Learn something new everyday. How do you get it exact?
Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?
- Thread starter InTheShed
- Start date
Laser point thermometer and put it in the fridge.
Wow thats technical man if I had a spare fridge I would try this lol unfortunately no bueno
I use @Sierra Natural Science nutes and you mix all of it in gallon jugs and I can always make room for another gallon jug.lol
Nice man haha i wish i could say the same about more plants
- Thread starter
- #446
I put a chart in your thread displaying how those two things relate. I'd like to keep this thread closer to the nutrient pH topic.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
One of the main reasons for adding acid to tap water is to reduce or even eliminate the alkalinity of the water. Adding acid to tap water obviously reduces pH.
So the pH of nutrient water is far from being irrelevant to the pH of the growing media because acidification reduced the alkalinity of the nutrient water which causes less alkalinity to accumulate in the media over time.
On the other hand, the pH of reverse osmosis water is irrelevant to the media because it has no alkalinity.
Now does that mean everyone needs to pH their water? Nope. It does not. Because not everyone has the same water, nutes and media.
It turns out, weed is a ridiculously easy plant to grow in buffered media. We are told the ideal pH range is 5.5-6.0 with peat. In my experience with peat and watering at 5.7, the media pH starts around 6 and gets up to 7.5 by the end of the grow. I don't get deficiencies in that range.
However deficiencies can start to occur around 7.8 pH. This was also observed by the U of NC as they studied the runoffs of many professional grows.
I didn't acidify my water for one lazy run and guess what? The media pH got too high and deficiencies occurred. The end result was nothing to be proud of. So I will continue to acidify my water.
So using peat did u ph test throughout?One of the main reasons for adding acid to tap water is to reduce or even eliminate the alkalinity of the water. Adding acid to tap water obviously reduces pH.
So the pH of nutrient water is far from being irrelevant to the pH of the growing media because acidification reduced the alkalinity of the nutrient water which causes less alkalinity to accumulate in the media over time.
On the other hand, the pH of reverse osmosis water is irrelevant to the media because it has no alkalinity.
Now does that mean everyone needs to pH their water? Nope. It does not. Because not everyone has the same water, nutes and media.
It turns out, weed is a ridiculously easy plant to grow in buffered media. We are told the ideal pH range is 5.5-6.0 with peat. In my experience with peat and watering at 5.7, the media pH starts around 6 and gets up to 7.5 by the end of the grow. I don't get deficiencies in that range.
However deficiencies can start to occur around 7.8 pH. This was also observed by the U of NC as they studied the runoffs of many professional grows.
I didn't acidify my water for one lazy run and guess what? The media pH got too high and deficiencies occurred. The end result was nothing to be proud of. So I will continue to acidify my water.
- Thread starter
- #450
Unless you are using sulfuric acid to neutralize the alkaline content of your water you're just lowering the pH of the nutes. If you are using sulfuric acid than what you don't need to worry about is the alkalinity of your water affecting the pH of your substrate.
And pH and alkaline content are two different things.
The pH of nutrient water is irrelevant under the conditions outlined in the opening post: in a buffered medium.
Peat alone is an unbuffered medium, and I don't recommend anyone grow In straight peat because of its low pH. The work you had to go through to accomplish it is an obvious example of why.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
I'm very aware that pH and alkalinity are different things. I use a combo of citric and sulfuric acid and grow in a SS#4, not straight peat.
Can you show me a study that concludes pH of the feed has no influence on the pH of buffered peat?
Do you agree or disagree that lowering the pH of the water reduces alkalinity of the water immediately and gradually less alkalinity accumulates in the media?
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
If the pH of the feed truly doesn't matter, I would like someone to pH their feed down to 3 or up to 10 for the whole run and let us know how that works out.
- Thread starter
- #453
Sunshine Mix #4 and ProMix HP are basically the same, so the opening post applies to you 100%.
The Premier Tech website is loaded with that information in posts and videos. And commercial growers, nursery and farmers alike, do not pH adjust their fertilizer.
They do understand how alkaline content and nitrogen source affect the pH of their substrate and they make adjustments based on that. Not by pH adjusting what comes out of their hoses.
Acidifying the water with sulfuric acid will reduce the alkalinity of your water, eliminating that as a variable. Common pH down acids are too weak. I don't recommend folks work with sulfuric acid but if you have high alkaline water and notice that your substrate pH drifts over time, lowering the pH of your substrate can be accomplished in a few ways including the addition of sulfuric acid.
It's been done and mentioned in this thread. Worked fine. Can't recall who it was now.
And again, as mentioned in the opening post, the pH of your nute water is irrelevant, the alkaline content may be.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
So there is no study that you can provide proving the pH of the feed is somehow irrelevant. And you agree that reducing alkalinity of tap water also reduces the amount of alkalinity that would otherwise accumulate in the media. This directly affects the pH of the media over time.
Sure seems like pH matters here because the alkalinity of tap water matters. The whole point of the OP is clearly written as "do I really need to pH my water".
