Atulip
New Member
Has anyone tried topping one of these yet? Planting one tomorrow, and I'll look to top it in a couple weeks.
Dark Devil Auto: A Community Grow Record
- Thread starter SweetSue
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #222
I haven't, and thank you for being the brave one.
My leggy one is at day 85 right now, so even under diminished lighting she's running towards 13 weeks and may get up to 15 weeks. This suggests you can be rather traditional in the timing and not set the plant back so much. I'd posted on Canna's journal yesterday about my success in following Graytail's lead to wait a bit longer, until the plant makes that jump upwards - I'm certain you know precisely what moment I hint at here - and top it then. It's longer than most choose to wait, but the plant seems to be better prepared to bounce back unscathed.
My Carnival, as well as any of the never-ending parade of beauties passing through Master Graytail's flower room, is an example of the success of waiting.
My Carnival set her level canopy within 4 days of the topping. Quite extraordinary to watch, I'll tell you. She laughed at me when I topped her. 
I could almost hear her giggle when I came over to bend and tuck. LOL! It was great fun to pull off. 
I would think this consideration would be even more valuable when topping finicky autos, although none of my autos were ever finicky.
I have two of the Christmas Tree-style phenotype and I'm not certain I'd top them, although..... It might encourage the side colas better. I still have many seeds to play with and will be ordering more. I'm enjoying the spirit of adventure and exploration we're developing here.
We've got some superb threads running at the present time. Conradino's landrace thread is breathtaking. I get overwhelmed by the genius sitting around that campfire. Can you imagine? Hahaha! I'd be sitting on the floor, passing the joints and trying to catch every word. The contact high would lay you out.
Ahhhh.... we can dream.
Atulip
New Member
Dark Devil (Day 1)
Seed planted directly in soil. The first of my new perpetual auto grow. She's under an old style Mars 300w LED (130 true watts). Later on she'll be moved under a 600w HPS. We will be looking to top her and we will be looking to do that around the 3 weeks mark, depending on her size.
Soil is Coots in a 5 gallon smart pot on an swick bed.(dry for now(need a dehumidifier) We may feed with the General Organics line or do some compost teas depending on how lazy I want to be.
Lights are 12/12 but will be 16/8 or 18/6 when I finish flowering the photoperiods in the same tent.(Estimated finish of photoperiods is the first week of January, so she'll be 12/12 most of her life)
@SweetSue my goal is to top as early as possible, 3rd node or so. Only topped one auto so far, but it went flawlessly and kept my lady wide and short. I want to top all autos I plan to grow to see how they respond. I believe it shouldn't slow growth more than a few days if done correctly.
Seed planted directly in soil. The first of my new perpetual auto grow. She's under an old style Mars 300w LED (130 true watts). Later on she'll be moved under a 600w HPS. We will be looking to top her and we will be looking to do that around the 3 weeks mark, depending on her size.
Soil is Coots in a 5 gallon smart pot on an swick bed.(dry for now(need a dehumidifier) We may feed with the General Organics line or do some compost teas depending on how lazy I want to be.
Lights are 12/12 but will be 16/8 or 18/6 when I finish flowering the photoperiods in the same tent.(Estimated finish of photoperiods is the first week of January, so she'll be 12/12 most of her life)
@SweetSue my goal is to top as early as possible, 3rd node or so. Only topped one auto so far, but it went flawlessly and kept my lady wide and short. I want to top all autos I plan to grow to see how they respond. I believe it shouldn't slow growth more than a few days if done correctly.
sonicDlf
New Member
I have found that if you top when the top is as small as possible you will not see any slow in growth .
I also looked to find the best way of doing it when the top is that small and found nail clippers to be perfect for the job because the sides of the clippers push down the bits you don't want to hurt , hope this helps someone .
Be safe .
I also looked to find the best way of doing it when the top is that small and found nail clippers to be perfect for the job because the sides of the clippers push down the bits you don't want to hurt , hope this helps someone .
Be safe .
Why would you consider "topping"?
Do some research on "Apical Meristem". This should lead you to a definite conclusion before you actually "top" your plants.
Here's a write up from a university on this subject. I suggest anyone thinking of "topping"; I.E. cutting off the main stem or "top" AKA Apical Meristem do your homework prior to doing this.
