Doc Bud's Lemon Paki Pheno Hunt!

Overdue for an update, so here goes!

F5-D35 D73 f/seed

First, appreciate the comments @Graytail, @Slapalottapuss and @TheBreadsticka for your thoughts. As I said, I put this plant in a tent by itself. Male pods remained very small - smaller than a Q-tip tip. They have opened, but have not seen any evidence of pollen. I did a close inspection this morning and did not find any evidence of pistils being pollinated, ie tips brown, swollen calyxes, etc. Wondering if they might be sterile?

Garden is in full bloom and stinking the place up! Here's a shot of LP7 which is typical of the other plants. Four/five weeks to go!

LP 7 F5-D35 D73 f-seed.jpeg



Earlier I posted a pic of a fan leave with additional blades growing from the center of the leaf. I've now found similar fans on most of the Lemon Packis, including this one with three blades, total of 11. Can't say I've seen smaller blades grow out from the center before. Interesting.

LP5 - three extra blades f-center 11 total.jpeg


@Overload asked about the Black Afghanis I'm growing. Here's a shot of #2. She's really filling in nicely.

Black Afghani - FD33 - D71 f-seed.jpeg


More later.
 
medmanmike said:
Overdue for an update, so here goes!

F5-D35 D73 f/seed

First, appreciate the comments @Graytail, @Slapalottapuss and @TheBreadsticka for your thoughts. As I said, I put this plant in a tent by itself. Male pods remained very small - smaller than a Q-tip tip. They have opened, but have not seen any evidence of pollen. I did a close inspection this morning and did not find any evidence of pistils being pollinated, ie tips brown, swollen calyxes, etc. Wondering if they might be sterile?

Garden is in full bloom and stinking the place up! Here's a shot of LP7 which is typical of the other plants. Four/five weeks to go!

LP 7 F5-D35 D73 f-seed.jpeg



Earlier I posted a pic of a fan leave with additional blades growing from the center of the leaf. I've now found similar fans on most of the Lemon Packis, including this one with three blades, total of 11. Can't say I've seen smaller blades grow out from the center before. Interesting.

LP5 - three extra blades f-center 11 total.jpeg


@Overload asked about the Black Afghanis I'm growing. Here's a shot of #2. She's really filling in nicely.

Black Afghani - FD33 - D71 f-seed.jpeg


More later.
Click to expand...
Thanks @medmanmike , these are the black Afghani?
 
Update: Week 7, Day 45

Ladies are cruising along, buds are swelling and colas are filling in. More traits are showing among the plants. Here is a rundown of some of different characteristics.

There are three (of 9) plants that have very dark red/purple stems. Purple also shows on leaf petioles, underside of leaves, and is now beginning to show on the bracts.

LP FD44 red stem example..jpeg

LP FD44 red stem example..jpeg


LP1 - FD45 - purple coloring top buds.jpeg

LP1 - FD45 - purple coloring top buds.jpeg


There are a number of plants whose buds are exhibiting the following characteristics: Triangular shaped buds, "droopy" top leaves, diminishing and receding pistils. They're beginning to look like they're getting ready to finish. If you've followed Doc over the years he has always said to "let them go 10 weeks." Personally, I've always struggled to let them go that long. Trichs don't turn amber much, but my gut tells me that when they go the full 10 they lose some terpenes resulting in reduced aromas and flavor. If you grow/grown the LP please let me know your exp.

LP3 FD45 - droop leaves, pistils drying.jpeg

LP3 FD45 - droop leaves, pistils drying.jpeg


And then, there's kinda of the opposite: conical/rounded, shaggy fat buds with pistils galore.

LP5 - FD45 - leaves droop, conical buds, pistils abundant.jpeg

LP5 - FD45 - leaves droop, conical buds, pistils abundant.jpeg


The final noticeable characteristic is this one: "praying"/uplifted top leaves, vigorous pistil development with strong side bud formation. This the only plant with this structure.

