Cannatard
Well-Known Member
The LP I grew out turned out fire! Everyone loves it
Doc Bud's Lemon Paki Pheno Hunt!
- Thread starter medmanmike
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- doc bud high brix lemon paki pheno
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- #62
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
Cannatard, glad to hear of your success! I’m finally getting around to testing my phenos - more on that in a minute. Last night was plant #3. Fire it was! Gotta to love this plant!!
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- #63
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
Well, I have been way overdue for an update. I got a really bad cold over the new year that lasted for a month. Never had a fever or chills so I don’t believe it was Covid. It was the worst cold I’ve had in decades. I completely last my sense of taste and smell so any smoke report was worthless. I’m now going through each pheno and will report back once I’ve FULLY tested each of them out. 
My breeding ladies are in the middle of week 10. I’ve stopped watering a week ago and will let these go for awhile to allow the seeds to mature as much as possible.
It looks like one plant wasn’t pollinated - might be because it was a replacement for a clone that didn’t make it and to far along into flower when it went into the tent. We’ll see. I’ve also observed that the male pods didn’t get nearly as big on these plants as my first reversal of the LP.
I’ll be back with a final report shortly.
Hope the new year is going well for everyone!
My breeding ladies are in the middle of week 10. I’ve stopped watering a week ago and will let these go for awhile to allow the seeds to mature as much as possible.
It looks like one plant wasn’t pollinated - might be because it was a replacement for a clone that didn’t make it and to far along into flower when it went into the tent. We’ll see. I’ve also observed that the male pods didn’t get nearly as big on these plants as my first reversal of the LP.
I’ll be back with a final report shortly.
Hope the new year is going well for everyone!
Cannatard
Well-Known Member
This was her right before harvest. I ended up with about 3 zips from her. She was so frosty, I couldn't bring myself to remove a lot of the smaller leaves...that and I'm just a lazy trimmer lol
Cannatard
Well-Known Member
Absolute fantastic work Mike!Day 34 from seed update:
Pics shown were taken on Sep 13 & 14 (Day 34 & 35 f/seed) just prior to transplanting. I took cuttings (Sep 12), rearranged my platforms, added an additional light and reset all timers/controllers, etc. prior to moving to flower (Sep 17), so I'm behind a bit.
Plants are nearly bone dry in the pic, hence the droopiness. As I suspected plants were root-bound which I believe contributed to leaf yellowing, brown spots, etc. Now that they're in larger pots they're growing strong with good leaf structure and color.
I'm using the following criteria through the veg and early flower stage to identify "keepers". I found the basis for this on the internet and modified it so the scoring was more objective rather than subjective.
Germination/Seedling/Vegging Scale
Seed Germ. 1 (less than 24 hr), 2 (24-48 hr), 3 (more than 48 hr)
Seeds up. 1-< 24 hrs, 2- 24-48 hrs, 3-> 48 hrs, 4-did not show
Plant Structure 1- Bushy , 2-Squat, 3-Small, 4-Avg, 5-Tall
Internodal Dist. 1- Ex.Tight, 2-Very Tight, 3-Avg, 4-Mod. Spacing, 5-Very Wide
Hardiness: Temp., Transplanting, Disease, Nutes, Strength 1-Ext. Well, 2-Very Wel, 3-Avg 4-Weak, 5-Major Issues
Handling Response: Topping, Pruning, LST 1-Ext. Well, 2-Very Well, 3-Avg, 4-Weak, 5-Major Issues
I'll use a similar scale once flowering starts, progresses and finishes, etc. ie, number of buds, size/shape, yield, smoke report, etc.
Using the Germ/Veg scale I've identified five plants that I'm keeping my eye on and have taken cuttings (pic below). I'll be taken cuttings of the remaining LPs just in case one or more rises to the top. Once they finish flowering I'll identify the phenos I'll use to reverse a female and produce some S2s.
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- #66
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
All right, time to wrap this pheno hunt up! The two final issues to report on are 1) Reversal of selected phenos, and 2) a smoke report of the phenos themselves.
Unfortunately, the reversal did not work. Not one seed! Even though each plant (with one exception) had one branch just covered in male flowers, no fertilization took place. I let the plants go 13 weeks to make sure seeds would be mature. From week 10 on I would clip a bud looking for seeds but never found any. Calyx's swelled as one would expect carrying a seed, but nothing. Plant #8 you may recall was a last minute addition to the breeding tent for #6 (I lost the clone) and my attempts to reveg it didn't work, so I culled it and replaced it with #8.
#8 also didn't "take" the attempt to reverse a branch as it was already in early flower when she went into the tent. I thought (hoped) she might hold on until the other "males" caught up. However, as there were no seeds on any of the plants, I'm assuming all the males were sterile.
I can only speculate as to why. I followed the same process as my first reversal from a couple of years ago. The only difference that I can think of is that the males flowers this time were much smaller - more like nanners, than my first reversal and that somehow affected their viability. So unfortunately, no S2 seeds.
Smoke report. I'm not a heavy user so it was a challenge to sample 9 plants over time to really experience them. I won't go into great detail, rather just highlight some of the differences between them, including the initial selection (to reverse) and the results of the smoke test.
