DIY SIPs Duterte's Nightmare - Mystery S. Asia Sativa - Zkittlz, Runtz, OG UV, God's Gift, GG#4, 1st Grow In 20yrs

ReservoirDog said:
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OK, so let's say there's landscape cloth used instead of the burlap. How then do the roots reach the reservoir?
 
ReservoirDog said:
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Have to go some actual gardening now.
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Genius comes to mind.
I get to bust you on the duct tape though.
You got me on my red tuck tape. :rofl:
Hope your doing well.
Take care.




Stay safe
Bill284 :cool:
 
OK, so let's say there's landscape cloth used instead of the burlap. How then do the roots reach the reservoir?
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The same way they get through your soft pot. Very easily. But the success of this system is not gained by assuring they do. That's the wrong end of the stick.

In a closely enclosed bottom reservoir setup with smaller airspaces due to the fact they are like what I believe Azimuth has arranged in only a 2 gallon pot, that's is, a rocky irregular landscape, the roots will be emboldened spreading slowly then with more intensity into the reservoir. However where the airspace is of a wider span, where fewer holds are offered and protection is limited I believe we will find them consoling themselves to grow into the 'wicking foot', feature common in this design type as approximated by myself as something protruding into the reservoir that contains a matrix capable of transmitting water via capillary action, often of that identical to the planter's matrix. Hydrodynamics tells us that particles of similar size transport liquid more easily than ones of dissimilar size). This strikes me as an opportunity for the experienced grower to control the speed at which this important if, not only, method by which our waters defy gravity to rise from their pools on our behalf. The cloth's sole purpose is merely to keep the reservoir from filling with earth and erasing this necessary separation and oxygen flow. The roots don't know they need elements found in gasses, yet they still do. We have to make sure said gasses flow continually into the water that the plant can very well access, and do so by preventing the system to fall into the gooey undecipherable mess it seemingly longs to.
 
Oi, you got me talking like a TV college professor now. Fuck. Maybe if I say fuck enough Teddy will come by and wipe the whole thing away. Fuck.

I came here to find people who could help me to not screw up all those 8 other things, so I'm your responsibility now. And you'd better look sharp, because you've got a 24 hr case on your hands now. I am selectively blind to buzzsaws going off in my face.
 
ReservoirDog said:
In a closely enclosed bottom reservoir setup with smaller airspaces due to the fact they are like what I believe Azimuth has arranged in only a 2 gallon pot, that's is, a rocky irregular landscape, the roots will be emboldened spreading slowly then with more intensity into the reservoir. However where the airspace is of a wider span, where fewer holds are offered and protection is limited I believe we will find them consoling themselves to grow into the 'wicking foot', feature common in this design type
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I've built several different designs and find they all work great. The "gravel bed" type as I describe it works well but I've found it limits the available reservoir volume late in flower as the water roots pack the reservoir, so currently I'm using that style in veg to build a bigger and more robust root system and switching over to the air void structure in flower. I haven't gone through the full cycle with that combination yet, though. First pairing is currently only about two weeks into flower so I don't know how it will end up working.
 
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RE: OK, so let's say there's landscape cloth used instead of the burlap. How then do the roots reach the reservoir?

ReservoirDog said:
The same way they get through your soft pot. Very easily. But the success of this system is not gained by assuring they do. That's the wrong end of the stick.

In a closely enclosed bottom reservoir setup with smaller airspaces due to the fact they are like what I believe Azimuth has arranged in only a 2 gallon pot, that's is, a rocky irregular landscape, the roots will be emboldened spreading slowly then with more intensity into the reservoir. However where the airspace is of a wider span, where fewer holds are offered and protection is limited I believe we will find them consoling themselves to grow into the 'wicking foot', feature common in this design type as approximated by myself as something protruding into the reservoir that contains a matrix capable of transmitting water via capillary action, often of that identical to the planter's matrix. Hydrodynamics tells us that particles of similar size transport liquid more easily than ones of dissimilar size). This strikes me as an opportunity for the experienced grower to control the speed at which this important if, not only, method by which our waters defy gravity to rise from their pools on our behalf. The cloth's sole purpose is merely to keep the reservoir from filling with earth and erasing this necessary separation and oxygen flow. The roots don't know they need elements found in gasses, yet they still do. We have to make sure said gasses flow continually into the water that the plant can very well access, and do so by preventing the system to fall into the gooey undecipherable mess it seemingly longs to.
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RD, I'm loving your colorful and poetic writing style! 🧙‍♂️

I understand what you are describing – thanks. Now, have you not yet added a wicking foot to this design in the photo, or will you grow without one? For growing cannabis, do you think a wicking foot would deliver the best outcome?