LP7 - FD45 - leaves up, strong side bud dev..jpeg

LP7 - FD45 - leaves up, strong side bud dev..jpeg


You may recall I have these plants in 3 gallon pots. They were topped once and heavily LST'ed to develop 6-8 main branches. They were vegged for 4 weeks. The intent was to keep the plants small (they are, around 24" +/-) The bad news is they're heavily root bound as you might expect. Hoping I can keep them healthy to the end!

A quick update on the plant that showed male flowers. The pods never grew larger than a paper match head. (Last update I said Q-tip size, but they're much smaller). Some have opened, with no discernible pollen. The one's that haven't opened feel dry as if they've stopped maturing in their tracks. After close examination of the plant I have not found any seeds. Note: I did find one male pod on two other plants early on, but nothing since and no evidence of nanners.

So, we have some variation in morphology. Anxious now to see the yield, smokability, etc.
 
Flower Week 9 Update

Approaching the end. Will harvest 2-3 plants at the end of the week. I've made my final selections for reversing and breeding. There are 3 very distinct phenos and possibly a fourth.

The plant that showed males pods showed no signs of seeds so I stripped the pods and put it back in the flower room to finish under high powered LEDs. Pic below.

I had a mixed attempt with cloning each of the plants which resulted in losing #7 which I previously identified as a separate pheno and a keeper in a previous post. One thing I've noticed is that though there are distinct phenos, they share some common traits. For example: the darker green leaves trait shows across phenos; bud formation, calyx size does likewise; maturation - buds ripening, pistils growth/pulling back vary across plants. There is one plant, #2, that has the fullest colas and largest buds, so I selected it in place of #7.

I originally wanted to keep clones going until after harvest so I could incorporate yield and a smoke report into my final selection decision, as well select one plant as breeding male, but space and time conspired against me, so I went to plan "B". I've selected four plants representing the various phenos. These will go into a tent and I will reverse one branch on each plant and let them go at it! The plan is to keep the seeds separate, do small grows of each and see what develops. This is my first attempt at pheno hunting not to mention breeding, so I really don't know what I'm doing!! LOL! I now have a much better understanding of what actual breeders go through. Can't imagine doing a pheno hunt of a hundred plants for more!

So, here are pics of the four plants/phenos taken on D57 from flip that I've selected for breeding:

Plant #1: Deep purple stems. Early maturation. Velvety buds. This is the plant that threw the leaves posted in previous post that put out additional fingers from the apex of the petiole.

LP1-wk9-d57-full-purple-stems.jpeg

LP1-wk9-d57-full-purple-stems.jpeg


LP1-wk9-d57-buds.jpeg

LP1-wk9-d57-buds.jpeg

  • Media owner medmanmike
  • Date added
  • Comments 1

Plant #2: Replacement for #7. Fattest/fullest buds/colas. More upward development of buds. Purple stems also.

LP2-wk9-d57-fattest-fullest buds-colas.jpeg

LP2-wk9-d57-fattest-fullest buds-colas.jpeg


LP2- wk9-d57-buds-cola.jpeg

LP2- wk9-d57-buds-cola.jpeg


Plant #5: Phallic shaped colas. Extreme pistils production-almost hairy looking. Late maturation (still throwing pistils).

LP5-wk9-d57-hairy bud.jpeg

LP5-wk9-d57-hairy bud.jpeg


LP5-wk9-d57-full.jpeg

LP5-wk9-d57-full.jpeg


Plant #6: This was the plant that threw male flowers early. Smaller buds. Very velvety buds. Dark green leaves

LP6-wk9-d57-full.jpeg

LP6-wk9-d57-full.jpeg


LP6-wk9-d57-closeup.jpeg

LP6-wk9-d57-closeup.jpeg


I'll report back as the harvest progresses.
 
everything looks good Mike... :thumb: :thumb: my question for you is, if you're putting 4 different pheno males in the same tent and reversing one branch on each what is the plan to stop cross pollination and mixing up the pheno's?...cheerz...:high-five:...h00k...
 
Hey h00k, well like I said, I know very little about breeding. I have fathered 3 children, but I'm not sure that counts!:laughtwo:

As I said, I had originally planned on keeping clones going until a post-harvest evaluation of the current hunt. Selecting the "best" 3-4 plants, growing out the corresponding clones and then reversing one of them, breeding the others.