I originally selected 1, 5, 6, 7 to reverse based on my selection criteria outlined in a previous post. As I've explained, I had to replace 6 with #8 and 7 with #2. As it turned out, the results of the smoke report didn't necessarily match the phenos selected for breeding.
Plant #1: The taste on this plant was "off." It did not taste like a Lemon Paki and just had a weird taste to it. I flowered out a clone of #1 and it too had this off taste. Odd.
Plant #2: Taste was ok and typical of the LP. It wasn't outstanding, but ok.
Plant #3: Very tight buds. Extremely sticky and hard to grind. (I use a Mamba electric grinder and it bogged the machine down due to the stickiness.). Aroma and taste were very lemony and spicy. Defiantly a keeper (IF there were seeds!
)
Plant #5: (no #4) Grinding was difficult, very sticky. Taste was a tart lemon.
Plant #6: Bud was 'dryer' not as sticky. Less lemon than others and had an odd taste - different than #1.
Plant #7: This plant was not overly sticky. Perhaps dried too much? But, it had a very long lasting lemony taste and was a very smooth smoke.
Plant #8: Initial taste was a lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #11: (no 9 or 10) . Very similar to #8 - lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #12: A very strong lemon aroma when grinding. Taste was more fruity than others with spiciness at the end of the draw.
"The proof is in the pudding" as they say, so the four plants (in bold) that were the most satisfying to smoke were none of the plants selected for looks, morphology, growth, bud size, etc. Go figure! I guess it goes to show you "can't judge a book (or plant) by its cover!"
This was an interesting experiment and not one I'll recreate soon as its a lot of work. However, I do have my notes and pics identifying the different phenos and will look for consistency as I grow more.
I know I promised some S2s to a couple of you... so please except my apologies . Thanks for following along!
Unfortunately, the reversal did not work. Not one seed! Even though each plant (with one exception) had one branch just covered in male flowers, no fertilization took place. I let the plants go 13 weeks to make sure seeds would be mature. From week 10 on I would clip a bud looking for seeds but never found any. Calyx's swelled as one would expect carrying a seed, but nothing. Plant #8 you may recall was a last minute addition to the breeding tent for #6 (I lost the clone) and my attempts to reveg it didn't work, so I culled it and replaced it with #8.
#8 also didn't "take" the attempt to reverse a branch as it was already in early flower when she went into the tent. I thought (hoped) she might hold on until the other "males" caught up. However, as there were no seeds on any of the plants, I'm assuming all the males were sterile.
I can only speculate as to why. I followed the same process as my first reversal from a couple of years ago. The only difference that I can think of is that the males flowers this time were much smaller - more like nanners, than my first reversal and that somehow affected their viability. So unfortunately, no S2 seeds.
Smoke report. I'm not a heavy user so it was a challenge to sample 9 plants over time to really experience them. I won't go into great detail, rather just highlight some of the differences between them, including the initial selection (to reverse) and the results of the smoke test.
I originally selected 1, 5, 6, 7 to reverse based on my selection criteria outlined in a previous post. As I've explained, I had to replace 6 with #8 and 7 with #2. As it turned out, the results of the smoke report didn't necessarily match the phenos selected for breeding.
Plant #1: The taste on this plant was "off." It did not taste like a Lemon Paki and just had a weird taste to it. I flowered out a clone of #1 and it too had this off taste. Odd.
Plant #2: Taste was ok and typical of the LP. It wasn't outstanding, but ok.
Plant #3: Very tight buds. Extremely sticky and hard to grind. (I use a Mamba electric grinder and it bogged the machine down due to the stickiness.). Aroma and taste were very lemony and spicy. Defiantly a keeper (IF there were seeds!
)Plant #5: (no #4) Grinding was difficult, very sticky. Taste was a tart lemon.
Plant #6: Bud was 'dryer' not as sticky. Less lemon than others and had an odd taste - different than #1.
Plant #7: This plant was not overly sticky. Perhaps dried too much? But, it had a very long lasting lemony taste and was a very smooth smoke.
Plant #8: Initial taste was a lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #11: (no 9 or 10) . Very similar to #8 - lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #12: A very strong lemon aroma when grinding. Taste was more fruity than others with spiciness at the end of the draw.
"The proof is in the pudding" as they say, so the four plants (in bold) that were the most satisfying to smoke were none of the plants selected for looks, morphology, growth, bud size, etc. Go figure! I guess it goes to show you "can't judge a book (or plant) by its cover!"
This was an interesting experiment and not one I'll recreate soon as its a lot of work. However, I do have my notes and pics identifying the different phenos and will look for consistency as I grow more.
I know I promised some S2s to a couple of you... so please except my apologies . Thanks for following along!
overlord
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the time, effort and seeds.All right, time to wrap this pheno hunt up! The two final issues to report on are 1) Reversal of selected phenos, and 2) a smoke report of the phenos themselves.