7.1.2 Shoot apical meristems | Plants in Action
The apical maristem or "top" is a plant organ that the plant requires to take itself to maturity = flowering. You cut on one the plant will grow another and it will take some time for this to occur. With a timed or "auto" plant this will unfortunately lead to a reduced yield.
So the question is this "why would you want to 'top' a plant?"
IF the answer is to promote more bud growth, you'll be better off cutting side branches and clone them, and yes this can be done with auto strains with one caveat, the clone with be the same age as the donor plant with the same time period for maturation (flower).
I have topped an auto, once. I had 2 the same and 1 got topped. It was done very early, day 13 if I remember rightly. The topped one didn't yield any more than the un topped one but it did take 3 weeks longer to finish.
glimmergrass
New Member
Woo hoo!
I dropped my DD seed in water tonight, so I hope to be officially on board in a couple of days!
Dark Devil Auto
in 75% coco coir and 25% perlite
once sprouted it will go right into 3 gallon Smart Pot
under MarsHydro 96x5 LED reflector
in a 40in x 40in x 78in grow tent
GH nutes
I dropped my DD seed in water tonight, so I hope to be officially on board in a couple of days!
Dark Devil Auto
in 75% coco coir and 25% perlite
once sprouted it will go right into 3 gallon Smart Pot
under MarsHydro 96x5 LED reflector
in a 40in x 40in x 78in grow tent
GH nutes
That's interesting in that an AUTO flowering plant is time dependent. I was under the impression that I have say 65 days from seedling to chop... nothing I can do to change that. I thought that's how Autos work??
If say I can change/extend the time with something I do in the flower room; I.E. topping, then I should be able to modify or gain a certain amount of yield. I thought the finish time was "written in stone" ??
I'm still learning how to grow autos so I'm no expert but I have found thru experimentation and education that topping is counter productive. I will be experimenting with this for sure. I usually don't even mess with transplanting autos - seedling --> final pot and water is all I do.
Just popped 2 more Dark Devil seeds and they sprouted - the cotyledons have a purple tinge to them!!
Here's my next plant getting ready for harvest - Matero Blue - this was supposed to be photo period but went into bloom on a 20/4 schedule before I got a chance to put them in the flower room. Looks good w/ dense nugs too. Sweet like candy with a side of dank!
Atulip
New Member
I want to "top" my plants beacause I have a height limit of around 2 feet, and topping is a simple method that allows for easy lst. As for yield increases, that theory comes from increased light absorbtion from a wider canopy.
While I could read an article every time I want to try something new, I wouldn't have a very fullfilling life. I'd much rather experiment and explore different growing styles first hand.
I'm not sure how cloning autos would increase yield. If I had more space for pots I would just plant more seeds. What I'm saying is if properly timed, topping only adds a few days of slowed growth. Compared to a couple weeks of rooting clones.
Fast and Vast Auto, 3 node mutation, topped at day 23.
Fast and Vast Day 30(7 days later). She's the one on the left. As you can see, growth kept up if not exceeded the two untouched fast and Vast plants.
Fast and Vast near the end.
She ended around 18" tall compared to 23-26" of the two other plants, and of course much wider, with a more even distribution of "top" bud. The two untouched plants combined harvest of top bud was 59.2 grams, with the topped plant in the same container yielding 54.8g.
Wider canopy just means more light used, and that has only proven to be a good thing, or else no one would be topping their plants.
Photoperiod examples.
topped NLxBB 8/23/15
NLxBB 8/29/15 Two new tops already taken over.
And the same plant today.
Blue Kush topped 10/3/15
10/10/15 New tops growing strong.
and the same plant today.
In conclusion, I'm not trying to force a growing style onto anyone else. Topping my plants is for me. I simply want to share that information with anyone who's interested.
- Thread starter
- #230
+Reps for the informative and beautifully illustrated response Atulip. I also benefitted from a well-timed topping. Your illustrations got my blood zipping, thinking about my next run of tiny pots and my desire to train better.
Beautiful plants.
Beautiful plants.
Hey there Atulip I was just sharing some science there for you with regard to topping.
My real world results from experience regarding yield, I got better results (yield) with LST leaving the apical meristem in place, just a little training was needed for upper limit height. Bend her over ... always a good approach.
As an aside; I'm passing this along from folks with a lot more experience than I have. I've done the real world tests to verify.
