- Thread starter
- #21
NVM the Box.
For a GFCI outlet I would have to purchase it along with a wall plate then power down the circuit and replace the old receptacle with the new GFCI right?
DIY-Become a DIY home grower Electrical Engineers
- Thread starter Myzz617
- Start date
NVM the Box.
For a GFCI outlet I would have to purchase it along with a wall plate then power down the circuit and replace the old receptacle with the new GFCI right?
G-Dog
New Member
Good Point HD, and one I try to stress to everyone as much as possible. My point is that a safety ground is the bare minimum.
For those that don't know, a GFI is a Ground Fault Interrupt.
Without getting all technical, a fact in electrical flow is that the current (amps) are the same throughout the circuit. It is a physical law.
What a GFI does is measure the current in both sides (the black and the white) and if they are not equal it opens up the circuit or turns it off.
What can happen in an electrical circuit is a wire nut can come off, vibration, UV light rays or HEAT can wear insulation, or a connection can come undone. This live wire can touch the metal housing of a fan or light or touch you personally. What the GFI does is senses current going into one line (black for instance) and not the same going back through the white. When the GFI senses this it opens the circuit or shuts it down.
HD is sounds like an electrician that installs these things in his work, per code. Code requires GFI or GFCI circuit breakers or outlets in wet places like kitchens, laundries, bathroom or outdoors. Think of an indoor grow as a wet place.
One of the problems with GFI outlets is that they are sensitive and will shut down. Something like a worn fan that arcs to the chassis will shut you down. Worn insulation will cause some current leakage and shut it down too. People do not get shocked and everything works and they get frustrated and take the GFI out. That is not advised.
My wife had all these animated Christmas decorations, moving rain deer out in the yard. It rains a lot in the winter and those things would trip the GFI. She got a giant extension cord and put power strip on it around the GFI. I freaked out when I seen that. Funny thing is she loved her decorations more than her own our our pets safety and refused to use the outlets that were protected by GFI.
In a typical GFI installation you have one outlet that is GFI and it protects all the outlets in the circuit that Are Down Stream. If you have say 5 outlets coming from a circuit breaker the outlet closest to the panel has to be GFI. If you pick the second or third outlet those closer to the panel are not protected. This seems to only happen when people retrofit a GFI into a circuit in an existing home. Do not assume all the outlets have GFI protection. It is conceivable that an outlet that appears closer to the panel is not. Know what you have and do not assume.
yes
Don't let your GF/SO use a hairdryer in that bathroom.
In fact, do not assume ANYTHING unless you've done all the wiring yourself. You'd be surprised at some of the insanely stupid stuff that people have done (or, if you're an electrician, probably not because you've most likely had to deal with it).
I saw a very tragic video of a 19 year old death by electrocution in full view of his parents because he chose to wash his car with a boombox plugged in a few feet way.....
G-Dog
New Member
I am not sure I would call a retrofit as insane as an electrician would. Electricians spend years learning code and responding to inspections.
People that own (or rent) a home may change something for some need. Just put a new GFI outlet in a room to just protect that room. It is not insane, it is for a particular purpose. It is better to have a GFI in this case than not at all.
The responsible thing to do would be to remove that GFI when you move so that others will not assume that the entire circuit is protected for ground fault.
An example:
You have two bedrooms that share a common wall and an outlet circuit serves both rooms. Bedroom one is closer electrically to the main panel. Bedroom two is made into a grow room and you just add a GFI to that bedroom to protect the grow op. It is fine and better than no GFI. But bedroom one is not protected from ground fault and someone may think that it is because of a GFI outlet in the same circuit.
People that own (or rent) a home may change something for some need. Just put a new GFI outlet in a room to just protect that room. It is not insane, it is for a particular purpose. It is better to have a GFI in this case than not at all.
The responsible thing to do would be to remove that GFI when you move so that others will not assume that the entire circuit is protected for ground fault.
An example:
You have two bedrooms that share a common wall and an outlet circuit serves both rooms. Bedroom one is closer electrically to the main panel. Bedroom two is made into a grow room and you just add a GFI to that bedroom to protect the grow op. It is fine and better than no GFI. But bedroom one is not protected from ground fault and someone may think that it is because of a GFI outlet in the same circuit.
