Critique my Living Soil recipe

[bobrown14]

Looks pretty close to my current soil mix I've been using over and over. Based off of Coots mix we worked with many years ago now.


I think the only thing I dont use in your mix is Rove Bettles

Whatever they are I'm glad they are in my compost bin.

The other thing I don't use but probably have some on my shelf is your Calcium Bentonite. I should add some next mix. It's good and limiting heavy metal mobility in plants. So that's a good thing. I get plenty of Ca from Oyster Shell flour, gypsum, Crab shell meal, EWC and my compost.

Funny thing, yesterday I just emptied out last years vermi-compost bin and put the left overs in a bin and added in some Coast of Main Lobster compost about 50/50. I'll use that as an amendment.

@Nunyabiz - you should start a journal. We need more organic farmers like you.

Have you tried adding in some Malted Barley ground to a fine powder. Really kicks up the soil microbes puts them into over drive. MBP is enzymes and thats a catalyst for growth. I've been getting larger, faster finishing and stronger plants with more resin. It works GREAT with Chitin and your insect frass as well.
It will help microbes break them down into usable form for the plants.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Looks pretty close to my current soil mix I've been using over and over. Based off of Coots mix we worked with many years ago now.


I think the only thing I dont use in your mix is Rove Bettles

Whatever they are I'm glad they are in my compost bin.

The other thing I don't use but probably have some on my shelf is your Calcium Bentonite. I should add some next mix. It's good and limiting heavy metal mobility in plants. So that's a good thing. I get plenty of Ca from Oyster Shell flour, gypsum, Crab shell meal, EWC and my compost.

Funny thing, yesterday I just emptied out last years vermi-compost bin and put the left overs in a bin and added in some Coast of Main Lobster compost about 50/50. I'll use that as an amendment.

@Nunyabiz - you should start a journal. We need more organic farmers like you.

Have you tried adding in some Malted Barley ground to a fine powder. Really kicks up the soil microbes puts them into over drive. MBP is enzymes and thats a catalyst for growth. I've been getting larger, faster finishing and stronger plants with more resin. It works GREAT with Chitin and your insect frass as well.
It will help microbes break them down into usable form for the plants.

Yes, that reminded me, I also use the Craftblend to re-amend the soil between grows and feed the worms with, the Craftblend has 3 varieties of malted barley in it. So there is quite a bit of malted barley in the soil.
I also use Sprouted seed teas made from corn and alfalfa for the enzymes.

1. Thorvin Premium Kelp Meal
2. Karanja Cake - Terviva
3. Alfalfa Meal
4. CalPhos
5. Camelina Meal
6. Crustacean Meal
7. Fish Meal
8. 3x Fish Bone Meal
9. Soybean Meal
10. Sul-Po-Mag (Also Known as K-Mag or Langbeinite)
11. Malted Barley Grains (3 Varieties)
12. Azomite
13. Basalt - Local Colorado
14. Gypsum
15. Oyster Flour

I did one journal awhile back and had I think one person that was interested at all so I just didn't bother wasting my time on it after that.
Although that journal was about 3+ years ago and was my last grow that I did that wasn't 100% organic no-till.

I think most people that would try this method would never go back to any other type of growing, the results are superior in every way.
My buds are usually so loaded with trichomes that I can't even use a grinder any more, it just gums up and turns into little hash balls if you try to grind it.
I have to use scissors and clean them often.

The Rove Beetles help take care of any fungus gnats which as I am sure you know if you grow with 100% organic no-till you WILL get fungus gnats.
But with the Rove Beetles, predator Mites in mass quantities all through the soil they probably eat the fungus gnat eggs and larvae right as they are being laid, I doubt they live a day.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I just checked out your grow journal, looks nice.
I would make a suggestion though, try not to use the H2O2 very much as it will kill all your microbes/mycorrhazae on contact also.

Since you have fairly small pots you might not be able to maintain a large population of predators like the beetles and Mites but one thing that works very well and doesn't murder your microbes is Gnatrol which is just BTI.

 

[bobrown14]

Craft Blend from BAS right? I have some.

