose per schedule was enough for the first one. I used tap water, which runs through a de-chlor filter....did not add calmag.

Interestingly, my PH was perfect with:

2tsp Grow
6tsp bloom
1tsp tiger

PPM 1350. (never been that high before)

I was so sad, the yellow leaves multiplied on one BlueD overnight. That plant was also sagging....pot was very light. It seems like the WW is slightly better. The Jack Herer is showing early signs of the same deficiency, but nothing gross.

I hope I caught this in time.
Buds are sticky, smell fantastic....but except for FLO, not much growth on the buds in the last week.

I'm currently at day 32 of flower, so I should be able to recover....

What a great learning experience.
 
setting sun said:
Just glad it got figured out doc.

For the record, I knew you were using FF nutes and I looked specifically for the teaspoon/tablespoon issue when I read down your nute schedule because I did the exact same thing when I first started using FF nutes!

Big Bloom is organic and it's hard to burn your plants with it. I usually use it at 2 Tbsp per gallon and adjust up or down from 1-3 Tbsp depending on how my plants are handling it.

Tiger Bloom is a great nute in conjunction, but I only use half the recommended dose of that because it will burn your plants if you give too much.

take care bro
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Would you please tell me about what you were feeding yours at this stage?

I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate the help!
 
Mines doing the same as yours, Doc. Funny, you and I have the same nutes and "less is more" philosophy. Im going with 2grow 2bloom 1tiger. im going with 2bloom because I just fed them 5 days ago. I hope this works. They slowed in growth and started to yellow a week ago but I assumed this was normal flowering until I figured I got over 30 days remaining. I dont want no yellowing until the final 14 days. I will post my results. Good Gardening. Peace. :smokin:
 
Screwnuts33 said:
Doc,
Glad you got it figured out. Hope the ladies make a full recovery.
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thanks bro....they're not dead yet, and while on one plant all the old fans are yellow, the others aren't near as bad, and there's plenty of green. I do see some growth over the last 24 hours.

I did find a spider mite this morning....no webs, just one might found while checking about 10 leaves that had spots from before.

AlexMurker said:
Mines doing the same as yours, Doc. Funny, you and I have the same nutes and "less is more" philosophy. Im going with 2grow 2bloom 1tiger. im going with 2bloom because I just fed them 5 days ago. I hope this works. They slowed in growth and started to yellow a week ago but I assumed this was normal flowering until I figured I got over 30 days remaining. I dont want no yellowing until the final 14 days. I will post my results. Good Gardening. Peace. :smokin:
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Hey Alex! thanks for stopping by. I look forward to seeing what you've got going.

I hope you didn't make the same mistake I did, getting tsp and tbsp mixed up.....I'm such a nooob.
 
Well, they seem to be slipping away.....

Everyone already knows about the tsp/tbsp issue that resulted in them being underfed.

In addition to that, I have sprayed them for spider mites a total of 4 times, once with einstein, then Doctor Doom, then Azatrol, and a lite misting of Dr. Doom yesterday, after I found a live mite. There are very, very few living mites, certainly no kind of massive infestation.

The yellowing of fan leaves has progressed, many have fallen off. Every plant if effected to some degree.....except FLO. Cervantes says FLO requires very light nutes.....

No much growth lately.....

Here are some pics. I don't know what's wrong, but the lower half of the plants seem healthier than the tops, and the large sunleaves are the first to begin yellowing.

The problem starts at the leaf margin, then the tip turns brown, then the whole leaf turns uniform yellow and falls off. The veins stay green the longest.
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Hey Doc, I'm a noob grower myself. I had a very similar problem when I put the ladies into flower on my first grow. I wish I could offer some solid advice but I really just have a couple of observations about my own experience. I had a big gnat problem on my first grow. I treated w/ neem, safer soap and BT mosquito dunks at different times. I think that, and the fact that I threw my girls into 12/12 under an HPS in a cab I couldn't effectively cool stressed them out and they dropped leaves. In my case I was also guilty of underwatering at times. I know that trees will drop even large limbs under heat and other stressors to save the plant and I chalked up my leaf loss to these things. The good news is I still got just shy of 1/2 lb. from my little cab under a 400W. Came out really decent for bag seed and a first grow. My leaf loss ended at the end of the stretch and the girls rebounded nicely.