The correct answer is it DEPENDS on the contents of your water, your nutes and your growing medium. It's also never wrong to pH your water if you do it right.
bruno12345
Well-Known Member
Its not that the PH doesnt matter, the thing is alkalinity matters the most.
Water pH 9,5 +70ppm of carbonates needs 1.2ml of sulfuric acid to bring it to pH 5.0
Water ph 8,3 + 300ppm of carbonates needs 6ml of sulfuric acid to bring to ph 5.0
What this means: solution pH isnt the driving force of medium pH, because its easily buffered. But when alkalinity enters the game you have a huge increase in alcalinizing strenght, which thens makes the pH of a buffered medium to increase alot faster.
its not like you would abandon the monitoring of your medium. you should investigate what are the effects of you feedings on the MEDIUM ph. After all, this charts shows that the medium pH varies over time, even on a 0ppm alcalinity.
Im another one who never adjusted pH of the solution and grew perfectly fine plants.
Thank you science for sparing my time.
Peat Phreak
Well-Known Member
But he is preaching the gospel of pH not mattering. And the common way to reduce alkalinity of decent tap water is by using acid which consequently lowers the pH.
bruno12345
Well-Known Member
well, its because professional agriculture pratically doesnt care for pH.
No professional grower (that has a minimum of knowledge of the medium and his water source) invest time and money regulating pH of a low alkalinity water.
But a professional grower will obviously monitor its medium pH and interact with it as needed.
You said in your own phrase: "common way to reduce alkalinity is lowering pH". But see, your focus is not pH, is reducing alkalinity.
- Thread starter
- #458
Not on my phone no. Have you read the opening post with the info from the manufacturer of a product identical to yours? Have you read the science they cite?
Not alkalinity, alkaline content. It's all there in the first post.
And just reducing the pH of your nutes will not change the pH of your substrate. Changing its chemical properties with sulfuric acid will, but that wasn't the point of the thread.
pH is not what matters but alkaline content can, over time. It's all laid out in the first post. How you deal with the possible change in the substrate pH will depend on a number of variables, but adding sulfuric acid to your nutes every time you water is not one of them.
As I might have mentioned, the pH of your nutes doesn't matter in a buffered medium, but the alkalinity can. If you have high alkaline water, you deal with it when the pH of your substrate drifts beyond the acceptable range for cannabis, and there are a few ways to do it when it happens. One of the ways to deal with a medium whose pH is too high is to acidify the medium, which can be done with sulfuric acid though that's not the recommended way according to the folks who make ProMix.
Thanks bruno!Its not that the PH doesnt matter, the thing is alkalinity matters the most.
Water pH 9,5 +70ppm of carbonates needs 1.2ml of sulfuric acid to bring it to pH 5.0
Water ph 8,3 + 300ppm of carbonates needs 6ml of sulfuric acid to bring to ph 5.0
What this means: solution pH isnt the driving force of medium pH, because its easily buffered. But when alkalinity enters the game you have a huge increase in alcalinizing strenght, which thens makes the pH of a buffered medium to increase alot faster.
its not like you would abandon the monitoring of your medium. you should investigate what are the effects of you feedings on the MEDIUM ph. After all, this charts shows that the medium pH varies over time, even on a 0ppm alcalinity.
Im another one who never adjusted pH of the solution and grew perfectly fine plants.
Thank you science for sparing my time.
Alkalinity and ph are two and seperate things that can work off each other. The alkalinity of soil/other determines whether the plant is going to feed or not. A ph'd feed can force a poorly balanced alkaline'd medium to work for us (coco, peat). It can also work to change the mediums alkalinity over time.
InTheShed just posted a more detailed response. This is how I see it. Read the work he offered and get back.
InTheShed just posted a more detailed response. This is how I see it. Read the work he offered and get back.
But do you adjust your water temperature?One of the main reasons for adding acid to tap water is to reduce or even eliminate the alkalinity of the water. Adding acid to tap water obviously reduces pH.
So the pH of nutrient water is far from being irrelevant to the pH of the growing media because acidification reduced the alkalinity of the nutrient water which causes less alkalinity to accumulate in the media over time.
On the other hand, the pH of reverse osmosis water is irrelevant to the media because it has no alkalinity.
Now does that mean everyone needs to pH their water? Nope. It does not. Because not everyone has the same water, nutes and media.
It turns out, weed is a ridiculously easy plant to grow in buffered media. We are told the ideal pH range is 5.5-6.0 with peat. In my experience with peat and watering at 5.7, the media pH starts around 6 and gets up to 7.5 by the end of the grow. I don't get deficiencies in that range.
However deficiencies can start to occur around 7.8 pH. This was also observed by the U of NC as they studied the runoffs of many professional grows.
I didn't acidify my water for one lazy run and guess what? The media pH got too high and deficiencies occurred. The end result was nothing to be proud of. So I will continue to acidify my water.