I was using the Coots nutrient blend portion of the Coots mix BAS has cause I had some left over. Bought a bag of the Craft Blend. I've been adding it to my compost bin. I'm not a fan of CalPhos/K-mag/Azomite in a smallish no-till container.

I have these in spades on my shelf in addition to all the rock dusts:

Acadian Kelp Meal
Neem Cake and Karanja Cake
Crustacean Meal
Malted Barley
HorseTail fern dried and cut

This is my re-amend mix add this 1:1 with EWC and a splash or 3 of mycos.

I haven't added in a compost or accumulator tea since last spring.

For IPM 1x weekly without bugs:

foiler on Aloe gel, Horsetail fern tea, Kelp tea, Ful-Power, pro-tekt, pure coconut water and sometimes add in some willow shoot tea (promotes root and shoot growth) + spinosad for the critters.

Horsetail fern and willow shoots we wild craft. Even do some wildcrafting with EWC. Shit is everywhere! lol I like to add the wild crafted EWC to my vermi bins and its a nice addition at up-pot too. Get the local microbes going.

I haven't seen a fungus gnat in years inside. In our vermi bins WOOOAH yeah but not inside. I use fans blows any to the curb. They dont like dry soil and I btm water so my top 1 or 2" of soil is pretty dry. They'd have to dig down to get to the wet soil. They live in the very top layer of soil and it needs to be consistently wet which my pots are not.

Fans are usually enough if on the soil line. They suck at flying same with Thrips. Blow them away from the soil, they cannot reproduce. Problems solved. lol

 

[bobrown14]

I just checked out your grow journal, looks nice.
I would make a suggestion though, try not to use the H2O2 very much as it will kill all your microbes/mycorrhazae on contact also.

Since you have fairly small pots you might not be able to maintain a large population of predators like the beetles and Mites but one thing that works very well and doesn't murder your microbes is Gnatrol which is just BTI.

H2o2 - been a while since I've used that for anything in my gardens other than seed popping. I'll add a 10ml to 100ml of RO water then soak seeds. Gets rid of micro-organisms put there from humans. lol yuk. Lots of farmers with dirty hands. The way it should be just don't touch my fruits. lol.

1x a week with spinosad not much to worry about until there is, and that is usually mites fvcks when I slack on the IPM and skip a week at the beginning of the warm season outdoors. Warn season is coming soon. We get a lot of mites and PM outdoors. So its a constant thing to deal with.

 

[Nunyabiz]

H2o2 - been a while since I've used that for anything in my gardens other than seed popping. I'll add a 10ml to 100ml of RO water then soak seeds. Gets rid of micro-organisms put there from humans. lol yuk. Lots of farmers with dirty hands. The way it should be just don't touch my fruits. lol.

1x a week with spinosad not much to worry about until there is, and that is usually mites fvcks when I slack on the IPM and skip a week at the beginning of the warm season outdoors. Warn season is coming soon. We get a lot of mites and PM outdoors. So its a constant thing to deal with.

Ahhhhhh, I didn't read through the whole 149 pages, just a few.
You might look into Tweetmint for the bad mites and I think it might even work on PM.

The only critters I ever have to worry about are just fungus gnats and I got them completely under control now it appears for good.

I use aloe vera water for seed popping.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Craft Blend from BAS right? I have some.

I was using the Coots nutrient blend portion of the Coots mix BAS has cause I had some left over. Bought a bag of the Craft Blend. I've been adding it to my compost bin. I'm not a fan of CalPhos/K-mag/Azomite in a smallish no-till container.

I have these in spades on my shelf in addition to all the rock dusts:

Acadian Kelp Meal
Neem Cake and Karanja Cake
Crustacean Meal
Malted Barley
HorseTail fern dried and cut

This is my re-amend mix add this 1:1 with EWC and a splash or 3 of mycos.

I haven't added in a compost or accumulator tea since last spring.

For IPM 1x weekly without bugs:

foiler on Aloe gel, Horsetail fern tea, Kelp tea, Ful-Power, pro-tekt, pure coconut water and sometimes add in some willow shoot tea (promotes root and shoot growth) + spinosad for the critters.