You're doing great and you'll have some nice medicine at the end. I love the Hempy grow. I just learned what a Hempy bucket was right before I found your journal and I've been following your adventure with great interest. When I decide to go Hydro I'm def gonna do a Hempy. Best of luck.
 
Thx Doc. Your gurls are MUCH further along than mine. (How many days b4 harvest??) Plus you have a pest prob. which mite(pun intended) be assisting your situation. Hopefully the fly paper and neem spray will prevent me from going through the same thing. GOOD NEWS! The 2GROW 3BLOOM 1TIGER mix was PH'd and fed 24hrs ago and the new growth is pointing up again and i believe the hue of the leaves are a bit greener! I just wish my PC was working(using PS3) then I could show you and your audience. "The good news is I still got just shy of 1/2 lb. from my little cab under a 400W." -POTPIE I have a 400 also. Just curious, how many plants did you have under the 400 to yield 1/2 lb? i have 4 gurls under mine that i pruned down to just tops. I hope i get close to a yield as yours!
 
PotPie said:
Hey Doc, I'm a noob grower myself. I had a very similar problem when I put the ladies into flower on my first grow. I wish I could offer some solid advice but I really just have a couple of observations about my own experience. I had a big gnat problem on my first grow. I treated w/ neem, safer soap and BT mosquito dunks at different times. I think that, and the fact that I threw my girls into 12/12 under an HPS in a cab I couldn't effectively cool stressed them out and they dropped leaves. In my case I was also guilty of underwatering at times. I know that trees will drop even large limbs under heat and other stressors to save the plant and I chalked up my leaf loss to these things. The good news is I still got just shy of 1/2 lb. from my little cab under a 400W. Came out really decent for bag seed and a first grow. My leaf loss ended at the end of the stretch and the girls rebounded nicely.

You're doing great and you'll have some nice medicine at the end. I love the Hempy grow. I just learned what a Hempy bucket was right before I found your journal and I've been following your adventure with great interest. When I decide to go Hydro I'm def gonna do a Hempy. Best of luck.
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thanks for the encouragement. They're not dead....but I was really hoping to keep them green and keep those leaves producing sugars for at least 3 more weeks.

There has been no heat stress, and only a few days of high humidity due to the storms....other than that, the environment is near perfect....80-85 during the day....down to 70 at night, RH right around 40-50 24/7.

They have not been underwatered, and it's nearly impossible to accidentally over water in hempy's.

No gnats....mites are under control. I just screwed up by under fertilizing them.

Andy Botwin said:
That's a K deficiency/lockout Doc. I suggest a pHed flush with a flushing product and then make your own high 'P' Guano/Kelp tea and feed 'em with it. This has worked for me in the past. Could be missing some micro nutes also, so a trace element additive may help also.
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Hi Andy. I did do a PH'd flush, prior to this problem occuring. Do you actually think it's a lockout? It seems to me that I was starving them for P and K....while driving them with 1000watts and Canna Boost.....then flushed---ff schedule said to flush---then spraying for bugs....and now this.

Could you hazard a guess as to how long it will take before I see a turn around? They've had one watering with the proper dose of nutes....and on the next one I'm going to hit 'em a little higher.

FWIW, I also came to the "K" deficiency today, now that I can observe a few more leaves. I also learned the low P and K can also lead to low iron....and I'm exhibiting a bit of that too.

The FF Big Bloom has all those micro nutes, the guano, the K...etc. I was going to give them a drench with that and some tiger bloom. Do you have another idea that might work better?