- Thread starter
- #27
Is it easy to install a GFI after purchasing? Should prob just you tube it. And TS my GF/BM or FB what ever so have you none of them live with me and if they spend the night they will be going home to get ready Lol or worse come to worse I will make sure they dont use one and if they do it will be in my room where i plan to install one. I want to make every outlet in the planned grow room GFCI but not sure if i will do that. Another thing to add onto the grow room expense list.
If you are going to use multiple outlets that are on the same circuit, you only need one GFCI outlet. You can protect the outlets with the same GFCI.
- Thread starter
- #29
Great I will double check tomorrow in the bathroom to see if one is GFI HowStuffWorks "How does a GFCI outlet work?" Love this website for learning how things work!
It's just not as easy as just replacing an outlet. If you have receptacles downstream of the gfci you need to know which pair of wires in the receptacle your replacing are the hot wires coming in and which pair are feeding out to the other outlets. The gfci requires incoming wires on certain screws and outgoing wires on certain screws.
G-Dog
New Member
If you buy a quality GFI outlet it will have a diagram and instructions that will show you how to wire it correctly. Ideally you will want to replace the outlet that is closest to the power panel in the circuit so that all the outlets are GFI protected.
It is almost like we could have a thread on GFI outlets.
It may be better to replace a circuit breaker with a GFI circuit breaker instead of trying to figure out which outlet is closest to the panel. Hard to always know what goes on behind the drywall.
With the kinds of loads that we can encounter in a grow room adding one or two dedicated GFI circuit may be the way to go. If you look in your panel and you have slots or spaces that are not used you could easily add a couple 20 amp circuits. 15 amp is the code minimum for general purpose circuits but if I ever go through the trouble of adding a circuit I always just add 20 amps. This cost difference is not significant and the 25% added power is well worth it. Things like AC units really do require a dedicated 20 amp circuit.
It is almost like we could have a thread on GFI outlets.
It may be better to replace a circuit breaker with a GFI circuit breaker instead of trying to figure out which outlet is closest to the panel. Hard to always know what goes on behind the drywall.
With the kinds of loads that we can encounter in a grow room adding one or two dedicated GFI circuit may be the way to go. If you look in your panel and you have slots or spaces that are not used you could easily add a couple 20 amp circuits. 15 amp is the code minimum for general purpose circuits but if I ever go through the trouble of adding a circuit I always just add 20 amps. This cost difference is not significant and the 25% added power is well worth it. Things like AC units really do require a dedicated 20 amp circuit.
PrairiePoet
Well-Known Member
Going back to your post and that vendor...
This would work for you on replacing an outlet in your room.
Leviton 15A White GFCI with Red/Black Buttons - R62-07599-0RW at The Home Depot
And here is a breaker for GFI:
15 Amp Ground Fault Plug-On Circuit Breaker,QO-GFI Qwik-Gard® - 52231 at The Home Depot
One of the habits I've gotten into is to check all power cords daily. Some of my power strips have long cords, and bend around inside the cabinet. It has become habit now to run my hand over any bend in the cable, the cable right at the plug and where it goes into the strip. Just looking for heat, any heat. Any cable warmer than the ambient room is a problem (IMO). I also keep all power cables out of the direct light as much as possible.
Just keeping an eye out for any unexpected problems.
Prairie
SnowBender
New Member
Did not see this mentioned...When working with electricity, ALWAYS keep one hand in your pocket at all times. That way any electric shock wont arc directly across your heart.
Did not see this mentioned...When working with electricity, ALWAYS keep one hand in your pocket at all times. That way any electric shock wont arc directly across your heart.
Correct, but in most cases, not practical....
G-Dog
New Member
I have been working with electricity for Many years.
One of the things I personally do when working in voltages of 120 and up is to treat every circuit as live, even though I turned off (and maybe even tagged) a circuit breaker. I handle all bare conductors with insulated tools and attempt to keep them away from anything that would short a live circuit.
Overkill? Maybe.. but who knows if someone else could have turned the power back on or maybe you even turned off the wrong breaker. I have been known to measure a presumed dead circuit with my multimeter before working on it as well.
Have I been shocked? Many times. I have also shorted out and burned up equipment by working on a charged circuit and thinking I am so good I can get away with it.
I have never been one to only work with one hand, as HD says that is not very practical. Bending big conductors into a tight spot or just getting work done in a timely manner can make one-handed working prohibitive. Insuring that all grounds, GFIs and other safeties are in place and properly working is a big step. Disconnecting power is another.