Horsetail fern and willow shoots we wild craft. Even do some wildcrafting with EWC. Shit is everywhere! lol I like to add the wild crafted EWC to my vermi bins and its a nice addition at up-pot too. Get the local microbes going.

I haven't seen a fungus gnat in years inside. In our vermi bins WOOOAH yeah but not inside. I use fans blows any to the curb. They dont like dry soil and I btm water so my top 1 or 2" of soil is pretty dry. They'd have to dig down to get to the wet soil. They live in the very top layer of soil and it needs to be consistently wet which my pots are not.

Fans are usually enough if on the soil line. They suck at flying same with Thrips. Blow them away from the soil, they cannot reproduce. Problems solved. lol

Yes Craftblend is the BAS amendment mix.
Works perfect for my containers which are 25 gallon fabric pots.

My soil has to stay pretty moist because its it own ecosystem.
The top 3" or so is pure fresh worm castings that's created everyday by the hundreds of worms in my pots.
They need moist soil, the mycorrhazae need moist soil, the Gro-Kashi needs moist soil to bloom the fungus that helps break down the soil to bioavailable nutrients.
And I have lots of cover crop growing in the pots and about 4" of fresh green manure (chopped up cover crop) as mulch and worm food.
Letting mine dry out would basically kill everything, wouldn't have "living" soil anymore.

 

[bobrown14]

I just checked out your grow journal, looks nice.

C'mon over. Lots of friends are there.

We all like weed!

That's a fer sure.

 

[Diatomacious]

It’s always advised to test your soil before using it. It takes away guessing out of equation.

Yes it helps a lot... water only is best bet, be careful what you add to the water, any nitrogen, phosphorous or potassium in any chemicals you add can throw off the whole mix.

 

[Diatomacious]

There's more than 1 product that has the label "Pro-Mix" from the same company.

You may be referring to the "potting soil" Pro-Mix??

All we see around my neck of the woods is:

Pro-Mix BX

Ingredients list:

Canadian sphagnum peat moss (75-85%)
Perlite
Dolomitic & calcitic limestone (pH adjuster)
Mycorrhizae - PTB297 Technology

They forgot to add to the ingredient list:
wetting agent.


The actual product (I was able to find it easily last time I looked) was hard to find but
here's a good read on it:

The wetting agent in promix hp ? - Ourfigs.com


THE BEST WETTING AGENT is = soap nuts. Organic and sustainable plus the plants and the roots and micro herd LOVE it. Wash your dishes, your clothes, your-self and your peat moss. It's a win.


Edit:
Been using the same soil over and over for several years in 1 cu.ft. containers. Soil test was done at initial mix.

I dont have to do anything with the soil but add water to grow top shelf nugs.

Yea the BX is what I usually get... it just has mycorrhizae which is the BX I think. I'm sure they use some sort of chemical wetting agent because the stuff sponges up water which is not normal for peat but back when I used it I was using the miracle grow stuff (basically what I call all chemical plant nutrient). I have since determined through experience that anything grown with chemical nutrient is toxic to the human body (and I believe animals too). Water only and you can't go wrong, I like to store a little rain water away.

 

[bobrown14]

Works perfect for my containers which are 25 gallon fabric pots.

My soil has to stay pretty moist because its it own ecosystem.

Thats what my vermi-compost bins are like. Super moist but not "wet" and there's a lot of gnats when the weather conditions are right. Your top layer is basically a mini vermi-compost bin. Eventually your container will be all worm castings + aeration with a compost layer.

At least that's the goal with no-till.

Worms for the win!

 

[Diatomacious]

Wow... got my soil report back and have to cut the fish bone from the mix. Soil mixes are very different from soilless mixes not just for pH but also for nutrient concentration optimums.

 

[Conradino23]

Can you post your analysis? What Ca:Mg ratio did you get? And what CEC?

 

[bobrown14]

D - why are you cutting the fish bone meal?? I would think its very similar to Crustacean meal that I use. I actually add fish bone meal to my compost bins. Then use that compost in my soil mix.