They aren't drinking as much now as they were, normally I'd have to water today, but the pots are still heavy.

AlexMurker said:
Thx Doc. Your gurls are MUCH further along than mine. (How many days b4 harvest??) Plus you have a pest prob. which mite(pun intended) be assisting your situation. Hopefully the fly paper and neem spray will prevent me from going through the same thing. GOOD NEWS! The 2GROW 3BLOOM 1TIGER mix was PH'd and fed 24hrs ago and the new growth is pointing up again and i believe the hue of the leaves are a bit greener! I just wish my PC was working(using PS3) then I could show you and your audience. "The good news is I still got just shy of 1/2 lb. from my little cab under a 400W." -POTPIE I have a 400 also. Just curious, how many plants did you have under the 400 to yield 1/2 lb? i have 4 gurls under mine that i pruned down to just tops. I hope i get close to a yield as yours!
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Thanks bro. I know I'll yield something....just not as much as I'd hoped for, unless this turns around.

What If I pruned off all the little airy buds that are low on the plant and under the canopy? That would leave lots of green leaves, and all the production would go to the larger buds.

I'm not cutting anything till I hear back.
 
It gets hard to determine the main issue when things are confounded by the mites, spraying for the mites, the normal amount of yellowing in mid-late bloom, etc.

In the spirit of keeping it simple, and the fact that you've already flushed, I would just address the Big Bloom deficiency and go ahead with your plan to give them a good BB and TB feeding.

Positive or negative changes show faster with passive hydro than with soil, so you should see the effects fairly soon.

How many weeks into bloom are they now?
 
Re: DocBud's Hempy grow.

setting sun said:
It gets hard to determine the main issue when things are confounded by the mites, spraying for the mites, the normal amount of yellowing in mid-late bloom, etc.

In the spirit of keeping it simple, and the fact that you've already flushed, I would just address the Big Bloom deficiency and go ahead with your plan to give them a good BB and TB feeding.

Positive or negative changes show faster with passive hydro than with soil, so you should see the effects fairly soon.

How many weeks into bloom are they now?
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Today marks day 35 of flower.....so 5 weeks. I flipped the switch on 09/27.

I'm usually not a person to be overcome by optimism...but I don't give up easily either. Having said that, I made an infrequent visit to them during the dark cycle today. I see some new growth, and some filling in of the buds.

Also, it seems some of the damaged leaves on the WW are looking better, and there were no NEW yellow leaves on the troubled Blue D.

I also spent some time today with my buddy, who gave me the clones. He's an outdoor grower, so he didn't have too much to say, but this is his opinion:

The plants were barely fed enough to get as large as they did, they grew fast. The stress of stretching in flower with barely enough food, increased photosynthesis due to C02 and the Canna Boost, coupled with spraying and the mites was just too much for them, so they started to draw nutrients from the sunleaves.

So.....now that they're getting food, it's going to take a few days to switch the hormones from "eat my leaves" to "drink from roots." The good news, is that the nutrition goes from the leaves to the buds, and that potency and THC may actually increase...as long as the problem is fixed.

He also echoes what Andy said; that if I killed them

He also assured me that these plants were all the strongest phenotypes so they should bounce back. His method for growing is to germinate 10 seeds outdoors, under harsher conditions, and hope to get 2 strong females. If he has more than two, he only keeps the strongest two. So, I've got good genetics.

So, here's what I'm gonna do:

1.)A heavy feeding with Big Bloom: 1/2 cup per gallon. It doesn't burn plants.
2.)A good dose of Tiger Bloom
3.)A moderate dose of open Sesame, which is high in P and K, and will stimulate bud production again.

On subsequent waterings, I'm going to follow the FF schedule and include Bloombastic, adding Canna boost when things look better.

I'm gonna hold off on the CalMag for now.....they were getting lots of that before....as well as the molasses. I'll keep the hygrozyme.

I'm gonna write a bunch of stuff down, that I've learned on this grow, and post it in my grow room.....lessons learned.
 