Unfortunately, the reversal did not work. Not one seed! Even though each plant (with one exception) had one branch just covered in male flowers, no fertilization took place. I let the plants go 13 weeks to make sure seeds would be mature. From week 10 on I would clip a bud looking for seeds but never found any. Calyx's swelled as one would expect carrying a seed, but nothing. Plant #8 you may recall was a last minute addition to the breeding tent for #6 (I lost the clone) and my attempts to reveg it didn't work, so I culled it and replaced it with #8.
#8 also didn't "take" the attempt to reverse a branch as it was already in early flower when she went into the tent. I thought (hoped) she might hold on until the other "males" caught up. However, as there were no seeds on any of the plants, I'm assuming all the males were sterile.
I can only speculate as to why. I followed the same process as my first reversal from a couple of years ago. The only difference that I can think of is that the males flowers this time were much smaller - more like nanners, than my first reversal and that somehow affected their viability. So unfortunately, no S2 seeds.
Smoke report. I'm not a heavy user so it was a challenge to sample 9 plants over time to really experience them. I won't go into great detail, rather just highlight some of the differences between them, including the initial selection (to reverse) and the results of the smoke test.
I originally selected 1, 5, 6, 7 to reverse based on my selection criteria outlined in a previous post. As I've explained, I had to replace 6 with #8 and 7 with #2. As it turned out, the results of the smoke report didn't necessarily match the phenos selected for breeding.
Plant #1: The taste on this plant was "off." It did not taste like a Lemon Paki and just had a weird taste to it. I flowered out a clone of #1 and it too had this off taste. Odd.
Plant #2: Taste was ok and typical of the LP. It wasn't outstanding, but ok.
Plant #3: Very tight buds. Extremely sticky and hard to grind. (I use a Mamba electric grinder and it bogged the machine down due to the stickiness.). Aroma and taste were very lemony and spicy. Defiantly a keeper (IF there were seeds!
Plant #5: (no #4) Grinding was difficult, very sticky. Taste was a tart lemon.
Plant #6: Bud was 'dryer' not as sticky. Less lemon than others and had an odd taste - different than #1.
Plant #7: This plant was not overly sticky. Perhaps dried too much? But, it had a very long lasting lemony taste and was a very smooth smoke.
Plant #8: Initial taste was a lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #11: (no 9 or 10) . Very similar to #8 - lemon cream, followed by a spiciness on the throat without any burning or coughing. Another favorite.
Plant #12: A very strong lemon aroma when grinding. Taste was more fruity than others with spiciness at the end of the draw.
"The proof is in the pudding" as they say, so the four plants (in bold) that were the most satisfying to smoke were none of the plants selected for looks, morphology, growth, bud size, etc. Go figure! I guess it goes to show you "can't judge a book (or plant) by its cover!"
This was an interesting experiment and not one I'll recreate soon as its a lot of work. However, I do have my notes and pics identifying the different phenos and will look for consistency as I grow more.
I know I promised some S2s to a couple of you... so please except my apologies . Thanks for following along!
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- #68
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
Thanks, man, keep me informed of your grows.
Thanks for the effort Mike! Did you keep clones of those keepers or are they gone? Do you think you can identify phenotypes by watching others grow them out?
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- #70
medmanmike
Well-Known Member
Thanks, Neiko. No, I wasn’t able to keep any clones. I had a very hard time cloning the LP this time. I have a cloning machine and paid attention to it etc. but took forever for the cuttings to root and many died before rooting.
I did some research and found that cuttings like an acidic environment with ph in the mid 5 range. I used tap water per my cloner’s instructions but overlooked the ph issue. My tap water ph runs from 7.75 - 8.25. I’m convinced this was the issue.
BTW, I know Doc says “ignore the ph” for his system, but since I started monitoring my ph (after adding nutes), i have eliminated all the weird leaf issues i was having. I’m nearly 6 weeks into flower this grow and do not have a single bad leaf. For anyone who might try this keep in mind that the CAT drench will considerably lower the ph even with neutral water. When I adjust my tap water to 7.0 +\- CAT brings the ph down to around 4.5, which is considerably lower than what cannabis likes. Must have something to do with the shift of cations from promoting veg to flowering.
I do have numerous pics of the different phenos and yes, I believe I can ID the phenos that others grow. Do you have some Lp going now? Shooot me some pics if you do.
I did some research and found that cuttings like an acidic environment with ph in the mid 5 range. I used tap water per my cloner’s instructions but overlooked the ph issue. My tap water ph runs from 7.75 - 8.25. I’m convinced this was the issue.
BTW, I know Doc says “ignore the ph” for his system, but since I started monitoring my ph (after adding nutes), i have eliminated all the weird leaf issues i was having. I’m nearly 6 weeks into flower this grow and do not have a single bad leaf. For anyone who might try this keep in mind that the CAT drench will considerably lower the ph even with neutral water. When I adjust my tap water to 7.0 +\- CAT brings the ph down to around 4.5, which is considerably lower than what cannabis likes. Must have something to do with the shift of cations from promoting veg to flowering.
I do have numerous pics of the different phenos and yes, I believe I can ID the phenos that others grow. Do you have some Lp going now? Shooot me some pics if you do.
No I don't have any going right now. I'm trying the Lemon Afghan from Kalifa Genetics but I will be starting more LP next seed drop.