My real world results from experience regarding yield, I got better results (yield) with LST leaving the apical meristem in place, just a little training was needed for upper limit height. Bend her over ... always a good approach.
As an aside; I'm passing this along from folks with a lot more experience than I have. I've done the real world tests to verify.
That's interesting in that an AUTO flowering plant is time dependent. I was under the impression that I have say 65 days from seedling to chop... nothing I can do to change that. I thought that's how Autos work??
If say I can change/extend the time with something I do in the flower room; I.E. topping, then I should be able to modify or gain a certain amount of yield. I thought the finish time was "written in stone" ??
I'm still learning how to grow autos so I'm no expert but I have found thru experimentation and education that topping is counter productive. I will be experimenting with this for sure. I usually don't even mess with transplanting autos - seedling --> final pot and water is all I do.
Just popped 2 more Dark Devil seeds and they sprouted - the cotyledons have a purple tinge to them!!
Here's my next plant getting ready for harvest - Matero Blue - this was supposed to be photo period but went into bloom on a 20/4 schedule before I got a chance to put them in the flower room. Looks good w/ dense nugs too. Sweet like candy with a side of dank!
I wouldn't say that an auto has a pre determined life cycle, it's born, flowers and then dies (I assume as I never left one that long). Take the dark devil as an example. The Breader says 60 days from seed to harvest. Mine is looking at 70 or so days yet sue has one at 80 something days. Environment, stress, light cycle and other factors, I believe, can bring them on or push them back. I wouldn't say that there life cycle was "set in stone"
Thanks that makes sense. All I do is water and wait for no more new pistols then harvest.
Just for an FYI here - I harvested a Blackberry Kush - they look the same and smell the same as the DarkDevil.
Be careful when harvesting.
Our house is pretty dry at say 30% RH and this last plant had a tad of mold on a few green spots on the bud. I had it hanging for 6 days and it felt a little crunchy so I thought I'd trim and jar. Saw the beginnings of PM - I'm talking EXTREMELY small amount on some green leaves. I cut that out when trimming but I did not put into jars. I'm letting the finished trimmed buds sit out on a tray overnight and see if I can get them a bit drier.
With this one its a fine line between too dry and crunchy and dank enough to mold up if I don't let it dry enough. I am going to err on the conservative side and let the buds get drier before going into jars. I've had them turn to mush overnight before just like this. I was impatient and wanted to jar them up only to take a look the next morning to a jar of mushy white buds that go to the compost bin.
Back to the topic of topping autos... I will experiment with cloning and see where that takes me. I'm not a believer in topping anything as that method delays maturation. Seems counter productive since maturation is the goal here. I get the ladies to flower and try and figure out a way to extend that flowering time as long as possible without bananas showing.
I'm an organic gardener so I use some of the tools in my toolbox to get plants to flower sooner and flower longer. Those tools are SST. Sprouted seed teas - organic non-gmo popcorn seeds, Alfalfa seeds (organic), Kelp Meal (favorite), Wheat grass (good for us and plants), malted barley and top dress in with Rabbit Berries for the long haul (N boost) and of course foiler feeding with Kelp Meal tea.
MagicJim
Creme de la Creme Photos: Sept 2016
Dark Devil Auto - Day 56
Background: In 4'x4' tent, Mars Hydro II 900 along with 2 photo period plants so she's been 12/12 since 10/30/15 using RAW nutes, some Overdrive, Molasses and a taste of Epson salt at last watering. She was germinated in her final 5 gal smart pot. She is 20 inches and bud back building of 3 colas was done 11/18/2015.
Background: In 4'x4' tent, Mars Hydro II 900 along with 2 photo period plants so she's been 12/12 since 10/30/15 using RAW nutes, some Overdrive, Molasses and a taste of Epson salt at last watering. She was germinated in her final 5 gal smart pot. She is 20 inches and bud back building of 3 colas was done 11/18/2015.
Nice job Jim she looks great
glimmergrass
New Member
Yeah, her colours are gorgeous, MJ!
My DD was sprouted by this morning:
I planted her in her final container in a 75/25 mix of coco coir and perlite:
My DD was sprouted by this morning:
I planted her in her final container in a 75/25 mix of coco coir and perlite:
Jim she is a beauty. Her colors are really coming through now.
Lets get per perpetual with the Dark Devil!! ???