Ya this is all new teritory for me as well doc...wish i had quick solution to problem...but i had broke my meter and had wrong nukes ...so i am in same boat my leaves being sucked dry...no worries...still smoking like a champ and next plants coming up have all the right things...so it's all good with me and my yellow leaves....problem with passive hydro is they look to us for everything...soil has forgive me stuff in it ....our mix has....get it right ...ya killing me in it....:laugh:
 
Tunes420 said:
Ya this is all new teritory for me as well doc...wish i had quick solution to problem...but i had broke my meter and had wrong nukes ...so i am in same boat my leaves being sucked dry...no worries...still smoking like a champ and next plants coming up have all the right things...so it's all good with me and my yellow leaves....problem with passive hydro is they look to us for everything...soil has forgive me stuff in it ....our mix has....get it right ...ya killing me in it....:laugh:
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Yup. But I'm still sold on the hempy. If I wasn't such a dumb jackass, they'd be growing great!

Next time's a comin'.
I've got a bonafide seed bank now:

10 blue cheese fem
10 violator kush fem
10 MK ultra fem
23 Santa maria F8 (no mercy supply....Cees rocks)
23 Double Fun
23 Lucky Queen
about 30 Skunk/sour diesel cross. (done by my friend)

This grow's far from over, but I next time is gonna be better.
 
Oh same here brother grower....not throwing towel in myself and not going back to soil just making adjustments like yourself to get all ya can and make next run smooth :surf:....my grows have always been staggered.....I bring one at a time into flower so my mistakes from first 2 plants has already been corrected and plants that have time will come around others with really yellow leaves will just finish budding with out sun leaves :)
OMG what a army of seeds you got ....dam!
 
DocBud said:
This grow's far from over, but I next time is gonna be better.
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I think you are on the correct path Doc. You now have a plan to deal with the setback. More importantly, you have a never say die attitude and the desire to learn. You are still going to get some nice meds and your next grow will be even better.

AlexMurker said:
-POTPIE I have a 400 also. Just curious, how many plants did you have under the 400 to yield 1/2 lb? i have 4 gurls under mine that i pruned down to just tops. I hope i get close to a yield as yours!
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--AlexMurker, I had 4 plants also. I did little or no pruning other than a bunch of fan leaves falling off. Here is an excerpt from the end of my journal. Sorry for the thread-jack Doc.:smokin:
PotPie said:
Here are the stats as I can recall them from notes, posts and various recollections:
4 plants from bag seed went all the way to harvest out of 12 started.
Total Grow Period:124 days
Total Veg Period: 56 days
Total Flower Period: 69 days (9 Weeks and 6 days)

Total Harvest: 7.8 oz. (About 221g)
Average Harvest Weight per plant: 1.95 oz (55.25g)
Grams per watt harvested .55g
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thanks PotPie! I apologise also for our side thred- but i had to know. My 4 are bagseed also. Me and Doc just had the same problem with under feeding. My mentor came by tonight and was like "WHOA! What did you give them babies?" So that PROOVED to me the turn around IS noticeable. DOC, i believe yours will recover well as long as there was no lockout. but like you said, so many complications surrounding your grow, we're gonna have to wait a few days.
 
AlexMurker said:
thanks PotPie! I apologise also for our side thred- but i had to know. My 4 are bagseed also. Me and Doc just had the same problem with under feeding. My mentor came by tonight and was like "WHOA! What did you give them babies?" So that PROOVED to me the turn around IS noticeable. DOC, i believe yours will recover well as long as there was no lockout. but like you said, so many complications surrounding your grow, we're gonna have to wait a few days.
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They look better today. No new damage, and the green leaves look healthy. I'll know things are back on track when they start drinking like they were before....but the downward slide seems to have stopped.

On the other hand, while the mites are under control, they're going to be a problem to manage right through the end of this grow. I found a couple more today....but no new eggs.
 
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