I've been reading up on "open pollination" and found this that gave me the idea to go the route of creating multiple males.

How To Preserve Landraces With Controlled Open-Pollination - from Khalifa Genetics​

An open-pollination is, as the name suggests, letting male plants freely pollinate female plants through naturally occurring means. Usually, in the cannabis world, breeders only use one male to pollinate a female plant. In order to preserve landraces, it’s important to use a large number of male plants so as to preserve genetic diversity. If we only use a small number of plants, the gene pool becomes narrower and narrower with each generation. Although it would make the strain more genetically stable, we would lose some of that precious genetic diversity. The more plants a grower uses for the open-pollination the more the genetic diversity of a strain can be preserved.

The bold lines are what gave me the idea. Granted, we don't know if Lemon Paki is a Landrace. According to Doc, a US soldier brought the strain back from the Middle East, so it is a possibility. I suppose it's also a possibility that the soldier brought seeds with them and the strain was mixed with a local variety. Unfortunately we'll never know.

I would welcome yours (or anyone's) opinion on this and/or suggestions for moving forward.
 
I just started dabbling in reversing and crossing last year, so my knowledge is pretty basic...I reversed two branches on a A5Killer,and threw in a Bubba Hash and a Gwaui from Ace...got quite a few seeds from all three...I grew out the BH and Gwaui this year, but haven't tried yet as they're still in jars curing

I thought your intention was to try make select pheno's of each male,in which case they would be seperated, so yeah, by having the four males together and pollinating each other would keep the diversity of the strain preserved...at least that's what my brain tells me...cheerz... :high-five: ...h00k...
 
hehe...I meant reversed females(she males,lol), but the same theory applies...cheerz... :high-five: ...h00k...
 
I finished harvesting the last Lemon Paki (#5) on Nov. 29 and have been chopping other strains everyday. My last Malana will come down tomorrow and the Dark S.A.G.E. in a day or two after that.

With the exception of plant #6 (the one that threw faux balls early on) all the rest of the LPs went approx. 70 days +/-. #5, the hairy one, went the longest at 74 days. Again, with the exception of #6, all the rest had very chunky and hard buds. Colas filled out nicely, many plants "colored up" and many got that fuzzy velvety look and feel. Buds were very resinous and the typical Lemon Paki aromas of lemon, fuel, some dank/skunky stink were there. All plants were dried with lo n slo in paper bags/refridge method. Just today #s1 & 6 went into jars. The dry yield for the two is under 2oz which I anticipated as they were in kept small in 3gal pots.

Here's some pics of the harvest. The first four are of plant #2. This plant is a good example of what most of the other plants looked liked. Solid colas, chunky buds, that fuzzy/velvety look.

LP2 colas (1).jpeg

LP2 colas (1).jpeg


LP2 colas (2).jpeg

LP2 colas (2).jpeg


LP2closeup (1).jpeg

LP2closeup (1).jpeg


LP2 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP2 bud closeup (1).jpeg



Next are #3, #7, #8, #11

LP3 colas.jpeg

LP3 colas.jpeg


LP7 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP7 bud closeup (1).jpeg


LP8 colas.jpeg

LP8 colas.jpeg


LP11 colas.jpeg

LP11 colas.jpeg


Here is the odd plant, #5 the hairy one (trimmed).

LP5 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP5 bud closeup (1).jpeg


I'll report back with some final thoughts, smoke report, yield, etc.

Finally, for Overload! :goof: Some pics of the Black Afghani. I had two phenos: a "black" and a "green". Structure, bud development, etc. are similar between the plants.

Black Afghani - black pheno.jpeg

Black Afghani - black pheno.jpeg


Black Afghani - green pheno.jpeg

Black Afghani - green pheno.jpeg


Black Afghani - black pheno main cola.jpeg

Black Afghani - black pheno main cola.jpeg

 
medmanmike said:
I finished harvesting the last Lemon Paki (#5) on Nov. 29 and have been chopping other strains everyday. My last Malana will come down tomorrow and the Dark S.A.G.E. in a day or two after that.