Conrad
Interesting you asked about the Ca:Mg ratio. I was always trying to reach about 6:1 or more but my current mix is only like >3:1 Not even sure why my Mg level is so high?? For Ca I use Oyster Shell flour/crustacean meal/Gypsum.
Maybe the rock dust I use has a lot of Mg in it??



That was probably 20 flower rounds ago too. I do add in some Ca from time to time with my amendments.

Soil PH @ 6.3 is good for me. Sweet spot or close enough.

This on is the current soil I'm in now mixed it in 2017:

 

[Diatomacious]

Can you post your analysis? What Ca:Mg ratio did you get? And what CEC?

I f'd up and got the wrong test... got the one for soil... should have gotten the one for soilless. Mehlich-3 extraction for soil, saturated media analysis for soilless. CEC for base mix (coco coir, perlite, vermiculite) was 7.0 while for my mix was 13.7 with all the stuff in it. I did not get a Ca:Mg ratio from this test... sorry. Getting a new test just sent today.

 

[Diatomacious]

D - why are you cutting the fish bone meal?? I would think its very similar to Crustacean meal that I use. I actually add fish bone meal to my compost bins. Then use that compost in my soil mix.

Soil PH @ 6.3 is good for me. Sweet spot or close enough.

I'm cutting the fish bone meal because optimum phosphorous concentration for a soilless mix is 6-10 ppm, I came in at 120 which was higher than what I was shooting for. Coco coir naturally has about 12 ppm phosphorous in so it is already loaded for bear.

Yea soil pH for a soilless mix should be 6.2-6.4 in my experience, 6.2 is probably about perfect. You are above optimum on both phosphorous and potassium though your report does not seem to indicate the exact ppm of each. That report is for soil mixes, like outdoor gardening. A soilless media test will also show nitrogen concentration and at least for me is only $1 more per test.

https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=anr_reports

page 3 on that pdf has a chart for nutrient concentrations for most plants. Soilless mixes are very different from soil mixes not just for pH but for nutrient concentration as well.

Edit: almost forgot my reasoning for checking these concentratons... if concentrations are optimal bud quality and taste will be optimal. In excess the plant will simply store the extra nutrient in it's leaves affecting taste (smoking over fertilized bud tastes and smells nasty and the buzz is diminished). Organic is much better in an over fertilized situation as the chemical causes muscle spasms and cramping when smoked, while organic just tastes nasty with extra cough. Optimal means optimal yield and quality so better buds and more of em at those concentrations.

 

[Conradino23]

PH is meaningless. A recent study has confirmed that cannabis is a broad range plant and does well between 5 and 7,5.

 

[Diatomacious]

PH is meaningless. A recent study has confirmed that cannabis is a broad range plant and does well between 5 and 7,5.

In my own experience this is true... however mine seem to do best at a ph of 6.2-6.4. If pH is having little effect on your crop you probably have an over fertilized situation, at least in my exp. When my soil gets down to the high 5's my plants begin to show acid burn. I clone at pH 6.0 and my soil I set at 6.2 and it does well for me in an organic grow but this is just for a soilless mix (rapid rooters are peat based which is soilless and coco coir is of course soilless). For a soil mix pH values would be different (something about all the minerals in the crushed rock affect the soil chemistry). Anywho, my 2 cent.

 

[Diatomacious]

Over fertilization is a problem because feeding a plant is like a chemical reaction. When one reactant is low the reaction will not go all the way to completion. Carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen make up something like 99% of plant matter and must also be factored into the reaction (fresh air and water provide these nutrient). When nutrient levels are too high they can interfere with a plants ability to uptake enough air and water, like when you pot up a healthy clone and it wilts (probably your soil nutrient concentrations).

 

[Diatomacious]

Remixed a new batch of soil and that's what I sent to the lab for testing. 2 samples so hopefully I can do a linear extrapolation to get me where I want to be if neither is correct. Tried potting a clone and still getting a little wilt so I'm wondering if those 1-0-0 NPK worm castings I'm using actually have a little phosphorous in them. Oh well, have to wait for the lab results to figure it all out. When will they come up with an NPK hand held meter similar to a pH meter? I would most definitely get one. Two weeks I will know lol.