I recognize in the commercial GroBucket design, the "dome" or "tube stand" serves as a barrier around the reservoir water, helping to exclude the roots from the interior, while at the same time providing a channel for the grow medium to extend into the water. As Azimuth describes, this is where ceramic balls could be used, or coco coir and perlite.
 
ReservoirDog said:
Oi, you got me talking like a TV college professor now. Fuck. Maybe if I say fuck enough Teddy will come by and wipe the whole thing away. Fuck.

I came here to find people who could help me to not screw up all those 8 other things, so I'm your responsibility now. And you'd better look sharp, because you've got a 24 hr case on your hands now. I am selectively blind to buzzsaws going off in my face.
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ReservoirDog said:
Oi, you got me talking like a TV college professor now. Fuck. Maybe if I say fuck enough Teddy will come by and wipe the whole thing away. Fuck.

I came here to find people who could help me to not screw up all those 8 other things, so I'm your responsibility now. And you'd better look sharp, because you've got a 24 hr case on your hands now. I am selectively blind to buzzsaws going off in my face.
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Lol on that one mate. Have fallen foul of Mr Edwards before
 
cbdhemp808 said:
Now, have you not yet added a wicking foot to this design in the photo, or will you grow without one? For growing cannabis, do you think a wicking foot would deliver the best outcome?
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I can't know spec. to which photo you refer if you don't refer to it, and I haven't given them any markings to make that possible for you. Sorry mate.

Also, pardon me but I have to confirm, for your and everyone's benefit, do you understand we're speaking about a single grow-unit consisting of two totes, nested together, with the 'wicking foot" wedged between them? One is 17 gallons and shallow (planter), the other 27 gallons and deep (reservoir).

That 10-gallon discrepancy just sang out to me, "Subterrainean Irrigated Planter!" when I saw them at Canadian Tire, just as I'm sure it does to every harried, frost-bitten Joe who bursts in looking for an ice-scraper.

Both totes have the same footprint and are designed to nest together for storage. I thought this feature, the fact that weight was carried and spread aloft, along the top, much-strengthened opening edge, where here one rests against the other, would make it the strongest design I could think of from a non-purpose-built, off-the-shelf container design.

Emphasis on strength because 20 Gallons of peat/perlite at field capacity weighs a fuck-ton. Perhaps even two fuck-tons. Add to that another 6 gallons fert water separated deep below and Betty here weighs over 200lbs plus, if she weighs an ounce.

Look, there's nothing wrong with heavy-betties. Like I said prev., I got no issue wit dat, I'd wing man the shit outta that if called upon. However, if you are to engage then certain precautions, as with all serious endeavours in life, must be taken. :cheesygrinsmiley:

By chance alone, the 'wicking foot' when illustrated previously has always been empty in previous pics, but rest assured, one is packed and deployed in all 14 I've built and used so far (ten for tomatoes last year, no, I mean actual tomatoes. I wasn't growing canna last year or for many years before that.

A note on wicking foots, er, feet, they must be packed to maximum density before you move on to building out and closing it up so it cant become packed by gravity later, over time. This could cause slo-mo sloughing downward potentially causing the wick foot to lose contact with the planter matrix and killing the plant from draught even though plentiful water sits 1 inch away. No foot connection, no capillary action, no bueno.

I'm running a second design also, I'll show everyone again in a few, as well as some more pics of this design I found. Most of this stuff can be found scrolling through the last half of my "tent build" journal (my first here, started Jan/Feb this year) and this thread within the first three pages, I think (?)