With the exception of plant #6 (the one that threw faux balls early on) all the rest of the LPs went approx. 70 days +/-. #5, the hairy one, went the longest at 74 days. Again, with the exception of #6, all the rest had very chunky and hard buds. Colas filled out nicely, many plants "colored up" and many got that fuzzy velvety look and feel. Buds were very resinous and the typical Lemon Paki aromas of lemon, fuel, some dank/skunky stink were there. All plants were dried with lo n slo in paper bags/refridge method. Just today #s1 & 6 went into jars. The dry yield for the two is under 2oz which I anticipated as they were in kept small in 3gal pots.

Here's some pics of the harvest. The first four are of plant #2. This plant is a good example of what most of the other plants looked liked. Solid colas, chunky buds, that fuzzy/velvety look.

LP2 colas (1).jpeg

LP2 colas (1).jpeg


LP2 colas (2).jpeg

LP2 colas (2).jpeg


LP2closeup (1).jpeg

LP2closeup (1).jpeg


LP2 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP2 bud closeup (1).jpeg



Next are #3, #7, #8, #11

LP3 colas.jpeg

LP3 colas.jpeg


LP7 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP7 bud closeup (1).jpeg


LP8 colas.jpeg

LP8 colas.jpeg


LP11 colas.jpeg

LP11 colas.jpeg


Here is the odd plant, #5 the hairy one (trimmed).

LP5 bud closeup (1).jpeg

LP5 bud closeup (1).jpeg


I'll report back with some final thoughts, smoke report, yield, etc.

Finally, for Overload! :goof: Some pics of the Black Afghani. I had two phenos: a "black" and a "green". Structure, bud development, etc. are similar between the plants.

Black Afghani - black pheno.jpeg

Black Afghani - black pheno.jpeg


Black Afghani - green pheno.jpeg

Black Afghani - green pheno.jpeg


Black Afghani - black pheno main cola.jpeg

Black Afghani - black pheno main cola.jpeg

Click to expand...
Thanks,
Let me know if the smoke is good.
I appreciate it.
 
Here's a final harvest update. Yield was low as expected as I switched early, used 3gal pots and purposely kept them on the small side. As I've mentioned, there were three and possibly a fourth distinct phenos. The really odd one was #5 (shown above-last pic in post #32). The others were similar in growth, bud structure, etc. #6 had the "petite" rosebud flowers and yielded the least, but this could be due in part to the fact that it showed male flowers early on and was moved to a tent under 400w of cfls, before she was brought back to finish with the rest under high powered LEDs.

The LPs have been in jars with a Boveda for almost a month. They're not fully cured to my liking so I haven't done a proper smoke test yet. More on that later. Aromas are strong - some lemon, earthy, fuel, and a funky, dank rotten fart smell! (Disclaimer - my nose isn't what it used to be so your mileage may vary!) I will say you know you're in the presence of some dank weed! The little I've smoked, and this is true for fully cured LP from previous grows, is it has a very spicy/peppery "burn" on the back of the throat, but it doesn't last. Meaning, it's not like harsh weed that burns the throat and you feel it for the rest of the night/next day, etc. It just gets "hot" on the back of the throat like a good spice and then dissipates.

Here are the numbers. Weights in grams.

#1 - 37.8
#2 - 44.3
#3 - 35.8
#5 - 50.3
#6 - 22.6
#7 - 43.8
#8 - 43.6
#11 - 46.5
#12 - 46.3

A quick update on the plants selected to be reversed. I selected #s 1, 2, 5, 6. Clone #5 for some reason decided to reveg, so it's playing catch up and hasn't shown any males pods yet (as of today, day 23). Clones for #6 didn't make it so I went with #8 instead. (#6 is being revegged (hopefully, no regrowth showing yet). I used Colloidal Silver and sprayed one branch on each plant twice a day. Male pods started showing on day 19. I've decided to spend more time smoke-testing each pheno before making a final selection, so I'm going to let the four pollinate each other and see if anything new shows up.
 
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