One of the things I personally do when working in voltages of 120 and up is to treat every circuit as live, even though I turned off (and maybe even tagged) a circuit breaker. I handle all bare conductors with insulated tools and attempt to keep them away from anything that would short a live circuit.
Overkill? Maybe.. but who knows if someone else could have turned the power back on or maybe you even turned off the wrong breaker. I have been known to measure a presumed dead circuit with my multimeter before working on it as well.
Have I been shocked? Many times. I have also shorted out and burned up equipment by working on a charged circuit and thinking I am so good I can get away with it.
I have never been one to only work with one hand, as HD says that is not very practical. Bending big conductors into a tight spot or just getting work done in a timely manner can make one-handed working prohibitive. Insuring that all grounds, GFIs and other safeties are in place and properly working is a big step. Disconnecting power is another.
- Thread starter
- #36
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/IMG00442-20100813-1112.jpg
so If i upgrade the breaker to a 20amp GFI thaT protects the whole circuit correct? Also does it matter If i was to get to $60 20amp breaker or the one less than $20? Above is a image of my CP it is rather small compared to a regular home breaker box panel.
so If i upgrade the breaker to a 20amp GFI thaT protects the whole circuit correct? Also does it matter If i was to get to $60 20amp breaker or the one less than $20? Above is a image of my CP it is rather small compared to a regular home breaker box panel.
G-Dog
New Member
Yes, if you buy a GFI circuit breaker you do protect that entire circuit and often that is the best route for a retrofit. However, are you replacing 15 amp breakers with 20 amp? That is a no no. You do not increase circuit protection. The wire and the outlets are rated for the original 15 amp circuit breaker. Increasing the breaker size is one of the number one rules. If you want 20 amp circuits you have to add new runs of 12 AWG wire. What happens is if you have (aging) 15 amp wire (14 AWG) and it sees 17-19 amps is will get hot, burn off the insulation, short out and cause a fire. This will not happen immediately, it will happen gradually and likely fill your home with smoke and kill you all in your sleep.
Money is not Always a good indication that something is better, but if you list your two selections for breakers I will give my opinion. Again, if you are replacing a 20 amp circuit breaker with a 20 amp GFI circuit breaker all is fine. If you are putting a 20 amp in place of a 15 that is highly discouraged. In your picture I seen some blanks where you could add some new breakers. It is not that hard to run a new 20 amp circuit or two with 20 amp outlets and wire.
Money is not Always a good indication that something is better, but if you list your two selections for breakers I will give my opinion. Again, if you are replacing a 20 amp circuit breaker with a 20 amp GFI circuit breaker all is fine. If you are putting a 20 amp in place of a 15 that is highly discouraged. In your picture I seen some blanks where you could add some new breakers. It is not that hard to run a new 20 amp circuit or two with 20 amp outlets and wire.
What he said. I have seen an outlet that the genius ([/SARCASM]) who wired it previously had ran a LIVE wire from a nearby outlet that was on a separate circuit. Why? IDK, lol - sadism maybe. But I flipped the breaker off for that circuit, noted that the fan that was plugged in to that outlet stopped running, pulled the outlet... And got that old rubber-arm exploding fillings in your jaw feeling. Go figure.
That outlet was a GFCI in a garage and it "worked" but not correctly.
- Thread starter
- #39
Adding a new 20AMP breaker would be much work plus im renting I dont wish to put that much work into the place im renting now. In the Pic there is a 20AMP breaker #18 and 19 they both say 20 on them but im sure its only 20AMPS and not 40 that is the breaker for the AC. https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/IMG00440-20100813-1111.jpg
Would this do for the 15AMP GFCI replacements? Amazon: 1" Arc Fault Breaker 15 Amp 120V
And for the 20AMP that the AC uses Homeline 20 Amp Single Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker - 07110 at The Home Depot
Not to sure if these will be too big for my panel. Wish i knew all this sh*t before i moved would have went with a different apt.
Would this do for the 15AMP GFCI replacements? Amazon: 1" Arc Fault Breaker 15 Amp 120V
And for the 20AMP that the AC uses Homeline 20 Amp Single Pole GFCI Circuit Breaker - 07110 at The Home Depot
Not to sure if these will be too big for my panel. Wish i knew all this sh*t before i moved would have went with a different apt.
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