Secondarily, I've observed that plants' roots appear to impart a suction of their own on the rez liquid that moves it upward against gravity. When you take a SIP like mine, or BUDs', apart this becomes quite clear as moisture is elevated surrounding even the smallest root, and for at least an eighth of an inch sorrounding. I think the underlying force here may be the osmotic pressure the plants generate/rely on for nute transfer and upward movement within Xylem. Perhaps it is reproduced on a larger scale, maybe an 'echo effect' maximizes this, or it's microbe-related and thus driven by the nearly smallest of scales. Perhaps, as seems likely to my unqualified mind, it is both and more. I dunno, just guessing. But clearly, the plant is closely associated with other, powerful, moisture-pulling forces.

I'm not a scientist, just a weed farmer long out-of-practice, and a formerly guerilla-style, outdoors one, at that. I've everything to learn here and have thoroughly enjoyed it thus far, 420. Thank you so much. If this helps people grow meds - that'd be f-ing brilliant in the extreme. I stumbled into it trying to scare up some container-grown veggies last year when I embraced gardening in a kind of serious way for the first time. So you see, I've really only just left Nubesville, and embarked for the great city. Consider this when reading my droning thoughts on what's what.
 
ReservoirDog said:
6FE6DDA2-5A7B-4589-9E7F-08EC5069AFBC.jpeg



I can't know spec. to which photo you refer if you don't refer to it, and I haven't given them any markings to make that possible for you. Sorry mate.
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The only photo in my reply, mate.

ReservoirDog said:
Also, pardon me but I have to confirm, for your and everyone's benefit, do you understand we're speaking about a single grow-unit consisting of two totes, nested together, with the 'wicking foot" wedged between them? One is 17 gallons and shallow (planter), the other 27 gallons and deep (reservoir).
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Yes, I did and do understand that. I saw your "net pot", and thought you might fill it with medium, but didn't see a photo of that until now, thanks.

ReservoirDog said:
That 10-gallon discrepancy just sang out to me, "Subterrainean Irrigated Planter!" when I saw them at Canadian Tire, just as I'm sure it does to every harried, frost-bitten Joe who bursts in looking for an ice-scraper.

Both totes have the same footprint and are designed to nest together for storage. I thought this feature, the fact that weight was carried and spread aloft, along the top, much-strengthened opening edge, where here one rests against the other, would make it the strongest design I could think of from a non-purpose-built, off-the-shelf container design.
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👍
ReservoirDog said:
By chance alone, the 'wicking foot' when illustrated previously has always been empty in previous pics, but rest assured, one is packed and deployed in all 14 I've built and used so far (ten for tomatoes last year, no, I mean actual tomatoes. I wasn't growing canna last year or for many years before that.

A note on wicking foots, er, feet, they must be packed to maximum density before you move on to building out and closing it up so it cant become packed by gravity later, over time. This could cause slo-mo sloughing downward potentially causing the wick foot to lose contact with the planter matrix and killing the plant from draught even though plentiful water sits 1 inch away. No foot connection, no capillary action, no bueno.
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👍
One question... do you open up the burlap weed cloth so roots can go right into the wicking foot medium?

ReservoirDog said:
... Thank you so much. If this helps people grow meds - that'd be f-ing brilliant in the extreme.
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agreed!

🙏
 
Is this the one? How can I help you,RD?
Concerning the training, in my journal, check out post #6610- @Timhomegrow put links to all the tutorials in one place (Thanks so much, Tim!)
I would've just linked it, but I can't get the link thing to work on this phone .a :hmmmm:
 
Yeah, apologies cbd, I just had to double check. Note that the pic you're referring to is a fully assembled unit so you can't see the net pot, its in the rez and blocked from view by the planter on top of it here and the burlap blocking any sight.

Regardless the textile the roots will find a way through. However this really is not a significant concern even if the roots do not enter the foot.

Why?

I believe we need to dissociate ourselves from the idea of this system as a DWC/Soil hybrid in practice. It can be described to be similar physically, but I think its been teaching people to believe that developing so-called water roots is the key to accelerated growth in SIPs.

Again, these are my impressions, but I have a lot of time to think and research and experiment with these ideas. Way more than most people because I'm disabled and thus very early retired from my career running small ships/large boats. I'm always trying to get other work, and I was successful trading in Energy and Ag markets 2011-2018 from home for a US firm, but as things have worsened physically those types of opportunities too have become much more difficult.

Point being, simply, my working theories aren't baseless, but neither are they fleshed out with a lot of supporting data. But I have combed just about the entire internet's English writing and video related to SIPs, thought about it all quite a lot, and developed strong hunches. Hunches, however, are a captain's best friend, and I was an excellent captain. Only time will tell on this one.

I think the key to the faster growth in SIPs and thus larger plants in given time is the fact that conditions of moisture, including most importantly its gradient up and down the matrix, are those of ultimate stability by comparison to other container garden systems. This triggers the plant to focus on the above ground mass potential far more often, confident that with the hydrotropically arranged and typed roots it has in place will continue to offer unlimited feed and moisture.

Airpumps, some very experienced and invested minds have discovered, can trigger wild PH swings in various media. The recommendation is, if you insist on placing one, is to put it on a timer and run no more than 25% of the time. In my experiments with airpumps/stones, and waterpumps/venturis, I have seen dramatic changes with fulltime mechanical aeration. When natural airflow is unfettered from the intake spout to the overflow, I believe this is the most stable arrangement and offers DWC-like growth but not for the same 'giant ball of water roots" reason.

My pumps run only 15 min every 4 hours, or 5 minutes per hour at the moment. I am experimenting with a low CFM aquarium-type airpump and stone however on 50% of the time in a test-only 5 gal. SIP and no spikes yet. Water in that test is a 10-7-12 MC 2 part that measures 500ppm dilution. My tapwater is 0-10ppm, pH7.
 
Carcass said:
Is this the one? How can I help you,RD?
Concerning the training, in my journal, check out post #6610- @Timhomegrow put links to all the tutorials in one place (Thanks so much, Tim!)
I would've just linked it, but I can't get the link thing to work on this phone .a :hmmmm:
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Yes it is, sorry Carcass, I became distracted responding to a post. Maybe just, at your leisure, take a gander at the pics I put up next and if you see anything worth remarking on, let me know. Thanks for the Tip roundup link. So grateful. Please don't hesitate if I can ever be of service.
 
Cool, I'll check 'em out :thumb:
 
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Here ya go carcass. I’ll try to be brief (yet fail) describing relevant details.

Here’s the whole enchilada. At flower flip only the 4 10 gallon pots in SIP containers will be present. Not ideal spacing obviously with this, but I’ve been experimenting with the training and know how I will improve next run.

Anyway, my flowering plan is to drop an independent scrog on each container and am building dollies as well as one integrated system for each tote /SIP. The scrog wiill be larger than the tote footprint, expanding lengthwise and towards tent wall. Hopefully this will help me use my lighting more efficiently.

There’s a 1100w bar light above, about 1.2m sq. (4ftx4ft), Samsung l301h’s, 2900ppd. Sufficient.
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In this, (upside down) top down, pic it’s Ultra Violet OG on the right, a very stocky, strong indica hybrid. On the left, Runtz.

Both were topped after 4th node. All kept their lower branches.

I have been mercilessly spearing every growth tip down, daily. You should see how tight the nodes are, it’s hilarious…there’s no more than a measured inch off the ground before the topping’s Y on the tallest one.
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At the moment everyone is recovered from yesterday’s training. I reset many carhooks
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each day to keep growing outward. I am trying to leave a skirt of mature fan leaves all around plant perimeter as @Hafta has illustrated in the quad squad thread.
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The plant above is unique. It’s vigour exceeded others, freakishly, from day 1 so I put a 90 degree clip in it below 1st node to lay it on its side, and give me a chance at a canopy level with others. The results are something I mean to repeat on all plants going forward as a means of directing each plant away from the center and possible conflict/loss of efficiency and toward the ends and sides of tent/light footprint.

I remove leaves pointed inward that block light from targets but have a policy of keeping as many batteries attached as is reasonable.
 
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